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#145273 - 23/02/2003 15:16 cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost half?
image
old hand

Registered: 28/04/2002
Posts: 770
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
a relevation just cale to me. i haven't tried to search if this was mentioned before, but for the ~year that i've been frequenting this board, it hasn't been mentioned.

if we use both the LAN port AND the USB port, similar to a dual WAN load balancing router, we can effectively upload tunes 1.75x faster (guesstimate). each acts as an independent channel. one track on eth, one on usb, keep it load balanced, and at the end, rebuild the database. to reduce back-and-forth hdd head movement, reserve each hdd for a seperate channel on dual drive systems.

what it would take is a rewrite of (j)emplode and probably the player software to accept more than one connection to use both at once, and i'm not sure if there would be any USB limitations... but if there is, the usb-ethernet emulation project would take care of it, right?

comments, ideas, or attempts to blow this pipe dream away welcome =)

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#145274 - 23/02/2003 15:20 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost half? [Re: image]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
I believe this has been discussed before, and the answer was that you're not going to get much speed benefit from doing something like that, because limitations in the player's hardware architecture make it so that you'd start to hit speed bottlenecks in getting the data to/from the IDE drives. Anyone have a link to that old thread on this topic?
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Tony Fabris

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#145275 - 23/02/2003 15:36 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost half? [Re: tfabris]
image
old hand

Registered: 28/04/2002
Posts: 770
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
i remember that a USB2 conversion discussion where altman says that you cant saturate the bus... but usb2 will make it go faster than ethernet. but it leads me to believe that the bus can handle at least 2x the speed its going right now.

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#145276 - 23/02/2003 16:16 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: image]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4172
Loc: Cambridge, England
As Tony says, this has come up before at least once. The answer is almost certainly that neither Ethernet, nor USB, nor IDE in an Empeg has DMA hardware, and that the current best-case transfer of about 700Kbytes/sec is thus CPU-bound from all that PIO. However, I don't remember writing anything in the car-player that disables USB when Ethernet is active, or vice versa, so the Jemplode folks could possibly try it out without any player changes if they really, really wanted to. There could be other reasons it won't work, though.

Peter

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#145277 - 23/02/2003 17:57 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: peter]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3457
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
USB generates an interrupt every 64 bytes (ie, one packet). USB could *probably* be bumped up to getting almost 1Mbyte/sec with a different protocol and a FIQ interrupt handler - but at the moment, USB is speed limited by the number of interrupts that have to be processed, and the interrupt load when disk transfers are going on.

Maybe I need to talk to Patrick about a USB2 mainboard swap for the empeg... we could do a new board with the latest DSP, an Xscale, 100mbit ethernet and USB2

Hugo

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#145278 - 23/02/2003 18:12 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: altman]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Maybe I need to talk to Patrick about a USB2 mainboard swap for the empeg... we could do a new board with the latest DSP, an Xscale, 100mbit ethernet and USB2

Screw it, why don't you guys just release empeg Mk3 kits at that point!
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#145279 - 23/02/2003 19:23 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: altman]
number6
old hand

Registered: 30/04/2001
Posts: 745
Loc: In The Village or sometimes: A...
In reply to:


Maybe I need to talk to Patrick about a USB2 mainboard swap for the empeg... we could do a new board with the latest DSP, an Xscale, 100mbit ethernet and USB2




Hmm,
That almost smells/sounds like a repackaging of the Pearl mainboard given all those features....


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#145280 - 23/02/2003 19:40 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: altman]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
In reply to:

Maybe I need to talk to Patrick about a USB2 mainboard swap for the empeg... we could do a new board with the latest DSP, an Xscale, 100mbit ethernet and USB2




... while your at it why don't ya throw in a color lcd and built in gps?
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#145281 - 23/02/2003 20:31 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: altman]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
Maybe I need to talk to Patrick about a USB2 mainboard swap for the empeg... we could do a new board with the latest DSP, an Xscale, 100mbit ethernet and USB2


Oh, talk about a major tease. Everytime I think about what could make the empeg better, it usually boils down to "but a mainboard swap could be so much easier".

If that was even a semi-serious thought, I'd like to put in some requests now

More memory.
Removable flash drive capability for userland apps- SDcard or similar.
USB2 *host* capability.
Buffered external display capability.
Bluetooth (Hey someone else asked...)

