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#72777 - 17/02/2002 21:11 Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2
grgcombs
addict

Registered: 03/07/2001
Posts: 663
Loc: Dallas, TX
I love the hardware of the XBox ... Dolby Digial, NVidia, and a hard drive. I also love Halo, but it'll be on PC Real Soon Now.

I loved Gran Turismo 1 and Tokyo Extreme Racer (dreamcast).

I really enjoy a good street car simulator, especially if you get to add hop-ups like turbos, trannys, exhaust, etc.

Are you starting to see my problem yet? I got the okay to get a PS2 or XBox, but each has exclusive things that I like. The hardware for XBox, the games for PS2.

If they made a street racing simulator that fits my tastes for XBox, I'd be all over it. But so far, all I can find that comes close is Project Gotham, which doesn't do hop-ups and is much more arcadey, so I hear.

Can anyone give me a ray of hope here? Anyone hear of a good racing game like this coming out for XBox?

This sucks. But not as bad as not getting either one.

Greg
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#72778 - 17/02/2002 21:15 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: grgcombs]
hybrid8
carpal tunnel

Registered: 12/11/2001
Posts: 7738
Loc: Toronto, CANADA
Always go for the titles when it comes to consoles. The hardware in the XBOX is outdated. The games are Dreamcast ports with not much else added to them. The Xbox will be one hurting system by the upcoming holiday season.

Buy a PS2 and a Gamecube.

Bruno
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Bruno
Twisted Melon : Fine Mac OS Software

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#72779 - 17/02/2002 21:20 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: grgcombs]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I've never found a racing game that comes anywhere near matching Gran Turismo. Period. Even though the GTs have a lot of issues, all the rest of them don't even approach the features.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#72780 - 17/02/2002 21:27 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: hybrid8]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31159
Loc: Seattle, WA
Buy a PS2 and a Gamecube.

No kidding, for the price of an Xbox, you could almost afford both the PS2 and the Gamecube.

My only complaint about the PS2 is the controllers. The four buttons are all exactly the same shape and size, and are symmetrically arranged in two axes. For multi-button games like EA's NHL, I always end up passing instead of shooting or vice-versa. The Gamecube controller is like a breath of fresh air after using a PS2 controller.

Anyone have any comments on the Xbox's controller? Other than that you immediately wish it were a mouse the instant you start playing Halo...
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Tony Fabris

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#72781 - 17/02/2002 21:30 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: tfabris]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Yeah. It's awful. Okay, I've only played it at the stores (and then only when the XBox hasn't crashed [snigger]), but it's beyond non-ergonomic. It's like they decided that the appropriate shape would be a brick with handles too big for Andre The Giant's hands.
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Bitt Faulk

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#72782 - 17/02/2002 21:34 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: wfaulk]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Which is insane because the PS1 controller is world-renowned as one of the best ergonomic and functional controller designs ever. Its only possible rival would be the Atari racing/paddle controllers.

Not sure how they managed to screw up the PS2 controller so much.

Edit: Just realized you were commenting on the XBox controller. Oh well, consider this a reply to the previous post about PS2 controllers.
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- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#72783 - 17/02/2002 21:39 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: tonyc]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
The PS and PS2 controllers are virtually identical ... aren't they?
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#72784 - 17/02/2002 22:19 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: wfaulk]
Happy Birthday Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12030
Loc: Sterling, VA
Too true. Sure, I've also only played in stores, but I can't imagine the test audience had the controllers in their hands that long either. Supposedly Microsoft did do some testing to find out what people prefered, and came up with that! I think they're insane. The buttons feel wierd, the controller is huge, it's just terrible.

