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#11491 - 19/07/2000 03:12 *very* strange RF interference ?!
Nils
member

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 197
Loc: Germany
Hi there !
It is not really a *bug* but this forum is my best guess to get help ...

-> Whenever my Mk2 is connected to the car sled ( no matter if it is in standby or playing music ), my radio controlled car key isn't working !!!!!!!
( I know this sounds mad, but i can prove & repeat it as often as i want )
At first i thought, the battarries of my car key transmitter is low, and i exchanged it, but it turned out that having the empeg in the sled is *the* main and only factor ...

Is it transmitting a very high level electronic noise ???

Do you have any idea ??

The car: Audi 80 convertible '97, standard AUDI radio controlled door (un)lock mechanism ...

Nils, ex #123, now #60000005




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#11492 - 19/07/2000 03:25 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Nils]
Henno
addict

Registered: 15/07/1999
Posts: 568
Loc: Meije, Netherlands
Whenever my Mk2 is connected to the car sled, my radio controlled car key isn't working

This was reported earlier here. I believe the thread developed from someone having the same with a BMW.
German car / British electronics ??

Henno
mk2 nr 6
_________________________
Henno mk2 [orange]6 [/orange]nr 6

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#11493 - 19/07/2000 03:48 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Henno]
Nils
member

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 197
Loc: Germany
Shame on me, you are right, Geoff was experiencing the same with his BMW ...
Strangely enough, i haven't had this problem with my Mk1, beeing installed in exactly the same location & manner ...

So what to do ???


Nils




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#11494 - 19/07/2000 04:20 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Henno]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5316
Loc: Cambridge UK
The car player doesn't affect any of the Mercedes/BMW's/Audis/VW's that we've seen (I believe that CCA have installed empegs into all of those cars).

The player is FCC and CE approved, which involved a very thorough EMC test procedure. Of course, the player fully passed these tests. It seems unlikely that it's a radiation issue, but I'm not sure what else could cause it. Do you know where the door lock receiver is located in your vehicle?

Rob



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#11495 - 19/07/2000 04:24 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Nils]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5316
Loc: Cambridge UK
One more thing.. does this happen when the player is powered down, or only when it's switched on or in standby? Note that it switches itself off completely 60 seconds after losing accessory sense, so try switching off your ignition, waiting a minute and then using your radio key. If it still doesn't work it can't be anything to do with radiation, as the player isn't powered up.

Rob



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#11496 - 19/07/2000 05:14 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: rob]
Nils
member

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 197
Loc: Germany
Hi rob !
Im just downloading 12a to try this out, i let you know ...

Nils



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#11497 - 19/07/2000 05:38 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Nils]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3450
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Though they both passed CE & FCC testing, the mk2 is electrically quieter than the mk1 - so it should be *better*, not worse!

You could try taking one of the clip-on ferrites off the home PSU power lead and running the yellow, orange and blue (power, basically) wires through the ferrite (if you can get one turn through the ferrite, this would be good). This might help if the RF receiver is very susceptible to induced noise, though we passed CE and FCC on induced noise too...

Hugo



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#11498 - 19/07/2000 06:04 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Nils]
Geoff
enthusiast

Registered: 21/08/1999
Posts: 381
Loc: Northern Ireland
I'm sort of torn here... I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this anymore, but at the same time I wouldn't wish it on anyone else, if you know what I mean

I was hoping (I am still hoping) it will be cured when I get my Mk2 installed, but I am going to try to wait until the tuner module is available to minimise any installation hassles (I don't think I could live without a radio, even if I do only listen to it for a small percentage of my time in the car)

In my BMW, the alarm/door remote isn't completely disabled, but it will only operate from a couple of feet away from the car, and even then it may take a few (extended) presses of the button to activate.

I have a Haynes manual for the car, but I have lent it to someone so can't look it up right now to see where the alarm module is located. For the time being, if I have to leave the car temporarily, I just pop the empeg out of the sled by about 1/4" or so, just to remove the power, and then it works ok... so in my case, it only occurs when there is power to the Mk1.

Geoff
---- -------
Got one of the first Mark 2 empegs...
_________________________
Geoff
---- -------
Mk1 Blue - was 4GB, now 16GB
Mk2 Red - was 12GB, now 60GB

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#11499 - 19/07/2000 10:49 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Geoff]
jfranke
member

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 124
VW Golf IV + MK1 = No Problems
VW Golf III + MK2 = No Problems


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#11500 - 19/07/2000 13:02 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: rob]
Nils
member

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 197
Loc: Germany
I tried it out, and ->
When the unit is powered off -> RF Remote works, if it is in standby, or working, RF Remote doesnt work ...

I will try out to use the ferrite thingies tomorrow ...

Nils




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#11501 - 19/07/2000 13:12 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: jfranke]
mac
addict

Registered: 20/05/1999
Posts: 411
Loc: Cambridge, UK
VW Golf IV + MK1 = No Problems
VW Golf III + MK2 = No Problems


VW Golf n + MKm <==> n + m = 5 ?

