Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone?
Posted by: mlord
Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 13:42
Well, now that my docks are shipping, and the backlit button kits don't seem to be, I'd like to gauge interest in doing backlit buttons via the "pinhole" method described elsewhere on this BBS.
Basically, this would involve me supplying and installing the 4-gang resistor pack and four button LEDs, and drilling small holes through the tips of the existing grey player buttons to let the light through. These small pinholes would then be patched smooth and flush with dabs of clear epoxy, which would still let some light through.
It may even be possible to have a single LED placed under the knob too, with a few pinholes there as well.
The fee for this service would likely be around US$60-75 or so, parts and labour included, return shipping not included (those LEDs are very pricey, wow!). As with the button kit installs, you would remove the display board from your unit, send it to me, and I would do the installation and return it via shipping method of your choice.
Nothing definite yet, just checking the level of interest. I will be doing this to one of my own players for sure. And there's nothing about this that would prevent later retrofit of Brian's translucent button caps or full knob kits.
??
Posted by: phi144
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 13:57
I would be interested in this. When you are done with yours could we see some pics?
Thanks!
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 14:37
Yeah, after I solder my own together, I'll post pics. Another week or two from now, maybe. Meanwhile.. You've Got Mail!
-ml
Posted by: phi144
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 14:39
You've Got Mail!
Back at ya!
Posted by: Tim
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 14:59
That sounds great. I would be interested in a couple of sets.
Posted by: mdavey
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 15:35
My local model shop sells fluorescent, coloured and clear perspex rod in diameters from 1mm to 5mm in 0.5mm steps. It might be a good alternative to filling the drilled hole with epoxy (you'll probably still need epoxy to keep it in place).
Once cut to length, simply polish with ever finer grades of sandpaper or wet-n-dry emery paper before fixing in place.
Posted by: SE_Sport_Driver
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 16:08
Mark, you should toss together one site that has links to all the services you offer. Even it they are just links to BBS threads so you don't have to update the site a lot. You do button kit installs, docking stations and maybe tuner assembly?
Posted by: genixia
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 16:12
I'm still hunting through the linux kernel for the 'time machine' code that must be there.
Posted by: thrasher
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 16:14
that would be nice to have.when ever your ready,you can do both of mine.
Posted by: justinlarsen
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 16:46
count me in, i like this method better.
Posted by: Caps
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 17:28
I was thinking about doing something like this to match my other car buttons. My buttons are black with small white triangles. But they turn red at night.
Will these LED lights only turn on when the headlights are on?
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 17:32
No, they're either always on, or always off, brightness is tunable via Hijack.
But they do "dim" when the headlights are on.
Cheers
Posted by: fusto
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 18:10
I've been waiting about a year plus for my led kit to arrive from Brian, so count me in for at least one.
Posted by: Shonky
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 20:10
I've been on Brian's list for about a year now, so I've kinda given up hope. I understand the delays he is having - there's always something else to get done.
I will at least be interested to see how you do this Mark. Hugo's in Australia right now and has brought over some buttons for me to try this exact mod.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 20:29
Yeah, I think this method is a good basic way to be able to operate the player while driving at night. Maybe I'll see you in Oz later in the year..
Cheers
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 20:33
These small pinholes would then be patched smooth and flush with dabs of clear epoxy, which would still let some light through.
Somewhere in this forum is a thread where I posted an "artist's conception" of a more advanced version of this. The idea was to make larger holes and fill them with translucent epoxy, not just pinholes. I don't think anyone ever tried it.
Unfortunately, I can't seem to locate the thread where I posted that picture. Anyone else got a link?
Posted by: fusto
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 22:02
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 22:07
Thanks! Guess my search-fu wasn't very good tonight.
Posted by: Waterman981
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 15/03/2003 23:29
So I just decided to bust out the dremel and go to town. Here's what I have so far.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 00:32
KEWL. Now to find the proper epoxy (or perhaps proper pigment to mix into clear epoxy) to make it complete...
Posted by: jane
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 01:57
I would be interrested in just buying the kit.
Marius (Escort Cab + Mark II; 2CV + Mark 2a)
Posted by: StigOE
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 03:40
Why use only one LED under the knob? People were complaining when there were three LEDs on Brian's kit because the light wasn't even enough.... Why not make up boards similar to Brian's new board, unless he has copyrights and won't let you use his design....?
Stig
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 07:46
If you want "just the kit", then order the resistor pack and LEDs yourself, directly from Digikey. The parts numbers have been posted on this BBS and (I think) on RioCar.Org recently. I believe minimum quantity is 10 on the resistor packs, and the LEDs are around $3-$5 each in singles.