I like the GamCube controller, but I think it's the opposite of what you were complaining about, Tony. I think it needs some similar buttons on it. "A" is huge and there's a little "b" beside it. Then those buttons encircling them. I think they needed at least two similar buttons next to each other. It seems that when a new system gets designed, the manufacturers say "there were some complaints about the last system's controller. so lets throw away everything, including the things people actually liked, and start again from scratch." I thought the N64 controllers were pretty good, especially the button layout. I can't imagine any other layout for the Zelda games. (speaking of the Zelda games, don't let this thread get off topic, start a new one to rant about Nintendo's ridiculous redesign for Link )
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Matt

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#72785 - 17/02/2002 23:35 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: wfaulk]
BAKup
addict

Registered: 11/11/2001
Posts: 552
Loc: Houston, TX
Penny-Arcade's Take on the controller for the X-Box.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-08-29

Another Controller shot, and their take on Halo.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-11-28&res=l
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--Ben
78GB MkIIa, Dead tuner.

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#72786 - 17/02/2002 23:44 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: grgcombs]
Happy Birthday Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12030
Loc: Sterling, VA
The only reason I'd get any of the new systems is for GTA3. But that's coming out for the PC soon anyway. Maybe when the PS2 is $50.

Now excuse me while I go whip out my Master System. Hells yeah...
_________________________
Matt

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#72787 - 18/02/2002 00:03 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: grgcombs]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
just get all three then you won't have to worry if you got the right one.

I thought the xbox controller was too big when I tried it in the store but after playing through munchs odysee with it I like it
the only game I wanted / is coming soon was munchs odysee (I hate FPS) so I probably won't be using mine for a while

I really hate to say it but if you can only get one I would probably get the ps2 just because it will have more games than anyone else
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Matt

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#72788 - 18/02/2002 01:00 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: Dignan]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31159
Loc: Seattle, WA
I think it needs some similar buttons on it. "A" is huge and there's a little "b" beside it. Then those buttons encircling them. I think they needed at least two similar buttons next to each other.

Either you're being sarcastic, or I think you're smoking something.

The GameCube's button layout is absolutely perfect. I never, repeat NEVER press the wrong button accidentally. Even when every single button is used (like on Rogue Leader), I have absolutely no problem going straight to the correct button, even in the middle of an extremely complex dogfight. For instance, during the battle over Endor (does anyone else think that's one of the coolest moments in gaming, next to the first encounter with Cyberdemon in Doom?).

Everything about the GameCube controller is totally intuitive. Even the finger triggers, which are smooth sliders, are sensitive for varying amounts of throttle/brake, and when you depress them all the way, there is a "click" at the bottom of their travel to engage turbo (or whatever other feature you want to throw in there).

Contrast this with the PS2 controller. The four main buttons are exactly the same size, shape, and color, and they're labeled with simialr geometric shapes. You can never tell which one you want to press in the heat of the moment. Then its two joysticks are exactly the same size and shape, and there's that analog/digital button which you always accidentally press at the wrong time and don't understand why the joystick is not working all of a sudden. Then it's got four separate finger triggers, you never know whether you should be pressing the upper or the lower finger trigger.
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Tony Fabris

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#72789 - 18/02/2002 01:43 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: tfabris]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3824
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
I've got all 3... well, okay, the xbox isn't really "mine"... it's at work... but the gamecube's controllers are by FAR the best things i've ever held. My only complaint about them is the "z" button, which you have to contort a tad to reach. The XBox's are attrocious. Slick, tiny, rounded buttons that are horribly placed, and the size is well... you've all heard plenty about that. I just had this discussion about what box to buy last month with one of my good friends, and i told him the same thing most of you guys are saying... go for the games. He got a PS2 and is lovin' it. If you're buying it for a kid, i'd say get a gamecube, and if you're a hardware/ooohhahhh person, go for xbox. But if you wanna have more fun and more games to choose from, go PS2. They are going to be releasing the ethernet adaptor and hard drive soon, so you won't be missing much for long. Games aren't about the best graphics/flash after all, they're about GOOD GAMES. The graphics difference at this point is fairly negligable anyhow. Can you still rent consoles at Blockbuster's and such? If so, i'd say give them both a try that way. blah blah yacket schmackety. My two dollerydoos.
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|| loren ||

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#72790 - 18/02/2002 01:44 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: grgcombs]
Bryce
stranger

Registered: 31/01/2002
Posts: 33
Loc: Sunny Isles Beach, FL
As my kid brother succinctly puts it, "X-Box is f***ing up the game for everyone." I had a PS2 when I lived in Germany, and I have an X-Box now (and I got my brother a GC for Christmas). IMO, the X-Box launch titles blow away the PS2 and GC launch titles.

