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#198596 - 05/12/2006 13:30 Re: Empeg stuck in AC mode. Dead Transistor is the culprit. [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Quote:
What else can affect the ability to dectect AC or DC power? I had Ian replace the LVX04 chip at the empeg meet in Cincy two years ago. That didn't fix the problem, so Mark replaced the power jack for me a couple weeks ago. Still no dice. Empeg seems to work quite well other than this.


Did you ever get this sorted out?

We've got an MK2 unit which we replaced both those parts in also and it did not fix the problem either. In addition to not sensing AC properly, this one also has trouble starting up on occasion. The display light will turn on and flash a couple times, but the player doesn't boot and the display remains blank except for the heating wires. The only solution is to pull the power and reapply.

The problem doesn't seem to be any of the resistors in the path. Does anyone know if these problems could be caused by the power control PIC?

Stu


The thing to do next would be to check for continuity (and also for shorts to GND or +5V) between the power jack's sensor pin and the 74LVX04 chip (pin 9). Then do the same checks again between the 74LVX04 (pin 8) and the SA1100 CPU (pin 53). The fault pretty much has to be on one of those two traces, if the power jack and 74LVX04 themselves are okay.

-ml

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#198597 - 05/12/2006 14:30 Re: Empeg stuck in AC mode. Dead Transistor is the culprit. [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Funny thing is I checked all those things. The switch definitely works fine and there's continuity between all those pins and no continuity between +5V and ground. I've put two different 74LVX04s in the unit and neither one has helped. Pin 53 of the Strongarm goes high and low as it should so the 74LVX04 should be working, but still the unit remains stuck in AC mode. Doesn't the power control PIC play some part in how this all works?

Stu
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#198598 - 05/12/2006 15:27 Re: Empeg stuck in AC mode. Dead Transistor is the culprit. [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I tried using only one HD at a time, but the problem of not booting remains on occasion.

Stu
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#198599 - 05/12/2006 16:27 Re: Empeg stuck in AC mode. Dead Transistor is the culprit. [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Pin 53 of the Strongarm goes high and low as it should


I believe that (pin 53) is all that is necessary for this stuff to work.

The player s/w uses pin 53 to detect AC/DC. So if you see the player thinking "AC" when it's really on "DC" (or the other way round), and pin 53 has been verified to be getting the correct levels, then that input on the SA1100 is probably fried.

Just to recap: is that the actual problem here: player uses DC when on AC (or vice-versa)?

??

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#198600 - 05/12/2006 16:59 Re: Empeg stuck in AC mode. Dead Transistor is the culprit. [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:

I believe that (pin 53) is all that is necessary for this stuff to work.

The player s/w uses pin 53 to detect AC/DC. So if you see the player thinking "AC" when it's really on "DC" (or the other way round), and pin 53 has been verified to be getting the correct levels, then that input on the SA1100 is probably fried.

Just to recap: is that the actual problem here: player uses DC when on AC (or vice-versa)?

??


Player on DC equals 3.3 volts at pin 53, but player is in AC mode. Player on AC equals 0 volts at pin 53 and player is in AC mode. So you vote for dead GPIO? I was leaning towards that too, I was just hoping there was some other component that might be to blame.

The other problem is that the unit does not boot reliably. Perhaps they are both from a sick Strongarm?

Stu
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#198601 - 05/12/2006 17:41 Re: Empeg stuck in AC mode. Dead Transistor is the culprit. [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Just for fun, try this:

(1) Go to the Hijack "Force AC/DC Power Mode" menu, and ensure it is set for Normal.

(2) Reboot the player using the Hijack menu to do so.

(3) What power mode does the player now think it is using?
(4) What is the "Current Mode" shown by Hijack on the "Force AC/DC Power Mode" screen?

-ml

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#198602 - 05/12/2006 17:42 Re: Empeg stuck in AC mode. Dead Transistor is the culprit. [Re: mlord]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Of course, try all of that when using DC power from the docking connector (but not from one of my docks).

