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#64736 - 07/02/2002 12:34 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: ]
eternalsun
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
Don't be silly. 4 cylinder engines have broken into the 7s already (albeit in heavily modified form). Not only can 4 cylinder engines hang with V-10 vipers, they can beat them hands down.

Around here, it's rather common to take a $5000 4 cylinder car, put $3000 worth of *light* modifications on it, and run low 12s all day long. At the strip. I don't know anything about Hondas, but DSMs are breaking into the low 8s in streetable form. http://www.heckconsulting.com/dsm/drag.html. Buschur's car runs a 5 second 1/8th mile, 8 second quarter with a top speed of 172 mph. If he raced a viper from a standstill, the viper would be a dot in his rear view mirror for a long, long time, well after the quarter mile even.

Calvin

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#64737 - 07/02/2002 13:13 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: rob]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
There are only a few places on the major highways here in Colorado that the speed limit is 65 or lower. The cities are usually set to 55, or the outer edges 65. (This is just due to all the traffic entering a small highway). Between cities, it's 75, except on certain parts of I-70, due to the very windy mountain road.

California is one of the worst places to judge the roads in the US.
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Tom

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#64738 - 07/02/2002 13:24 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: drakino]
Anonymous
Unregistered


You can get anything to run 12's if you put enough money into it. I think he said his was stock except for the turbo. And it may very well run 12's. The fastest street 4cyl I have ever seen personally was maybe good for a 15. I know they have them at the strip running on NOS with a blower, all-wheel drive, varible valve timing or whatever, but why spend all that money on NOS or a blower on a 4cyl when you could put it on a V8? I guess like how some people just don't 'get' the empeg, I don't 'get' why you would want to race or soup-up a high-rev import 4cyl. I prefer the raw low-end power of a v8.


Edited by Yz33d (07/02/2002 13:34)

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#64739 - 07/02/2002 13:33 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: altman]
beaker
addict

Registered: 19/08/2000
Posts: 588
Loc: England
I used to top 160MPH (indicated) every day when I was commuting back and forth between Hatfield/Welwyn Garden & Hitchin up the A1(M) on my Yam (FZR1000 Genesis). Usually though I'd use the B656 between Welwyn Village & Hitchin - much more fun, nice & twisty. I did manage 150MPH a few times along here but I had a few scary moments when I'd come across a Deer or Pheasant crossing the road . Another road I like is Coopers Green Lane between Welwyn Garden & St Albans. I used to get about 145 in a couple of places along there. Unfortunately I sold the bike about six months ago to a guy at work who's got a permanent grin from ear-to-ear now.
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Marcus 32 gig MKII (various colours) & 30gig MKIIa

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#64740 - 07/02/2002 13:37 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: ]
SE_Sport_Driver
carpal tunnel

Registered: 05/01/2001
Posts: 4903
Loc: Detroit, MI USA
We aren't talking THAT much money (despite all those stupid lines from theFast andthe Furious). Sure, it takes a ton of cash to make a Civic fast, but the DSM Eclipses already have turbo. A simple boost-controller and minor intake and/or exhaust mods make that car INSANE! The engine may not last that long with the abuse, but the DSM's are very "mod" friendly.
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Brad B.

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#64741 - 07/02/2002 13:46 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: beaker]
acurasquirrel
member

Registered: 10/01/2002
Posts: 186
Loc: Georgia
Ok let me clarify I ran 12.7@118. My car was dynoed at 265 hp to the wheels. I was running slicks with 19 pounds of pressure and I stripped out the back seat passenger seat, and spare tire. So the weight of the car plus me plus the quarter tank of gas was probably about 2600. And I did cheat and I ran 10 pounds of boost at the track, you woulda thought after the first engine I would have learned. I mean sure I can probably keep up with a stock Viper, but once any v8 starts doing serious mods Im left in the dust Ill admit, I mean there is only so much you can do with 1.8 liters.

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#64742 - 07/02/2002 14:14 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: ]
eternalsun
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
This is going way off topic, so this will be pretty much my last post on this. There is not a single person that I know that runs NOS. DSMs can run into the 14s with free mods (modifying bcs, solenoids, etc). With about $500 you can bring that into the mid 13s. With about $750 more you can bring it into the high 12s. With about $1500 more you can bring it into the low 12s. That's a 3400 pound car. None of these modifications involve NOS. On race gas DSMs are known to run 25 pounds of boost without issue.

You can buy a DSM for $4000.

Nobody is talking about throwing a lot of money into a car. But for about $7000 you can have a car that hangs with the Vipers and Ferraris. How much *DOES* a Viper cost? While it is true you can get into 12s with enough money, the better question is how much *additional* horsepower can you get at what price. How much money does it take to add another 100 horsepower to a Viper? How about the next 100 horsepower? If Henessey is any indication, hopping up V8s is a rich man's game.

