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#288905 - 26/10/2006 17:31 Oh Bollards!
Phil.
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2479

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#288906 - 26/10/2006 19:55 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: Phil.]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3976
Loc: Manchester UK
Having seen two of those first hand I can assure you those vehicles are driven by the thickest pieces of sh*t you could ever hope to meet. There was also one involving one of those 4WD Mercedes Chelsey tractors. I laughed so hard when I saw that. People really don't read road signs.....

Nice of shot of a Channel M news chaser parked outside Scott Place at the end too!
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#288907 - 26/10/2006 20:17 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: andym]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3824
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Owwwwwwuch. That's gotta hoyt.
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#288908 - 26/10/2006 20:55 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: andym]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2642
Loc: Manteca, California
I'm not familar with these gadgets. From the video is seems they drop only for bus traffic.
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#288909 - 26/10/2006 21:19 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: gbeer]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
It must be a restricted road.
Why not put the blockades at the entrance? Then (signs or not) nobody would drive down it to be trapped in the first place.
Why not have an above ground barrier that can be seen at all times (up, down, or moving down)?

Seems to me that the Brits have a heritage of kooky and overly complex street widgets. Must be the water.
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#288910 - 26/10/2006 22:25 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: Robotic]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3976
Loc: Manchester UK
Those roads are for busses and essential vehicles only. They some kind of RFID mounted somewhere on them that makes the bollards come down.

Given the number of signs that surround these things, those people have no excuses for doing that. As you can see there's CCTV on every one. All they have to do is wait and they'll be let out. So you see those people are impatient as well as retarded. They get no sympathy from me, nor I imagine, from their insurance companies.

Will take a photo of the one near work to show what the signs are like.
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#288911 - 26/10/2006 22:35 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: andym]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2642
Loc: Manteca, California
So was the bus leaving or entering a restricted area?
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Glenn

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#288912 - 26/10/2006 22:35 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: Robotic]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3976
Loc: Manchester UK
Quote:
Seems to me that the Brits have a heritage of kooky and overly complex street widgets. Must be the water.



So self-cleaning road safety devices that inexpensive, long-lasting and simple to manufacture are kooky?
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Andy M

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#288913 - 26/10/2006 22:37 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: gbeer]
andym
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3976
Loc: Manchester UK
Quote:
So was the bus leaving or entering a restricted area?


Could be either, there's a set at each end.
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Andy M

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#288914 - 27/10/2006 05:36 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: andym]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Quote:
Quote:
Seems to me that the Brits have a heritage of kooky and overly complex street widgets. Must be the water.



So self-cleaning road safety devices that inexpensive, long-lasting and simple to manufacture are kooky?

The US version of a 'road reflector' is much less complex and (I'm assuming) much more inexpensive than a standard cateye.

Cleaning is taken care of by the occasional tires that drive over them- kabump-kabump.
Don't get me wrong- I respect UK drivers, cars, and the way the government keeps the roads. It just always seemed funny to me that a buck's worth of plastic could be evolved into something, well, so complex.
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#288915 - 27/10/2006 05:49 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: andym]
boxer
pooh-bah

Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
I hadn't realised that they didn't have cat's eyes in the US, they are a brilliant safety device particularly in poor weather.
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#288916 - 27/10/2006 06:27 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: Robotic]
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
It just always seemed funny to me that a buck's worth of plastic could be evolved into something, well, so complex.


I think you'll find that something so "complex" evolved into a bucks worth of plastic. Cats eyes were invented in the 30's. Bucks worth of plastic are much more modern inventions (googling reveals them to be 30 years newer). And they don't work half as well


Edited by furtive (27/10/2006 06:29)
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#288917 - 27/10/2006 06:42 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: furtive]
Schido
enthusiast

Registered: 29/03/2005
Posts: 364
Loc: Probably lost somewhere in Wal...
There's some tests here now with cat's eyes with led's in them: (some even solar powered)



Edited by Schido (27/10/2006 06:44)
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#288918 - 27/10/2006 08:15 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: Schido]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4140
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
There's some tests here now with cat's eyes with led's in them

There's a cycle path round here somewhere where they've done that (out Oakington way IIRC). It's really pleasant cycling along there in the dark now, the light they give out is probably too dim to be seen much by car drivers with their powerful headlights, but for a cyclist they're just right.