-ml

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#198603 - 05/12/2006 18:17 Re: Empeg stuck in AC mode. Dead Transistor is the culprit. [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Just for fun, try this:

(1) Go to the Hijack "Force AC/DC Power Mode" menu, and ensure it is set for Normal.

(2) Reboot the player using the Hijack menu to do so.

(3) What power mode does the player now think it is using?
(4) What is the "Current Mode" shown by Hijack on the "Force AC/DC Power Mode" screen?

-ml


When connecting to the docking connector, sometimes I get a DC reading, sometimes an AC and sometimes it refuses to reboot all the way. Most of the time I get AC.

Stu
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#198604 - 11/01/2007 18:18 Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I think I have at least a little bit of an idea about why the unit would not detect DC or boot reliably. It seems to have something to do with Hijack or some setting associated with it. I have attached a boot log (no HDs attached) which first shows a successful boot and then a nonsuccessful boot. I noticed that the unit would always fail at the same spot which is when it loads the custom animated boot logo. I do not know what this has to do with not reading the state of the powerjack, but it certainly seems they are related. Mark, do you have any idea why a boot logo or anything involved with Hijack would cause the two problems of unreliable booting and no sense of power jack? I also noticed it says tuner: loopback=1, ID= -1 even though the Hijack menu was set for a normal boot.

Thanks for any help,
Stu


Attachments
293010-no_bootlog.txt (75 downloads)

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#198605 - 12/01/2007 02:48 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Quote:
I noticed that the unit would always fail at the same spot which is when it loads the custom animated boot logo.


I think one obvious thing to do, is to delete the boot animation from that player. I think JEmplode (or LogoEdit ?) should be able to do that. Reinstall Hijack after doing so, and then see if it behaves better or not.

-ml

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#198606 - 12/01/2007 11:47 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Hi Mark,

Thanks. That's exactly what I proceeded to do (with JEmplode) and yes without the logo it detects and boots consistently with Hijack installed. It just seems really strange these problems were caused by a boot logo. Anyone know why it would cause this?

This is an MK2 player, so is it possible it doesn't have enough memory to display the logo and carry out the boot process simultaeously? The logo was kind of long although I don't remeber exactly how long.

Tony, if you are reading this maybe you can add something in the FAQ about removing boot logos as a solution to not detecting AC/DC and or incomplete booting.

Thanks,
Stu
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#198607 - 12/01/2007 11:53 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3440
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
Hmm. Maybe I'll give that a try with my player (also an MK2). Mine has upgraded memory (16 meg), so if that fixes the problem, we can count out the memory.
_________________________
~ John

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#198608 - 12/01/2007 12:07 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Quote:

This is an MK2 player, so is it possible it doesn't have enough memory to display the logo and carry out the boot process simultaeously?

Nope. That's always okay, regardless of memory.

Quote:
The logo was kind of long although I don't remeber exactly how long.
That's what I was suspecting. We don't really have any safeguards against super-long animations, and if they are too long, they'll overwrite parts of the kernel[EDIT] (actually, the "initrd" gets overwritten -- which is just as bad) [/EDIT], which is never really that good.


Edited by mlord (12/01/2007 12:17)

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#198609 - 12/01/2007 12:12 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: mlord]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Mmm.. and there's also this note I placed in the kernel source code years ago:
Code:

// Mmm.. bit of a race condition here: we shouldn't be accessing
// the flash memory directly (playing the animation), in case empeg_state
// wants to write to it when accessed via hijack_init() from display_animation().
// So what we do about it is.. nothing. Probably not an issue anyway.


I think a long animation would greatly increase the chances of this situation arising and causing problems. But there's not enough info to know if that was the case here (or is there? I didn't see any sign of a "bad flash checksum" message in the logs).

-ml

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#198610 - 12/01/2007 13:26 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
I need a copy of that HUGE animation file, please.

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#198611 - 12/01/2007 15:03 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Let me see if I can get a hold of it. It's not my player, and I was more concerned (at the time) about getting it working. I will post it if the owner sends me a copy.