--
Mike Crowe
I may not be speaking on behalf of empeg above :-)
_________________________
--
Mike Crowe

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#11502 - 19/07/2000 13:35 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: mac]
Nils
member

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 197
Loc: Germany
>VW Golf n + MKm <==> n + m = 5 ?

Haha -> * Madness* :-)

nice one !

Nils


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#11503 - 20/07/2000 01:21 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Nils]
jfranke
member

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 124
VW Golf n + MKm <==> n + m = 5 = wrong...
VW Golf n + MKm <==> n + m = 34 = right!
VW Golf IV + MK1 + VW Golf III + MK2 = no money in my pocket = entirely true :-(



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#11504 - 20/07/2000 11:56 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: jfranke]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5324
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
VW Golf n + MKm <==> n + m = 5 = wrong...
VW Golf n + MKm <==> n + m = 34 = right!
VW Golf IV + MK1 + VW Golf III + MK2 = no money in my pocket = entirely true :-(


Hmmm... never realized until now that you could add cars plus stereos and get a proper result. Of course, addition is a commutative function, so I suppose it's all right.

Just don't divide it by zero!

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#11505 - 21/07/2000 01:22 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Nils]
blairc
new poster

Registered: 17/03/2000
Posts: 2
I may be totally off course here but, does your car alarm have current sensing i.e. will it sound if the interior light etc comes on. If so it might be sensing the current the empeg is drawing and not allowing you to arm it. It may not be RF interference it might just be your alarm refusing to arm while something isn the car is powered.

Blair


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#11506 - 21/07/2000 02:54 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: blairc]
Nils
member

Registered: 09/06/1999
Posts: 197
Loc: Germany
Hi !
It is no alarm system, just the RF door lock !

By now i tried the trick with those ferrite thingies, but it still doesn't work :-(

Nils


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#11507 - 27/07/2000 01:22 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Nils]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
The alarm theory mat still hold true. My new car also came with keyless entry, and reading furthur into the manual revealed it to be a security system as well. One of the things that will set mine off is locking the car with the remote, then opening any door or trunk with the key. Try this with yours. Lock the car with the remote, then unlock it with just the key. Mine begins to sound a few horn chirps before going full blast to warn you that you forgot to use the remote.

_________________________
Tom

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#11508 - 28/02/2001 00:15 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: Nils]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Well, it appears my car suffers the same problem described above. If the Mark II is powered in any way (Playing or standby), my factory keyless entry/alarm system will not work. I tried to arm mine while holding the remote inside the car, and also over various parts outside. Until the unit is powered down completly, no function on the remote will work.

I am going to try to find the exact position of the reciever in the car, and see how close it is to the empeg. For now, my workaround is to have the empeg completly power off only a few seconds after going into standby.

Oh, I suppose the car make and model would help. It's a 2000 Saturn SL2.

_________________________
Tom

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#11509 - 28/02/2001 10:47 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: drakino]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31064
Loc: Seattle, WA
Well, it appears my car suffers the same problem described above.

I thought we got to the bottom of this a long time ago. And it was voltage-related rather than RF-related. The solution was to have the Empeg draw its power straight from the battery rather than going through the factory wiring. Am I right? Or is my memory failing me?

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#11510 - 28/02/2001 13:20 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: tfabris]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
What was posted here describes my situation more then the voltage issue setting off someones alarm. By what I understand, there was 2 problems.

1. When the empeg is active or in standby, it becomes difficult or impossible to lock the doors with the remote.

2. When the empeg is docked, and is off, the occasional wakeup causes a voltage spike to set alarms off.

My car has the keyless entry and a basic alarm system. My problem is number 1, and I never saw a specific fix to it. I'm not sure if it's actual RF inteference or something else, it just seemed the right thread to tack my problem on.

_________________________
Tom

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#11511 - 28/02/2001 13:28 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: drakino]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31064
Loc: Seattle, WA
Hmm. Maybe I was getting the two problems mixed up. They say the first two things to go are the memory and... I can't remember the other one.

So we never got to the bottom of the keyless entry stuff? For what it's worth, my Honda's keyless entry doesn't seem to be affected by it.

Wait a minute.

Now that I think about it, in the rare instances that I leave the empeg in the car (when I'm coming back so quickly that the sleep timeout doesn't even expire), there is a reduction in range. I have to be closer to the car than if I hadn't left the empeg in there. Not by much, though.

In fact, I had assumed it was just a low battery in my remote, so I replaced it. The new battery helped increase the range again. Have you tried replacing the battery in the remote?

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#11512 - 28/02/2001 13:56 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: tfabris]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
In fact, I had assumed it was just a low battery in my remote, so I replaced it. The new battery helped increase the range again. Have you tried replacing the battery in the remote?

That was my first thought when I couldn't lock it. I went in my house, grabbed my 2ed remote, and the lock at the point worked because the empeg had gone to sleep. But later that night, holding the new remote over the hood didn't do anything until I opened the door and pulled the empeg. (I pulled it since at the time, the timeout was set to a few mins)

Edited by Drakino on 28/02/01 10:18 PM.

