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#153015 - 03/04/2003 15:23 80GB HD in empeg!
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
I just took delivery of a new Hitachi 80GB Travelstar (thanks Paul for finding these)!

One word: TINY! I can't get over how much smaller this is than the IBM Travelstar 48GB and 60GB drives.... I'm running the builder right now, I'll update on the install later tonight or tomorrow (depends on how long it takes to transer 48GB to this thing).

I guess that for a few hours (until Paul puts TWO of these things in) I'll have the largest capacity empeg!
_________________________
Brad B.

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#153016 - 03/04/2003 15:35 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

I actually hope to have at least one player at 160GB tonight. But, meanwhile...



My plan is to use two players, build two drives as masters. Then I will have each as a master with one of the 60s from my previous installation as slaves. After doing a disk to disk copy, it should be set. Reassemble and test. Repeat.

I hope to take a photo of emplode with 2 empty 80s, to see what space is available.


Attachments
151040-MVC-002F.JPG (36 downloads)



Edited by pgrzelak (03/04/2003 15:43)
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#153017 - 03/04/2003 15:44 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
Chuck
member

Registered: 06/06/2001
Posts: 183
You're just sick. You two are going to make me go ahead and buy at least two of these. Let me know how everything goes!

-Chuck

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#153018 - 03/04/2003 16:15 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Now copying files... Looks good! I'll at least have 15 min. of fame from this. :P
_________________________
Brad B.

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#153019 - 03/04/2003 16:38 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

Um, sorry... I had at least hoped to get 150GB (real space) out of the 160GB (marketing space).



Attachments
151057-blank160.jpg (40 downloads)

_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#153020 - 03/04/2003 16:39 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: pgrzelak]
KungFuCow
enthusiast

Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 234
Ouch...... Denied (In Quake 3 announcer voice)

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#153021 - 03/04/2003 16:49 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: KungFuCow]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Yeah, but I am cheating. I am using two players to build the drives and copy the original disks. That, and the emplode snapshot was an empty player. Brad will have the higher capacity player fully functional before I do. I just wanted to find out how much space it would really give you, and (to be honest) to be the first to get the dual 80 laptop drive configuration working in emplode...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#153022 - 03/04/2003 17:10 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: pgrzelak]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Ouch. That does suck. It's not even close to 150:
% dc -e "5 k 1000 3 ^ 1024 3 ^ / 160 * p"      

149.01120
It's frustrating that we're now ``losing'' more space due to manufacturers' prevarications than we could get all told ten years ago.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#153023 - 03/04/2003 17:17 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: pgrzelak]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Hehe, dangit you beat me! I always knew it'd be a 5 minutes of fame thing - so I guess when I started copying files over, I had the record for a few minutes (128GB)..

I don't think these drives will be a problem. They are low speed (4800rpm compared to 5600 in the 48 and 60GB Travelstars) so they will generate less heat. Also, they are rated at the same 5.0v 1a power draw. I'm guessing the smaller size will be less mass to move too.

Drive makers need to get with the program here as far as rating capacity goes.. a decade ago, losing a few hundrew MB was no big deal, but now we are being denied GB's! Laptop, LCD and television manufactuers caught on to listing "actual" sizes, why can't HD be the same way?
_________________________
Brad B.

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#153024 - 03/04/2003 17:25 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

It would be nice. But all of the other manufacturers were forced to change due to litigation. Drive manufacturers are very clear to mention in their literature that 80GB means 80,000,000,000 bytes. Pity.

Meanwhile, I am taking my time for the copy. How long did your copy take? Do you have any throughput estimates?
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#153025 - 03/04/2003 17:30 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: pgrzelak]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
It hasn't been copying more than an hour.... I'm going to keep a close eye on it. I had only 200mb free on the 48GB drive, so we should be able to figure it out when it's done. I wish hyperterminal did timestamping..
_________________________
Brad B.

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#153026 - 04/04/2003 09:06 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

13.5 hours later, my 60GB of data has been copied to the 80GB drives. Now, I am doing an fsck on the drives to make certain everything is marked clean. After that, I will attempt to assemble a player with all my data on the two 80GB drives and test it out. If all goes well, I will start building the others.

I haven't done the math of the throughput yet. It seemed slower than I thought it would be, but not horribly so...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#153027 - 04/04/2003 09:29 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: pgrzelak]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
Paul (or anyone),

Can you tell me how to get data from a full 60gb player (2x30gb) onto the two 60GB drives that I'm buying from you using only a single player? I realize that the files are stored on the drives like regular files, but I also know there is a database of FIDs somewhere and that complicates matters. What about metadata (times played, etc)? I'll reload if I need to, but 60GB at 10Mbit/sec blows. I have to do that once already to fill up the second 60GB.

Thanks in advance,
Jim

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#153028 - 04/04/2003 09:30 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: pgrzelak]
Chuck
member

Registered: 06/06/2001
Posts: 183
Thanks for the update. If everything seems to work perfectly for you, I'm going to order a couple of these drives. Thanks for making me spend even more money.

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#153029 - 04/04/2003 09:36 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: TigerJimmy]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1995
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Have you read the excellent disk upgrade guide? I believe it answers all your questions (for instance look at step 7 "Step 7: Copying files (special circumstances only)" - if not get back with any specifics unanswered.

/Michael
_________________________
/Michael

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#153030 - 04/04/2003 09:48 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: mtempsch]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
Erm... <blush>, Ooops. I'll check the FAQ...

