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#113997 - 29/08/2002 21:38 IBM sucks
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3927
Loc: Somerville, MA
I got a Travelstar 40gb about a month ago to put in my wife's laptop. I haven't had time to deal. Today I exhausted the space on my empeg and was going to upgrade one of the 20gbs in it to a 40, and either buy her another 40, or give her the 20.

Of course, the 40gb just makes a horrible noise when it tries to spin up, then spins down and I get a pump error. I have another laptop drive laying around, stick it in and the builder image pumps and formats it. Both connectors on the IDE cable, it fails (I didn't expect it would succeed; The noise is so horrible I can't imagine it working).

I bought something new which needs to be returned. Annoying, but not shocking. What really pisses me off is IBM has no cross-ship option; I'm willing to let them hold against my credit card, I just want a d%^ drive!

So much hatred, so little time.

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#113998 - 30/08/2002 04:20 Re: IBM sucks [Re: Daria]
mardibloke
addict

Registered: 14/08/2000
Posts: 468
Loc: Penarth, UK
Sorry to hear you are having a bad day. I have been running with IBM drives for years now, and the empeg's certainly test the drives well - no problems so far.

Could you explain what a cross ship option is - I guess I am from the wrong side of the Atlantic.

_________________________
- --
Rod, UK

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#113999 - 30/08/2002 04:29 Re: IBM sucks [Re: mardibloke]
Laura
pooh-bah

Registered: 16/06/2000
Posts: 1682
Loc: Metamora, IN
I believe that the cross-ship option he is referring to is when the company ships you a replacement as you ship the defective to them. I know that Dell offers this and I've had them ship a replacement and then let me ship the defective after I have received it.

IBM drives are usually very good.
_________________________
Laura

MKI #017/90

whatever

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#114000 - 30/08/2002 07:14 Re: IBM sucks [Re: Daria]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
I will never buy another IBM drive again. With Maxtor and WD, end users can send back OEM drives. With IBM you can't. I had to auction this drive because IBM wouldn't take it back from me. Thanks IBM!

I buy Maxtor for IDE drives now and haven't looked back. They're just as fast, quieter, cheaper, and take returns. I am soured on WD due to many past drive failures, but their return process was very good.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#114001 - 30/08/2002 08:41 Re: IBM sucks [Re: robricc]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12021
Loc: Sterling, VA
I've had no really bad problems with WD, but that's just my experiences. I did have one drive go bad, but I think it was all my fault. The return process, as you mentioned, was excellent. They have all their drives' serial numbers on file and can tell when the warranty runs out, and all of this can be checked out by you. It was a very easy return process and when they shipped it back they packaged it extremely well.
_________________________
Matt

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#114002 - 30/08/2002 08:57 Re: IBM sucks [Re: robricc]
ricin
veteran

Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1494
Loc: US: Fairfield, CA
I've had 2 of those same drives die on me from excessive shock (being in a machine that I moved quite often - i.e. took it to work every day for over a year). I checked the IBM warranty page and, even though they were both OEM drives, they were still both under warranty. I sent them in and got two replacements that work great.

I have a 20gb Travelstar in this machine (my laptop) which I got second-hand from a friend for $20. It's working so far, but it's starting to develop bad sectors. He said it was banged around quite badly in the laptop it came from (it was dropped from about 4 feet while turned on). So, I'm about to RMA this one as well, as it is also still under warranty.
_________________________
Donato
MkII/080000565
MkIIa/010101253
ricin.us

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#114003 - 30/08/2002 09:12 Re: IBM sucks [Re: robricc]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
because IBM wouldn't take it back from me.
Rob, did you go through this RMA form or some other way like 800 number?

I have successfully RMAd 2 OEM (I thought OEM...bulk pack, anti-static bag-only) IBMs in the past year. One local PC shop did tell me, though, that they stopped using IBMs because of warranty problems with IBM "white box" drives -- and the biggest problem was telling which ones were eligible. Where did you get that one originally?
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#114004 - 30/08/2002 09:14 Re: IBM sucks [Re: Daria]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
IBM: Inferior But Marketable
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#114005 - 30/08/2002 09:17 Re: IBM sucks [Re: jimhogan]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
Yes, it was that website. I tried it a few times before just giving up and selling on ebay. I even researched returning it to Singapore (someone on usenet claimed you could send it back to the factory directly). Whatever. The buyer seemed happy to get the deal, so maybe he was lucky.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#114006 - 30/08/2002 09:20 Re: IBM sucks [Re: jimhogan]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
Here is what happens when I enter the numbers off the label on the eBay page.


