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#313700 - 07/09/2008 20:03 Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires
bootsy
enthusiast

Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
Hi guys... I was hoping someone here could give me confirmation on getting my tuner to work in car with my empeg.

I had my Mk2 installed in my 2006 WRX a few years back. It's worked more or less fine, other than my issue documented here Dim or Turn Off Standby LED?.

From the looks of it, the Blue Amp remote wire is plugged into power. I am not an electrician (and now possibly my installer wasn't either), but it appears they have made minced meat of my sled wiring. The Blue Amp Remote wire and Black Ground have been cut from the tuner plug and wired directly into the vehicle.

I'd like to use my tuner to interface with a Sony Stalk Remote. Can I just splice the blue and black wires back onto the tuner plug and have this work?

Second question... looking at this mess, can anyone see what else is wrong and maybe point me to a solution?

Thanks very much... image to follow


Attachments
tuner_wires.jpg

Description: spaghetti


_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."

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#313713 - 08/09/2008 02:46 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: bootsy]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 883
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
If those cut wires were originally from the Tuner Plug, then yes you need to hook them up there to make things work. Check out the Tuner Plug wiring diagram here:

Diagram:


Key:


The blue wire on the right, if that is coming from your Empeg Sled then yes, thats not connected up right. That wire is supposed to be 'Amp Remote' which goes +12V when the Empeg powers up so your amplifier knows to turn on.

The yellow wire from the car harness is probably 'Memory' which is the permanent +12V that the Empeg should be powered by. If you have a VW or derivative Memory and Ignition Sense may be swapped over.

Note: There are probably two Blue wires from your Tuner. One is supposed to be on the Tuner Plug. The other is hanging free - this one is the Antenna Remote wire which goes +12V when the source is switched to 'Tuner' on the Empeg. Use this for signal boosters and those retractable electric aerials if you need to, else tape it up and tuck it away. Don't mix them up.
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Hussein

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#313778 - 09/09/2008 01:45 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: sein]
bootsy
enthusiast

Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
Thank you so much for the reply... I have two questions about how to proceed.

Just to confirm, the blue and black wires at the top of the first image are indeed from the Tuner Plug. I used a print out of the image you included below from the FAQ to confirm my suspicions. Thanks for including it for completion sake.

Question #1:
Short term. The empeg works with the current wiring. If I were to splice the blue Amp Remote and the black Ground from the Tuner Plug back into the matching wires from the sled, the Tuner should work?

Question #2:
Going over the diagram I seem to remember the yellow Memory wire had a black plastic piece that I assume was the "Filter and Fuse" shown in the diagram. That is sadly long gone. mad If I could find a new wiring harness for the empeg, would this revised diagram I am attaching be the correct way to hook everything up?

I'd love to take this information back to the original installer, but they are no longer in the Car Audio business.

Again, thank you for taking the time to help!



Attachments
wiringdiagram2copy.jpg


_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."

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#313810 - 09/09/2008 10:57 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: bootsy]
sein
old hand

Registered: 07/01/2005
Posts: 883
Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa
The diagram you have drawn looks okay to me.

I'm curious, where is your yellow cable from the sled connected to?

Originally Posted By: sein
Note: There are probably two Blue wires from your Tuner.

I just want to clarify that this probably applies to PCATS tuners only, not the original black Empeg ones. Original tuners don't have that additional blue accessory cable IIRC.
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Hussein

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#313819 - 09/09/2008 13:11 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: bootsy]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13528
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Short term. The empeg works with the current wiring.

No it doesn't -- you have previously posted about the standby LED being constantly on or something, which is a definitely sign that something is very wrong with the wiring, and it may destroy your empeg eventually.

EDIT: got your post confused with another thread. Ooops! smile

Cheers


Edited by mlord (09/09/2008 13:29)

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#313853 - 09/09/2008 17:50 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: mlord]
bootsy
enthusiast

Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
Thanks Guys...

Quote:
I'm curious, where is your yellow cable from the sled connected to?

I will have to look closer, but it appears it has been cut and thrown away. If I could find another wiring harness I might be able to retrofit it to the current set up. They created a special gauge pod with my sled that I would like to continue to use. I specifically asked them to make no permanent changes to the sled... but I said the exact same thing about the wiring harness. mad

Quote:
EDIT: got your post confused with another thread. Ooops!