_________________________
Tom

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#11513 - 28/02/2001 14:11 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: drakino]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3824
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
AH HA!! Maybe THAT's why my keyless entry is so damn finicky on my new Civic.... I ruled out batteries and the like... hmm..i'm going to have to do some tests tomorrow when i get some system work done...


|| loren.cox || 080000446 ||
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#11514 - 28/02/2001 17:59 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: drakino]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5324
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
2. When the empeg is docked, and is off, the occasional wakeup causes a voltage spike to set alarms off.

That problem was mine, and it turned out to be completely unrelated to the empeg. The problem is it was a really cheap alarm and we think it was susceptible to temperature changes. All the electronics and the alarm siren were integrated and mounted under-hood. When the engine compartment cooled sufficiently the alarm went off.

The dealer installed a better (and far more costly) alarm at no charge to me, and I have no problems since.

I'll have to experiment and see if my empeg affects how easily my alarm/locks work. Fascinating... Of course, my empeg does say "Tested to comply with FCC standards for home or office use" :-)

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#11515 - 28/02/2001 19:28 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: loren]
MRHJr
journeyman

Registered: 04/09/1999
Posts: 74
Loc: CA
I have expeienced the same problem, and have pinned it to the empeg.
It got to be a pain,so much so, I changed the timer to 10 seconds.

I have an old Ungo Box alarm with the door lock driver add on.

Mk2 #105 12g blue
Car install complete...........Boat forthcoming
_________________________
Mk2 #105 60g

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#11516 - 06/03/2001 07:54 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: MRHJr]
carrera84
stranger

Registered: 12/09/2000
Posts: 46
Loc: NC, USA
I'm seeing a lot of new posts on this thread, but I've not seen anyone test blairc's 21/07/00 theory that the the alarm or keyless-locks may be sensing the empeg's current draw. I have no idea why they should do that, except maybe it has something to do with a circuit that disables the ignition when the car is locked up. If any of the tests below cause the alarm or lock to fail, then try connecting the constant voltage line directly to the the battery.

1) Does the system work if the interior lights are left on?
2) If so, does the system still work with a dummy load* plugged into the sled?
3) If so, the systems ARE interacting. More tests needed...

* A dummy load could be created by hooking up a 48-ohm, 3-watt resistor (or three 144-ohm, 1-watt resistors in parallel) to a spare blind mate connector. Maybe empeg could provide such a device to an owner with this problem hoping to exonerate their players.


-jim <MkII:080000260 18G blue>
_________________________
-jim [blue]080000260[/blue] w/18G in a [green]Carrera[/green]

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#11517 - 01/05/2001 16:47 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: drakino]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Just wanted to dig this thread back up as it's still a problem in my car. I haven't had enough time to look into it personally (since me poking at the car tends to take a big chunk of time). Has anyone else experiencing the loss of remote locking with the empeg found anything new?

(It's still an issue for me, as my empeg is rarley pulled from the car.)

_________________________
Tom

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#11518 - 02/05/2001 01:18 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: drakino]
thinfourth2
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
i will give it a try as i have never actually left my empeg in my bmw yet.

_________________________
P.Allison fixer of big engines Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord Aberdeen Scotland

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#11519 - 03/05/2001 14:00 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: drakino]
teemcbee
addict

Registered: 04/02/2000
Posts: 687
I haven't recognized this on my peugeot. At least not in combination with the empeg.
But I had this happen for 2 times (before I had the empeg) that my remote keylock didn't react to my unlock/lock from the remote.

Maybe stupid but maybe worth a try.. have you tried pulling out the empeg just a little bit of the docking sled (so that the connector isn't connected anymore).

Can you lock/unlock you car with the remote while sitting in the car? You could try if it really has something to do with the empeg quite easy this way...

If you find out that it has something to do with the empeg maybe some cabling is wrong.

VW's and Audi's make curious things when you combine some switches (e.g. when you switch off ignition, then switch on the heater from the back-window, then switch on the wiper and then switch on ignition again the back-window heater will be off again. after switching the ignition off and back on it will be on again... it was something like this.. i don't really know exactly how you got this effect in some Golfs...
And as I remember there was something about the air-condition, too...)


TeeMcBee
Got my Mk2! # 080000143
_________________________
TeeMcBee
[orange]Mk2, # 080000143, 40+30 GB, Tuner, Peugeot stalk hookup</font color=orange>

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#11520 - 03/05/2001 16:37 Re: *very* strange RF interference ?! [Re: teemcbee]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Maybe stupid but maybe worth a try.. have you tried pulling out the empeg just a little bit of the docking sled (so that the connector isn't connected anymore).

But later that night, holding the new remote over the hood didn't do anything until I opened the door and pulled the empeg.

Can you lock/unlock you car with the remote while sitting in the car? You could try if it really has something to do with the empeg quite easy this way...


I did that once. I was specificially showing someone how the empeg was preventing the doors to lock, and it locked. I had to pull the empeg out to unlock and disarm the security system. That was the only time out of probably 200 presses of the lock button that it locked with the empeg either playing or in standby.

If you find out that it has something to do with the empeg maybe some cabling is wrong.

I really have no clue what to check on this. I'll have to probably pay an installer sometime to check it out again.

_________________________
Tom

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