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#124183 - 01/11/2002 22:01 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: wfaulk]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
HeHe, now I know what a Zamboni is....

"Zamboni ice resurfacers were featured exclusively on the ice..."

Guess they don't work too well on grass or concrete...
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#124184 - 01/11/2002 22:27 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: ashmoore]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2081
Loc: New Orleans, LA
Hehe, Something else odd; Living in the big easy, whenever I travel anywhere else, people a;ways ask if I'm from Brooklyn. I have no idea why cajun sounds like New York, but It happens way too often to be coincidence.

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#124185 - 02/11/2002 03:50 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: peter]
GarySh
new poster

Registered: 29/12/2001
Posts: 6
Loc: CA, USA
In reply to:

And I've often heard it said that "traffic circle" is the US English for "roundabout", but it seems that the ratio of users is only about 2:1 (although in the region of the US where a roundabout is most likely to be found, they seem to call it a "rotary").




Well I'm the rarity of an Englishman living in Los Angeles in a community that has roundabouts at almost every junction. They seem to call them "turning circles" here. And while we're on the subject... (a) they have stop signs at all four entrances to the roundabouts (thus totally defeating the purpose of having them to keep the traffic flowing), but this is probably because of: (b) none of the residents actually understand how to use them, so if I enter a roundabout, and someone else is already in it, driving round, they will quite often just slam on the brakes and stop, confused. Argh!

Anyway, I've succumbed to some of the Americanisms, like Zee (from having to say Zee 80 processor in the old days and Zee-Buffer a lot) and also say "tomayto", otherwise I'd be trying explain my sandwich order at Subway all day long.

Anybody really interested in the development of US English vs. UK English would probably enjoy the books "Troublesome Words" and "Made In America" by Bill Bryson. Very funny and interesting, written by an American journalist who lived in the UK for 20 years.

Time to catch some zees...

- Gary

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#124186 - 02/11/2002 10:37 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: lectric]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Those two accents sound absolutely nothing alike. I can only imagine that people are just too stupid to differentiate between two fairly thick American accents. At the same time, I'm amazed that the same people can get as specific as a Brooklyn accent. You should just start telling them ``No. I'm from Red Hook.''
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#124187 - 02/11/2002 11:38 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: wfaulk]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2081
Loc: New Orleans, LA
See? That's what I thought. I mean, some of our words sound vaguely similar, but there are MAJOR differences.

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#124188 - 02/11/2002 12:49 Re: Zee vs Zed [Re: BleachLPB]
mail2mm
journeyman

Registered: 04/02/2002
Posts: 60
Loc: Wyoming and New Zealand
In 1985-86 I was in New Zealand, having arrived there, along with hundreds of others, aboard a sailboat. I ended up teaching a course in how to get your U.S. Amateur Radio license to a multi-national class of fellow cruisers.

During one class we were reviewing the phonetic alphabet, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, ......Zulu. I commented that I often heard the word Zed substituted for Zulu or for the letter Z (zee). I said I did not know why people did that but it was relatively common. Up shot a hand. An old British fellow, old enough to have been a fighter command pilot in the Battle of Britain, was ready to make the world a bigger place for this young, provincial American. Ed said, "The reason they use Zed is because Zed is the last letter of the alphabet."

Michael

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#124189 - 02/11/2002 13:53 Re: Zee vs Zed [Re: mail2mm]
ashmoore
addict

Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
How about this document from a good source.
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq101-1.htm
Notice that Z=Zed was the standard prior to WW2 when they used the "Able-Baker" alphabet.
I believe the current one is called either the NATO or Bravo-Zulu.
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#124190 - 02/11/2002 19:47 Re: Zee vs Zed [Re: ashmoore]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
"Zed's dead, baby... Zed's dead."

SICNR.
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my empeg stuff

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#124191 - 02/11/2002 23:40 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: ninti]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 11957
Loc: Sterling, VA
But I'll bet you make a xerox, use a kleenex, and throw a frisbee around.

