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#294842 - 16/03/2007 00:05 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: FireFox31]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Quote:

It would be great if tags on the CF could make it faster to load large playlists. 1.03 rarely hesitated as much as 2.0, and maybe that's why.


I think the biggest win, though rarely used, will be database rebuilds. Those are dominated by seek times, which are reduced to zero on a CF device.

Cheers

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#294843 - 17/03/2007 15:45 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: mlord]
Major_Sarcasm
member

Registered: 28/08/2003
Posts: 149
Loc: Isle of Wight, UK
Quote:
If you want it, then get yourself a CF-IDE adapter board, configure it as SLAVE, and install it in your player. Then get a small (or huge, whatever) CF card for it, and let me know you're ready to try it.


Cool, will do
_________________________
Steve

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#294844 - 28/03/2007 07:45 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: Major_Sarcasm]
Major_Sarcasm
member

Registered: 28/08/2003
Posts: 149
Loc: Isle of Wight, UK
Talking about Compact Flash Empegs as we have been, has anyone else noticed these? Just about to come to market, they would negate the need for an adaptor at all and would appear to be coming to a shop near you in a variety of audiophile-friendly sizes.

I realise that the interface is SATA, but one would assume that someone will release a non-SATA version for backwards compatibilty with older laptops, etc (unless SATA in 2.5" form-factor is already backwards compatible? I'm not sure).

Comments?

Edit: Cor... gonna be expensive though. Maybe not then


Edited by Major_Sarcasm (28/03/2007 07:48)

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#294845 - 28/03/2007 12:37 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: Major_Sarcasm]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Talking about Compact Flash Empegs as we have been, has anyone else noticed these?

I've held one of those in my hands recently.

The word on the street is that *nobody* is working on new PATA ("IDE") drives -- everything has gone SATA. I don't know if that's strictly true or not, but..

Cheers

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#294846 - 28/03/2007 13:01 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: mlord]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3389
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
The adapters to convert from sata to pata are small and cheap. It wouldn't be difficult to put two of these drives and adapters into an empeg.
_________________________
~ John

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#294847 - 28/03/2007 17:03 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: mlord]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
It may not be "new", but PQI makes a 64GB 44-pin IDE 2.5" flash drive.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#294848 - 29/03/2007 02:14 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: wfaulk]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2642
Loc: Manteca, California
Quote:
It may not be "new", but PQI makes a 64GB 44-pin IDE 2.5" flash drive.


Capacity: 64MB~16GB
_________________________
Glenn

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#294849 - 29/03/2007 04:43 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: gbeer]
Major_Sarcasm
member

Registered: 28/08/2003
Posts: 149
Loc: Isle of Wight, UK
Quote:
Capacity: 64MB~16GB


The site actually states (for the Turbo DOM):

Quote:
64MB-64GB Storage Capacities


Edit: I googled some prices and they're ludicrous.


Edited by Major_Sarcasm (29/03/2007 04:54)
_________________________
Steve

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#294850 - 29/03/2007 17:33 Re: CF+Harddisk Hybrid.. [Re: Major_Sarcasm]
Ezekiel
pooh-bah

Registered: 25/08/2000
Posts: 2413
Loc: NH USA
Uh, yeah:

"64GB IDE or SATA, 2.5", 14.5mm height $10500"

-Zeke
_________________________
WWFSMD?

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#294851 - 01/04/2007 21:20 Re: CF empeg [Re: mlord]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2642
Loc: Manteca, California
http://www.psism.com/adcf.htm#2-slot

Here is a different adapter. 2 slots per card. So you get the keep the space of one drive for something else. Unit is 1cm thk but has the 44pin socket pointing up. That seems an advantage. Price $45. About 50% more expensive than the others at $16 ea.