Cheers
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 07:50
Why use only one LED under the knob? People were complaining when there were three LEDs on Brian's kit because the light wasn't even enough.... Why not make up boards similar to Brian's new board, unless he has copyrights and won't let you use his design....?
Well, the answer to your first question, why one LED, is that there appear to be leftover traces and mounting pads on the displayboard for one LED near the knob. I am hoping to use that for simple installation.
The answers to your second question are varied, but basically boil down to: (1) not interested, (2) not nice (I *am* Canadian, eh), (3) tfabris has a better knob solution anyway, that could be assembled and sold as an install-yourself kit, and (4) I'm trying to keep this simple enough that I don't lose too much money on it (when I'm soldering or gluing docks, I'm not hacking Linux for a living.. guess which pays better?)
Cheers
Posted by: mrfixit
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 10:05
Does anyone know if they have any "spare" buttons left over? I have been thinking of doing this same thing with the buttons, but I don't want to use my original ones.
Posted by: andy
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 10:28
I think Rob said they had thousands of spare buttons, but he might have been exagerating.
Posted by: fusto
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 10:46
Just a thought but maybe Mark could get a bulk load of buttons from the empeg guys, and roll the cost into the kit install. Cant imagine it would cost that much.
And that way those who wanted to keep their stock buttons intact could.
That is, if Mark wanted to go along with it and the empeg guys would be willing to send out some.
Posted by: phi144
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 10:50
Great idea, if all are willing.
Posted by: mrfixit
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 12:15
Should I email Rob directly? I would like to get a couple sets of buttons/knobs.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 12:55
there appear to be leftover traces and mounting pads on the displayboard for one LED near the knob. I am hoping to use that for simple installation.
Today I disassembled one of my players, and desoldered the IR daughterboard as well (the little PCB above the knob that holds the LED and two IR modules).
The traces on the main board that appeared to be for a resistor and LED are, in fact, for a resistor and LED. It appears that the original layout was to have the IR module on the main board (there are unused pads for it there), and the throbbling LED down below the knob, again on the main board. At some point, the design changed, and they added the tiny daughterboard to hold the LED in a new position, along with the IR receiver, and the new IRDA transceiver.
EDIT: Actually, there are also pads for the IRDA on the main display board as well.. so I wonder if the whole point of the daughterboard was just to move the throbbing LED to the top? Mmm.. no wonder this thing was expensive to build!
So, I soldered in a resistor (1K) and LED, and turned it on. Sure enough, it simply behaved identically to the regular throbbing LED. Then I cut the top trace from the new LED, and connected to the button illumination control signal, and.. it works just fine as such. Pics to follow.
Here's a photo of the main display board, with the IR daughterboard removed:
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 12:59
And here is the knob LED soldered into position, and the daughterboard back in place:
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 13:01
This is what it all looks like with Brians translucent button caps on top:
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 13:03
And, finally, for the record, here is the underside of the IR daughterboard, before I soldered it back into position. This might be useful to somebody someday..
Posted by: ricin
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 14:29
KEWL.
So I'm not the only one that uses that. Kewl.
Edit:
Hmm... The [image] ([img]) tag is actually checked for a valid image extension in the URL.
Test:
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 14:44
So I'm not the only one that uses that. Kewl.
I have a friend who actually deliberately pronouces it differently than "cool".
Posted by: ricin
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 14:50
Ok, I don't pronounce it differently, but I've been spelling it that way since my Local BBS days. I do have another friend that uses it and pronounces it "KOO-el," though.
Posted by: phi144
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 15:01
Shutter...
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 16:04
Nice dremel job! Those are going to look very nice when filled in and lit up!
Note the wonders of auto-exposure cameras.. Those are probably light grey buttons on a white piece of paper, but the camera has tried to average it all out to 18% grey, so the buttons ended up black and the paper ended up gray..
Posted by: Waterman981
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 16:35
Thanks! and yup about the picture... I think if I had the macro zoom attachment it would help, but still.... I was just trying to get them close up and in focus! I have been working on the sides more with my dremel, and it's getting better, but it does take time and patience. I really don't want to screw these up.
Posted by: foxtrot_xray
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 17:15
I'm still hunting through the linux kernel for the 'time machine' code that must be there.
You found it. You just don't know it yet.
Me.
Posted by: foxtrot_xray
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 16/03/2003 17:17
I jhate sounding like a broken record but..
I'm Game for it, of course! I think the pinhole lights would look good with the toggles in my Mini.
Me.
Posted by: LTJBukem
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 17/03/2003 04:11
I've kept holding out for some flourescent material buttons, as they could be self installed.
Did anyone ever cast any ?