Peter

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#288919 - 27/10/2006 08:20 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: peter]
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
Ah, Oakington...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLa-x9ZZsaA
(should really be in the best videos thread I suppose)
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#288920 - 27/10/2006 11:02 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: boxer]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Quote:
I hadn't realised that they didn't have cat's eyes in the US, they are a brilliant safety device particularly in poor weather.


Not really necessary. Even the narrowest roads over this way in most places are wide enough for 3-4 vehicles side-by-side, unlike common country roads in the UK.

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#288921 - 27/10/2006 11:27 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: mlord]
Phil.
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2479
ha, many country roads here have no cats eyes. Makes for a fun bit of night time driving!

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#288922 - 27/10/2006 11:36 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: mlord]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4140
Loc: Cambridge, England
Quote:
Not really necessary. Even the narrowest roads over this way in most places are wide enough for 3-4 vehicles side-by-side, unlike common country roads in the UK.

Dunno about Canada, but if they're anything like US country roads, they're also a lot straighter than is usually the case in the UK.

Peter

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#288923 - 27/10/2006 11:45 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: peter]
boxer
pooh-bah

Registered: 16/04/2002
Posts: 2011
Loc: Yorkshire UK
It struck me after I posted that you'd need a heck of a lot of cat's eyes to get from sea to shining sea!
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#288924 - 27/10/2006 11:53 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: mlord]
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
Quote:

Not really necessary. Even the narrowest roads over this way in most places are wide enough for 3-4 vehicles side-by-side, unlike common country roads in the UK.


They are generally used between lanes too though
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#288925 - 27/10/2006 12:18 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: mlord]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
In the rain on Ontario (Canada) roads you'd be lucky to see any stripes or markings on the pavement, whether you're driving on a lit or unlit road. This is a huge disappointment. For the relatively high taxes we pay, our roads are now at the level commonly associated with the US in the 80's and 90's - that is to say, significant disrepair. I'd have no problem believing there is some outright collusion between the paving companies and select individuals in provincial and/or municipal government.

I'd love to see any type of reflector integrated into the pavement, but I also realize that many solutions would pose a problem for snow plows in the Winter months.
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#288926 - 27/10/2006 12:52 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: hybrid8]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1084
Loc: UK
I seem to recall that, in Ontario at least, there was a deliberate policy of not marking roads very well. The rationale was that good, easy to see, unambiguous road markings encourage faster driving, and therefore more accidents! If the roads are badly lit and marked, people have to drive much more slowly, therefore it's safer. There was something on TV about this a few years back in a program on different road standards around the world.

I must say that I can't really agree with this logic. Remembering driving around Belleville, where my family used to live, during winter nights, you certainly saw plenty of locals roaring around at 50-60 miles an hour on roads where you could barely see the lane markings on a sunny day, never mind at night when it was snowing The lack of markings didn't seem to make them slow down at all.

On the other hand, the 401 highway, which by UK terms is a fairly good dual carriageway with wider-than-normal lanes seemed to inspire fear and awe in most of the local inhabitants, where a UK driver would just drive happily and safely down it at 80MPh. Going this slowly, of course, because it was after all a different country with different rules

It was always amusing to hear it described as packed, when in UK terms it was practically empty. Packed is three lanes of traffic doing 70+ four feet apart on the M3, not two lanes of 55-60 traffic with two hundred meter gaps between vehicles.

Despite that, we seem to get a lot less accidents in the UK than I saw in Ontario on a per mile basis. Florida, on a trip there a few years ago, was almost unbelievably worse from that point of view, and even less traffic as well.

pca
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#288927 - 27/10/2006 13:02 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: pca]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Quote:
I seem to recall that, in Ontario at least, there was a deliberate policy of not marking roads very well.


I don't know when that was ever true, but these days the roads are overly well marked, and now even have lots of motherhood signs ("drive safely"; "speed fines are $xxxx", etc..).

Too much money in the coffers, I suppose.

