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#280976 - 09/07/2006 02:51 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: Mataglap]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
What a -fabulous- disclaimer!

Quote:
The information in these pages is provided to give guidance on various techniques not usually identified with a specific standard. These are recommended practices that will result in reliable products. They are not, however, intended to be hard requirements, assumed to be supplemental to existing standards, or judged as the only acceptable method that can be used for the particular topic. For each topic covered herein, there can be several other techniques or procedures not described that can provide equivalent reliability, and their use should not be discouraged because they're not included in these pages.

This information should not be used if it conflicts with any contractual or program-specific requirements. Unless otherwise specified, these pages fall in order of precedence behind the contract, approved drawings, and any standards imposed on the program.


I am in AWE.

-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?

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#280977 - 09/07/2006 12:27 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: FireFox31]
Redrum
old hand

Registered: 17/01/2003
Posts: 998
Quote:
This debate is informative, answering some questions and raising more. I've probably gotten myself into trouble by choosing solder, but given enough time and information, I can learn the task.

The solder-type RCA connectors I'm using have a flat - solder post. Can I solder wire onto a flat surface? My cheap RadioShack RCAs have holes posts. The "high end" - is just a flat surface and the + is a depression to receive the wire. Tempted to drill a hole in the - receiver to thread the wire.

The RCAs are where strain relief is my biggest concern. I'm considering hot gluing or caulking the wires at the end of the connector to help them.

How do I better join two (or more) wires before soldering them? Should I twist individual strands from both wire, then twist together the whole mass? Seems like risking metal fatigue.

I chose clear thin walled heat shrink tubing, but it seems thin. I probably should have got the thick walled for stronger support... but I think it had a higher shrink temp that I didn't want to mess with.

I chose standard tin/lead solder (two spools: one with and one without flux) over 4% silver solder because I didn't think I could handle the higher melting temp of the silver.

Maybe I'll try testing some soldering and shrinking this weekend. Eventually I'll get it figured out.


When using multi-stranded wire I would use the Lap Splice except I mesh with wires together by pushing them straight into each other and then lightly twisting so they stay together until soldered. IMO the meshing makes for a much stronger connection. You can also then easily slide the heat shrink over the connection. Just make sure you put the heat shrink on one of the wires first and slide it far enough away so it doesn’t get hot.

Not all heat shrink is created equal some is really crap. The clear stuff a bought a few years ago was not so good. I’ve had some black stuff for years that seems to work much better. Sorry I can’t give you more information other than its black. I’ve probably had it 15 years and have no idea who made it.

You might also want to get a small tin of flux. Flux is incredibly important in soldering. If you don’t have enough flux on the wires the solder will not adhere to the copper and you’ll get a poor connection. And never use acid core solder, that’s for pluming.

For stain relief you might try wrapping a small amount of tape around the RCA to build up the thickness and then put shrink over the tape and RCA. I usually buy fairly good, already made RCA cables. You can get a lot of noise through poorly shielded RCA cables.

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#280978 - 09/07/2006 14:26 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: Ezekiel]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
What a -fabulous- disclaimer!

Your tax payer dollars at work!
_________________________
-
FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#280979 - 09/07/2006 14:29 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: Redrum]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Thanks for the good ideas. I have rosin flux core tin/lead solder (active rosin? i forget).

Thanks for the NASA link. If it works for those guys, it'll work for my hack job.
_________________________
-
FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#280980 - 09/07/2006 23:09 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: FireFox31]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
Can I solder wire onto a flat surface?

Yes. In fact, if your solder technique isn't being successful in getting the solder to stick solidly to a flat surface, I would argue that any twist and through-hole solders are gonna be iffy, too.

The important characteristic of a proper solder joint (whether it's being applied to a flat surface or any other kind of joint) is that the melted solder should bond to the surface of the metal quite solidly. So whether you are just touching two pieces of metal together, or mechanically entwining them (twists or through-hole), your bonds should be equally strong.

