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#263794 - 02/09/2005 03:06 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Hmmm, looks like our posts crossed in the night.
Interesting.

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#263795 - 02/09/2005 10:36 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: music]
Attack
addict

Registered: 01/03/2002
Posts: 598
Loc: Florida
I'm sure most of you here read /. but just incase you don't this guy is updating his blog from a datacenter in New Orleans. I happened to know about this before it his /. as this datacenter hosts the server for somethingawful.com and I like to read the TV/Anime/Car forums that they have.

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#263796 - 02/09/2005 10:43 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: music]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Check out this interview that WWL did with Mayor Nagin yesterday which is AMAZING:

MP3
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#263797 - 02/09/2005 11:12 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4172
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
Check out this interview

OMFG. That is incredible.

Peter

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#263798 - 02/09/2005 11:46 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: peter]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
Wow, that's a hell of an interview. "We should have a moritorium on press conferences." Indeed.

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#263799 - 02/09/2005 11:54 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: DWallach]
CrackersMcCheese
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2489
Wooo - Nagin for President!

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#263800 - 02/09/2005 12:14 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: CrackersMcCheese]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3810
And all the more prescient when you read the NYT article on Bush heading down to tour the area.

Quote:
Mr. Bush will head first to Mobile, Ala., where he is expected to participate in a press briefing on the hurricane damage, according to his press schedule. Afterward, he will fly over Mobile to Biloxi, Miss., where he will participate in a walking tour of damaged neighborhoods.

The president will then view the Mississippi coastline by plane, en route to New Orleans, La., where he will land at Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport. There, he is expected to issue a statement on the government's recovery efforts.


The NYT quotes Nagin from the same interview:

Quote:
"They were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people. I'm like you got to be kidding me - this is a national disaster," he said. "Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get them moving to New Orleans. That's them thinking small, man. This is a major, major, major deal. I can't emphasize that enough man, this is crazy."


The one thing that I don't get: there's a refrain of the feds not doing enough. There's nothing stopping the local officials from calling Greyhound.

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#263801 - 02/09/2005 14:10 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: jimhogan]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
In fairness, I am not always sure what to expect of some elements of our federal government, diminished and underfunded or not. How big is FEMA? How many full time staff would it take to *really* take on Katrina's aftermath aggressively? Are we willing to pay for another 50,000 FEMA staffers who hang out between disasters? Hey, maybe we could cross-train them with the TSA!


It's about priorities, Jim. FEMA has lost its cabinet-level status, and is now withering away and dying underneath the DHS umbrella. At a time when money for "Homeland Security"* is flowing like the very water that's caused so much anguish, it is scheduled to lose its disaster relief role entirely. And, despite the fact that a hurricane hitting New Orleans was #3 on FEMA's list of threats to our country (the #1 being their dead-on prediction of a terrorist attack on NY), funding for the SELA project to refurbish the levies has been consistently gutted.

Now, if anyone thinks this is Monday morning quarterbacking, and why weren't people up in arms about these issues before, the simple fact is our Government is there to be right about these things. I don't believe they're infallible, regardless of what side of the isle they're on. But the thing that absolutely infuriates me is when beaureaucrats ignore, dismiss, and in many cases cover up the things that their subordinates are uncovering because it doesn't fit their agenda. Do I believe that securing our cities, airports, seaports, etc. from terrorist attack needed to get more funding? Of course. But to totally put all of your eggs in the terrorism basket and ignore the "sh*t happens" principle is an absolute deriliction of the responsibility we entrust our leaders with.

Quote:

This would have been very, very bad in any event -- think of the thousands of people who are now homeless. Good grief, what are the thousands of people who escaped doing? Where are they sleeping? But so much more disheartening -- complete inability of the bureaucracy to even begin to offer some solace to most prominent concentrations of tragedy. The convention center, for example. I didn't see people there beating up or shooting reporters. I saw a bunch of overheated, tired, poor people screaming "Help!"



The scariest part about this is that, with a few exceptions, the response to this situation is a good indicator of our preparedness to respond to a terrorist attack. Suppose this were a suitcase nuke instead of a hurricane. The physical results may vary, but the net effect is dead people, refugees, and mass chaos. With the *staggering* amount of money that's been poured into these things, I would think that 4 years after 9/11 our response would be better, even if you grant them the flawed assertion that this was "unpredictable" and "unprecedented."
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#263802 - 02/09/2005 14:22 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4172
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
Check out this interview

Partial transcript here -- but I really recommend listening to the whole thing.

Edit: And if CNN really think that's an "expletive-laced" interview, they need to get out more.