Attachments
112246-ibm_oem_drive.gif (482 downloads)



Edited by robricc (30/08/2002 09:20)
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736

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#114007 - 30/08/2002 09:28 Re: IBM sucks [Re: robricc]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Here is what happens when I enter the numbers off the label on the eBay page.

Interesting. So, while I was thinking my drives are "OEM" (bulk pack), at least some of them aren't from the standpoint of passing this warranty/RMA page. I have about a dozen IBM drives. I think maybe I should collect all the S/Ns and punch them in -- see whether some of them are OEM OEM -- not RMA-able.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#114008 - 30/08/2002 09:28 Re: IBM sucks [Re: tonyc]
davec
old hand

Registered: 18/08/2000
Posts: 992
Loc: Georgetown, TX USA
IBM: Inferior But Marketable

When I worked there it meant I've Been Molested, but prior to the screwing of the employees by Lou it meant I've Been Moved...
I always thought it should be more like, I'll Be Manager because that seems to be the entire goal of IBM, make you a manager, much like Dilbert's Pointy Haired Boss ...
_________________________
Dave Clark Georgetown, Texas MK2A 42Gb - AnoFace - Smoke Lens - Dead Tuner - Sirius Radio on AUX

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#114009 - 30/08/2002 09:44 Re: IBM sucks [Re: robricc]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3927
Loc: Somerville, MA
I love Maxtor, I have .4tb of it spinning in my house. But, they don't do laptop drives. WD has screwed me in the past, maybe it's time to look at them again.

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#114010 - 30/08/2002 12:43 Re: IBM sucks [Re: Daria]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12021
Loc: Sterling, VA
All I can say is that the Special Edition 80GB drive I've got in my system at the moment is kicking ass.
_________________________
Matt

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#114011 - 30/08/2002 13:47 Re: IBM sucks [Re: Dignan]
davec
old hand

Registered: 18/08/2000
Posts: 992
Loc: Georgetown, TX USA
All I can say is that the Special Edition 80GB drive I've got in my system at the moment is kicking ass.

Yeah I have a 100Gb and a Special Ed. 120Gb (8MB buffer.) So far so good...
_________________________
Dave Clark Georgetown, Texas MK2A 42Gb - AnoFace - Smoke Lens - Dead Tuner - Sirius Radio on AUX

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#114012 - 30/08/2002 14:20 Re: IBM sucks [Re: davec]
ricin
veteran

Registered: 19/06/2000
Posts: 1494
Loc: US: Fairfield, CA
Same here. I've got some 120GB SE drives and I love 'em. I had lots of problems with WD in the past, but these drives have changed my mind (about the SE line anyway).
_________________________
Donato
MkII/080000565
MkIIa/010101253
ricin.us

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#114013 - 30/08/2002 15:07 Re: IBM sucks [Re: ricin]
BartDG
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2558
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
Yup, I agree. I have a WD 100mb SE. Great drive. VERY good performance.
_________________________
Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup

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#114014 - 31/08/2002 10:08 Re: IBM sucks [Re: robricc]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
I saw a rather interesting IBM drive last night. My friend brought his system over so we could have a mini LAN last night. He plugged his power in, and watched his power supply smoke. So we then searched around for a replacement, and nothing I had was powerful enough beyond my server. He had a first gen slot Athlon, aka the Power Sucker(tm)

So I pulled out my recently created spare machine that used to be my main gaming PC, and we decided to toss his drive in, along with my old WD 13gig. He took his out, and it was an IBM 13 gig, that really closly matched the WD. Even down to a yellow plastic piece covering a controller chip and cache on the PCB. The one difference was that one of the other chips on the PCB had moved slightly, but all the other components matched, as did the overall design of the spindle and such.

Did IBM get their drives from other companies initially?

_________________________
Tom

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#114015 - 31/08/2002 10:14 Re: IBM sucks [Re: drakino]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
I think it's the other way around from what I remember. IBM developed some of the GMR head technology and licensed it to other companies. I'll find you the press release.... Okay. very old press release on their website

- Trevor

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#114016 - 31/08/2002 11:00 Re: IBM sucks [Re: robricc]
jwickis
addict

Registered: 24/08/2000
Posts: 658
Loc: India
I am soured on WD due to many past drive failures, but their return process was very good.
Giving credit to 'practice makes perfect'. I too have had 2 IDE home PC drives go bad once they were installed were never moved & kept in ideal climate conditions. These failures seemed to coincide within a month of the passing of the warranty. I should note that the SMARTdrive did catch they were going bad but it was a little too late. I decided to see if I could take the drive apart and salvage the platters maybe install in another identical drive. The contact arm or head was making direct contact w/one of the platters w/the reading head laying to the side. The other platter/heads seemed fine.
The IBM drives I have have yet to fail me and the one Maxtor I have has passed all of them in performance believe it or not it's from a PC I bought in 1996.

