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#263854 - 03/09/2005 21:01 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3212
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:
I might not like some things Bush does, but I can't see how he is responsible for this natural disaster.

That's right, Bush is not responsible for the natural disaster. He is however, responsible for making sure that the country is adequately prepared for a natural disaster, not to mention allocating funds and developing programs to mitigate the disastrousness of any potential disaster before it strikes. Contingency plans. Heard of 'em? Good leaders are supposed to have them.

Quote:
You should cut the man some slack, he is your president.

[censored], this country has done nothing but cut him slack since he swore the oath and took office... as Governor of Texas. It's about time that the country stop cutting him slack, and start pointing out what a miserable failure the man really is, and has been.

What kind of president continues his vacation another two days before surveying the damage from one of the most powerful storms to ever hit the US, and meeting the affected people to offer some words of support?

And it took another day or two to pledge any support at all. This is a guy that has a big plane fly him around at a moments notice. They knew this storm was the biggest storm to hit the US in years. They predicted it was a cat 5 storm. Why the hell wasn't he on standby? It's not like this storm was some sort of surprise -- they tracked the damn thing across the Gulf. Where was he? This is his job, and he sure as hell wasn't doing it.

[censored] that.

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#263855 - 03/09/2005 21:50 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: canuckInOR]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
I'm not a violent person, but if I hear one more person say it's the fault of those who didn't get out that they have been neglected and starving for 4-5 DAYS after this disaster, I'm going to punch them in the fucking face. How arrogant can you possibly be? How lacking in any sort of empathy can you possibly be? How can you look at video of a mother holding a child that is dying of dehydration and tell her to her face she deserved it??! And on top of that that it's her fault she's poor?!

It's the governments responsibility to protect the life and health of it's citizens. If you take that attitude and take it to it's end then you'd advocate that we leave the elderly to die... that we leave those who have ZERO dollars in their pocket to die. But I guess they could have walked to Baton Rouge eh? Or maybe wheeled themselves? If you want to ask the question of why transportation wasn't provided to those in need, hey I'm all for it, but don't take such a pompous out of touch stance in front of me.

I have family who've lost everything they own. They've lost their CITY. And they are amongst the lucky ones. They had a CAR and MONEY and FAMILY to get out.

(not directed at canuckInLA)

edit:
read this: diary of EMT in NOLA
and this: quick breakdown from someone who DECIDED to stay.
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#263856 - 04/09/2005 00:13 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Just talked to my Mom... my cousin who is NOPD finally checked in, said he had to shoot someone who drew a gun on him today. They are giving him a 3 DAY leave. A lot of cops are just walking away, quitting. Two of his sergeants COMMITTED SUICIDE because they couldn't deal with it. The first hand reports of rapes and murders and child molestations are only beginning to break the surface. Tens of thousands of people have witnessed things that most soldiers never see. How are they going to mentally deal with this? It's just never ending. I'm so angry and helpless. Going to be looking for flights home tomorrow.
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#263857 - 04/09/2005 00:32 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Quote:

I think some people just don't like George Bush, and anything bad that happens in the world gives them an opportunity to somehow lay the blame on him.

Billy


If you don't think he is partially to blame, go look up his job definition. Commander in Chief last I looked. You see... that's the way the entire structure works... the guy at the top is responsible for everyone below him. I don't care if Kerry was in there, if this is what happened, he'd be responsible. This isn't a retarded Democrat v. Republican bunch of tripe, everyone in power holds responsibility. You can spin it however you want. It doesn't change direct factual involvement in policy decisions that led to the multiple horrible outcomes.
_________________________
|| loren ||

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#263858 - 04/09/2005 06:27 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
Anonymous
Unregistered


One part of the culture of New Orleans was crime, murder, and the life of a thug. The vast majority (not all) of the people who stayed behind were the welfare and criminal class whose role models were Tupac, C-Murder, and other thugs.

When a white person can't walk down the streets of a black neighborhood without fear of being shot, it's no surprise that no one is shedding a tear for them. It's a disgrace that the NG and police have to be armed with M-16's to rescue these people. They came to help, not to fight a war.