Peter

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#263803 - 02/09/2005 14:30 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
I again feel there is decency left to discuss this in human terms and leave politics out


"Human terms" is exactly what makes the politics of this situation so important. After we all gasp at the horror of the situation, talk about how sad it is, make donations to the charity of our choice, and pray to our chosen deities for the safety and comfort of those affected, what's left to do?

If, by "politics," you mean partisan politics, I can assure you that I would immediately sing the praises of any Republican who showed the requisite leadership to address this crisis. And I've taken much delight in the media's lambasting of do-nothing Democrats like Mary Landrieu. In fact, the astute observer will remember that I've carried the water for this administration in the past when I thought they were right. I don't care what side of the aisle you're on, your job is to protect our nation from EVERY conceivable threat, not just ones that originate from Muslim extremists.

If this discussion has become too shrill for you to participate, I understand. But please refrain from impuning the "decency" of those who, after the initial shock of the situation has begun to wear off, decide that decisions our government makes or doesn't make are directly relevant to the Hell on Earth that we see on our TV sets.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#263804 - 02/09/2005 14:38 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
Check out this interview that WWL did with Mayor Nagin yesterday which is AMAZING:

MP3


Bravo! You simply cannot fake the outrage and exasperation with which he speaks. He is directly reflecting the pain of the people he represents, and the helpless situation he finds himself in without any coordination at the federal level.

As to Dan's question about why he can't simply call up Greyhound.. Imagine if he and the mayors of Biloxi, Gulfport, and dozens of other little towns are all calling Greyhound asking for buses. That's already happened with the evacuation to the Astrodome. However, to get more, the feds have to get involved, because every other mayor and state rep is calling Greyhound up asking for those same buses. In a disaster that affects several states and hundreds of municipalities, you simply can't have every mayor and councilman taking what they can get their hands on. You need coordination, which is what FEMA's job is (or was.)
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#263805 - 02/09/2005 14:44 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: peter]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Quote:
Edit: And if CNN really think that's an "expletive-laced" interview, they need to get out more.


Pssst! This is America. We censor the cuss words out of "Saving Private Ryan" when it airs, even if we leave the violence in.
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#263806 - 02/09/2005 14:58 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: tonyc]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Quote:
In fairness, I am not always sure what to expect of some elements of our federal government, diminished and underfunded or not. ....


It's about priorities, Jim. FEMA has lost its cabinet-level status, and is now withering away and dying underneath the DHS umbrella. At a time when money for "Homeland Security"* is flowing like the very water that's caused so much anguish, it is scheduled to lose its disaster relief role entirely. And, despite the fact that a hurricane hitting New Orleans was #3 on FEMA's list of threats to our country (the #1 being their dead-on prediction of a terrorist attack on NY), funding for the SELA project to refurbish the levies has been consistently gutted.

Tony, I am your straight man.

I say "in fairness" because I always want to recognize (in my wishy-washy way) that allocation of these types of resources is a risk-benefit calculation and that there is always the possibility of an event occuring that will outstrip allocated resources and planning. I hate to say it, but...hurricane season isn't over.

Possible apologies to Brad here, but I agree with everything you say. And you can look to my sig to where I think all bucks stop. That doesn't mean blame for SELA can't be laid at the doorstep of previous administrations. Right now, though, somebody else has the ball.

My main point, though, was not to emphasize blame in my post but just to say that, whatever else you may think about SELA, global warming, or anything else, the response to Katrina given the phenomenally excellent meteorological intelligence, was woefully inadequate. This situation has become not just a tragedy but a disgrace.

Quote:
Now, if anyone thinks this is Monday morning quarterbacking, and why weren't people up in arms about these issues before, the simple fact is our Government is there to be right about these things. I don't believe they're infallible, regardless of what side of the isle they're on. But the thing that absolutely infuriates me is when beaureaucrats ignore, dismiss, and in many cases cover up the things that their subordinates are uncovering because it doesn't fit their agenda. Do I believe that securing our cities, airports, seaports, etc. from terrorist attack needed to get more funding? Of course. But to totally put all of your eggs in the terrorism basket and ignore the "sh*t happens" principle is an absolute deriliction of the responsibility we entrust our leaders with.

I think I am again your straight man again. I completely agree.

I will tell you one little problem I have:

I can't argue with various CNN reporters and others in electronic media raising the alarm and trying to help the rest of us understand how bad things are. But it strikes me how bold and righteous they are when Shrub's approval rating is, what 35%? Where were the bold reporters of CNN in 2002? I'm sorry, I'm glad they're doing what they're doing, but they still suck. This coming from somebody who probably would kick Shrub if I found him lying down.