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#114017 - 31/08/2002 11:13 Re: IBM sucks [Re: jwickis]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Did you actually get it to work after transplanting the platters? You could do this years ago when the platters had a fairly low bit density but these days the tolerance needed is way too high for somebody to do it at home.

SMART monitoring hasn't worked very well for me. It only started warning me once there was serious problems with the drive which were noticeable anyway.

- Trevor

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#114018 - 31/08/2002 12:17 Re: IBM sucks [Re: tman]
jwickis
addict

Registered: 24/08/2000
Posts: 658
Loc: India
Did you actually get it to work after transplanting the platters?
I haven't exactly tried it as yet, first I had to find the right sized T-? bit which the size of all the T bits I have was of course the size I didn't have. Now I have the right bit but don't feel like possibly trashing the new/used matching drive I got on Ebay to see if the data is any good. Maybe someday when the new/used drive starts to go I'll try the swap.
SMART monitoring hasn't worked very well for me. It only started warning me once there was serious problems with the drive which were noticeable anyway.
I suppose you could say it worked for me but only tells you if somethings wrong when you restart Windows in DOS which I guess since Windows has to be restarted often works well. The drives didn't exhibit any signs of their future demise.

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#114019 - 31/08/2002 12:29 Re: IBM sucks [Re: jwickis]
BartDG
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2558
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
I don't think you'll be successful in swapping those platters because if I recall correctly all harddisks are sealed in a dust-free environment. I don't think you can emulate such an environment in your own home.
This means that even if the tiniest bit of dust gets onto the platter and gets between the platter and the head it will "scratch" the platter and data will be lost.

It's like you said : I wouldn't risk thrashing your new/used drive to repair this one, especially since your chances of actually repairing it yourself are practically 0.
_________________________
Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup

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#114020 - 31/08/2002 12:38 Re: IBM sucks [Re: BartDG]
jwickis
addict

Registered: 24/08/2000
Posts: 658
Loc: India
Well ummm some people would say I do live in a vacuum so just maybe.

Those people are dead now, excuse me 'terminated with extreme prejudice'!


Edited by jwickis (31/08/2002 12:42)

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#114021 - 31/08/2002 12:40 Re: IBM sucks [Re: jwickis]
BartDG
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2558
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
Well ummm some people would say I do live in a vacuum so just maybe.

Ah, in that case I guess you'll have half a chance then!

Those people are dead now, excuse me 'terminated with extreme prejudice'!

Oh, so they bit the dust then? (sorry, couldn't resist!)


Edited by Archeon (31/08/2002 13:11)
_________________________
Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup

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#114022 - 31/08/2002 15:02 Re: IBM sucks [Re: BartDG]
V99
member

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 192
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
People have apparently opened their drives and gotten them back together still working.. but actually moving the platters adds a whole lot more risk/complexity.

What you need is a friend with a job in a clean room and some spare time at lunch

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#114023 - 31/08/2002 15:04 Re: IBM sucks [Re: V99]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Somebody on a mailing list I'm on has done exactly the same thing. He said that it started giving data errors after a few months but initially he didn't notice any visible problems.
I guess it's just due to luck that these things even work afterwards

- Trevor

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#114024 - 31/08/2002 15:09 Re: IBM sucks [Re: tman]
BartDG
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2558
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
It would be right that the errors don't show up immediately, but only after a while of use.
Imagine only one dust particle being trapped in the once opened harddisk. Surely that one little particle won't cause very much damage in the first ten seconds when you use your drive again. But it will grind on the platters every day, causing a little bit more damage and, given due time, data errors will show.
_________________________
Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup

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#114025 - 31/08/2002 19:53 Re: IBM sucks [Re: BartDG]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
Too put into perspective - about five years ago someone did an analysis of (then) current drive technology and came out with this analogy to help visualize a disk read:

Imagine the Empire State Building lying on its side one inch above ground, flying at the speed of sound, and counting every blade of grass as it goes. Without errors.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#114026 - 31/08/2002 19:58 Re: IBM sucks [Re: genixia]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Wasn't a speck of dust the size of a large boulder or something like that?
I've got a removable disk pack at home that has the unbelievable storage capacity of 5MB

- Trevor

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