This isn't racism. It's the hard truth. If you want to see racism, drive to the blackest and poorest Detroit neighborhood you can find, and ask them what they think of white people. I'll be surprised if you come out alive.

Politicians and officials should be blamed for late action or inadequate planning, but you can't blame them for the anarchy in NO that has hampered the rescue. You can't help people who refuse to help themselves.


Edited by Billy (04/09/2005 06:30)

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#263859 - 04/09/2005 07:41 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ]
mcomb
pooh-bah

Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
Quote:
You can't help people who refuse to help themselves.

Dude, please learn to show some empathy or find another board to express your views. Thousands of people are dieing here. It doesn't matter if they were warned, had a chance to get out, where told to leave, whatever. The time for that is passed and now it is time to do what we can to take care of those who didn't leave, regardless of their reasons and regardless of your political slant. We are talking about people stuck in a hellish situation that many of us can't really imagine and have no idea how we would cope with. This is not the time to chastise them for being poor or black.

There is politics that can and should be discussed in regards to this situation, but please don't blame the people trapped in this catastrophe for it.

-Mike
_________________________
EmpMenuX - ext3 filesystem - Empeg iTunes integration

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#263860 - 04/09/2005 08:08 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Quote:
the welfare and criminal class

Here we go again: jobless = criminal

Quote:
blackest and poorest Detroit neighborhood

Of course, Blacks are poor by choice, right? Their ancestors also came to America by choice.

BTW, when showing us web sources explaining the true roots of this, you forgot to mention that all this mess is doing of DNC, ACLU and UN!

_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Q#5196 MkII #080000376, 18GB green MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue

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#263861 - 04/09/2005 08:31 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: loren]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
Ugh, Loren, I realy do hope your folks will emerge from this in one piece, physically and phycologically.

Again, this is totally surreal!
_________________________
Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Q#5196 MkII #080000376, 18GB green MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue

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#263862 - 04/09/2005 08:37 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: bonzi]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:


BTW, when showing us web sources explaining the true roots of this, you forgot to mention that all this mess is doing of DNC, ACLU and UN!




I thought it was the doing of Bush?

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#263863 - 04/09/2005 11:06 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: bonzi]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings.

Agreed. I hope that Loren's family, Stu's family, Lectric's, and everyone else are able to come out of this as well as can be expected.

If there is anything that can be done to help out, post the request on the board. If we can help to send people to Amersfoort or arrange international curry deliveries, I am sure we can help out on a more personal level than just the ARC or America's Second Harvest (my charity of choice).

As for the politicians and the political debates, discussions of responsibility, accusations of racism or of economic discrimiation, who to blame, etc. - I am sure there will be plenty of time after everyone is safe and people's lives are stabilized to congratulate each other, provide spin, debate "should have / would have / could have" and point fingers. For now, politicians who whould be directly involved should get to [censored] work! If the politicians are not directly involved, then get out of the way and let those who should be working do their jobs! The debate right now is a distraction and a delay to those who need help now.

Sorry. I have heard a few too many debates on this in the news lately. I prefer to think, perhaps incorrectly, that it was a combination of the severity of the disaster combined with the chaos of the sitation and destruction of communication, roads and infrastructure compounded by mistakes or miscommunications on the part of local, city, county, state, federal and executive governments and agencies that have probably not slept a night since before the storm hit that made a lot of this worst than it should have been than some dastardly plot to deliberately withhold aid in a bit to secretly perform ethnic, political or economic cleansing on a targeted population.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#263864 - 04/09/2005 12:09 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: pgrzelak]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
Hey guys, I'm alive. I actually live in Kenner, outside of NO. I am CURRENTLY living in my office as my house is still flooded. Working as part of the government through this lends a different perspective of what's going on. For the record, then National Guard WAS deployed before the storm hit. I have become friends with our contingent here as is bound to happen to people when they are living under these conditions. Unfortunately, the NG was intended to be here on a humanitarian effort only. They were not planning on needing ANYTHING like they need now. Despite what is being reported, I have seen massive federal aid coming in. For a long while it was more than our airport could handle. Our government is not holding out on us, it as just caught ith its pants down.
Also, communications here are a complete nightmare. We cannot make phone calls out from here. We can only recieve some phone calls. This will vastly slow response time.
One thing I am grateful for is that I have no access to TV. I don't think I could handle atching hat is going on. 2 police officers here commited suicide last night as a result of the stress. I know of 5 other people personally who did the same because they couldn't take it.
Yesterday I was assigned to escort our media person to the media trucks. I had to see first hand the destruction in Orleans Parish. The pictures you are seeing are still likely current. As of last night, the water is still past the rooflines of all the homes I saw. I also had to go to the airport. I can't describe the suffering I've seen. Ya'll, please, we need your support. Forget about placing blame for now, please. We need your efforts to be used in a better manner. Understand, we have FEMA and police and firefighters being fired upon while they're trying to help save people. I just recieved word that the police chief of NO committed suicide. Still a rumor at this point, but unfortunately a believeable one.