But it's all about the games that you want. If having GT3 or a very similar game is important, the PS2 is where it's at. Project Gotham Racing is slick visually, but the game itself is dull (multi-player is nice). Wreckless is less stunning but quite fun and challenging. Neither is really comparable to GT3, and there is nothing on the horizon.

I'm not much of an FPS person, but I thought Halo was great and that the dual-stick controls worked really well. Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee is awesome. Amped has me addicted. Batman Vengeance is extremely slick. All told, my buddy and I have racked up 11 games and PGR was the only disappointment. Crash Bandicoot will probably be my next purchase...

I think that network gaming is going to be the "killer app" for the X-Box. And the 5.1 surround socks...

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#72791 - 18/02/2002 01:49 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: loren]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31159
Loc: Seattle, WA
My only complaint about them is the "z" button, which you have to contort a tad to reach.

Ah, but there should be at least one or two buttons which fit that description on the controller. You need to have buttons that are hard to press accidentally, but which you still don't have a lot of trouble remembering how to reach them. In the game, those buttons are coded for the least-used special features. The slight contortion to reach the rarely-used button is actually a feature, you see.
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Tony Fabris

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#72792 - 18/02/2002 02:06 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: tfabris]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3824
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Yeah... well, it pissed me off good when playing Rogue. =P My finger cramped up quick like.
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|| loren ||

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#72793 - 18/02/2002 06:29 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: grgcombs]
justinlarsen
old hand

Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 1109
Loc: Petaluma, CA
hardware is juack without the games to support it bottom line..
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---- Justin Larsen

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#72794 - 18/02/2002 10:22 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: loren]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31159
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yeah... well, it pissed me off good when playing Rogue. =P My finger cramped up quick like.

Which button was giving you the trouble? I never got cramps playing Rogue, perhaps you were just using the "rare" feature more often than the game designers intended.
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Tony Fabris

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#72795 - 18/02/2002 11:08 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: tfabris]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3824
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
The targeting computer, which you have to use quite frequently because you can't see the enemies half the time, especially in the space battles.
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|| loren ||

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#72796 - 18/02/2002 11:08 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: tfabris]
KungFuCow
enthusiast

Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 234
I have all 3. It's a tough call and probably hard to go wrong in whatever you chose. If I had to buy just one though, I'd probably buy a PS2 just to play Grand Theft Auto 3. That game alone makes the PS2 a must-have.

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#72797 - 18/02/2002 11:19 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: loren]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31159
Loc: Seattle, WA
That's what I figured. I hardly ever used the targeting computer. The only places it got used were occasionally on the battle over Endor, and on the last part of Bespin where you had to find the 3 power generators.
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Tony Fabris

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#72798 - 18/02/2002 12:17 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: KungFuCow]
Roger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5572
Loc: London, UK
If I hadn't already bought my PS2 to replace my DVD player (got burgled -- scum), I'd have bought it just to play GTA3 anyway. It rocks.
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-- roger

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#72799 - 18/02/2002 12:28 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: tfabris]
rockstar
enthusiast

Registered: 24/11/2000
Posts: 316
did you really expect the majority of people here to even consider the xbox? There is so much MS hatred on this board there is no way.

Personally, in my house we have.

3 ps2, 1 gamecube, 2 xbox, 4 dreamcast.. and at least one of every other system ever made (3 male rommates and one of them is a collector)

Now a few thoughts:

#1 i didn't like GT3, i love racing games and i didn't like GT3. People talk about how realsitic it is, all that is crap. No way no how does any driving game come even close to real racing, ever. That said Project gotham racing on the xbox looks fantastic and is really fun. FUN.

GtA3 is going to be out on everything but the cube come march, so don't base your opinion on that.

Someone was talking about the xbox hardware being obsolete already.. whatever.. and the gamecube/ps2 aren't? you must be high if you believe that.

