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#87809 - 20/05/2002 10:20 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: thinfourth2]
andy
carpal tunnel

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 5746
Loc: Wivenhoe, Essex, UK
Did he forget to mention that the new tuner module design was jet powered ?

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Remind me to change my signature to something more interesting someday

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#87810 - 20/05/2002 13:20 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: lopan]
Alexander
member

Registered: 02/05/2000
Posts: 108
Loc: SF Bay Area
>because it's not going to happen at all..

Well, never say never. Someone might do a little run with Patrick's design, or some crazy millionaire could do a run of 1,000 for his 1,000 vehicles.

So the likelihood may be infinitesimal, but I wouldn't say it's zero just yet.

Alex

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#87811 - 21/05/2002 16:29 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: Alexander]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5316
Loc: Cambridge UK
It seems quite likely that someone will come to an agreement with Patrick to sell fully assembled versions of his kit. I believe he has already been approached by a few people interested in doing this.

Rob

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#87812 - 21/05/2002 20:31 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: Alexander]
lopan
old hand

Registered: 28/01/2002
Posts: 970
Loc: Manassas VA
In reply to:

So the likelihood may be infinitesimal, but I wouldn't say it's zero just yet.




Sorry... I sometimes tend to be too negative... if I ever win the Lotto and become a crazy millionaire... we'll all have tuners!
_________________________
Brett 60Gb MK2a with Led's

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#87813 - 22/05/2002 05:23 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: rob]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3452
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
ISTR the kit aspect was to get around needing all the various regulatory approvals. If Patrick sells pre-assembled ones, then in theory he'd need to get them CE/FCC approved.

Hugo

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#87814 - 27/05/2002 05:54 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: pca]
Guschti
stranger

Registered: 08/05/2002
Posts: 35
Loc: Zurich, Switzerland
Patrick,
I sent you a mail a couple weeks ago - I got no answer so far... Seems you are quite busy. I was only asking if it could be possible for you to publish the schema of the tuner on a website. If not - I'll have to wait for the kit then... hope it wont take that long from now on ;-)

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#87815 - 27/05/2002 08:09 Re: Tuners, empeg, for the use of [Re: Guschti]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
I don't think the schematic would be that useful. The actual tuner module is hard enough to get as it is and you need to recreate the PIC firmware for it to work anyway.

You got some neat idea for it?

- Trevor

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#87816 - 30/05/2002 19:16 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: pca]
pca
old hand

Registered: 20/07/1999
Posts: 1090
Loc: UK
Hi again.

I'm finally back, having found and killed the problem that stopped me posting for the last few weeks. It was indeed a cache bug, due to Telewest having nearly as much ability in setting up their 'transparent' web proxy as a blind 15th century norwegian peasant with no hands, one eye, and a wooden appendix.

Anyway.

I have spent a couple of days doing the PCB for the tuner module, after a long and bloody struggle to decide on a suitable enclosure for the thing. I finally decided on this one, which is almost exactly the same width and length as the current tuner module, but about 60% deeper. The one pictured isn't the one I'll use, as it's a more expensive one made of polycarbonate. Since there is not likely to be a requirement to have a bulletproof tuner, I'll use an ABS one, which is about half the price.

This is a screen grab from the pcb package printer dialogue of the silkscreen and pads of the board set, which gives some idea of the complexity. As can be seen, it's quite simple, although due to the component size versus the board area the packing density is a little high. If you're interested, this is a screen grab from the artwork editor, showing the board layout in glorious technicolour.

There are two boards, which connect together in a vertical stack about 3/4 of an inch apart. The bottom board has the tuner itself on, with support circuitry, while the top board is the processor one, which contains everything else. Each board is about 2.25 x 2.8 inches in size, although the bottom board bulges a little to accomodate the tuner module.

It shouldn't take a competent solderist more than about 20-30 minutes to build the boards, assuming all the component leads are bent correctly beforehand. The bottom board is fixed into the box by four 20mm M3 mounting pillars screwed through the cornet holed, then the top board plugs in and is secured by 4 M3 screws into the tops of the pillars.

To save cost, the boxes won't be punched like the original ones, with neat cutouts for the connectors and so on. The antenna input and empeg lead will exit through grommets, which makes the drilling easier, and gives a free extension cable at the same time.

I have just sent the job files off the the PCB manufacturer, to have five boards made on a one-week turnaround. If all goes well, and I haven't flamingoed up, I should have a build and possibly even working unit in time to take to Holland next month. This depends, of course, on actually getting the sample tuner module, which is still apparently a week away, as it has been for a month.

Now, for some news that might interest various people: I have added value to the tuner!

There were some IO lines left on the PIC, and I hate wasting things... So the tuner can have (possibly optionally, have to think about it), a pair of 1.5A 12V mosfet-driven outputs and 4 12v compatible inputs. Also, it is possible to stack another board on top of the existing set, which can have another PIC on along with various I/O facilities. There is just room in the box, as far as I can work out, to allow the top board, which I haven't designed yet. Future project.

