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#149166 - 19/03/2003 09:37 Meyers-Briggs
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
This is just one of those stupid idle curiosities, so indulge me if you will. I was wondering about personality types here, and if perhaps there might be some patterns among us. I’ve never taken an actual Meyers-Briggs test, but I’ve done one of the “based-on” kind that puts me as an INTJ. Apparently this is a rare personality type, but I was wondering if there might be more here. Anyhow, I’d be interested in knowing how others of you score; it might be interested to se what type of bunch we are. I suppose there might be those of you out there who think that such tests are bunk, but I’ll say that reading an INTJ description was very revealing about myself.

For those of you who don’t know your Meyers-Briggs personality type, there is a “based-on” test at http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#149167 - 19/03/2003 10:00 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JeffS]
fusto
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 504
Loc: Lummi Island, WA
You got an ENTP over here...
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...all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.

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#149168 - 19/03/2003 10:11 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: fusto]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
INTP

Edit:
Precise about their descriptions, INTPs will often correct others (or be sorely tempted to) if the shade of meaning is a bit off. While annoying to the less concise, this fine discrimination ability gives INTPs so inclined a natural advantage as, for example, grammarians and linguists.
Sound familiar?


Edited by wfaulk (19/03/2003 10:16)
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#149169 - 19/03/2003 10:12 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: wfaulk]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Ditto (INTP)

- Trevor


Edited by tman (19/03/2003 10:36)

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#149170 - 19/03/2003 10:16 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: tman]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3582
Loc: Columbus, OH
ISTP
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~ John

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#149171 - 19/03/2003 10:17 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JeffS]
phaigh
addict

Registered: 04/11/1999
Posts: 649
Loc: Reading, UK
ENTJ..
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#149172 - 19/03/2003 10:35 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JeffS]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Myers-Briggs is complete bullshit, no better than horoscopes, numerology, or tarot.

Have you ever read through one of the MBTI type descriptions for someone other than yourself? I have. I've read through many of them, and just like horoscopes, they all sound like they accurately describe me. They all fail the same simple horoscope test that James Randi gave to that college class on his Nova special (everyone rates their horoscopes as being 99 percent accurate, only to find that the entire class was given the exact same horoscope reading).

From the Skeptic's Dictionary Entry on MBTI:

The people at CPP aren’t too concerned if the list doesn’t seem to match your type. They advise such persons to see the one who administered the test and ask for help in finding a more suitable list by changing a letter or two in your four-letter type. (See the report CPP publishes on its Web site.) Furthermore, no matter what your preferences, your behavior will still sometimes indicate contrasting behavior. Thus, no behavior can ever be used to falsify the type, and any behavior can be used to verify it.
Keep in mind that this is based on Carl Jung's concepts, a man who believed in some pretty weird and unscientific shit.
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Tony Fabris

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#149173 - 19/03/2003 10:38 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: tfabris]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Myers-Briggs is complete bullshit, no better than horoscopes, numerology, or tarot.
Ah, come on. There's more to it than that. It's at least based on how you perceive yourself, not arbitrary data like the time you were born or how your parents named you or total randomness.

On the other hand, I don't think that anyone is really going to base their lives on this stuff. It's just for fun.

Edit: Oh, and to refute, I've read some of the other types (though not all), and none of them seem to describe me remotely as well as INTP does. OTOH, some people have more significant tendencies than others (M-B terminology aside). Mine are fairly significant. Perhaps yours are not.


Edited by wfaulk (19/03/2003 10:41)
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#149174 - 19/03/2003 10:44 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JeffS]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
ENTP, apparently.
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#149175 - 19/03/2003 10:45 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: wfaulk]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
It's just for fun.
Some companies make hiring or promotion decisions based on MBTI. Now what's fun?
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Tony Fabris

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#149176 - 19/03/2003 10:48 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: tfabris]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I've never seen any such thing. Basing any such promotion on any sort of psychological test is asinine, regardless of it's accuracy.

But if that's the case, I understand where you're coming from. At least it's better than an E-Meter or an Oxford Personality Test.
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Bitt Faulk

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#149177 - 19/03/2003 10:51 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JBjorgen]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
INTJ

Oh, and if you have read the Jargon File, it is amusing to note their discussions on the matter.
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200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#149178 - 19/03/2003 10:59 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: fusto]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
Ditto. ENTP

Both at work and at home, ENTPs are very fond of "toys"--physical or intellectual, the more sophisticated the better.


Ah. That explains it.
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#149179 - 19/03/2003 11:21 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: genixia]
Heather
addict

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 510
Loc: NY
ENTP.

The one VW audi teaches in their training classes is much more useful. If I get another minute free from my tards, I'll post it.
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Heather

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -Susan B Anthony

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#149180 - 19/03/2003 11:27 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JeffS]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
INFP.
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my empeg stuff

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#149181 - 19/03/2003 11:28 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: tfabris]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Some companies make hiring or promotion decisions based on MBTI. Now what's fun?

I'd say that's fairly silly, though so are interviews and resumes if you get right down to it. Anyone who believes they can make solid hiring decision based on one conversation (except perhaps marketing-sales people for whom making a good first impression is part of the job) is naive at best. The same goes for looking at few sheets of paper, although at least the information there is more substantial. Still, I’d agree the Meyers-Briggs probably shouldn’t be used for those kinds of decisions.