Now Nagin I'll listen to.

Quote:

The scariest part about this is that, with a few exceptions, the response to this situation is a good indicator of our preparedness to respond to a terrorist attack. Suppose this were a suitcase nuke instead of a hurricane. The physical results may vary, but the net effect is dead people, refugees, and mass chaos. With the *staggering* amount of money that's been poured into these things, I would think that 4 years after 9/11 our response would be better, even if you grant them the flawed assertion that this was "unpredictable" and "unprecedented."


Homeland Security. When in doubt, reorganize. Makes it look we're accomplishing something.

Sigh. Coffee break's over. Gotta go back to work.

edit: and I *won't* grant them that assertion.


Edited by jimhogan (02/09/2005 15:44)
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#263807 - 02/09/2005 15:31 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: jimhogan]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Quote:
Now Nagin I'll listen to.


Who's going do the first "Nagin for President" T-shirts?

pca
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#263808 - 02/09/2005 16:03 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: jimhogan]
Mataglap
enthusiast

Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
One of the reasons that goverments and the current administration needs to pay attention to issues like this in advance is the mid- and long-range secondary and tertiary consequences of a natural disaster. What happened in New Orleans was not a surprise.

Here's a Washington Post article about some of the very real consquences of Katrina beyond the obvious.

Quote:
  • on coffee, which relies on the crippled port of New Orleans and its vast coffee warehouses
  • Import prices for steel and tropical fruit, much of which flowed through Louisiana's ports, are also likely to spike
  • oysters, four in 10 of which come from the waters off Louisiana
  • price spikes for asphalt, roofing materials, plastic pipe, insulation, metals and concrete
  • grain prices fell on word that harvests cannot be sent by barge down the Mississippi River for export
  • Delivery firms such as DHL, United Parcel Service and Federal Express informed customers yesterday they would add surcharges of between 5 and 15 percent
  • The premium that refiners charge to turn oil into jet fuel has shot from $3 a barrel at the beginning of the year to $25, pushing the effective price of a barrel of oil to around $95 for the already ailing airlines
  • Airlines and attendant businesses such as car rental companies employ 10 million, and account for 8 percent of the U.S economy
  • More than half the chemical industry's capacity to make alpha olefins -- a key ingredient in shampoo -- is in Louisiana
  • Nearly half of the ethylene glycol -- used to make polyester -- comes from the region
  • Roughly 12 billion pounds a year of ethylene capacity, about 20 percent of the nation's total, is shut down or operating at very reduced rates
  • Dow Chemical Co. in Midland, Mich., said that with a key plant in St. Charles, La., still closed, the firm has now run out of propylene oxide, used in products from sportswear to detergents to engine coolants. The plant will remain shuttered for weeks



We live in a complicated interconnected world, and our goverment needs to understand it and behave in a way that acknowledges it. The current administration doesn't, isn't, and refuses to acknowledge facts. They are not "reality-based"*.

*Remember that gem from a quotation in an October 17 New York Times article by Ron Suskind quoting an unnamed aide to the (current) President.

Quote:
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

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#263809 - 02/09/2005 17:02 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Quote:
CNN is really hammering how f'ed up the response has been and asking good questions.... at least Cafferty is. "What role did race and class play in the Crisis"? I've been asking this myself.... and i say A LOT.

Laura Bush has just been asked that (actually, what impression would world get seeng that virtually all of late evacuees are black) on CNN (from Cajundome in Lafayette). She more or less pretended not to understand. When pressed, she mumbled something about poorest people always taking hardest hit.

Edit: Dubya was next. All he said, grinning as usual, was that there are thousands of soldiers trained as military police coming to N.O. At least the general leading the Katrina joint task force sounded as if he knew his priorities.


Edited by bonzi (02/09/2005 17:07)
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Q#5196 MkII #080000376, 18GB green MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue

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#263810 - 02/09/2005 18:03 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: tonyc]
Gallagher419
journeyman

Registered: 14/12/2004
Posts: 95
I'm not surprised that this is turning into a racial issue! People should remember that New Orleans is around 67% black so yes most of the people stranded are black. Instead of crying about race why don't people ask why those who are stranded why they stayed? Everyone was warned well ahead of time to get out yet it seems that most people chose to ignore those warnings and we now have what we have down there. Don't get me wrong I don't like to see people suffer but if some officials are warning me to evacuate I'm evacuating. I just don't understand why so many did not heed the warnings.