Now. On to another matter. Why the FECK do banks insist on using crap security websites that only work with either IE (the most insecure web browser in existence, a pox be upon all who wrote it), or old versions of Netscape, which are just unreliable in the extreme. Trying to manage my bank accounts with a browser that, when it crashes, screws the current session so thoroughly that the web server then locks my account so I have to phone the bank helpline (HA!) and have them unlock it is just a pain.

Oh well. Life's like that, then you wake up one morning dead. Bummer.

pca



Edited by pca (30/05/2002 19:17)
_________________________
Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...

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#87817 - 30/05/2002 19:33 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: pca]
ninti
old hand

Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 868
Loc: Los Angeles
> a blind 15th century norwegian peasant with no hands, one eye, and a wooden appendix.

If he's blind, does it really matter that much how many eyes he has?
_________________________
Ninti - MK IIa 60GB Smoke, 30GB, 10GB

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#87818 - 30/05/2002 19:36 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: pca]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31150
Loc: Seattle, WA
nearly as much ability in setting up their 'transparent' web proxy as a blind 15th century norwegian peasant with no hands, one eye, and a wooden appendix.

Ah, Patrick, never failing to give us a really good quote.

You sir, are THE MAN. This is all great news.

this is a screen grab from the artwork editor, showing the board layout in glorious technicolour.

What, no secret messages sandwiched between the layers?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#87819 - 30/05/2002 20:00 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: tfabris]
canuckInOR
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/02/2002
Posts: 3153
Loc: Portland, OR
What, no secret messages sandwiched between the layers?

You were expecting maybe "!seineew era sreenigne esioNtahP"?



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#87820 - 31/05/2002 00:26 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: pca]
Shonky
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/01/2002
Posts: 1951
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
That's great news to hear Patrick. I think some were thinking you'd disappeared. Hope the tuner module sample comes through - did you decide on the full option one?

BTW: You had better have some place safe to hide once you release this design. The onslaught of people wanting tuners is going to be huge.... (I'm thinking an old castle with a drawbridge and moat )

Keep up the good work.
_________________________
Christian
#40104192 120Gb (no longer in my E36 M3, won't fit the E46 M3)

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#87821 - 31/05/2002 01:38 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: pca]
tms13
old hand

Registered: 30/07/2001
Posts: 1115
Loc: Lochcarron and Edinburgh
In reply to:

... a suitable enclosure for the thing. I finally decided on this one...


Do you have dimensions for the box? I'm cramped for space inside my home enclosure, but there's a space of about 8x6x8cm if I can move leads out of the way. Otherwise I'll have to mount it externally or swap with the one in the car.

In reply to:

There are two boards, which connect together in a vertical stack about 3/4 of an inch apart.


If space is an issue, can they be mounted side-by-side (in a different enclosure, obviously)? Or are there connectors which depend on the alignment?

In reply to:

I have added value to the tuner!


Is it possible to distinguish the new tuners from the original, in software? I'd like to be sure that any software that uses your new features won't break a standard tuner (and vice-versa). You said earlier that you were reducing the tuner ID to two bits; does this mean that the other two bits on a standard tuner will appear as inputs?

In reply to:

... as much ability ... as a blind 15th century norwegian peasant with no hands, one eye, and a wooden appendix.


A gem!

Again, thanks for making the effort. I'll be getting one, even if it does mean having to invest in a sensible (small) soldering iron.
_________________________
Toby Speight
030103016 (80GB Mk2a, blue)
030102806 (0GB Mk2a, blue)

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#87822 - 31/05/2002 02:37 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: pca]
Anonymous
Unregistered


2 questions:

1) If you're dead, how can you wake up?

2) Is this thing going to be hard to assemble? Do we have to soder all of those little bitty components?

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#87823 - 31/05/2002 02:39 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: ]
BartDG
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/05/2001
Posts: 2560
Loc: Bruges, Belgium
1) If you're dead, how can you wake up?

*sigh*

2) Is this thing going to be hard to assemble?

Dependes if you have any soldering expertise or not. If you're capable of doing the button hack yourself, then I don't think this will be a problem for you.

But I won't get my fingers burned on this one : I'll just ask a mate of whick I'm sure he's capable to do it right.
_________________________
Riocar 80gig S/N : 010101580 red
Riocar 80gig (010102106) - backup

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#87824 - 31/05/2002 02:45 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: BartDG]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yeah, I don't have any soldering talent whatsoever. Maybe someone on here will be assembling them for people for a fee.

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#87825 - 31/05/2002 04:16 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: pca]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

As always, WOW! Thanks!!! A nice piece of work!

Every time I open an empeg up to mess with the hard drives or something, I just have to stop for a moment and just stare at the main board! Art!!!
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#87826 - 31/05/2002 05:30 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: BartDG]
Phoenix42
veteran

Registered: 21/03/2002
Posts: 1376
Loc: MA but Irish born
If you're capable of doing the button hack yourself, then I don't think this will be a problem for you.