Yes, I'm guilty of those (except xerox). Then again, none of those are sodas, are they? I was talking about sodas at the time. To me, it's quite different from the Band-Aid/adhesive strips thing. I hear a minority of people commit brand name association with regards to sodas. At least, it's a bit different.

For example, I'm a huge Coke fan, and a large anti-Pepsi guy (except for Dr Pepper, which shouldn't be owned by them). I always ask for a Coke in a restaurant because well, I want a Coke. It shocked me to hear that many Pepsi drinkers don't ask for a Pepsi. Enough, in fact, to have Bernie Mac do a commercial on the subject. Very strange to me.
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#124192 - 02/11/2002 23:44 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: Dignan]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3923
Loc: Somerville, MA
I always ask for a Coke in a restaurant because well, I want a Coke.

"This Coke tastes suspiciously like Pepsi."
or
"You need to change your syrup. No, this is the same as the last one, it's still not Coke. Well, if you knew it wasn't, you should have told me."

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#124193 - 03/11/2002 00:04 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: Dignan]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2295
Loc: Berkeley, California
Well, I agree with you, I ask for a Coke and want a beverage made by the coca cola company called "Classic Coke". What amazes me is people who ask for a "sprite coke" or "dr. pepper coke" and the like. It's using coke a word for soda(or pop, if you're canadian)(which, i might add is the only exuse for using "pop" in my mind) that goes against everything I beleive in.

Matthew

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#124194 - 03/11/2002 09:15 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: Daria]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31021
Loc: Seattle, WA
You need to change your syrup. No, this is the same as the last one, it's still not Coke. Well, if you knew it wasn't, you should have told me.

You're the guy who makes it hard for the rest of us who don't care. People like you are the reason we get asked "is Pepsi OK?"

Most of us just want a cola-flavored soft drink and it doesn't matter which brand. I hate ordering a Coke and being asked "is Pepsi OK?", when in fact I prefer Pepsi but I know "coke" has evolved into the generic term for cola beverage so that's what I say.

And YES, I have tried just ordering a "COLA" and they still say "Is Pepsi OK?" AAARGH!

Here's my problem with it:

Restaurants carry only one or the other, not both. Sometimes neither, they have a generic or a third-party cola brand. Depends on who the parent company made their deal with. So, even if I did care which brand I got, I wouldn't be able to choose, no matter how carefully I specified the brand or how many times I sent the drink back.

So we should all just accept that "coke" has evolved into a generic term, and stop correcting the brand when people order. Those FEW people who really do care about the brand should simply ASK THE WAITRESS which brand the restaurant serves before ordering if they're really that picky. And not get snooty when the restaurant serves the only brand they CAN serve.

I mean, if I go into a restaurant and order a hamburger, I shouldn't get upset if there's onions on it unless I SPECIFIED CLEARLY that I didn't want onions. Same with soft drinks. If I didn't specify clearly "no Pepsi", then I shouldn't get upset if I get Pepsi.
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Tony Fabris

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#124195 - 03/11/2002 09:28 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: tfabris]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3923
Loc: Somerville, MA
You're the guy who makes it hard for the rest of us who don't care. People like you are the reason we get asked "is Pepsi OK?"

That's me. Which is good, because I'd rather have crab juice.

Restaurants carry only one or the other, not both.
I know of a place which threw me. They had both. The trick is, their fountain is Pepsi, if you get Coke it's in a can. The cans of course have corn syrup. Oh well.

If I didn't specify clearly "no Pepsi", then I shouldn't get upset if I get Pepsi.

Coke isn't Pepsi. 1 isn't 0. Specifying Coke carries an implicit "not Pepsi" as it is impossible to bring me what I asked for and still have it be Pepsi.