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#263811 - 02/09/2005 18:13 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Gallagher419]
Mataglap
enthusiast

Registered: 11/06/2003
Posts: 384
True, there are those who simply refused to go, but there are also a lot of people so poor that they simply couldn't afford to leave and don't have anywhere to go. Plus, if you remember, there was no way to physically get everyone out of town anyway.

Just because some official says something, it doesn't mean it's actually possible.

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#263812 - 02/09/2005 18:31 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: pca]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4172
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
Who's going do the first "Nagin for President" T-shirts?

Someone really should. You could have "Nagin for President" and his picture on the front, and "They're feeding the public a line of bull, and they're spinning, and people are dying down here" on the back.

One way or another, you see a lot of terrible things on television news over the years: in the former Yugoslavia, in Tiananmen, in Iraq. And I'm ashamed to say (though I guess it's only natural) that when they're in the news a part of me says "Well, that's the former Yugoslavia" (sorry Bonzi), "Well, that's Tiananmen", "Well, that's Iraq". But I've walked down Canal Street, along Riverwalk past the Convention Center, right through the backdrop of these events. I mean, I was only in New Orleans as a tourist for a week or so, but it's a great city and I've got great affection for it. And this week on those streets I've walked down, armed mobs have been shaking down hospitals for their food and water. And in that city people I'll have mingled with on Garden District streets, people I'll have been on the streetcar with, have this week been re-enacting the Black Hole of Calcutta, only with two hundred times as many people, and, this time, instigated by their own side. No first-world country treats their citizens like that. No third-world country treats their citizens like that. Heck, no third-world country treats their cattle like that.

You've got category 3 levees versus a category 4 hurricane. The levees were going to fail. And even if officials couldn't foresee, at the moment the levees failed, that widespread lawlessness might result from 100,000 poverty-stricken people with no food or water but a reasonable number of guns, it had already become pretty clear to any viewer of CNN by the end of Tuesday. Troops wanted deploying then, buses wanted lining up then (Houston's 350 miles away, you can organise the shelters while the buses are already moving), every rescue-capable helicopter in the continental United States wanted deploying then. Hundreds of squalid, awful deaths would have been averted.

I'm shocked and angered by the whole thing.

Peter

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#263813 - 02/09/2005 18:55 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: peter]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Quote:
Check out this interview

OMFG. That is incredible.

Peter




Quote:
AP - Thu Sep 1, 4:15 PM ET
An aerial view of flooded school buses in a lot, Thursday, Sept. 1, 2005, in New Orleans, LA. The flood is a result of Hurricane Katrina that passed through the area last Monday.(AP Photo/Phil Coale)


link


Why didn't mayor Nagin deploy these buses when the mandatory evacuation was ordered?

All he's doing is complaining that no one else can think of a solution, yet he has none of his own. Of all people, the mayor of New Orleans should have been prepared for this day more than anyone else. It just sounds like he's ranting and raving, but has no plans or ideas... that's not great leadership. In fact, it sounds like he's completely out of the loop as far as rescuing his city goes.

Sorry, but the mayor sounds like the typical welfare recipients who voted him into office. He contributes nothing while he complains that someone else can't do enough for him.


PS - On a side note, I'm new to the riocar, and these forums look like the best source of info i've been able to find on the net. Thanks.

Billy


Edited by Billy (02/09/2005 19:04)

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#263814 - 02/09/2005 20:00 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
g_attrill
old hand

Registered: 14/04/2002
Posts: 1172
Loc: Hants, UK
Quote:
Check out this interview that WWL did with Mayor Nagin yesterday which is AMAZING:

MP3


That link is dead but here is another a working one (akamai so nice and fast).

Gareth

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#263815 - 02/09/2005 20:05 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Gallagher419]
ninti
old hand

Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 868
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
I'm not surprised that this is turning into a racial issue!


Oh, I think it was anyway. I don't usually quote Jerry Springer, but he a good point when he said "If there were young, white women holed up in the Superdome, do you think they would be starving, thirsty and dying?"

Quote:
Instead of crying about race why don't people ask why those who are stranded why they stayed?


Ok, let's play a little game. Imagine you are poor. Not just low on money and can't make it to the ATM today, but actually dirt poor. You have a shitty minimum-wage job with which you have a hard time making ends meet from day-to-day, and are not always sure you will be able to afford a place to stay or to eat tomorrow. You have no car because cars cost a lot of money, no extra money to pay for a hotel someplace, no out-of-town family to stay with. I know it's hard to do, but imagine it.

Ok, now they order you to evacuate. You have 50 bucks in your pocket. What are you going to do? How are you going to get out? Where are you going to stay? What the hell are you going to do? Let's hear your options.