-ml

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#288928 - 27/10/2006 13:12 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: boxer]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Quote:
It struck me after I posted that you'd need a heck of a lot of cat's eyes to get from sea to shining sea!

I'm not sure of the numbers, but I have to imagine that the US has substantially more miles of road than the UK- even with the UK being so densely populated and thoroughly distributed (in comparison).
Just the cost of keeping asphalt (tarmack?) on the road is prohibitive. The added costs of each Catseye unit (not to mention the installation) would be amazing. It's really no wonder that we just glue down our chunks of plastic.
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#288929 - 27/10/2006 13:18 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: Robotic]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5524
Loc: London, UK
Quote:
I'm not sure of the numbers, but I have to imagine that the US has substantially more miles of road than the UK...


According to the CIA World Factbook, the US has 4,167,964 km of paved road (scroll down to Transportation / Roadways), against the UK's 387,647 km.
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#288930 - 27/10/2006 13:56 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: Roger]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
We also have a well fed highway lobby to make sure the $$ keeps flowing onto those roads.

-Zeke
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#288931 - 27/10/2006 13:57 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: hybrid8]
DWallach
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 3648
Quote:
I'd love to see any type of reflector integrated into the pavement, but I also realize that many solutions would pose a problem for snow plows in the Winter months.

I've sometimes seen this addressed by building a depression into the road surface, and attaching the cat's eye to the road, in the depression. So long as the highest point on the cat's eye is below the surface of the road, a snow plow won't effect it. On the other hand, the depression needs to be relatively long to make sure you've got a clear shot from your headlights to the cat's eye and back at a suitable distance.

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#288932 - 27/10/2006 14:39 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: furtive]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Quote:
Quote:
It just always seemed funny to me that a buck's worth of plastic could be evolved into something, well, so complex.


I think you'll find that something so "complex" evolved into a bucks worth of plastic. Cats eyes were invented in the 30's. Bucks worth of plastic are much more modern inventions (googling reveals them to be 30 years newer). And they don't work half as well


Yes, I'd read the story of the Catseye from the manufacturer's website (linked at the bottom of the wikipedia article) and I knew that the reflector system had a long history in the UK, although I didn't realize the history having started as early as it had.
My choice of order in the evolution comment was mistaken. However, I still can't make ammends with the cost (unit and implementation) of catseyes vs surface-mount reflectors.
If indeed the catseye works "twice as good" as our reflectors, then any sane person would want to only pay "twice as much".
Indeed, I feel that surface mount reflectors could be doubled in number (in common per mile usage) and still be a radically smaller financial burden than a standard number of catseyes.
I don't know the cost of either unit we're discussing here, so I'm open to changing my opinion based on such real information.
As it is, I can see several things about the catseye that increases the cost.
1. insertion into the road surface
2. 'plunging' mechanism
3. 'eye wiping' component

They're great. They're cool. Nifty. Fine. Safe. Good.
No dispute.

Inexpensive to make?
Doubtful.
Easy to install/repair/replace?
Doubtful.
Robust? Yes.
Indestructible? No.

I saw one on the side of a road that I drove every day in July. I really like cateyes, you know? I wanted to take that one home with me- just because I think they're sort of a 'road culture' anomaly.
I did stop- but changed my mind about taking the thing when I realized how heavy they are- lots of beefy steel in that housing!
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#288933 - 27/10/2006 15:52 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: Robotic]
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
Oh, and FWIW old-style cats eyes are dying out in the UK and are being replaced with chuncks of plastic. Whether this is down to cost saving or design, who knows.
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#288934 - 28/10/2006 01:17 Re: Oh Bollards! [Re: furtive]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2642
Loc: Manteca, California
I've seen uninstalled samples of the Bot's Dots both the round and reflector versions. They are thin enough, and flexible enough that you can fold them in half by hand. What makes them robust it the dollop of adhesive that fills it. I'd bet that dollop of adhesive costs more than the reflector.

The other thing about Bot's Dots is the speed at which they are installed. A specially fitted truck runs down the road at near freeway speeds pasting them down. And they are proof against traffic immediately.

Also they are not installed everywhere in the US. One of my remote cousins, after seeing them for the first time, asked if the local winter fogs were why they were installed.
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