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#153031 - 04/04/2003 10:05 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: mtempsch]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
Awright, I *do* have a question after reading the FAQ...

I understand that whole business and it makes great sense for how to copy all of the data from primary drive to the replacement primary drive. What about secondary to secondary? It seems to me that with both secondary drives installed there won't be anything to boot. It seems to me there are two reasonable options after copying the data on the old secondary drive:

1. Install a developer image on the new secondary drive so it will function temporarily as a primary drive. For all I know both drives have boot and OS data on them anyway, but I don't think this is the case. (Is this correct? The player software installs boot/OS, right? The builder image just formats and partitions the disks? If so, doesn't the player/OS data just get written to the primary disk?).

2. I can copy the data from the old primary to the new secondary and then from the old secondary to the new primary. I don't see why this wouldn't work, but I'm not sure. Possibly config.ini could be a problem? What about partition 3 metadata? That is only stored on the first drive, isn't it?Comments?

Thanks again. I apologize if this is obvious and these are stupid questions.

Jim

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#153032 - 04/04/2003 10:07 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: TigerJimmy]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
Ummm. OK, the boot image and OS is probably on the flash, right? Then both drives are just data drives? If so, is the dynamic data partition and the config.ini on *both* drives?

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#153033 - 04/04/2003 10:11 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: pgrzelak]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
I gave up on my 48GB transfer after 4.5 hours and went to bed. I'm happy to say the upgrade went flawlessly. I'm uploading albums already - everything is working great.
_________________________
Brad B.

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#153034 - 04/04/2003 10:12 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: TigerJimmy]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
TigerJimmy, as Michael pointed out, the Upgrade guide explains it all. It's a very well writen tutorial. Basically, treat what you are doing as 2 upgrades. First you are replaceing one of the drives, then the other.
_________________________
Brad B.

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#153035 - 04/04/2003 10:16 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: TigerJimmy]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Jimmy, read the whole thing again. You install the player software on both drives (even though the player only uses the Primary for player software). The only real differance between Primary and Secondary is the jumper position.

In reply to:

With the new drive still plugged in, apply the developer upgrade of the player software. You know, the one that you had ready ahead of time. You should do this even if the drive is only intended as a secondary drive. The reasons are multifold: To prevent the kernel from trying to fry the old disk when you attach it in the next step, to make sure all the folders are in their proper places, and to let the drive work as a "backup" drive should the primary drive fail. If you are formatting two fresh, blank disks, you should install the the developer build onto both of them (by swapping them into the primary drive slot and applying the upgrade individually).


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Brad B.

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#153036 - 04/04/2003 10:18 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
TigerJimmy
old hand

Registered: 15/02/2002
Posts: 1049
OK. I just didn't realize the player software was on both drives. The guide *is* very well written. Perhaps I was just overthinking it.

Thanks all,

Jim

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#153037 - 04/04/2003 11:04 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: Chuck]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

Everything looks good! First player checks out fine. Now to start work on the other two. Enjoy!
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#153038 - 04/04/2003 12:17 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: TigerJimmy]
tms13
old hand

Registered: 30/07/2001
Posts: 1115
Loc: Lochcarron and Edinburgh
The metadata partition, the databases, and config.ini are on the first drive only.

My strategy for replacing my secondary drive was to build my new drive in the primary positon, then add my old drive as secondary (i.e. where it was originally), copy /drive1/* to /drive0, then remove both drives, and jumper the new drive as secondary, placing it with my original primary drive where it was originally.

Using two machines for this meant I didn't actually have to move my primary drive or reinstall the player and Hijack, but the principles should be obvious.
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Toby Speight
030103016 (80GB Mk2a, blue)
030102806 (0GB Mk2a, blue)

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#153039 - 04/04/2003 14:58 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: tms13]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5569
Loc: London, UK
The metadata partition, the databases, and config.ini are on the first drive only.

But the databases don't matter -- they can be rebuilt completely from the *1 files.

The other stuff does, if there's anything interesting in there.
_________________________
-- roger

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#153040 - 04/04/2003 15:19 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: Roger]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Roger, I think you were having trouble finding a 60GB that was slim enough for your VIAO notebook - these are a lot thinner than those. About the same thickness as the 10GB drives that come w. the RioCar.
_________________________
Brad B.

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#153041 - 04/04/2003 15:53 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: Roger]
image
old hand

Registered: 28/04/2002
Posts: 770
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
i was wondering... if i were to port id3 tagging to the empeg and modify the files directly, can i delete the *1 fids and tell emplode/emptool to rescan the tags?

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#153042 - 04/04/2003 16:13 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: image]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
If you could port id3 tagging, many people would love that!
_________________________
Brad B.

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#153043 - 04/04/2003 16:32 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
I've got a Toshiba 60GB (MK6021GAS) and it's much thinner than the equivalent IBM/Hitachi Travelstar.
It's a lower RPM than the Travelstar though. How thick are the new 80GB's?

- Trevor

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#153044 - 04/04/2003 16:32 Re: 80GB HD in empeg! [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Unfortunately, I think that scan comes in through emplode (or jemplode). It might be possible to port to the player, but it would be a bit tricky.

You are very right about the 80s being nice, thin (9.5mm high compared to the 12.5mm high 60s) and compact. They are perfect if the 60s were too tall. Very slim design, similar to the old 10GB drives. I am quite happy / impressed so far.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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