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#311086 - 07/06/2008 07:37 "phantom keypresses" when in car
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Hi,

my empeg shows an annoying effect - I think it does this since I installed the PCATS tuner quite some time ago, but I am not 100% sure (the tuner works great, including stalk input).
It only happens in the car, not at home in AC mode.

What happens is that during playback, it behaves like some keys were pressed. This is usually either "next track", or the combination "next track + pause", or just "pause". Also, the "play" icon pops up in the lower left corner from time to time, which may indicate "play" is also affected.

Sometimes, I can drive for long periods without problems, sometimes it happens twice during a 20-minute drive.

I tried disabling stalk input to no avail (and verified it is really disabled), and I also tried inserting popup messages at different points in the hijack code where input events are handled - I got lots of output from IR/button/stalk events, but the phantom keys bypassed them all.

I am looking for any idea how to track this down.

cu
Michael

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#311087 - 07/06/2008 07:47 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Rincewind]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5562
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: Rincewind
What happens is that during playback, it behaves like some keys were pressed. This is usually either "next track", or the combination "next track + pause", or just "pause".


This is going to sound a little odd, but I had something similar due to my second hard disk not working correctly. The player would load the playlist correctly, but would then fail to load the track from the second disk. It would then skip tracks. I think that if the player skips too many tracks, it pauses playback. It usually happened at a track transition, rather than in the middle of the track, but you never know...

In my case, it was either a loose IDE cable, or a power problem (I reseated the cable, and I had the car battery replaced at a service a few days later).

This might not be your problem, but you're going to take forever trying to track down phantom button presses (although Hijack has some nifty stuff that can help you), so rule out HD and power supply problems first. The fact that it works fine on AC suggests to me that it might be a power supply problem.
_________________________
-- roger

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#311089 - 07/06/2008 07:57 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Rincewind]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5727
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
The blinking play symbol is something that a couple of other people, including me, have seen. It appears every 30 seconds if I remember rightly.

I don't have the other issues you talk about though. I know that the blinking play symbol that I see can't be caused by the tuner, because it happens out of the car as well.
_________________________
Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday

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#311090 - 07/06/2008 09:26 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Roger]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Hm,,

I don't think that is the cause. First, the skip/pause happens at random times - it will play the same track fine when I press back. Second, Hijack should display disk errors - I had those in the beginning before I fixed the IDE cable.

Now that you mention the harddisk - I completely forgot to tell that the problem occurs on two units: I used a friend's empeg for some time in my car, to test that the button kit installation that I did for him worked fine. I then swapped the harddisk back into my player. Both units show the same behaviour, so the problem must be either in the car/tuner/power supply external to the player, or the disk.

cu
Michael

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#311092 - 07/06/2008 11:35 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Rincewind]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1627
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Is it possible your units have the fascia over tightened and the vibration in the car is causing multiple simultaneous button presses? Just a thought. You might try loosening the fascia screws or even riding around without lens, button caps and fascia to see if the problem goes away.

Hope this helps,
Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#311093 - 07/06/2008 12:11 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: maczrool]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Hi,

I am quite sure it is not caused by the front buttons being pressed. During my experiments, I had debug messages attached to the buttons in hijack, which triggered when pressing the buttons, but not during the phantom events.

cu
Michael

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#311095 - 08/06/2008 05:06 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Rincewind]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 1949
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
You mentioned it may have happened since the tuner was installed. The fact it happens on two unrelated empegs means it's more than likely an issue with the install.

Is it possible the tuner is creating stalk events? You say you had debug messages attached to the buttons. The stalk events are different to the button events (IIRC) although they may do the same thing like skip a track.

You could just temporarily unplug the tuner. If it happens just once without the tuner, you can at least rule it out then.
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

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#311100 - 08/06/2008 13:34 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Shonky]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3443
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
Isn't there a hijack command to disable the stalk?
_________________________
~ John

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#311101 - 08/06/2008 14:34 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: JBjorgen]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: JBjorgen
Isn't there a hijack command to disable the stalk?

I think so, although it may be slightly broken - I had some issues with completely disabling stalk, so I added my own code to hijack, together with a menu to enable/disable stalk on the fly - this worked insofar as my stalk was disabled when it was supposed to, but the phantom events still showed up :-(

cu
Michael

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#311102 - 08/06/2008 15:03 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Rincewind]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31064
Loc: Seattle, WA
There is a FAQ entry about the IR sensor and missed interrupts. See if that applies?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#311104 - 08/06/2008 15:28 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Rincewind]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13829
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Rincewind
Originally Posted By: JBjorgen
Isn't there a hijack command to disable the stalk?