You're wrong. I'd stay and argue but I need to go on a trip now

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#124196 - 03/11/2002 09:40 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: Daria]
BleachLPB
enthusiast

Registered: 01/11/2001
Posts: 354
Loc: Maryland
Coke isn't Pepsi. 1 isn't 0. Specifying Coke carries an implicit "not Pepsi" as it is impossible to bring me what I asked for and still have it be Pepsi.

Wow, I was never aware that this was such a widespread problem. I'm thankful I don't have to worry about this when ordering a glass of water.
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#124197 - 03/11/2002 09:46 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: Daria]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31021
Loc: Seattle, WA
Specifying Coke carries an implicit "not Pepsi"

My point is that it doesn't. The name "Coke" has evolved into a generic term. Just like "Kleenex". Your preference for the specific brand, although understandable, doesn't change this fact.

I'm sure that the companies which own those trademarks are very proud of that.

If you're at a friend's house and you've got a runny nose and say, "Can I have a kleenex please", I'm sure you would be surprised to have them respond with, "Sorry, I only have a generic brand of facial tissue. Is that OK?"
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Tony Fabris

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#124198 - 03/11/2002 09:57 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: Dignan]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2081
Loc: New Orleans, LA
Dr Pepper isn't owned by Pepsi. It is owned by Dr Pepper. Perhaps Pepsi does the bottling of DP(since they don't bottle their own). Around here, DP is bottle by Coca Cola.

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#124199 - 03/11/2002 10:07 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: lectric]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2081
Loc: New Orleans, LA
Hmmm.... Actually, Cadbury Schweppes now owns it:

http://www.drpepper.com/dp/html/index.html

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#124200 - 03/11/2002 10:29 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: tfabris]
ninti
old hand

Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 868
Loc: Los Angeles
> My point is that it doesn't. The name "Coke" has evolved into a generic term.

I'm with you Tony, and I think we are back to the original point of this topic; Coke being a generic term for all Cola (or Soda or whatever), only in certain parts of the country. In the South and the West it is common, but in the North and East it is much less common to use it that way. The problem is that nowhere is the usage 100% homogenized, so we get coke people bumping into pop or soda people.

I propose we strictly segregate everyone by state and we won't have these problems anymore.
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#124201 - 03/11/2002 10:30 Re: Zee vs Zed [Re: ashmoore]
mail2mm
journeyman

Registered: 04/02/2002
Posts: 60
Loc: Wyoming and New Zealand
Thanks for the Navy history site. A great find.

Michael

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#124202 - 03/11/2002 12:00 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: tfabris]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4143
Loc: Cambridge, England
The name "Coke" has evolved into a generic term.

It's pretty odd that they were able to trademark "Coca-cola" in the first place, as coca and cola are the two active ingredients. If I'd invented vichyssoise soup, I'd have been able to trademark "vichyssoise" but I bet no-one would have given me a trademark on "Leek-potato". Presumably they were later (1930) allowed to trademark "Coke" on the basis that it no longer contained any cocaine, but not "cola" because it's still a descriptive term: the stuff may well still contain cola.

FWIW, "coke" is fairly well-entrenched in the UK as a generic name for cola, but I haven't heard it used to mean soft drinks or pop in general. I've only once been asked "Is Pepsi OK?", but that may be because I mostly drink beer

Peter

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#124203 - 03/11/2002 12:55 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: tfabris]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 11957
Loc: Sterling, VA
Specifying Coke carries an implicit "not Pepsi"

My point is that it doesn't.

...You're the guy who makes it hard for the rest of us who don't care. People like you are the reason we get asked "is Pepsi OK?"


I disagree completely, Tony. I mean, listen to yourself. "People like you"? Don't blame other people for what they order. I said in my post that I couldn't believe that people who want a Pepsi don't order a freakin' Pepsi.

I insist that to me and all the people I know, Coke is not the generic term you consider it is. You live on the opposite side of the US, so maybe it is in your area, but I say Coke when I want a Coke. I say Sprite when I want a Sprite, and I say "do you have Dr Pepper?" when I'm not sure if they carry it.