There really aren't any games right now on teh ps2 that won't be on the xbox in a month that i want. NONE.. and furthermore, there is a fantastic rally game coming out for the xbox.

Addressing the controller.

#1 if you are pver 12 yrs old, or over 5'3" you will probably not have any real problems with the xbox controller. Yes it is bigger, however it is also more comfortable. The ps2 controller is crap..that said, if you get used to it, it will feel alkward to switch to anything.

Gamecube: Looks alright, but talka bout recycled. Their game release cycle is horrid right now.. and the games that are out either a) get old fast b) are made for little kids.

DOA3 absolutely spanks super smash brothers too, IMHO. Remember i play all 3 of these systems regularly. So i am not just defending a purchase.

Back to the comment about the xbox hardware being obsolete. President of sony has announced that they have to release the ps3 2 years early due to the xbox.. so hmm, what does that say about capabilities>?

Also, if you don't have a DVD player, don't even think of using the sony. It is horrid. At least the xbox can play dvd's well as well.. if that is a feature you want.

If you do end up with a PS2, i HIGHLY suggest you get an extended warranty (i would with the xbox too , just to be safe). The failure rates for sony's dvd drives are ASTRONOMICAL. I personally know someone who is on his 3rd ps2, and my room mate has 2 that died, he repaired one.

think i am makign it up, check this out

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=%2B"playstation+2"+%2B"read+error"

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=%2B"playstation+2"+%2B"broken"

To me sony is "the corporation"

I owned a ps2 for a week after its' release, and i tried to return it due to freezing and so forth. Sony told retailers that if there was a problem they were not to take back the units.. if they did they wouldn't be reimbursed for them. As such i was instructed to call sony for a refund, only when i tried they denied a refund and told me to send it in for repair. My experience with sony has been so horrid in teh last 5 years, let me tell you, i won't be buying again any time soon. The only product still working is a high end digital camera.

All that aside, you should play the units at a store, try to get a good sampling, see what you like. I only posted all this to combat the anti xbox sentiment. I own one and i am very happy with it.. it runs circles around the ps2 in pretty muchevery category. People want to flame off about game choise.. well think back to what games were out 3 months after the ps2 release.. they were almost all crap.

Get what you like, but asking for advce on it online is opening a bag.. research yourself, it will make things better.
you can start by reading this as well

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1561&p=1
(anandtech.com search for xbox last 4 pages are a hardware comparo to ps2)

and try this

http://www.xboxusersgroup.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-Everything_there_is_to_know&file=index

you can goto xbox.ign.com or ps2.ign.com or videogames.com to see released games and reviews.

and finally to address the guy who said the xbox hardware was obsolete...

comparison
==========

Main Processor Speed:
X-Box: 733 MHz
PS2: 295 MHz
GC: 405 MHz

Memory:
X-Box: 64 MB Unified
PS2: 40 MB Partitioned
GC: 43 MB Partitioned

Polygon Performance:
X-Box: 116.5 Million/sec
PS2: 66 Million/sec
GC: 12 Million/sec

Storage:
X-Box: 8 GB Built In; 8 MB Memory Card
PS2: Optional HD; 8 MB Memory Card
GC: No HD; 4 MB Digicard; 64 MB SD Card

Memory Bandwidth:
X-Box: 6.4 GB/sec
PS2: 3.2 GB/sec
GC: 2.6 GB/sec

Networking:
X-Box: 4 Controller Ports; Broadband Built In
PS2: 2 Controller Ports; Broadband Additional
GC: 4 Controller Ports; Broadband Additional

Sound:
X-Box: 256 Audio Channels (6.1 Dolby Surround)
PS2: 48 Audio Channels
GC: 64 Audio Channels

Max Resolution:
X-Box: 1920x1080 (Widescreen)
PS2: 1280x1024
GC: 1050x600

DVD Player:
X-Box: Additional Add On
PS2: Built In
GC: None

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#72800 - 18/02/2002 12:34 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: rockstar]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31159
Loc: Seattle, WA
I agree with your statement that all of the GameCube games are kiddie games. I got the Gamecube as a gift for my daughter, and she loves it. I also knew I would get to play through Rogue when she wasn't using it, so it worked out OK.