The secrets to getting a good solid bond with the surface are:

1. Proper application of a good liquid or gel flux.

2. Sufficiently heat the metal that you're bonding the solder to.

Certain kinds of large connectors (I used to have trouble with a certain kind of guitar cable plug) require that you heat up almost the entire connector in order to get the solder to start sticking. I don't think your RCA connector tab will be like that, though. You should be OK.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#280981 - 13/07/2006 01:41 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: tfabris]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
I'm surprised flux is that important. Described as "an agent to clean the metalic contacts" it seems almost pointless. My wires and RCA connectors are fresh out of the box, never used, making me wonder why they need cleaning.

I hope my solder with active rosin flux core will do the trick. Still waiting for my radio to come in (since the first was "lost in the mail") before I can start...
_________________________
-
FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#280982 - 13/07/2006 01:55 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: FireFox31]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Quote:
I'm surprised flux is that important. Described as "an agent to clean the metalic contacts" it seems almost pointless. My wires and RCA connectors are fresh out of the box, never used, making me wonder why they need cleaning.

I hope my solder with active rosin flux core will do the trick. Still waiting for my radio to come in (since the first was "lost in the mail") before I can start...

Try soldering with low or zero flux solder and you will instantly find out. Even with "clean" connectors, they still have some oxidation on them. Rosin flux core is what you want.
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

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#280983 - 13/07/2006 13:58 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: FireFox31]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
I have found, over time, that rosin core solder by itself doesn't do nearly as well as a separate application of flux.

Flux is NOT to clean the contacts. I don't know how it does it, but flux does something chemically that allows the solder to really bond to the surface of the metal in a way that just heat alone won't.

Without flux, your solder will have a tendency to just sit on the surface of the metal in a self-sticky blob that can be picked off with your fingernail after it cools. With flux, the solder flows outward smoothly across the metal and gets into all the nooks and crannies.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#280984 - 13/07/2006 14:52 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: tfabris]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
flux does something chemically that allows the solder to really bond to the surface of the metal in a way that just heat alone won't.


According to Wikipedia, flux cleans the surfaces of oxidation, and aids wetting (reducing the surface tension of the liquid solder), which increases the contact area between the surfaces, and allows capillary action to draw the solder into the join more effectively. Doesn't say how it does it, though.
_________________________
-- roger

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#280985 - 13/07/2006 15:25 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: Roger]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Influence of Flux on Wetting Behavior of Lead-Free Solder Balls during the Infrared-Reflow Process:

Quote:
In reality, the chemistry of flux interactions at oxide surfaces is complicated and involves acid-base, oxidation-reduction, and coordination-type and adsorption-type reactions. Most fluxes react as Bronsted-Lowry acids with metallic oxides to form their respective salts and water, and the salts serve as surfactants that promote solder wetting.


A "Bronsted-Lowry acid" is an acid defined by the fact that it donates a proton in a chemical reaction. A surfactant is something that reduces surface tension. Why surface tension exists and how it is reduced are beyond the scope of this post.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#280986 - 14/07/2006 05:30 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: Roger]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Ah, thanks. There you go. That wetting thing. That's the real benefit of flux. For all the solder jobs I've ever done, it's the key component to getting a good bond. Without it, even when using rosin core solder, the stuff just blobs up without flowing onto the metal.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#280987 - 15/07/2006 16:57 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: Roger]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Quote:
reducing the surface tension of the liquid solder

Makes some good sense. For now, I'll stick with rosin core. Adding another variable, how much flux to use, will be too much at first.
_________________________
-
FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#280988 - 15/07/2006 18:01 Re: Preparing for 1st audio install / soldering newbie [Re: FireFox31]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
It's difficult to use too much flux, so don't worry about it. Just get the contacts wet with the stuff. After soldering, use some Q-Tip swabs dipped in alcohol to clean away the flux residue. Get "no-clean" flux if possible, but clean it afterwards regardless.

Cheers

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