Quote:
Features:
- RoHS 2.5 form factor CF to IDE interface
- 2 slots, supporting Type I/II CF Card and Microdrive
- Male 44-pin and/or 40-pin IDE connector. May require a 40 or 44-pin cable, (not included).
- Power Voltage 5V. 40-pin version with 4-pin power connector on-board
- LED indicator
- Dimension: 75mm x 70mm (2.95" x 2.76") x10mm
- G. W. : 60g ( 2.12 oz)
- Due to IDE restrictions, the CF card is not hot-swappable.
_________________________
Glenn

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#294852 - 01/04/2007 21:28 Re: CF empeg [Re: pgrzelak]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2642
Loc: Manteca, California
Quote:
Hmmm... That does look nice...

This makes me think of an interesting little side project. A lot of the internal volume of the empeg is devoted to the shock tray for the drives. If you were just dealing with the main board with a remote display (see other projects), it might be possible to modify an empeg into a "slimline" version, completely shockproof and easily mountable anywhere...


Paul, It's and attractive idea. What size do you think the box would need to be?
_________________________
Glenn

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#294853 - 02/04/2007 07:54 Re: CF empeg [Re: gbeer]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
To be honest, I have not given it that much additional thought...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#294854 - 02/04/2007 15:27 Re: CF empeg [Re: gbeer]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2287
Loc: Berkeley, California
Quote:
2 slots per card. So you get the keep the space of one drive for something else.

Huh, I didn't look too hard, but does it work by making one master and one slave? It would be pretty complex to work any way else. Perhaps this will raise the value of my MkI.

Matthew

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#294855 - 02/04/2007 17:05 Re: CF empeg [Re: matthew_k]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Quote:
2 slots per card. So you get the keep the space of one drive for something else.

Huh, I didn't look too hard, but does it work by making one master and one slave? It would be pretty complex to work any way else. Perhaps this will raise the value of my MkI.

Matthew


Cool. With the Mk1 you get to install up to four cards! With current (cheap) CF tech, that's a solid-state 32GB!

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#294856 - 02/04/2007 23:57 Re: CF empeg [Re: mlord]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2642
Loc: Manteca, California
I ordered one of the two slot cf adapters last night. This morning I received and email - there's a 10 day lead time. This in spite of ordering the version that was not marked as special order.
_________________________
Glenn

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#294857 - 05/04/2007 10:01 Re: CF empeg [Re: robricc]
snoopstah
enthusiast

Registered: 07/01/2002
Posts: 324
Loc: Squamish, BC
Here's another adapter just launched: http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad44midecf.asp

$29 for the two-slot model. Sorry, not read the whole thread, so don't know if you've seen this one already.
_________________________
Empeg Mk2a 60G with amber lit buttons kit - #30102490

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#294858 - 05/04/2007 10:09 Re: CF empeg [Re: snoopstah]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1347
Loc: MA but Irish born
From the page snoopstah linked to:
http://www.addonics.com/support/faqs/faq_secure_cf.asp
I think I'll start a thread in Off-Topic

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#294859 - 06/04/2007 00:26 Re: CF empeg [Re: Phoenix42]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2642
Loc: Manteca, California
There is a mention, in that FAQ, of CF cards that ID as either fixed or removable.
Is that difference important to an empeg?

I don't seem to ever remember seeing CF cards for sale where the choice was available. Nor did is seem important to the sellers to ID the same as one or the other.
_________________________
Glenn

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#294860 - 06/04/2007 00:29 Re: CF empeg [Re: gbeer]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Quote:
There is a mention, in that FAQ, of CF cards that ID as either fixed or removable.
Is that difference important to an empeg?


My IDE driver in the empeg kernel doesn't care.

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#294861 - 06/04/2007 01:07 Re: CF empeg [Re: snoopstah]
gbeer
carpal tunnel

Registered: 17/12/2000
Posts: 2642
Loc: Manteca, California
Sad to admit that if I had found that card during my searches, I'd have bought it instead.
_________________________
Glenn

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#294862 - 08/04/2007 10:11 Re: CF empeg [Re: robricc]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
Bad ass Rob. If I were to do this, I'd go with two CF drives also. No heat, no moving parts, easy to swap/backup. Nice.
_________________________
Brad B.

