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#244103 - 15/12/2004 18:58 Debian AMD-64
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
Has anyone got any experience with the Debian AMD-64 project? Basically I'm wondering if it's worth trying to install, or just stick with 32 bit for now.

Will a 64 bit kernel work with a 32 bit distribution?

Thanks

Rob

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#244104 - 16/12/2004 16:31 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: rob]
pim
addict

Registered: 14/11/2000
Posts: 474
Loc: The Hague, the Netherlands
Quote:
Has anyone got any experience with the Debian AMD-64 project? Basically I'm wondering if it's worth trying to install, or just stick with 32 bit for now.


Can't comment on Debian, but I'm using Fedora Core 2 x86_64. Before that,
I used Fedora Core 2 i386 on the same hardware. I had to do a full install,
because there's no upgrade path from i386 to x86_64.

The biggest drawbacks I am experiencing is the lack of a Mozilla plugin
for Sun Java and the lack of a 64-bit Flash plugin. It's amazing how many
websites are totally useless if you don't support Flash.

Everything open source works fine. Oggenc is spectacularly faster
when compiled for x86_64.

Quote:
Will a 64 bit kernel work with a 32 bit distribution?


I would assume you need at least some tools that are 64-bit aware.
You can compile a 32-bit kernel that is optimised for the Athlon 64,
though. And you can run 32-bit code on a 64-bit distribution, provided
you have all the needed 32-bit libraries as well. In fact, OpenOffice is
distributed as a 32-bit application in 64-bit distibutions.

Pim

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#244105 - 16/12/2004 16:44 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: pim]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
Thanks, I'll give Fedora a try.

Rob

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#244106 - 17/12/2004 05:07 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: rob]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
I think the intent is that 64-bit kernels should normally be able to run any mix of 64/32 bit apps. But appropriate libraries are required for this to work.

Cheers

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#244107 - 17/12/2004 12:39 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: rob]
Memil
member

Registered: 03/02/2002
Posts: 101
Loc: Sweden
Gentoo for amd64 is running fine at home...

... and as they said, you can compile a program to 32bit libraries, ie. firefox so flash/java works.

/Fredrik

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#244108 - 17/12/2004 14:34 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: Memil]
pim
addict

Registered: 14/11/2000
Posts: 474
Loc: The Hague, the Netherlands
64-bit applications cannot use 32-bit libraries, so you'd need
to install a 32-bit version of Firefox/Mozilla in order to use
binary-only plugins.

Somehow I feel reluctant to do this.

Pim

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#244109 - 17/12/2004 15:56 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: pim]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Is 64-bit Linux useful for anything besides greater address space and its related benefits? If not, I can't see any disadvantage to having your browser be 32-bit. Heck, on Solaris, which has had 64-bit processors for years, almost everything is compiled 32-bit because there's just no need for the 64-bit address space, and there's a minor performance hit for running 64-bit binaries.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#244110 - 17/12/2004 16:21 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: wfaulk]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
mp3 encoders run faster as 64-bit apps.

Nowadays, 32-bits is no longer enough for a large address space, and more efficient paging mechanisms are facilitated by 64-bit addressing modes.

If all one is doing is running MS s/w, then don't bother. But for Linux, 64-bit sings!

Cheers

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#244111 - 17/12/2004 16:36 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: mlord]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Right. But I can't imagine that a browser, or any realistic browser plugin, would really benefit from 64-bit addressing. If you're using that much memory with your web browser, maybe you should start closing those windows for every page you visited over the last two years.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#244112 - 20/12/2004 18:59 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: wfaulk]
pim
addict

Registered: 14/11/2000
Posts: 474
Loc: The Hague, the Netherlands
It's not that I require my browser to be a native 64-bit application. It's just the fact that the browser that comes with the system is, and that I would need to install a 32-bit one manually.

And then I would need to install every library it needs, and use 32-bit plugins for everything. It would end in having two operating systems running in parallel, just because noone at Macromedia cares to type "make".

At least Sun is promising to deliver a 64-bit plugin (64-bit java is already there) as soon as Mozilla publish a reference 64-bit build of their browsers. Currently, there is none, as it is the distro companies that are doing the ports.

Pim

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#244113 - 20/12/2004 20:27 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: rob]
SuperQ
addict

Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
Yes.. I just recently installed the latest hd-install image on my dual opteron box.. install went flawlessly.

After installing, I pointed sources.list at:
deb http://debian-amd64.alioth.debian.org/gcc-3.4 sarge main contrib non-free

did a dist-upgrade, and installed all the software I wanted. It's been up for a week with no issues. I had to downgrade my kernel to 2.6.7 because of a minor bug in the USB code that crept into 2.6.8 that causes my USB2 external box to not work properly (fixed in 2.6.10pre, but i'm too lazy to compile that stuff) as soon as I'm done with the burner, i'm going back to 2.6.9.

I installed the system off a 512mb USB thumb drive, I can send you all the info on how I did it if you want.
_________________________
80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)

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#244114 - 20/12/2004 20:30 Re: Debian AMD-64 [Re: wfaulk]
SuperQ
addict

Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
If you use the gcc-3.4 compiler, there are a bunch of optimizations that go into the 64bit code, so it is very fast. I don't have any benchmark comparisions, but after installing Debian/amd64+gcc3.4 on my dual 2.0 opteron, it just feels f aster than the i386 version.
_________________________
80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)

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