As to the numbers of people dying, the initial estimates are ranging from 15-20 thousand, but that number will surely rise as more people are found trapped in their attics and drowned and further still from the disease that is sure to come.

I'm trying but words fail to describe what horror I'm being witness to. My access is very spotty, but I'll try and give updates when I can.

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#263865 - 04/09/2005 12:15 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: lectric]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Quote:
Hey guys, I'm alive.
Thanks for the update. I've been worried about you since your last post. It's good to know you're alive and holding up, and thanks for the update about how things are going on the ground. Of all the noise being thrown about the internet and telivision, yours is a voice I know I can trust. My wife and I will continue to pray for you.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#263866 - 04/09/2005 12:20 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: lectric]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
As to showing empathy for the people trapped here, it's getting harder for me to do for a certain element. There are thousands upon thousands who cannot afford to evacuate. There are also thousands who stayed because we've been through this a thousand times, and it's never been like this. Finally, there are thousands who chose to stay to take advantage of the city's vulnerability. I wouldn't mind terribly if the last group was rounded and marched into the ocean. They are the ones responsible the evacuation tragedy that is happening now. There are still FAAAAR more honest people trapped here than criminals, unfortunately, it just takes a few criminals to cause they pullout of relief crews.

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#263867 - 04/09/2005 13:10 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: lectric]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
It is good to hear you are okay for now. Hang in there!

Edit: Looking at the map / pin system from the other thread, Kenner looks like it escaped most if not all of the flooding, but has a bit of wind damage.

Edit 2: Wow. Knowing Lectric's name from his public BBS user information, I was able to internet search, got a possible address, found out where it was on Google Maps and cross referenced it with the Katrina Map. The good news is that there does not look like there was any flooding in this area, except for isolated reports (less than one inch, already gone) the next street over. There were a few people asking for information, but the reports seemed to show all was mostly dry. The bad news is that this is really, really scary from a Big Brother paranoia front...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#263868 - 04/09/2005 13:22 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: lectric]
Laura
pooh-bah

Registered: 16/06/2000
Posts: 1682
Loc: Greenhills, Ohio
Let us know how we can help the most.
_________________________
Laura

MKI #017/90

whatever

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#263869 - 04/09/2005 13:46 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: Laura]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I am personally thinking in two waves at the moment: first, right now with the major charities (ARC, ASH, etc.); second, when folks have a chance to return to their homes (or what is left of them) and helping more local charities - churches, hospitals, libraries, individuals, etc.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#263870 - 04/09/2005 19:43 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ]
ninti
old hand

Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 868
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
One part of the culture of New Orleans was crime, murder, and the life of a thug. The vast majority (not all) of the people who stayed behind were the welfare and criminal class whose role models were Tupac, C-Murder, and other thugs.


You, sir, are an ignorant, racist, cold-hearted, callous, evil, soulless shell of a man. I wish that I believed that true Karma really existed so you would find yourself in these people's shoes one day.


lectric, I'm glad your OK man. Stay safe and sane, I'm sorry you have to be there for this.

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#263871 - 04/09/2005 19:51 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ninti]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
Hey, cool it guys. Billy was mostly just stating what public officials and other people on the spot are saying.

There's some real scum with guns and drugs in NO, and it would be very tempting to just leave them there until they starved to death.

Except there is/were a lot of innocent people-of-no-means there too.