By the way, I was under the impression that wait-staff was required to ask "Is Pepsi okay?" because either Coke or Pepsi was mad that people would ask for the other product and mitake it for their own.

So basically what I'm saying is, ask for a freakin' Pepsi.


ps-about what I said about Dr Pepper. My point was that in my area, Dr Pepper is distributed almost entirely by Pepsi. That's why I grouped it in with Pepsi products.
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#124204 - 03/11/2002 17:21 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: tfabris]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3923
Loc: Somerville, MA
My point is that it doesn't. The name "Coke" has evolved into a generic term.

Not in Pittsburgh. Maybe if I lived elsewhere. When I travel, I ask "what soft drinks do you have" if their menu doesn't say. When I'm home, the generic term is "pop" and if I ask for Coke and get Pepsi they're wrong, just like you

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#124205 - 03/11/2002 18:45 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: Daria]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just for the record, if you asked for a 'pop' over here (southern louisiana), people would look at you funny. And around here 'coke' can refer to all types of sodas, or just colas, or specificallly Coca-Cola, or a white powder that you snort to get high. On the other hand, 'pepsi' only refers specifically to the brand Pepsi.

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#124206 - 03/11/2002 19:03 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: ]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3923
Loc: Somerville, MA
I ordered carefully when in New Orleans at this time last year

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#124207 - 03/11/2002 19:28 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: Daria]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3923
Loc: Somerville, MA
It worked in Philly just now. "Coke" "Is Pepsi ok?" "What else do you have?"

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#124208 - 03/11/2002 22:09 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: Dignan]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31021
Loc: Seattle, WA
Don't blame other people for what they order.

I don't. I blame them for complaining when they use a generic term for cola, and receive a generic cola in return.

I will concede that this is probably regional. In my region, coke is generic for cola-flavored beverage. In your region it's not. OK, that's cool.
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Tony Fabris

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#124209 - 03/11/2002 22:20 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: ]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2081
Loc: New Orleans, LA
Heh, I went into a bar on Bourbon St a couple of years ago, walked up to the bar and said "Coke please". The bartender replied, "liquid or powdered?"

I'm sure she was kidding, I mean, I THINK I'm sure.

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#124210 - 04/11/2002 01:48 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: peter]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5560
Loc: London, UK
In the UK if you ask for Coke and they have something else they have to confirm that that's what you want.

Frankly, that's the right answer -- I can't stand any other kind of cola.
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#124211 - 04/11/2002 03:55 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: Roger]
frog51
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/08/2000
Posts: 2089
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Agreed - if I ask for a coke I want Coca Cola, if I ask for a Pepsi I want Pepsi. I am prepared to accept the other, usually, as long as I am asked so I am aware I will get a different drink - like if I want a Stella but they only have Cider, I'll probably be fine with that but want to be asked first!

And in doubt, always go for the bottled version - unless your vendor lets you up the concentrate level to teeth crinding amounts. That's always fun.

Anyway - this survey; quite amusing, but I'd love to see a UK version. Wonder how many folk use 'peedie' and 'stoor' and 'clartie'?
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MkIIa, blue lit buttons, memory upgrade, 1Tb in Subaru Forester STi
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#124212 - 04/11/2002 07:57 Re: Dialects of US English [Re: tfabris]
ashmoore
addict

Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
Of course that is the whole point of the original post, regional variations of common words.
The variation changes this impliction of what you are ordering. In the regions where a cola is call soda or pop, then asking for a Coke really does imply "made by Coca Cola".
But in your area, where coke means almost anything fizzy, then you would be dumb to expect a Coca Cola.

I have a question though.
In the regions where coke means "fizzy drink", how do you specify a flavor?

Is this anything like the fact that eskimos have 40 words for snow? You can imagine, what do you mean snow?
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