For my money, though, Meyers-Briggs is useful, not for observing absolutes but for tendencies. And it’s just fun between “friends”.
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#149182 - 19/03/2003 11:42 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JeffS]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
On the other side of things, I do remember a Dilbert cartoon a couple of weeks ago in which the HR person said something to the effect of, “your personality does not fit within the parameters of our test, therefore you have not personality and one will be assigned to you.”
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-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#149183 - 19/03/2003 11:48 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JeffS]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12318
Loc: Sterling, VA
Apparently I'm INTJ as well. Guess you're not the only one.

I'd have to say, I think Tony is right on this one. Not because of anything the result tells me, but because the questions are so totally bogus and touchy-feely. I really had no idea how to answer half of those questions, and with the only possibilities being Yes or No, I can't think it's very accurate.

On the other hand, I don't really mind being called a "Mastermind"
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#149184 - 19/03/2003 11:51 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: Dignan]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
On the other hand, I don't really mind being called a "Mastermind"

Yes, that does lend the test some credibility.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#149185 - 19/03/2003 11:57 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: Dignan]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I don't really mind being called a "Mastermind"
Green, Green, Blue, Red.
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Bitt Faulk

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#149186 - 19/03/2003 12:00 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: wfaulk]
butter
enthusiast

Registered: 07/03/2002
Posts: 211
Loc: State side
Green, Green, Blue, Red.

two white pegs and one black peg.

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Tobin
Mark IIa - 60gb - Smoke
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#149187 - 19/03/2003 12:27 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: Dignan]
trs24
old hand

Registered: 20/03/2002
Posts: 729
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
INTJ here, too...
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#149188 - 19/03/2003 12:52 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: trs24]
753
member

Registered: 25/10/1999
Posts: 149
Yet another INTJ, weren't those supposed to be rare ... ?
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#149189 - 19/03/2003 12:56 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: 753]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
weren't those supposed to be rare ... ?

Yes, and that was one of the reasons I started this. Either the profile was wrong (which is possible), and/or this board doesn't represent an even distribution of personality types. Certainly the latter is true at least as we've only had one "S" so far in my counting (sorry Meatballman, you're the odd man out!).
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#149190 - 19/03/2003 13:01 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JeffS]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3582
Loc: Columbus, OH
Maybe my googlism is right....maybe I am a woman...
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#149191 - 19/03/2003 13:05 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JeffS]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I'd say there's a large percentage of geeks here (especially those posters that are likely to respond within a few hours), which would tend to skew things towards INT*, if you are to believe the literature on such things.

Edit: The Keirsey web site provides some statistics.


Edited by wfaulk (19/03/2003 13:12)
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Bitt Faulk

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#149192 - 19/03/2003 13:07 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: 753]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1996
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Yet another INTJ, weren't those supposed to be rare ... ?


empegs are also rare

Another INTJ here...

/Michael
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#149193 - 19/03/2003 13:27 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: wfaulk]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
It's at least based on how you perceive yourself, not arbitrary data like the time you were born or how your parents named you or total randomness.
Yet, as was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, many of the questions aren't easily answered and the process essentially amounts to pseudo-random selection.

And anyway, the selection method is just a red herring. What's important is the end-result. And in this case, the end result is a set of descriptions which are vague enough to apply to anyone... just like horoscopes.

I think the main problem with horoscopes, or MBTI, or any other similar system, is that it tries to make a blanket judgment about something as complex as the human psyche, claiming that a few paragraphs can sum up a personality. They try to split it up into sections, but do you really believe there are only a dozen personality types on this planet? Okay, horoscopes have 12, MBTI has 16, but my point is that the granularity is still too large. With such extreme variation among personalities that I see in this world, even a thousand detailed personality classifications wouldn't be granular enough.

I think there is some value in the concept of having an axis for various facets of your personality. I think MBTI's problem is in assuming that there are only four axes, and that one must choose whether they fall at either end of a given axis to fit their cookie cutter. Because the resolution isn't granular enough, they have to generalize too much in their descriptions of each of the 16 possible results. Hence, the horoscope-like flavor to their types.

I see human tendencies more like a multi-band equalizer, with many many different and subtle traits (Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands?), and a wide variation of balance among those traits. Unfortunately, that metaphor doesn't work into a packageable, saleable product with a simple quick-and-easy multiple-choice test.

Hmm... Then again, with the right marketing, the TFEQ personality system could one day supplant MBTI as the most accurate personality test ever devised. And then... I shall rule the world... and everyone on this BBS will get a piece. But remember, I still have dibs on New Zealand...
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Tony Fabris

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#149194 - 19/03/2003 13:29 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: JeffS]
butter
enthusiast

Registered: 07/03/2002
Posts: 211
Loc: State side
iStP or "Top Gun"

Highway to the Danger Zone.
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Tobin
Mark IIa - 60gb - Smoke
[blue]fitter, happier, more productive[/blue]

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#149195 - 19/03/2003 13:33 Re: Meyers-Briggs [Re: butter]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
iStP or "Top Gun"
Highway to the Danger Zone.
So is that the personality type that enjoys bad eighties-era manufactured-pop songs?
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Tony Fabris

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