That actually sounds like sounds like my thread I linked to in my original post. eek I would love to fix this aspect of my install, but in the short term I fear I do not have the parts or the know how to do so.

If the yellow memory wire is still attached to the sled, is the "Filter & Fuse" part something I can pick up somewhere and easily patch in?

I am familiar with the technique of reattaching wires to the sled contacts, but I have no soldering tools or skills.
_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."

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#313856 - 09/09/2008 18:06 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: sein]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: sein
I just want to clarify that this probably applies to PCATS tuners only, not the original black Empeg ones. Original tuners don't have that additional blue accessory cable IIRC.


Clarifying even further:

PCATS tuners had a blue wire coming out of them to power a powered antenna.

Factory tuners did not have a blue wire coming directly out of the tuner module box iteself, however they included a snap-in extension cable that *did* have the extra blue wire coming out of the extension cable for the powered antenna.
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Tony Fabris

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#314458 - 26/09/2008 22:29 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: tfabris]
bootsy
enthusiast

Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
Thanks to everyone for their help. I now have a working tuner and my stalk remote works!

I hope to either find an unscathed sled or wiring harness and fix that standby mode LED issue. For now I am just happy it works and required very little scary electronics work!

I have some questions about optimal stalk remote use, but I will ask those in a dedicated thread.

Thanks again!
_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."

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#314467 - 27/09/2008 12:39 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: bootsy]
newguy1
enthusiast

Registered: 26/01/2002
Posts: 276
Loc: Massachusetts,USA
Originally Posted By: bootsy
I hope to either find an unscathed sled or wiring harness and fix that standby mode LED issue. For now I am just happy it works and required very little scary electronics work!

Is the problem with the LED staying on all the time in the car?
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MIKE 80Gb RIO

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#314471 - 27/09/2008 14:47 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: newguy1]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: newguy1
Originally Posted By: bootsy
I hope to either find an unscathed sled or wiring harness and fix that standby mode LED issue. For now I am just happy it works and required very little scary electronics work!

Is the problem with the LED staying on all the time in the car?


Yeah, if your standby LED is staying on all the time, it means that you're somehow *applying* power to the blue amp remote wire instead of letting the empeg use that wire as a signal to turn the amp on and off. Something is wrong with the way the amp remote wire is connected up.
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Tony Fabris

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#314508 - 28/09/2008 18:47 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: tfabris]
bootsy
enthusiast

Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
Yes... the LED is lit in the car due to how the installer wired up the sled.

It appears if I can find an equivalent "Fuse and Filter" module to wire to the proper point on the sled, then splice to the yellow wire leading to my car, this will be fixed.

The question remains, what exactly is the "Fuse and Filter" module? Is it a simple in line fuse? Is it something I can pick up/order from a local Radio Shack?
_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."

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#314535 - 29/09/2008 03:21 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: bootsy]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
The fuse and filter module will not change the fact that the wiring is wrong (if, in fact, it truly is wrong). Add a fuse and a filter, and now you have an incorrectly-connected wire that is protected by a fuse and is noise filtered.

The fuse and filter module to which you refer is, I *think*, a small box on the yellow (constant power) wire which contains a power-line noise filter and a small fuse. If you don't have any noise problems and the wire is already fuse-protected somewhere upstream, then you don't need it. If you do need those things, then yes, you can get equivalent parts at radio shack.
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Tony Fabris

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#318480 - 27/01/2009 01:12 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: tfabris]
sWord
new poster

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 25
Originally Posted By: tfabris

Factory tuners did not have a blue wire coming directly out of the tuner module box iteself, however they included a snap-in extension cable that *did* have the extra blue wire coming out of the extension cable for the powered antenna.


I have a factory tuner module but no snap-in extension cable. Currently the antenna is activated by the ignition, and up all the time.

Is there a work-around for enabling the module itself to activate the antenna without the cable? Or is there a way of getting one?

Many thanks. I've snapped an antenna already ...

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#318483 - 27/01/2009 03:32 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: sWord]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yes, you can see if Eutronix or Rob can get you the proper extension cable that includes the correct wire.

You could also just do it yourself: add the necessary pin to the connector that plugs into the tuner module and make your own blue antenna remote wire coming off of that pin.