Cheers

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#263872 - 04/09/2005 23:28 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: mlord]
ninti
old hand

Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 868
Loc: Los Angeles
That actually was cool, you don't want to see what I wrote and erased before writing that. The guy is scum, and he should take his racist ignorant mean-spirited trolling somewhere else. I know there is an unwritten rule to be nice around here, but come on, this guy doesn't deserve any of that.


Edited by ninti (04/09/2005 23:44)
_________________________
Ninti - MK IIa 60GB Smoke, 30GB, 10GB

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#263873 - 05/09/2005 00:51 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: pgrzelak]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
Quote:
It is good to hear you are okay for now. Hang in there!

Edit: Looking at the map / pin system from the other thread, Kenner looks like it escaped most if not all of the flooding, but has a bit of wind damage.

Edit 2: Wow. Knowing Lectric's name from his public BBS user information, I was able to internet search, got a possible address, found out where it was on Google Maps and cross referenced it with the Katrina Map. The good news is that there does not look like there was any flooding in this area, except for isolated reports (less than one inch, already gone) the next street over. There were a few people asking for information, but the reports seemed to show all was mostly dry. The bad news is that this is really, really scary from a Big Brother paranoia front...

It looks like the pin map is gone now.
_________________________
Glenn

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#263874 - 05/09/2005 01:24 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: gbeer]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Works for me.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#263875 - 05/09/2005 01:44 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: wfaulk]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2665
Loc: Manteca, California
http://www.scipionus.com/ right?

All I get is a note from the web host saying that there is no website configured at the address. Cleared the cache. Same same.

Edit: 11PM; Ok now must have been a temporary thing.


Edited by gbeer (05/09/2005 04:01)
_________________________
Glenn

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#263876 - 05/09/2005 02:30 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: pgrzelak]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
Wow, I'll be passing that info out NOW.. Very cool web site. Unfortunately, although you likely were looking at my house, I do, in fact, have 2" of water currently standing in it. But after visiting N.O. proper, I could really give a schit. I'll replace the missing parts of my home. Many many people have no home to rebuild anymore, and if they do, it's likely so contaminated by the toxic sludge it will never be inhabitable again, they will have to start from scratch.

As to what Billie was saying, he is, unfortunately, right. It is a simple fact that when I was at the airport, working my way through a festering mass of people, I was able to walk pretty much anywhere I wanted because of one fact. I was white. I, too, haven't showered in 6 days, hair dissheveled, was wearing a nasty old t-shirt. I COULD go wherever I want since I have a badge from the mayor's office, but I was never required to show it. Call it profiling if you like, but understand, our cops are over 50% black in New Orleans. Hard to accuse them of racism, just that they know reality. That is absolutely not to say that all blacks are criminal, far from it. Or that no whites are. I know better. But the ratio here is undeniable. (By the way, our mayor is black and he is constantly talking about the problem of black on black crime as one of the major problems here).

One bit of good news. The National Guard is here in full force, and looting has been all but stopped. They have now started opening fire on looters and have killed at least fifteen today. This is a good thing as the looters are the ones preventing emergency workers from doing their jobs. So, the less looters there are, the more lives can be saved.

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#263877 - 05/09/2005 02:54 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: lectric]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Hey guys, I'm alive. I actually live in Kenner, outside of NO. I am CURRENTLY living in my office as my house is still flooded. Working as part of the government through this lends a different perspective of what's going on.

Hey, lectric, you Louisiana Republican! It is very excellent to read your post here. And I mean that. There is so much 2nd and 3rd hand information.
Quote:
For the record, then National Guard WAS deployed before the storm hit. I have become friends with our contingent here as is bound to happen to people when they are living under these conditions. Unfortunately, the NG was intended to be here on a humanitarian effort only. They were not planning on needing ANYTHING like they need now. Despite what is being reported, I have seen massive federal aid coming in. For a long while it was more than our airport could handle. Our government is not holding out on us, it as just caught ith its pants down.

What I have to say comes from an unaffected citizen sitting high and dry in the Northwest, so you can keep your grain of salt handy.....

