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#222557 - 08/01/2003 06:24 Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!!
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
I am having a really hard time with the Rio Sonic Blue MP3 Receiver. I have a Win2K box with plenty of speed,memory, etc. I am using a Linksys Router/Switch with wireless AP. I am also running Zone Alarm firewall. The Win2K PC is the only PC on my network.

I started the Receiver manager on my PC. I then plugged the reciever into an open port on the router. When I start the receiver it tries to connect and never does. When Zone Alarm is running, the receiver manager sees the receiver, but the receiver eventually timesout. The zone alarm logs show that it has blocked UDP access even if I add it to my trusted zone and set the security to Low. If I disable zone alarm the receiver manager does not even recognize the receiver. I have tried several different network settings with no luck. I unplug the receiver (power) after every change. The only thing that I have left to try is converting my FAT 32 file system to NTFS.

I know the receiver works because I tried it on a friends laptop where both the receiver and laptop were connected to a switch.

Any ideas? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Drew


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#222558 - 09/01/2003 15:25 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
I started using a sniffer. It is able to get an IP from the router, but I get a "Destination unreacheable" IMCP error. It is when the receiver is trying to access UDP port 18678 on my PC. I ran netstat and that port is active for IP 0.0.0.0. Any ideas?

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#222559 - 09/01/2003 16:02 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
You sound like you probably know what you are doing, but do you think we could see the output from ipconfig /all just to make sure there is nothing screwy in your network card setup ?
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#222560 - 12/01/2003 19:26 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
Windows 2000 IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : drewbitt
Primary DNS Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NETGEAR FA311/FA312 PCI Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-09-5B-05-86-06
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 151.197.0.38
151.197.0.39
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, January 12, 2003 11:10:15 AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, January 13, 2003 11:10:15 AM

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#222561 - 13/01/2003 00:15 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Ok, well the first thing that it obvious is that your PC is getting it's IP addresses via DHCP.

Have you tried puttting the PC onto a fixed IP address, turning off the DHCP server (which is presumably on your router) and letting the Rio software act as the DHCP server for the Receiver. I'm not necessarily suggesting this as a long term fix, just as something to investigate if it makes any difference.
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#222562 - 13/01/2003 18:45 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
yep, tried that as well. I just continue to get a destination unreacheable ICMP error.

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#222563 - 13/01/2003 19:19 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Very odd.

All I can suggest is you capture the whole thing from the Receiver power on using Ethereal http://www.ethereal.com/ and post the raw capture data here for people to pick over. At least then we compare it to a working setup and see where it is going wrong. If you do this then do it with the Receiver plugged straight into the router and turn Zone Alarm off.

Of course you probably want to make sure there is nothing private in the Ethereal trace...

The other thing is to go through the steps to make sure that the Receiver software is running properly that Roger listed here:

http://rioreceiver.comms.net/php/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=general&Number=2780&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=


Edited by andy (13/01/2003 19:47)
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#222564 - 13/01/2003 19:51 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Thought I'd better check back with the original question and make sure I asked you the right questions, it appears I didn't.

When I start the receiver it tries to connect and never does.

What does the Receiver display on it's screen in this case ?

If I disable zone alarm the receiver manager does not even recognize the receiver.

And what does it display in this case ?

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#222565 - 13/01/2003 19:58 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I get a "Destination unreacheable" IMCP error. It is when the receiver is trying to access UDP port 18678 on my PC.

It isn't actually the Receiver trying to access the PC, it is the Audio Receiver Manager software on the PC trying to access the Receiver. It polls the Receiver on UDP port 18678 every few seconds to see what track it is playing.

You are probably seeing "Destination unreacheable" returned from the Receiver because the boot process has failed for whatever reason and it is therefore not running the player software which is what responds to the 18678 poll.

Either your intial DHCP transaction is failing to set the right data for the Receiver (so it can't find the PC) or something on your PC is stopping the Receiver from loading it's software over the network.
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#222566 - 14/01/2003 05:19 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
------------------------------
When I start the receiver it tries to connect and never does.

What does the Receiver display on it's screen in this case ?
------------------------------

It displays info on the receiver IP, the mask and the gateway

------------------------------
If I disable zone alarm the receiver manager does not even recognize the receiver.

And what does it display in this case ?
------------------------------

It displays the same as above, the IP info, etc


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#222567 - 14/01/2003 05:22 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
What IP does it show ? Does it show at 192.168.x.x one or a 169.254.x.x one ?
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#222568 - 14/01/2003 05:25 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
192.168.x.x

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#222569 - 14/01/2003 05:30 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
192.168.x.x

Well, at least it is finding a DHCP server then.

I know you said that you had tried turning the DHCP server on the router off...

...but I think the most likely cause of problems at this moment is that the Receiver is finding the router's DHCP server rather than the one in the ARM software. If the Receiver gets it's DHCP lease from the router it won't have the data it needs to then find the ARM software on the PC (the DHCP response that the ARM software sends tells it where to find it's firmware image to boot from).
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#222570 - 14/01/2003 05:42 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21

When running Ethereal, I can see the receiver making a broadcast looking for my PC. The message says something like, "Who is <PC's IP>? Tell <Receiver's MAC>". Then I see the the PC sending a broadcast, "Who is <Recevier's IP>? Tell <Ethernet cards MAC>". The order may be reversed, but that does occur. Then I see UDP messages coming from my PC on port 18678 to the receiver's port 18678. Then I get the destination unreacheable (code 3 - invalid port) where the source is the receiver 18678 and the destination is the PC 18678.