I think (not certain, someone needs to back me up here), that there are eight pins on the tuner connector, and seven of them are used on the sled-to-tuner plug. The one remaining pin that is currently unusued on the connector is the one that you want to be the antenna remote wire.

If you decide to go the D-I-Y route, don't just hook it up and hope it works. Check the voltage on that pin with a voltmeter as you turn the tuner on and off from the player's front panel. If it behaves accordingly, then you've got the right pin.
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Tony Fabris

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#318488 - 27/01/2009 12:50 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: tfabris]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13528
Loc: Canada
Here's where the blue wire (for power antenna) connects to the tuner end of things.


Attachments
1.png

Description: Tuner end of the extension cable.

2.png

Description: Flip side of tuner end of extension cable.



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#318492 - 27/01/2009 14:27 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: mlord]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
Fantastic! Thanks! Yes, based on the wiring diagram, that looks like it backs up my theory. Simply add a pin and a blue wire to the one unused hole on the standard tuner connector. Test its behavior with a voltmeter.

The hard part might be finding a pin for that connector, at that point, just call Eutronix anyway and get a proper extension cable. smile
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Tony Fabris

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#318497 - 27/01/2009 15:01 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: tfabris]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13528
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: tfabris
The hard part might be finding a pin for that connector, at that point, just call Eutronix anyway and get a proper extension cable. smile

The pins and connectors are also listed on the General Parts List.
Code:
Extension cable kit:
# Tuner Connector (M/F pair with pins): Molex WMF-3904PRT

Individual Parts:
# Recepticle (sled/dock end?): 39-01-2080 (digikey WM3703-ND)
# Plug (tuner end?): 39-01-2081 (digikey WM3603-ND)
# 8pc. Male contacts (pins for tuner): 39-00-0041 (digikey WM2500-ND)
# 8pc. Female contacts (pins for sled/dock): 39-00-0039 (digikey WM2501-ND)


Edited by mlord (27/01/2009 15:03)

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#318657 - 30/01/2009 19:25 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: mlord]
sWord
new poster

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 25
Tony, Mark,
Thanks very much for your help.

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#320662 - 24/03/2009 23:23 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: tfabris]
sWord
new poster

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 25
Originally Posted By: tfabris
Test its behavior with a voltmeter.

I got hold of another factory tuner and harness.
Now I'm getting a voltage from the power antenna wire.

It seems that the 12v is there from the word go.

Switching on the ignition: 11.62v --> 12.42v
Switching on the player: 12.35v
Switching on the tuner: 12.31v
Switching off Rio: 12.42v

Is this the right behaviour? I imagine -- could be wrong -- that the antenna stays down when using the player, and only comes up when the tuner module is selected.

Perhaps there's some problem with the power source for the whole set up being via the ignition and not passing through the auxiliaries circuit.

I would have thought though, that the tuner would not be giving out 12v when it wasn't in use.

Any clues?


Edited by sWord (24/03/2009 23:25)

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#320668 - 25/03/2009 15:14 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: sWord]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 30639
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: sWord
Is this the right behaviour? I imagine -- could be wrong -- that the antenna stays down when using the player, and only comes up when the tuner module is selected.


Yes, that's supposed to be its behavior. Your observed behavior indicates some kind of a problem.
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Tony Fabris

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#320676 - 25/03/2009 20:59 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: tfabris]
sWord
new poster

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 25
Originally Posted By: tfabris

Yes, that's supposed to be its behavior.

Is the slight fluctuation in voltage enough to trigger the power antenna? I can't quite see how the antenna gets the message.

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#320681 - 25/03/2009 22:58 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: sWord]
larry818
old hand

Registered: 01/10/2002
Posts: 956
Loc: Fullerton, Calif.
Do you have that wire hooked up? If you're just measuring it with a meter and otherwise open, you're probably just measuring leaking voltage. Try an led and 1K resistor.

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#320693 - 26/03/2009 02:20 Re: Tuner Issues: Installer cut wires [Re: sWord]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
Originally Posted By: sWord
Originally Posted By: tfabris

Yes, that's supposed to be its behavior.

Is the slight fluctuation in voltage enough to trigger the power antenna? I can't quite see how the antenna gets the message.

It is supposed to go from 0V to 12V.

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