I think so, although it may be slightly broken


It most certainly is not broken.

If you use it and still get phantom events, then you can be 100% certain that they are not coming from the stalk wiring.

-ml

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#311109 - 08/06/2008 17:57 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: tfabris]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: tfabris
There is a FAQ entry about the IR sensor and missed interrupts. See if that applies?

Not when at home - I will see if I can check while in the car, the problem is I have no easy access to the serial port there.

cu
Michael

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#311130 - 09/06/2008 04:52 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: mlord]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: mlord

It most certainly is not broken.

If you use it and still get phantom events, then you can be 100% certain that they are not coming from the stalk wiring.

-ml


I have to re-check this, since the first attempts were some time ago, but when I tried, the stalk still worked, even when it was supposed to be disabled.

cu
Michael

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#311139 - 09/06/2008 13:47 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Rincewind]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31064
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Rincewind

I have to re-check this, since the first attempts were some time ago, but when I tried, the stalk still worked, even when it was supposed to be disabled.


The correct steps to do the stalk thing are in the same FAQ entry about the missed interrupts, here. Try the stalk entry in config.ini and see if the problem goes away.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#311186 - 09/06/2008 18:52 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: tfabris]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: tfabris

The correct steps to do the stalk thing are in the same FAQ entry about the missed interrupts, here. Try the stalk entry in config.ini and see if the problem goes away.

Thanks. At least at home, the missed interrupts look sane (less then 20, not increasing over 30 minutes).

I managed to disconnect the tuner without pulling out the cage - I will watch if the problem is gone and report back.

cu
Michael

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#311497 - 21/06/2008 13:54 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: mlord]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: mlord

It most certainly is not broken.
-ml


Hm - not sure who is the culprit, but further testing shows that
[hijack]
stalk_enabled=0

does not work (ie. the stalk is still active) unless I put a ";" on the end of the line. Without the comment, hijack complains about an unparseable line (which I only noticed today, with a serial console attached).

cu
Michael

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#311498 - 21/06/2008 14:01 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: tfabris]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: tfabris

The correct steps to do the stalk thing are in the same FAQ entry about the missed interrupts, here. Try the stalk entry in config.ini and see if the problem goes away.


Okay, here is the current status of my investigations:
- With the tuner disconnected, absolutely no phantom keypresses have turned up. This should also mean that the IR receiver is not the culprit (unless the tuner somehow influences the IR receiver and only when in the car).

Today, I re-attached the tuner and disabled the stalk input using the hijack config entry. I verified that the stalk is really dead now. During a one hour drive, I had 3 phantom events again.

This means that somehow the tuner is causing this, but not via the stalk input channel. Any good ideas what might be going on here?

cu
Michael

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#311500 - 21/06/2008 15:34 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Rincewind]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31064
Loc: Seattle, WA
So you're saying it needs to read:
[hijack]
stalk_enabled=0;

?

I've edited the corresponding FAQ entry to read that way.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#311505 - 21/06/2008 19:38 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Rincewind]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3137
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Rincewind
Originally Posted By: mlord

It most certainly is not broken.


Hm - not sure who is the culprit, but further testing shows that
[hijack]
stalk_enabled=0

does not work (ie. the stalk is still active) unless I put a ";" on the end of the line. Without the comment, hijack complains about an unparseable line (which I only noticed today, with a serial console attached).

Strange. Mark put that feature into hijack specifically at my request, and it's works just fine, for me, without the ";".

I'm curious... are you editing the config file in Windows? Maybe there's a ^M at the end of the line, or something, which the ";" masks.

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#311506 - 22/06/2008 05:12 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: canuckInOR]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: canuckInOR

I'm curious... are you editing the config file in Windows? Maybe there's a ^M at the end of the line, or something, which the ";" masks.

No. I used joe and ncftp in Linux. I can do more detailed checks when I am back at home next week.

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#311571 - 26/06/2008 19:10 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: tfabris]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: tfabris
So you're saying it needs to read:
[hijack]
stalk_enabled=0;

?

I've edited the corresponding FAQ entry to read that way.