Didn't count on getting hooked on MonkeyBall, though.
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Tony Fabris

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#72801 - 18/02/2002 12:58 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: tfabris]
rockstar
enthusiast

Registered: 24/11/2000
Posts: 316
mokeyball = the best gc game out talk about your drunken party games.. sheesh

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#72802 - 18/02/2002 13:08 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: rockstar]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31159
Loc: Seattle, WA
I've gotten really good at Monkey Target. Totally hooked.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#72803 - 18/02/2002 13:33 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: tfabris]
Happy Birthday Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12030
Loc: Sterling, VA
Hey, I ain't smoking anything. All I said is that I liked SOME things on the N64 controller.

Think about it this way. I like the old school SF2 on SNES. I liked the arcade layout that some of the SNES controllers had. Very simple with the same number of buttons.

All I said was that it would be nice if the A and B buttons were the same size. I can see the advantage it would have otherwise on some games, but I still don't think you would have trouble finding one of TWO buttons.

Ah, but there should be at least one or two buttons which fit that description on the controller. You need to have buttons that are hard to press accidentally, but which you still don't have a lot of trouble remembering how to reach them.

Now that's smokin' something You say that some buttons SHOULD be hard to press? That's pretty dumb if you ask me, especially if he finds the Z button hard to press. That's an important button! I'm sure you must be talking about only about buttons like the digital/analog button on the PS controllers (which I totally agree with).

I think what it comes down to is that people have different shaped hands. Maybe loren's hands are shaped differently and finds the Z button hard to press. My hands fit the N64 controller pretty well. Many people complained about its ergonomics, but the real problem it had was that the left side of it never got used.

Don't get me wrong, I AGREE with you that the cube's controller is great! I just said ONE thing about it was a little off for me. geez
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Matt

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#72804 - 18/02/2002 15:39 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: Dignan]
KungFuCow
enthusiast

Registered: 18/01/2002
Posts: 234
One a side note, the Xbox retailing is handled the same way as the PS2 incident described above. You take it home and open it, you own it. No refunds if you decide you don't like it. You take it home and open it and play it and it's A) Bad out of the box or B) Breaks shortly thereafter, going back to the retailer is a waste of time. They can't help you. You have to call MS and get the "MS feeling of love."

Speaking of which, I had to reinstall WIndows XP last night and my copy wouldn't reactivate and I had to call in. The guy I talked to at MS made me feel like a criminal for having to reactivate. Question after question before he was finally satisfied enough to reactivate me then he wanted my name and email address when it was all said and done. So much for it being the painless process they claim it to be.


Edited by KungFuCow (18/02/2002 15:41)

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#72805 - 18/02/2002 16:25 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: tfabris]
msaeger
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/09/2000
Posts: 3608
Loc: Minnetonka, MN
why are all non-obscene games kiddie games
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Matt

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#72806 - 18/02/2002 16:52 Re: Save me, I'm going nuts ... X-Box or PS2 [Re: msaeger]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31159
Loc: Seattle, WA
why are all non-obscene games kiddie games

That's not what I meant, and that's not true. There are plenty of non-obscene games that my daughter would not like. Example: Rouge Leader. A completely non-obscene space game (unless you consider fantasy dogfighting obscene), which my daughter has absolutely no interest in playing.

I was at the E3 expo last year, before the GameCube was released, and I got a good sampling of the titles coming out for all of the new platforms. Based on what I saw, I deliberately chose the GameCube because its titles were primarily designed for and marketed towards the preteen and early teen audiences, and I wanted to get a console for my daughter. The amount of sex and violence in a video game does not determine its target market, the design of the gameplay does. And games like Luigi's Mansion are made for kids like my daughter. Monkey Ball is interesting because, although it is primarily made for kids, it can hook adults, too. Those games are rare and wonderful.
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Tony Fabris

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