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#292900 - 24/03/2007 11:57 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: julf]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
No, you haven't missed anything. I'll send payment instructions for the second batch when I finish assembling the first batch. All 10 of the first batch have been paid for, so I don't think anyone will change their mind.

Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#292901 - 24/03/2007 13:29 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: maczrool]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1102
Loc: UK
Quote:
Patrick sent us the RS-274D files, but since what we really needed were extended gerbers, I ended up extracted them myself.


Are you sure? I could have sworn I sent the RS-274X version. You should have mentioned it, it's easy to get the X variant out of ranger XL.

Quote:
That Ranger app was just no fun and if I can help someone avoid using it I will


Funny, I've always thought the same about Orcad and Pads, which are much more common And MUCH MUCH more expensive. Mind you, I have been using one variant or other of Ranger since about 1988, and I've got a really huge library of tested part definitions I've produced over the years. Bear in mind all the versions of the empeg were made with ranger 2!

It would be much easier if there was some common definition langauage for exporting/importing PCB layouts and schematics between packages, but 90% of the PCB cad companies out there would cut off their own legs to avoid this happening. Might allow people to change suppliers, you see

I can use Orcad, etc, just don't like them too much. And certainly can't afford them.

Pca
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Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#292902 - 24/03/2007 13:47 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: pca]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Quote:
Patrick sent us the RS-274D files, but since what we really needed were extended gerbers, I ended up extracted them myself.



Are you sure? I could have sworn I sent the RS-274X version. You should have mentioned it, it's easy to get the X variant out of ranger XL.


Yep, I'm sure although you offered to reformat in X. By the time the files came in I had already sorted it out most of the way anyway, so it was just easier not to bother you .

Orcad is very expensive indeed. I believe the new version starts at about $7500? Oh well. I just think Ranger is way different from Orcad. I totally understand about your part libraries. They can be a pain to get just right.

Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#292903 - 24/03/2007 20:13 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: maczrool]
music
addict

Registered: 25/06/2002
Posts: 456
Quote:
Orcad is very expensive indeed. I believe the new version starts at about $7500? Oh well.


That is indeed expensive.

However, if you want to see ultra-crazy CAD software pricing, check out the price for single-seat licenses of IC Design software sometime.

Tools from Synopsys, Cadence, Magma, etc. tend to run over $50,000 per tool.
Even HSPICE isn't too cheap.

I have a friend who has a laptop with well over $200,000 worth of IC CAD software on it!

He tends to keep an eye on that laptop....

I don't know anything about even more limited-demand CAD markets.

But I have to conjecture that somewhere there must be one person that designs the software used to make chemical plants or oil refineries, and that she sells two licenses per year at a gatrillion dollars apiece.

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#292904 - 24/03/2007 20:38 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: music]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
Quote:

But I have to conjecture that somewhere there must be one person that designs the software used to make ... oil refineries, and that she sells two licenses per year at a gatrillion dollars apiece.


Mmm.. sounds a little like what Mach does.

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#292905 - 24/03/2007 22:26 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: maczrool]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 2009
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Quote:
Quote:
I'm just fighting to get something useful out of this silly Ranger PCB/schematic program that I can use i.e. probably gerbers since Ranger seems unknown to every CAD/PCB package I have.



I didn't mean to sound defensive .

I spent several hours wrestling the gerbers from the Ranger files. I ended up having to talk to tech support at Seetrax before getting it to give me something I could use. It helped a lot to use Ranger XL by the way. Patrick sent us the RS-274D files, but since what we really needed were extended gerbers, I ended up extracted them myself. If you'd like the files that Alvin used to have these made, just PM me and I'll send them your way. That Ranger app was just no fun and if I can help someone avoid using it I will .

Stu


Didn't think you were being defensive. Sent you a PM.

For the record we use Altium (nee Protel) which we just spent $22k upgrading to the latest version - full retail was $35k. About $9k for a single PCB/schematic license. It does do some nice stuff though.
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Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

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#292906 - 24/03/2007 23:36 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: Shonky]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I like the ability to make curved traces. Don't think Ranger offers that .

It's funny you mentioned you were planning to engineer your own extender board. As you may have seen, I was going to do the same thing, and when I saw these schematics I noticed how overbuilt mine would have been. It would have been much more than $260 for sure.

Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#292907 - 25/03/2007 18:25 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: maczrool]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
Here's an odd thought about 5 years too late:

Maybe the number of PCBs required could drop to one if it could do both ends of the job. Combine the features of both empeg-side and display-side boards into one, give each person two of the same board, but only populate the necessary transistors for each. Not only would it remove an entire PCB, but it would double the order quantity of the remaining PCB.

5 years too late, not worth mentioning, but interesting. Still trying to convince myself to take 2nd run spot number 10 for when I have a car without DIN... in 2014.
_________________________
-
FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#292908 - 25/03/2007 18:28 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: FireFox31]
FireFox31
pooh-bah

Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
You know what, I'll take one. The amount of money some people I know spend on things like fashion, $300 for a useful device which will last for years is pocket change. I'll take one, fully built, payment upon order.
_________________________
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FireFox31
110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set

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#292909 - 25/03/2007 18:43 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: FireFox31]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
I'll add you to the list Chris.

Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#292910 - 25/03/2007 18:47 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: maczrool]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA


1-thirdeyevision (2)
2-julf (1)
3-mtempsch (1)
4-andy (1)
5-matthew_k (1)
5-caseyse (1)
6-LittleBlueThing (1)
7-EtN (1)
8-juenk (1)
9-thirdeyevision's friend (1)
10-FireFox31 (1)
11-robricc (1)


We are at 13 board sets now, but that really isn't a problem since I haven't placed the order. I can place the order in any multiple of 5 sets. Also, some on the list were notified about a week ago, but have not read their PMs, so they may never come forward.

Stu


Edited by maczrool (26/03/2007 17:24)

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#292911 - 26/03/2007 13:25 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
One observation: A lot of the components on the receiver board seem to be related to the onboard 12V sourced PSU -- which is not actually needed or used. I wonder if there's any worthwhile cost savings to be had there?

-ml

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#292912 - 26/03/2007 13:27 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: pca]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
Mine arrived first thing this morning, thanks. Looks rather fetching -- nice clean layout and all.

Cheers

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#292913 - 26/03/2007 13:49 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
A lot of the components on the receiver board seem to be related to the onboard 12V sourced PSU -- which is not actually needed or used.


I thought about that, but decided it was best to let the flexibility of a dual power supplies remain. One never knows if the need for a 100 meter run will arise at some point. The cost added is probably around $15 - $20.

Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#292914 - 26/03/2007 14:23 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: maczrool]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5914
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Quote:

One never knows if the need for a 100 meter run will arise at some point.


We just need to find someone with their own 737 that needs an empeg install in the cockpit with the main unit in the tail...
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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday

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#292915 - 26/03/2007 14:27 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Quote:
A lot of the components on the receiver board seem to be related to the onboard 12V sourced PSU -- which is not actually needed or used.


I thought about that, but decided it was best to let the flexibility of a dual power supplies remain. One never knows if the need for a 100 meter run will arise at some point. The cost added is probably around $15 - $20.


Plus labour.

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#292916 - 26/03/2007 14:30 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Plus labour.


Included .

Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#292917 - 26/03/2007 14:46 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: andy]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31563
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
We just need to find someone with their own 737 that needs an empeg install in the cockpit with the main unit in the tail...

What, you think MarkM designed them to be capable of 100 meter runs for no reason at all?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#292918 - 26/03/2007 22:25 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: andy]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
Quote:

One never knows if the need for a 100 meter run will arise at some point.


We just need to find someone with their own 737 that needs an empeg install in the cockpit with the main unit in the tail...

The Auxiliary Player Unit, of course.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#292919 - 27/03/2007 01:23 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: tfabris]
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I thought that I tested it for 100 feet, not meters. Patrick Arnold did the design - I was just a paper pusher on this project.

I will share a little story Patrick shared with me prior to the design. He created a similar design to extend EIDE drives for long distances. He mentioned that his testing consisted of using a very old drill with a metal housing. You know, the kind where you can see sparks coming off of the brushes. He wrapped the EIDE cable around the drill and ran the drill during the test trying to introduce a great deal of interference - the design worked perfectly. At that point, I knew I was working with the right engineer for the project.

Be sure to spec zero halogen cable for those 737 installations.

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#292920 - 27/03/2007 05:42 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: MarkM]
LittleBlueThing
addict

Registered: 11/01/2002
Posts: 612
Loc: Reading, UK
So MarkM, reading the posts suggests you may do some 'interesting' installs on some nice cars...

If that's the case, have you come across the 2005 model Jaguar XK? I have an install problem with it....
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LittleBlueThing Running twin 30's

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#292921 - 27/03/2007 18:53 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: LittleBlueThing]
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I have very little experience in hands-on installation - I leave that work to the pro install shops. It's often frustrating for people who do this every day.