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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#145282 - 23/02/2003 20:43 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: genixia]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Removable flash drive capability for userland apps- SDcard or similar.
But if you've got USB host, you can attach your own flash reader...
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Tony Fabris

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#145283 - 23/02/2003 21:09 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: tfabris]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
I suppose that's true...
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#145284 - 23/02/2003 22:20 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: altman]
rtundo
addict

Registered: 27/02/2001
Posts: 569
Loc: Albany, NY
Maybe I need to talk to Patrick about a USB2 mainboard swap for the empeg... we could do a new board with the latest DSP, an Xscale, 100mbit ethernet and USB2

How long would a kit like that take to solder up anyway

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#145285 - 23/02/2003 22:37 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: rtundo]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
How long would a kit like that take to solder up anyway


How good are you at soldering 256 pin micro-BGA (Ball Grid Array) packages?

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#145286 - 24/02/2003 04:33 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: genixia]
Centrknol
stranger

Registered: 14/06/2002
Posts: 27
Loc: Berghem, the Netherlands
In reply to:

How good are you at soldering 256 pin micro-BGA (Ball Grid Array) packages?



Only more reasons to release the Empeg MK3! :-)

* more memory
* 100Mbit ethernet
* USB2 host
* External display
* color LCD display
* Wi/Fi and/or bluetooth
* build in tuner
* Build in S/PDIF
* build in DVD player
* lit buttons/knob
and on and on and on....


_________________________
Greetings, Robert -- I am woman, here me roar! *meow* Bubbles

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#145287 - 24/02/2003 05:13 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: Centrknol]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
Your describing Camelot (more or less)

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#145288 - 24/02/2003 07:48 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
Centrknol
stranger

Registered: 14/06/2002
Posts: 27
Loc: Berghem, the Netherlands
In reply to:

Your describing Camelot (more or less)



Got a link or something?
I've done a little bit of searching but can't find anything....
_________________________
Greetings, Robert -- I am woman, here me roar! *meow* Bubbles

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#145289 - 24/02/2003 08:13 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
I'm hoping it's not double din and could be fitted in the exsisting housing for mk2...
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#145290 - 24/02/2003 08:24 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: Centrknol]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
Did a bit of searching eh? Did you try the keyword "Camelot"??
This was one of the first things I came up with...
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#145291 - 24/02/2003 08:37 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: Centrknol]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489

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#145292 - 24/02/2003 08:38 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: lopan]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
Damn! You beat me to it!

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#145293 - 24/02/2003 11:00 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2298
Loc: Berkeley, California
Your describing Camelot.

It's only a model...

Matthew

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#145294 - 24/02/2003 11:20 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: matthew_k]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
And at least 4 years away...
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#145295 - 24/02/2003 13:14 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: tfabris]
Chimaera
enthusiast

Registered: 10/09/2002
Posts: 285
Loc: DFW Area, Texas, US
And if you have USB Host you cannot attach to a PC

What you want is a USB OTG port (and yes it can run at high speed)
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Mark. [blue]MKI, MKII & MKIIa, all Blue, and all Mine![/blue]

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#145296 - 24/02/2003 13:26 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: matthew_k]
revlmwest
addict

Registered: 05/06/2002
Posts: 497
Loc: Hartsville, South Carolina for...
ROFL Good call, Patsy.
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Michael West

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#145297 - 24/02/2003 13:28 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: revlmwest]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
ROFL Good call, Patsy.
At the San Fran dinner with Rob and Toby recently, it was explained that the "It's only a model" line was, in fact, why the product was code named Camelot.
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Tony Fabris

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#145298 - 24/02/2003 15:14 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: lopan]
Centrknol
stranger

Registered: 14/06/2002
Posts: 27
Loc: Berghem, the Netherlands
In reply to:

Did a bit of searching eh?




Euh... only did some searching on google thinking it was an product in mass volume production....
_________________________
Greetings, Robert -- I am woman, here me roar! *meow* Bubbles

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#145299 - 24/02/2003 15:29 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: Centrknol]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
just giving you a hard time....
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#145300 - 24/02/2003 20:49 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: lopan]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Come on guys, Hugo's throwing us a bone and you guys are asking for the moon! How about asking about some features that would keep us under the $2000 dollar mark and not require a whole new software build.

Improved DSP w. Bass and Treble
SubOut
Digital Audio Out
100base Ethernet
USB2.0
Higher res or larger size display?

I'm just guessing here...., but what would be some features that would really help the product without adding capabiliies that only 2% of the user base would use or that would shoot the costs up so high it would never get made.
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Brad B.

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#145301 - 24/02/2003 21:02 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Improved DSP w. Bass and Treble
Um, the current DSP has bass and treble, it's just that no one's implemented it in the software yet.
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Tony Fabris

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#145302 - 24/02/2003 21:03 Re: cut the time uploading to the MK2 in almost ha [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
Improved DSP w. Bass and Treble


Bass and Treble could be implemented on the exising DSP. But I would like to see a true multichannel DSP so we could set independant delays on all speakers.
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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