I have nothing but thanks for the members of the NG who are trying to do what they can. I do have issues with the "pants down" problem, though. DHS' Chertoff said something like "Katrina broke the mold...blah, blah, blah" but I think that is complete BS. DHS and their diminished stepchild FEMA ran sand table exercises and from what I can tell (and I wait to be contradicted) the parties simply were not interested in following the scenarios through to their worst conclusions. Mad Max anarchy conclusions. That is too bad.

Quote:
Also, communications here are a complete nightmare. We cannot make phone calls out from here. We can only recieve some phone calls. This will vastly slow response time.
One thing I am grateful for is that I have no access to TV. I don't think I could handle atching hat is going on. 2 police officers here commited suicide last night as a result of the stress. I know of 5 other people personally who did the same because they couldn't take it.


This is really, really bad. I don't know what else to say.
Quote:

Yesterday I was assigned to escort our media person to the media trucks. I had to see first hand the destruction in Orleans Parish. The pictures you are seeing are still likely current. As of last night, the water is still past the rooflines of all the homes I saw. I also had to go to the airport. I can't describe the suffering I've seen. Ya'll, please, we need your support. Forget about placing blame for now, please. We need your efforts to be used in a better manner. Understand, we have FEMA and police and firefighters being fired upon while they're trying to help save people. I just recieved word that the police chief of NO committed suicide. Still a rumor at this point, but unfortunately a believeable one.

I hope any such rumors at this point are just rumors -- that help is being felt.

Quote:
As to the numbers of people dying, the initial estimates are ranging from 15-20 thousand, but that number will surely rise as more people are found trapped in their attics and drowned and further still from the disease that is sure to come.

I'm trying but words fail to describe what horror I'm being witness to. My access is very spotty, but I'll try and give updates when I can.

Thanks very much for what you've told us. I can't imagine the words that would describe.

I should probably apologize. I think that there are times whn I take all of this personally - like the pains of Katrina are designed to bring Jim down. As if I Jim should feel so sorry for himself as he sits here in high-and-dry Seattle sipping lemonade. I do feel really sad over all of this, though. I sooo wish that we could have done better. But enough...

I have tried to figure out how to respond/help in my very limited terms. I have to say -- so shoot me -- that I wouldn't give a freaking *dime* to the Red Cross given their horrible track record over the past decade. So what is a secular humanist to do? Giving money to "faith-based" soup kitchens is not an option....

So a few mights I watched news coverage of a town in Louisiana as they took in refugees and set them up on cots in the high school gym. The folks fluffing the pillows all seemed like really nice people just trying to help other humans - white, black, yellow, brown -- in need. So I emailed the Chamber of Commerce and they emailed back right away saying "You bet, we're gonna have a fund at the local bank starting Tuesday AM" and the woman included the phone number. So Tuesday I can send a few bucks to Louisiana to help out the folks camped out in the gym. I am not sure this is the best, most systematic way to respond. I would like to think that there is a very scientific, carefully-thought-out way to support these folks in need. And what about all of the other towns in Louisiana and elsewhere that didn't manage to get their names on network news? So maybe there's a place to develop a Katrina sister city program. In the meantime, I figure I can direct a few bucks to real people and, for better or worse, they can figure out who could use the help.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#263878 - 05/09/2005 03:22 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: jimhogan]
ninti
old hand

Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 868
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
I have tried to figure out how to respond/help in my very limited terms. I have to say -- so shoot me -- that I wouldn't give a freaking *dime* to the Red Cross given their horrible track record over the past decade. So what is a secular humanist to do? Giving money to "faith-based" soup kitchens is not an option....


Try Americares . According to http://www.charitynavigator.org/ , they have less waste than just about anyone, I have heard a lot of good things about them from other boards, and they don't look religious at all.
_________________________
Ninti - MK IIa 60GB Smoke, 30GB, 10GB

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#263879 - 05/09/2005 11:40 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ninti]
Anonymous
Unregistered


link
Quote:
EXCLUSIVE: BRITS' HELL INSIDE THE TERROR DOME
British students, Sarah Yorston, Jane Wheeldon, Jamie Trout, Marisa Haigh
TERRIFIED British students tell of dead bodies, rape, crack, gunshots, filth and a sickening stench filling the thick air.
From Ryan Parry, Us Correspondent, Inside The New Orleans Superdome

BRITISH students told yesterday how they stepped out of the horror of Hurricane Katrina into the hell of their Superdome "shelter".