Anyway, you may prefer the "raw low end" versus a turbocharged high end, but in all honesty, in a real race with real drivers, the outcome is decided in the first 60 feet. An Eclipse GSX would be halfway down the track and in "raw high end" territory and finishing the race, while your pumped up V8 is still at the starting line spinning its tires in a raw show of what?

And don't forget, in autocross racing, they often start the race on an L-bend which means a v8 doesn't really buy you as much as you think.

I think in the end, it's not about money, it's not about torque, or even the number of cylinders. I suspect you would be just as biased against a Japanese V8. The facts bear out that for very little money, you can be ridiculously fast. If you have to puzzle over why anyone would race an import 4 cylinder, then you've probably never, ever sat in one that broke into the 11s. What it feels like is sheer terror as you're crushed back into your seat, with the speedometer needle moving as fast as a rpm needle in an ordinary car. It never lets up.

Calvin

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#64743 - 07/02/2002 14:22 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: ]
SuperQ
addict

Registered: 13/06/2000
Posts: 429
Loc: Berlin, DE
as I said in a previous post, it's not just about how much displacement is in the engine, it's also about the weight of the car, both dead, and moving..

a cousin of mine has a Audi S4 dual turbo, which has not quiet as much hp, or top-end speed as his previous car, a camero SS (i belive, it was the high-end model) The S4 is off the line faster, and doesn't "steer like a cow" (he also mentioned it can actualy stop faster too, allways a good thing)

tho I will admit that the S4 is a V6.. not quiet as heavy as the V8, but not as cool as the little 1.8L turbo in the standard A4
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80gig red mk2 -- 080000125
(No, I don't actually hate Alan Cox)

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#64744 - 07/02/2002 14:29 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: SuperQ]
eternalsun
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
Cool in temperature?

Calvin

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#64745 - 07/02/2002 15:33 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: acurasquirrel]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
So, where's the answer to tanstaafl?
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Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Q#5196 MkII #080000376, 18GB green MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue

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#64746 - 07/02/2002 16:17 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: tanstaafl.]
acurasquirrel
member

Registered: 10/01/2002
Posts: 186
Loc: Georgia
Well since CV=(bore)(stroke)^2(pi/4)
The bore and stroke would both be about 9.31 cm.
If you increase the stroke making the engine oversquare you loss revabilty do to increased sideloading but you do gain torque.
If you decrease the stroke you gain revabilty but loss displacement unless you bore out to the cylinder.
In the world of Honda B-series engines the best engine for revability is the b16A which can be found in the Civic Si this engine is undersquare and can easily with a proper valvetrain rev past 10,000 rpms. The other B-series engines that I'll discuss are the b18B1, b18c1 and b18c5 found in the LS , GSR, and type-R respectively(both b18c engines have the same geometry so ill treat them as one). The b18b1 has the worst rod ratio of the bunch (on a side not this engine is not VTEC and alot of kids think by putting a VTEC head on this block you can rev to 8000 rpms like in the GSR, well this is not the case due to the poor rod ratio [the LS engine has a lower CR therefore it likes turbo hince]) it has a bit more displacement than the b18c engines at 1834 cc instead of 1797cc. The stroke of the b18b engine is 89mm and the bore is 81mm thus making the engine oversquare as stated before. The b18c engines have a stroke of 87.2mm and a bore of 81mm making this less oversquare making them more revable......along with alot of F1 technology.

I have a question for you. What is the benefit of valve overlap at high rpms and what is the benefit of a stepped exhaust manifold and why? These question are related feel free to discuss flow velocity versus flow volume in your discussion.
Cheers


Edited by acurasquirrel (07/02/2002 16:35)

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#64747 - 07/02/2002 16:22 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: acurasquirrel]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31150
Loc: Seattle, WA
It's frightening when engineering types get into a pissing contest.

Slide rules at ten paces... Ready, aim, calculate!
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Tony Fabris

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#64748 - 07/02/2002 17:13 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: acurasquirrel]
bonzi
pooh-bah

Registered: 13/09/1999
Posts: 2401
Loc: Croatia
This becomes fun. Move over to OT and continue...
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Dragi "Bonzi" Raos Q#5196 MkII #080000376, 18GB green MkIIa #040103247, 60GB blue

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#64749 - 07/02/2002 17:13 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: acurasquirrel]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3824
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Holy crap... my engine will go to 10,000RPM?! That's nuts. Ya learn something new every day. It still freaks me out when i rev it to 7,000!
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|| loren ||

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#64750 - 07/02/2002 17:16 Re: Post VW install, and sound quality side effect [Re: bonzi]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31150
Loc: Seattle, WA
Move over to OT and continue...

Agreed. Locking thread, too far off topic.

This is fun, so please do continue in the off-topic forum.
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Tony Fabris

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