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#222571 - 14/01/2003 05:53 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
When running Ethereal, I can see the receiver making a broadcast looking for my PC. The message says something like, "Who is <PC's IP>? Tell <Receiver's MAC>". Then I see the the PC sending a broadcast, "Who is <Recevier's IP>? Tell <Ethernet cards MAC>". The order may be reversed, but that does occur.

That does imply that the Receiver got the DHCP data from the PC, otherwise it wouldn't be doing an ARP request on the PC's IP address.

Then I see UDP messages coming from my PC on port 18678 to the receiver's port 18678. Then I get the destination unreacheable (code 3 - invalid port) where the source is the receiver 18678 and the destination is the PC 18678.

That is entirely expected. Until the Receiver has found it's firmware on the PC, downloaded it across the network and booted from it there is nothing listening on port 18678.

If you don't want to post your Ethereal trace here then send it to me at receiver@norman.cx and I'll see if I can spot what it happening.
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#222572 - 14/01/2003 06:56 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5570
Loc: London, UK
the DHCP response that the ARM software sends tells it where to find it's firmware image to boot from

No it doesn't. The Receiver uses a second UDP broadcast to find its firmware image. It works fine with other DHCP servers, and was in fact designed to.
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#222573 - 14/01/2003 07:03 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: Roger]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Fair enough. I was confused by the fact that the ARM DHCP server sends the details of where to find the kernel. I guess this data isn't actually used by the Receiver ?
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#222574 - 14/01/2003 07:43 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5570
Loc: London, UK
I guess this data isn't actually used by the Receiver ?

No, it's not. It did this during development, when we were (IIRC) using DHCP/TFTP to boot the development boards.
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-- roger

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#222575 - 14/01/2003 08:05 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: Roger]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I wish it was still using TFTP...

...I was going to use developing a complete replacement for ARM as a nice big .NET project to properly cut my .NET teeth. Everytime I look at it having to implement my own NFS server puts me off the idea.
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#222576 - 14/01/2003 09:05 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5570
Loc: London, UK
You'd still need an NFS server to boot the player software. TFTP would only get you as far as the second kernel.

Besides, an NFS server is only (runs off to the source code) about 1000 lines of C/C++. It should be about half that with the .NET libraries.
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-- roger

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#222577 - 14/01/2003 14:59 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
Attached is the output from ethereal.

Thanks


Attachments
2808-sniffer.out (232 downloads)


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#222578 - 14/01/2003 15:03 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
Here is more info from the same ehtereal session


Attachments
2809-sniffer2.out (321 downloads)


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#222579 - 14/01/2003 16:32 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Hmmm

Well looking at the trace it is clear that the Receiver never attempts to contact the PC to download the second kernel (firmware).

Also, it looks to me as if the DHCP exchange isn't completing sucessfully. It definitely doesn't go through the same stages as on my network using the Rio DHCP server. Without digging out of the details of DHCP/BOOTP I can't be sure if it is failing DHCP, or just falling back to BOOTP.

Can we see a trace relying on the built in DHCP server in the Rio software, with the one on the router disabled ?

Also, if you post more traces can you save them in one of the formats that Ethereal can read them in again ? (that would make it easier to analyse them)
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#222580 - 14/01/2003 20:06 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
justDave
stranger

Registered: 31/03/2002
Posts: 16
It isn't .net, but if you need an nfs server to boot your rio, take a look at RioBoot here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jreceiver_user/files/.

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#222581 - 15/01/2003 05:35 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: justDave]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
I tried running that before. I get no response. The portmapper window displays nothing and the nfs server window displays "Starting NFS SERVER Starting MOUNT SERVER" and that is all.

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#222582 - 15/01/2003 07:00 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK


It wasn't being suggested as a solution to your problems, the thread wandered a bit there. I wouldn't help you anyway, your Receiver isn't getting as far as making any port mapper or nfs requests.
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#222583 - 15/01/2003 17:57 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
Here are some sniffer outputs. One with the router's dhcp on and one with the router's dhcp off. 192.168.1.101 is the IP of the receiver. 192.168.1.100 is my PC's IP. The Receiver Manager software's dhcp was on for the 2nd test with a IP range of 192.1681.101 to 192.1681.116.

Thanks for your help

I guess I have to post this twice for the second file...


Attachments
2820-sniffer_router_dhcp_on (344 downloads)


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#222584 - 15/01/2003 17:58 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
Router DHCP off attached...


Attachments
2821-sniffer_router_dhcp_off (242 downloads)


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#222585 - 16/01/2003 02:55 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: drewbitt]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
I'm stumped. It is clear from those traces that the DHCP transaction is working fine. The Receiver gets it's correct IP address and netmask.

For some reason that I can't fathom the Receiver never does the UDP broadcast to find the server.

The only other thing I can suggest trying is to turn off both DHCP servers, add an extra IP address to the PC in the 169.254.x.x range and let the Receiver fallback to pnp to set it's IP address. I doubt this is likely tom make any difference though.

Hopefully Roger can suggest something more useful. It's hard to imagine how this could be a hardware problem given that the Receiver is clearly functioning and talking to the network.
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#222586 - 16/01/2003 05:13 Re: Connecting to Win 2K... HELP!!! [Re: andy]
drewbitt
stranger

Registered: 07/01/2003
Posts: 21
The receiver worked fine on a friends PC so I don't think it's the receiver. I think I am going to re-install Win2K and see if that helps.

Thank you all for your help.

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