That said - lets hear it. Online forums or a dealer service manual are your friend. Post your problem here, chances are someone has the answer.

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#292922 - 27/03/2007 20:24 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: MarkM]
LittleBlueThing
addict

Registered: 11/01/2002
Posts: 612
Loc: Reading, UK
Well I would really like to take out the standard DIN Jag head unit and replace it with the empeg - it'll look better than having to make something up for the extender.

The problem is that when you remove the head unit the satnav doesn't work. Rumour suggests that the satnav notices the head unit security state (ie missing or 'code' not entered).

So I need to bypass the satnav security - quite specific to Jaguar (and Google suggests maybe Volvo) I guess.
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LittleBlueThing Running twin 30's

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#292923 - 27/03/2007 22:45 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: LittleBlueThing]
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
You might check here. http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/jaguar/jaguar_xk/ The site seems to have some good information, but also seems to be served up by an empeg via the serial port - S L O W.

Interesting article, note that the 2004 XK in on the list of cars to avoid because the navigation audio plays through the stereo system. http://www.caraudiomag.com/specialfeatures/0408cae_oem/

You might want to contact this seller.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Custom-Ja...bayphotohosting


Edited by MarkM (27/03/2007 23:32)

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#292924 - 28/03/2007 00:04 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: MarkM]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
I thought that I tested it for 100 feet, not meters.

Ooh, so this is telling me that while the extender is probably going to work fine in my 959, setting it up in the 757 is probably a no-go.

Stuart, let me give that second one some thought.
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Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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#292925 - 28/03/2007 00:30 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: jimhogan]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Ooh, so this is telling me that while the extender is probably going to work fine in my 959, setting it up in the 757 is probably a no-go.


Haha . MarkM may not have tested beyond 100 feet, but Patrick has. Patrick says he's tested it to 100 meters, and I think he said somewhere it might work up to 200 meters! Now who is going to put it to the test and see what the limit really is?

Stu
_________________________
If you want it to break, buy Sony!

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#292926 - 28/03/2007 01:06 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: maczrool]
mlord
carpal tunnel

Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14472
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Patrick says he's tested it to 100 meters, and I think he said somewhere it might work up to 200 meters! Now who is going to put it to the test and see what the limit really is?

Stu


Well, that's pretty obvious: the only guy here who we all *know* has (or will have soon) over 100m of ribbon cable is..

..lemmesee.. say, another 15 of these yet to be assembled/sold/shipped = 15 * 7m each = 105m of ribbon cable, Stu!

Cheer

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#292927 - 28/03/2007 01:25 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: mlord]
maczrool
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/01/2002
Posts: 1649
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Well, that's pretty obvious: the only guy here who we all *know* has (or will have soon) over 100m of ribbon cable is..

..lemmesee.. say, another 15 of these yet to be assembled/sold/shipped = 15 * 7m each = 105m of ribbon cable, Stu!



I can do a 100 feet right now, but beyond that it's just pieces that have already been cut to 20 foot lengths. I'm trying to find 200 meter+ spool, so far I can't seem to find one longer than 100 feet and we already know that works .


Edit: I did locate a reasonably priced 100 meter spool. I might use that for the next batch and just for fun attach a connector to either end and fire up the extenders before cutting it up. Still, it would be more fun to try it on a 200 meter or more cable.


Stu


Edited by maczrool (28/03/2007 01:42)

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#292928 - 28/03/2007 03:23 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: maczrool]
MarkM
stranger

Registered: 11/12/2000
Posts: 105
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
This is too funny. Now I'm thinking of a neat picture at Qwest field with a ribbon cable running from one endzone to the other. That would be one for the empeg archives.

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#292929 - 28/03/2007 03:41 Re: We Have Lights! [Re: MarkM]
jimhogan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 06/10/1999
Posts: 2591
Loc: Seattle, WA, U.S.A.
Quote:
This is too funny. Now I'm thinking of a neat picture at Qwest field with a ribbon cable running from one endzone to the other. That would be one for the empeg archives.

Now if you get the manager of Qwest field to sit with some headphones in one end zone with the remote display (while controlling the Empeg in the other end zone) that would be cool.

But no outputs on the display. 100 meter headphone cord.
_________________________
Jim


'Tis the exceptional fellow who lies awake at night thinking of his successes.

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