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#294863 - 07/05/2007 22:24 Re: CF empeg [Re: SE_Sport_Driver]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Mmm... 16GB cards are now becoming almost affordable for this sort of upgrade.

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#294864 - 17/07/2007 01:07 Re: CF empeg [Re: mlord]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Mmm... 16GB cards are now becoming almost affordable for this sort of upgrade.


Okay, my primary player now sports dual 16GB CF cards -- the cheapie A-Data ones, which are actually quite fast.

And there's no looking back. I absolutely love the speed boost that this gives my player!

'Can hardly wait until 32GB CF cards become available -- at that point I'll equip all of my players with pairs of them!

Cheers

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#294865 - 17/07/2007 04:11 Re: CF empeg [Re: mlord]
Robotic
pooh-bah

Registered: 06/04/2005
Posts: 2026
Loc: Seattle transplant
Quote:
I absolutely love the speed boost that this gives my player!
Sounds great! Any comparison data?
_________________________
10101311 (20GB- backup empeg)
10101466 (2x60GB, Eutronix/GreenLights Blue) (Stolen!)

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#294866 - 17/07/2007 09:37 Re: CF empeg [Re: Robotic]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Quote:
I absolutely love the speed boost that this gives my player!
Sounds great! Any comparison data?


Nothing measured -- and not likely to be for a while, as I'm in the classroom for much of this week, using this exact unit as a demo/illustration of an early embedded Linux system.

But one very obvious one: I have an "All" playlist, which selects all artists. Clicking on this in the web interface, to bring up the list of artists, used to take about 15-20 seconds (seeking around to read a bunch of tag files) while the player was playing an mp3. It now takes about 3 seconds.

I expect database rebuilds to be equally improved(!), but haven't actually rebuilt a database yet, since I just copied everything over as-was from the single 30GB hard drive.

EDIT: and startup is noticeably faster too. The waving Tux animation gets preempted by the player startup now, and music is coming out before the static logo is done.

Cheers


Edited by mlord (17/07/2007 09:40)

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#294867 - 19/07/2007 23:20 Re: CF empeg [Re: mlord]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2491
Loc: East Coast, USA
What was the consensus on burning out the card from excessive write operations by the software? Or are the cards smart enough to avoid those dead spots?
_________________________
-
FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#294868 - 19/07/2007 23:57 Re: CF empeg [Re: FireFox31]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Quote:
What was the consensus on burning out the card from excessive write operations by the software? Or are the cards smart enough to avoid those dead spots?


They're supposed to be smart enough, but not all of them are. I don't think there's any way to tell which is which, though.

But for the empeg, only the dynamic data partition gets written to with any kind of frequency, and that's infrequent enough as to not be an issue (I think).

Cheers

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#294869 - 20/07/2007 00:27 Re: CF empeg [Re: mlord]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
There's a filesystem (whose name I forget) designed for flash memory that is supposed to avoid hotspots. You might consider transitioning to that. Not that that helps with the dynamic data partition.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#294870 - 20/07/2007 02:07 Re: CF empeg [Re: wfaulk]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13494
Loc: Canada
Quote:
There's a filesystem (whose name I forget) designed for flash memory that is supposed to avoid hotspots. You might consider transitioning to that. Not that that helps with the dynamic data partition.


JFFS, JFFS2, LogFS, etc.. are all designed for use on raw flash chips.

CompactFlash cards are not raw flash chips but, rather, have an included controller that performs the same types of functions as JFFS(2) and LogFS on top of the Linux MTD layer: wear-levelling, ECC, bad page remapping, etc..

So we're already using one of the better solutions: the dynamic data partiion is a raw access, or custom, filesystem that uses very minimal writes (no meta data or timestamps whatsoever).

It's already as good as it can get.

Cheers

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#294871 - 20/07/2007 02:17 Re: CF empeg [Re: mlord]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I did not know that. Interesting.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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