A place of refuge became a terrifying trap, where knives and guns, crack cocaine use, threats of violence and racial abuse were rife.

Jamie Trout, 22, who kept a record of his four days there, said: "It was like something out of Lord of the Flies - one minute everything is calm and civil, the next it descends into chaos."

In one diary entry, he said: "A man has been arrested for raping a seven-year-old in the toilet, this place is hell, I feel sick. The smell is horrendous, there are toilets overflowing and people everywhere."

As the evacuation of the 70,000- capacity arena continued yesterday, the swamped city of New Orleans descended into near barbarism.

The looting and carjacking of recent days showed no sign of slowing. Gunfire was aimed at police and helicopters attempting to ferry the sick from hospitals, accompanied by shouts of: "You better come get my family."

Advertisement
Falk AdSolution

Ten thousand National Guardsmen were sent in from across the US to the flood-ravaged Gulf coast.

At least seven bodies lay unclaimed in the streets around the New Orleans Convention Centre - one a woman in a wheelchair covered by a blanket.

Daniel Edwards, 47, pointed at her and said: "I don't treat my dog like that...I buried my dog."

Amid criticism of government inaction, he added: "You can do everything for other countries but you can't do nothing for your own people.

"You can go overseas with the military but you can't get them down here."

Thousands of storm refugees massed outside the convention building, waiting for buses that never came. They had no food, water or medicines.

The Rev Issac Clark, 68, said: "We are out here like pure animals. We don't have help."

In what may be America's worst natural disaster for a century, 80 per cent of a city of 500,000 people was under water up to 20ft deep. Thousands could be dead.

At the Superdome, at least 25,000 people were moved out yesterday as New Orleans Mayor Nagin vowed: "Come hell or high water we will evacuate people today, I'll march them out if I have to." Soldiers with M16 assault rifles and grenade launchers tried to control crowds desperate to get out.

At least one person died in the arms of a soldier. A National Guardsman was wounded in the leg by his own gun in a struggle with two men and a military helicopter was shot at while ferrying away a casualty.

Brit diary-writer Jamie had been coaching football to disabled children as part of the Camp America scheme.

Jamie, who was with two friends, said: "We were in Miami for three or four days when Katrina first hit.

"We rode that storm out and then decided to go to New Orleans. We didn't realise the storm was heading that way."

He said of his eventual Superdome refuge: "There was a lot of heat from the people in there, people shouting racial abuse about us being white.

"The army warned us to keep our bags close to us and to grip them tight."

Jamie, an economics student from Sunderland, said he saw crack cocaine being used in the filthy toilets, youngsters breaking into soft drink machines and men brawling. Urine and excrement spilled into corridors where they were sleeping.

At one point, up to 30 British students gathered in the dome were so terrified of attack when the power went down that they set up a makeshift security cordon.

Zoe Smith, 21, from Hull, said: "All us girls sat in the middle while the boys sat on the outside, with chairs as protection.


"We were absolutely terrified, the situation had descended into chaos, people were very hostile and the living conditions were horrendous.

"We had to wash with tiny bottles of water, the sink was blocked and full of gunk. Even when we offered to help with the cleaning, the locals gave us abuse."

Some students said they saw an 18-inch knife confiscated from one man and many others had guns and other weapons.

Marisa Haigh, 23, from Guildford, who is studying at Birmingham University, and Claire Watkins, 23, a student from Bradford, had arrived in New Orleans last Saturday after a trip across the US.

Claire said: "We went out drinking on Saturday night and had an awesome time.

"On Sunday we had hangovers and hadn't heard or read anything about the hurricane coming in. We only realised there was something wrong when we went out in the street and no one was around, everywhere was shut or boarded up."

They were in the Superdome when Katrina hit. Marisa said: "There was a series of almighty bangs when the roof went and a panel flew off.

"There was a woman screaming, 'We're gonna die, we're all gonna die'."

Eventually many of the students were moved to the nearby basketball arena, thanks to Sgt Garland Ogden, a full-timer with the National Guard.

Jane Wheeldon, 20, said: "He went against a lot of rules to get us moved."