Having seen the resistor pack used in the button hack at the recent Boston Meet I don't think I'll be doing any soldering.
Is there any one in the Boston area, or US for that matter, who might assemble them for Dougals like myself?

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#87827 - 31/05/2002 08:03 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: Phoenix42]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
Err, AFAIK, Patrick has come up with a through-hole design to make the soldering easier - none of that impossible to see surface-mount stuff, so it *should* be vastly easier for anyone with basic soldering competancy to handle. That being said, I (like everyone else here besides Patrick) haven't seen a kit yet, so it's not for me to give a definate answer. But I wouldn't expect to see any of those resistor packs! It's probably not a good idea to compare the button hack soldering to this kit - except to say that anyone capable of the button hack should be vastly overqualifed to assemble this kit.

I would say that this kit is probably not for those who have never picked up a soldering iron before - Patrick has hinted at the component density and the component count, and that combined with the costs of buying suitable tools and the effort needed to practice soldering skills might make it undesirable, but certainly not impossible.

Anyway, I'm in Boston, and time permitting will be able to help out those who need it.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#87828 - 31/05/2002 09:48 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: pca]
pdw
stranger

Registered: 11/02/2002
Posts: 36
Looking good.

The one thing that concerns me is how I'm going to get one of those behind my dash. Getting the Empeg in in the first place called for the gentle application of brute force over ignorance when it came to making space for all the connectors on the back. Is it possible to extend the connector on the tuner so that I can mount it elsewhere?

Paul

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#87829 - 31/05/2002 09:50 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: pdw]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1995
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
As it were, the original tuners came with a extension cable about a foot long.

/Michael
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/Michael

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#87830 - 31/05/2002 10:04 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: mtempsch]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Ooh! Grammar nazi time!
    As it were, the original tuners came ...
Improper use of the subjunctive case. (Or, possibly just incorrect number, but getting to talk about subjunctives is so much more fun.)
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#87831 - 31/05/2002 11:40 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: pca]
AlB
member

Registered: 06/02/2002
Posts: 149
Loc: SF
Happy Happy day, happy day, happy day......
Looks awsome! Thanks you for time and effort well spent! Optional Longish leads for all connections would be greatly appreciated by those of us cursed with Single DIN very cramped german cars (no names just intitials, B..M..W)

Strong work!!!

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#87832 - 31/05/2002 14:25 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: AlB]
Satan_X
enthusiast

Registered: 22/03/2002
Posts: 251
Loc: Ramsey, NJ
Tuners.....close......getting.....excited.....must......find.......person.....with......soldering.......skills........
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VW R32 Empeg 50gig 'Stormy 3 has snuck in a dodgeball' - Stormy 1

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#87833 - 31/05/2002 15:20 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: AlB]
MisterBeefhead
member

Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 161
Loc: Crete, Il USA
In reply to:

those of us cursed with Single DIN very cramped german cars




Sheeiiit...I wish I was "cursed" with a BMW...
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_____________________________ It's getting to be ri-god-damn-diculous.

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#87834 - 31/05/2002 15:38 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: AlB]
johnmcd3
enthusiast

Registered: 19/04/2001
Posts: 369
Loc: Seattle, WA (formerly Houston,...
You be suprrised what can fit back there on the E36 models. I got the tuner in without much fuss, but with the extra height you might have to go behind the glove box (plenty of room back there).

John
_________________________
1998 BMW ///M3 30 GB Mk2a, Tuner, and 10 GB backup

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#87835 - 31/05/2002 20:01 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: wfaulk]
mtempsch
pooh-bah

Registered: 02/06/2000
Posts: 1995
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Ooh! Grammar nazi time!

Oh pooh... In my defense I'll claim that I was dog tired at the time and that english isn't my first language... Now, I'm still dog tired and up at 5 am...

/Michael
_________________________
/Michael

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#87836 - 31/05/2002 20:44 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: mtempsch]
aikidoka
new poster

Registered: 01/09/1999
Posts: 12
Loc: Indiana
This is great - Im looking forward to the kit. I just have to work on those soldering skills. I havent done that since I was kid.

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#87837 - 01/06/2002 02:10 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: AlB]
thinfourth2
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 13/04/2001
Posts: 1742
Loc: The land of the pale blue peop...
I have a e36 3 series and it has loads of room just drop out your glovebox and nice easy access and i might be possible to mount another din slot in below the clock/trip computer thingy.
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P.Allison fixer of big engines Mk2+Mk2a signed by God / Hacked by the Lord Aberdeen Scotland

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#87838 - 01/06/2002 03:32 Re:Tuners, empeg, for the use of (update the next) [Re: Satan_X]
muzza
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 21/07/1999
Posts: 1765
Loc: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
I'd be keen to solder kits for people. Except I'm in Australia and buyers will have to pay a little more for shipping and wait a tad longer.
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-- Murray I What part of 'no' don't you understand? Is it the 'N', or the 'Zero'?

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