Exactly that. A single trailing semicolon is enough. Without the semicolon, I get errors on *all* commands in the [hijack] section:
[hijack] ERROR: "stalk_debug=1"
[hijack] ERROR: "stalk_enabled=1"
[hijack] ERROR: "volume_boost_FM=4"
[hijack] ERROR: "volume_boost_AM=4"
[hijack] ERROR: "volume_boost_AUX=0"

This is hijack v485, but the changelog does not indicate any fixes in that area in newer versions - I stay at v485 currently in order not to change behaviour while tracing down the original problem ...

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#311572 - 26/06/2008 19:19 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: Rincewind]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31064
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Rincewind
Without the semicolon, I get errors on *all* commands in the [hijack] section


Wow, that's odd. Really sounds like extra bytes being added to the end of each line.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#311573 - 26/06/2008 19:29 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car - it gets weirder ... [Re: Rincewind]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Hi,

I managed to install a serial cable in the car so I could connect an old notebook to the empeg, do do some printk debugging.

I added printk's in the read function in multiple drivers:
- empeg_input
- empeg_rds
- empeg_state
- empeg_usb
plus in hijack.c (hijack_enq_button, hijack_handle_button).
This works fine - I get debug output from IR events, button presses, stalk ... plus regular 8-byte reads from the RDS device.

Now the strange thing is: when the empeg switches to the next track or pauses during playback, nothing shows up (except the regular rds reads, which continue as usual).

So it seems I am still missing some channel via which the player gets these annoying events - where should I look?

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#311574 - 26/06/2008 19:51 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car - it gets weirder ... [Re: Rincewind]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31064
Loc: Seattle, WA
That's quite interesting!

Another place I can think that the empeg would interpret commands would be from the serial port. Serial commands can make it switch tracks.

I can also imagine that it might pause during playback or switch tracks if it hits a corrupted MP3 file.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#311582 - 27/06/2008 07:02 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: tfabris]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 13829
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: tfabris
Originally Posted By: Rincewind
Without the semicolon, I get errors on *all* commands in the [hijack] section


Wow, that's odd. Really sounds like extra bytes being added to the end of each line.


Yeah, exactly. The idea of *requiring* a trailing semi-colon on each line is absolutely bogus.

Cheers

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#311584 - 27/06/2008 08:40 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: mlord]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
How are you editing the config file? Windows editor and its converting it to DOS line endings?

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#311590 - 27/06/2008 13:50 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: tman]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31064
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: tman
How are you editing the config file? Windows editor and its converting it to DOS line endings?


He stated earlier in the thread what editor he was using. Non-windows, IIRC. I'm not familiar with the editor so I don't know whether it would be a factor or not.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#311596 - 27/06/2008 15:25 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: tfabris]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3137
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: tfabris
Originally Posted By: tman
How are you editing the config file? Windows editor and its converting it to DOS line endings?


He stated earlier in the thread what editor he was using. Non-windows, IIRC. I'm not familiar with the editor so I don't know whether it would be a factor or not.

Linux and joe. Joe has a "-crlf" option, so I'd imagine that it can autodetect if a file already has it, and "do the right thing" transparently [and it does].

I'd suggest running dos2unix on the config file before putting it back on the player, and see if that resolves the problem.

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#311598 - 27/06/2008 17:45 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: tfabris]
Rincewind
new poster

Registered: 08/10/2005
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: tfabris
Wow, that's odd. Really sounds like extra bytes being added to the end of each line.


I am quite sure that's not the case. Not sure if this gets through unwrapped, this is the beginning of the config.ini:
0: 5B 68 69 6A 61 63 6B 5D 0A 73 74 61 6C 6B 5F 65 [hijack].stalk_e
10: 6E 61 62 6C 65 64 3D 30 0A 73 74 61 6C 6B 5F 64 nabled=0.stalk_d
20: 65 62 75 67 3D 31 3B 0A 74 72 61 63 65 5F 74 75 ebug=1;.trace_tu

Hijack complains about "stalk_enabled=0", but not about "stalk_debug=1;". I edit that file locally and send it to the empeg using ncftp (yes, I tried "binary", although that is the default).

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#348578 - 28/10/2011 18:11 Re: "phantom keypresses" when in car [Re: maczrool]
Daria
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/01/2002
Posts: 3926
Loc: Somerville, MA
hm. guess i should try taking the fascia off. started getting phantom pause/unpause when i hit bumps!

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