Yesterday Texas was ready to house 50,000 flood refugees - 25,000 of them in the Houston Astrodome, 350 miles away. The rest will go to San Antonio.

Rescue in some areas was suspended as looters ran amok.

Coast Guard Lt Cmdr Cheri Ben-Iesan said at emergency HQ: "Hospitals are trying to evacuate. At every one of them, there are reports that as the helicopters come in people are shooting at them, telling them, 'You better come get my family'. City leader Mitch Landrieu toured stricken areas and was besieged by rescued people begging him to pass information to their families.

His pocket was full of scraps of paper on which he had scribbled down their phone numbers.

He contacted a woman whose father had been saved and told her: "Your daddy's alive, and he said to tell you he loves you."

Landrieu added: "She just started crying. She said, 'I thought he was dead'."

In Britain, worried relatives of the Superdome students were told by the Mirror their loved ones were safe.

From details given to our reporters at the scene, we passed on messages to families nationwide.

Zoe Smith's mother Sharon said in Hull: "That's brilliant. It's been horrendous not knowing what on earth has happened to her. I have barely slept."

Fine art publisher Janet Murray, 55, from Frome, Somerset, whose daughter Hannah was stranded, said: "I had not heard anything, thanks so much for letting me know."


Who are the real racists?

Let me tell you my life story real quick. While I now reside in Europe, I grew up in the southern US, and I went to a predominantly (80-90%) black school in a poor neighborhood from 6th to 8th grade, and I saw more blatent racism there than I've seen anywhere else. And guess what... it was all black on white racism. Yes, I, a white male have experienced racism first hand. Never in my life have I seen a group of whites taunt, tease, and threat a black person for being black, but I've seen it - and experienced it - the other way around numerous times. Maybe you haven't realized it yet, but people colored other than white are capable of racism too. I know how blacks in parts of this country must have felt a few generations ago. I was the 'nigger' in that neighborhood.

So think first before you call me a racist just because I'm not afraid to point out a few obvious facts.

FACT - most of the refugees in NO and the superdome were poor. FACT - most of the refugees in NO and the superdome were black. FACT - there have been reports of murder, rape, utter chaos, pillaging of the city, and attacks on rescue workers. My opinion - many of the refugees have acted like savages, in a manner that I'd call uncivilized and unnormal. Whether it's because they're black, or because they're poor, or because of another reason, who knows - come to your own conclusion - but something is definitely wrong here. Unfoturnately, the acts of a few in that community are causing the lives of their own neighbors to be lost.


Billy

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#263880 - 05/09/2005 11:46 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ]
tahir
pooh-bah

Registered: 27/02/2004
Posts: 1896
Loc: London
I'd have to say that I agree at least partly with Billy's take on racism, I'm of Pakistani descent and a muslim, yes I've had racist abuse and discrimination, but then I know loads of Indian/pakistani/Black people that are just as racist and bigotted. Racism is not an exclusuively white problem.

Don't know enough about any of the rest of it to make an informed comment, haven't really followed it on the news.

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#263881 - 05/09/2005 12:02 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: ]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
I have experienced the exact same thing. I lived in a predominantly black neighborhood when I moved here and have never been harassed like that for being white ever in my life. It's just hard to say that and not be labeled a racist. I have plenty of friends that are black and work with quite a few others. But most of the people that live in the projects are a completely different animal.


Edited by lectric (05/09/2005 12:12)

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#263882 - 05/09/2005 12:18 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: lectric]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2085
Loc: New Orleans, LA
By the way, a 7 year old girl was gang-raped at the convention center. Animals.

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#263883 - 05/09/2005 13:22 Re: Hurricane Katrina [Re: jimhogan]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
Quote:
I have tried to figure out how to respond/help in my very limited terms. I have to say -- so shoot me -- that I wouldn't give a freaking *dime* to the Red Cross given their horrible track record over the past decade. So what is a secular humanist to do? Giving money to "faith-based" soup kitchens is not an option....


Habitat for Humanity?

I'm thinking about a more direct option too - rumors are that 2500 people are being evacuated to Boston's convention center. I'm contemplating walking in there once they arrive, randomly choosing a family and going clothes shopping for them.
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Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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