Stu
_________________________
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#198612 - 12/01/2007 15:22 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Ok, thanks.

What I think happened is this:

The animation was *way* too huge, spilling over into the final flash memory block of the kernel. When uploading Hijack, it overwrote the tail end of the animation, which just happens to contain the "frame index table" of the animation. This caused the animation player to "go wild" while trying to display it, which could make just about anything happen..

Of course, that's just my theory for now. If the actual animation was not "too huge", then something else must have been wrong.

Cheers

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#198613 - 12/01/2007 15:29 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Well I got a copy of the logo. In my memory it sure seemed longer than this; guess I need an upgrade . No telling why it would cause a problem. I guess I could try reloading it and see if the problem comes back.

Stu


Attachments
293046-226632-odyssey.gif (113 downloads)

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#198614 - 12/01/2007 17:16 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31021
Loc: Seattle, WA
How many frames is that animation?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#198615 - 12/01/2007 18:04 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: tfabris]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
28 frames. I just put it back on and it still kills the player.

Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#198616 - 12/01/2007 18:23 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: tfabris]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I can't imagine that the number of frames has any bearing on the issue. The total binary size should be the relevant datum.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#198617 - 12/01/2007 19:06 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: wfaulk]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Funny, when I reloaded Hijack and removed the animation, the player remained unhappy. This time once Hijack was removed the player returned to normal. I now get the attached boot with Hijack and no animation.

Stu


Attachments
293068-no_bootlog.txt (83 downloads)

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If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#198618 - 12/01/2007 21:19 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31021
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
This time once Hijack was removed the player returned to normal.

That would be consistent with Mark's hypothesis. Rememeber that "removing" hijack actually isn't removing anything, it's replacing the kernel with a stock kernel.

If I'm understanding the thread properly, Mark's hypothesis is that an overly large animation file (hence my question about number of frames) will overwrite kernel code because the two things are intermingled in the flash RAM. So if you remove the offending animation, the kernel code is still hosed. Replacing the hosed kernel code would fix it.

Of course, the above makes a lot of assumptions.

EDIT: No, I was reading Mark's hypothesis wrong. Never mind.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#198619 - 12/01/2007 21:37 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: tfabris]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Yep. For some reason the player will not work properly even with a fresh copy of Hijack and no animation.

Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#198620 - 12/01/2007 21:50 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Could somebody please convert that .gif animation to Empeg format for me?

Thanks

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#198621 - 12/01/2007 22:00 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13816
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Yep. For some reason the player will not work properly even with a fresh copy of Hijack and no animation.



How are you "removing" the animation? Hijack probably thinks it's still there.

Here, try this copy of Hijack: http://rtr.ca/v466_noanim.zImage
It *ignores* any user-supplied animation, and should boot up if that's really the problem here.

If it does boot up, then FTP to that player and GET /proc/empeg_kernel, and send it to me for analysis. You could also get /proc/empeg_kernel via the web interface, if that's any easier for you.

Thanks.


Edited by mlord (12/01/2007 22:03)

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#198622 - 12/01/2007 22:42 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I was removing the animation in Jemplode using the clear animation command.

Okay I tried the new Hijack, but the same problem is presenting itself. It will boot every so often, but not much. As soon as I reinstall 2.01, all is well.

Stu
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#198623 - 12/01/2007 22:50 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Mark, I have the Empeg kernel, but it cannot be attached due to size constraints. Would you like me to e-mail it to you?

Thanks,
Stu
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If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#198624 - 13/01/2007 00:29 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: maczrool]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Mark, I have the Empeg kernel, but it cannot be attached due to size constraints. Would you like me to e-mail it to you?


I just bumped up the attachment limit to something that should be large enough for it here.
_________________________
Tom

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#198625 - 13/01/2007 12:37 Re: Hijack preventing AC/DC Detection and Booting? [Re: drakino]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Thanks Tom. Here's the empeg kernel I got during one of the times the unit was able to boot (obviously).

Stu


Attachments
293090-empeg_kernel (111 downloads)

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