Hey, I didn't say it was a fun game.


Edited by ninti (02/09/2005 20:23)
_________________________
Ninti - MK IIa 60GB Smoke, 30GB, 10GB

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#263816 - 02/09/2005 20:29 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ninti]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:


Ok, let's play a little game. Imagine you are poor. Not just low on money and can't make it to the ATM today, but actually dirt poor. You have a [censored] minimum-wage job with which you have a hard time making ends meet from day-to-day, and are not always sure you will be able to afford a place to stay or to eat tomorrow. You have no car because cars cost a lot of money, no extra money to pay for a hotel someplace, no out-of-town family to stay with. I know it's hard to do, but imagine it.

Ok, now they order you to evacuate. You have 50 bucks in your pocket. What are you going to do? How are you going to get out? Where are you going to stay? What the hell are you going to do. Let's hear your options.


It's very tragic and they don't deserve to face such a disaster, but you must remember that you reap what you sow. Here's an article that sums it up very well in my opinion: tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026

Some important points:
Quote:


There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.


Quote:
What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.


Maybe Springer should ask "if this happened in Idaho, would armed gangs be looting, murdering, raping, and attacking search and rescue teams?" Face it, this anarchy wouldn't happen in a 'red' county, and Orleans parish looks to be solidly 'blue': http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/LA/P/00/map.html

Billy

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#263817 - 02/09/2005 20:30 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ninti]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:


Ok, let's play a little game. Imagine you are poor. Not just low on money and can't make it to the ATM today, but actually dirt poor. You have a shitty minimum-wage job with which you have a hard time making ends meet from day-to-day, and are not always sure you will be able to afford a place to stay or to eat tomorrow. You have no car because cars cost a lot of money, no extra money to pay for a hotel someplace, no out-of-town family to stay with. I know it's hard to do, but imagine it.

Ok, now they order you to evacuate. You have 50 bucks in your pocket. What are you going to do? How are you going to get out? Where are you going to stay? What the hell are you going to do? Let's hear your options.

Hey, I didn't say it was a fun game.


BTW, I'm just curious, do you believe in Darwinism or Creationism? Just curious.

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#263818 - 02/09/2005 20:35 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Quote:
if this happened in Idaho, would armed gangs be looting, murdering, raping, and attacking search and rescue teams?

Maybe you're not familiar with the Idaho militias who pretty much do this regardless of natural disasters.

Quote:
Face it, this anarchy wouldn't happen in a "red" county

This is absurd. I'm one (additional) troll away from banning your newly created account. Your name's not actually "Paul", is it?


Edited by wfaulk (02/09/2005 20:36)
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#263819 - 02/09/2005 20:42 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: wfaulk]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
Is Paul Dutch?

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#263820 - 02/09/2005 20:46 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Daria]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Yeah, I saw that, but doesn't utwente have some sort of open access?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#263821 - 02/09/2005 20:47 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: wfaulk]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3937
Loc: Providence, RI
Quote:
Yeah, I saw that, but doesn't utwente have some sort of open access?


Hm. Could be. I have no idea, actually.

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#263822 - 02/09/2005 20:53 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: wfaulk]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Quote:
if this happened in Idaho, would armed gangs be looting, murdering, raping, and attacking search and rescue teams?

Maybe you're not familiar with the Idaho militias who pretty much do this regardless of natural disasters.

Quote:
Face it, this anarchy wouldn't happen in a "red" county

This is absurd. I'm one (additional) troll away from banning your newly created account. Your name's not actually "Paul", is it?


Hmm, I've never heard of this type of thing happening in Idaho. Perhaps they do have militias - I don't know - but I'm not aware of any disasters, riots, or eruptions of anarchy. Can you provide a link? I'm talking about a hypothetical situation to illustrate a point. When people own something that they've worked for, they usually don't destroy it further in a time of crisis. When people have nothing, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and a crisis only gives them that opportunity. My point about red and blue is that the 'have-nots' are usually very reliant on the state, which is a staple of the 'blue' side.

I don't know how are why you are assuming what my name is or that I'm a troll. I'm just another person with an opinion. Everyone has their own. If your opinion differs from mine, and if in your view that makes me a troll, then if you have the power to ban me from this site, then so be it. I suppose you don't like the free exchange of ideas, and if that is indeed the case, then I'm sorry I joined your site to offer my humble view of the situation. Everyone's view is different... you don't have to agree with them all...

Billy

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#263823 - 02/09/2005 20:56 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Daria]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Is Paul Dutch?


Good question. There are many dutch Pauls here

But I'm afraid I'm not your guy.

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