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 17/03/2003 05:55
Mmm.. I just noticed on Brians Button Kit site that there is now a third version of his excellent Knob-LED board there. Maybe he's ramping up production again (?).
Cheers
Posted by: BartDG
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 17/03/2003 06:13
Gee, I hope so, I've been on the waiting list for more than a year now.
OTOH, where have you seen this? I've checked the site myself, and I did not find any information about this. It also states it hasn't been updated since may last year.
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 17/03/2003 06:31
The third knob board is a redesign of the original 4LED board. It has been around for a while - I remember seeing it months ago. In fact, at the time, I thought it was based on feedback from the installers (you included, Mark) that the original 4LED design was harder to work with, based on placement of the tracks.
I have not seen any changes on the site recently, or for the last few months for that matter. Has anyone heard from Brian recently?
Posted by: elvis
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 17/03/2003 11:22
Your sig...
You forgot WIND you need WIND!!!!!!
Posted by: frog51
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 18/03/2003 09:36
I guess it could be a tall motor driven ship
Posted by: fusto
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 18/03/2003 12:49
Bah... Wind is a pain in the arse. Dies right when you need it, and kicks up a fuss when youre totally un-prepared.
Stars are at least a fairly constant variable. Unless of course its foggy...
Heres a windy day crossing the pacific.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 18/03/2003 12:50
Dude, your ocean's tilted.
Posted by: elvis
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 18/03/2003 12:53
Aye cap'n. thas what it's all about!
Posted by: fusto
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 18/03/2003 14:52
Dude, your ocean's tilted.
Yeah...
And technically it should be tilting the other way!
We were dealing with some serious swells that day.
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 11:12
Don't lose hope just yet guys... In the final stages here... just trying to produce without the tiny bubbles...
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 11:14
Another...
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 14:05
just trying to produce without the tiny bubbles...
Great. Now I've got
Don Ho stuck in my head. Thanks.
(The mold looks great, glad to see someone else giving this a shot. I love Brian's work, but he's clearly backlogged and it'd be nice to see others producing, too.)
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 14:18
tiny bubbles...
Great. Now I've got Don Ho stuck in my head. Thanks.
I don't know if this will make it better or worse, but try thinking of the Willie Nelson version.
At least it wasn't Mele Kalikimaka.
Posted by: fusto
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 14:25
At least it wasn't Mele Kalikimaka.
dammit!!
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 16:42
Yeah I emailed Brian just to make sure he didn't mind, his response left me at the conclusion that he wasn't really going to be doing this any more... at least any time soon. So I got his blessing.
Things left to do: Get the bubbles out (at least not so noticeable) which I think I'm almost there and make a mold of the mold
outta plastic so I don't have to go casting buttons everytime I wear my mold out... that and if I start to fall behind I can always just whip out another mold quickly and double production.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 17:30
his response left me at the conclusion that he wasn't really going to be doing this any more... at least any time soon.
Sorry to hear that! But glad to know you're carrying on the tradition.
Things left to do: Get the bubbles out (at least not so noticeable) which I think I'm almost there
Did Brian give you any tips? His buttons (at least the ones I've seen) are bubble-free.
Do you have any ideas about what pigments to use for possibly doing translucent white or translucent gray buttons that diffuse the light more across their surface?
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 17:33
Dude!!! Sweet will you be making the full kit LED's, buttons, and stuff or just the buttons? Either way I'll buy a set when you're ready.
I'll take the blue ones...
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 17:35
Love the new avatar, JrFaust. I'm a bit concerned that the character is fondling his empeg in the nude, but... to each his own, I suppose.
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 17:43
LOL It would be better but thats all i could fit in the 65x75 area this is what I edited it from
http://www.frontiernet.net/~jrmichael/percious.bmp
Thanks I knew someone would say something
ok so i can't spell )
Posted by: BartDG
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 17:46
That link doesn't work. The word 'precious' is spelt wrong in it. (preciuos)
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 17:48
Even after correcting the spelling, it still didn't work.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 17:49
Ah, link works now. As typed originally.
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 17:50
Ok try it now... sorry
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 19/03/2003 21:27
Did Brian give you any tips? His buttons (at least the ones I've seen) are bubble-free.
we're both using the same materials, same plastic, everything, the only thing the tech from
www.smoothon.com could suggest was that there was more moisture in my area, which kinda sucks. Anyway I'm now working with the possiblity of possibly the amount I've been mixing (up until now I've been using very small amounst, but I have a gut feeling that maybe by using more and letting the materials set for a while before mixing perhaps I can cut down the amount of bubbles)
Smoothon has a lot of different colors for pigment, I know they have, red, blue, yellow, green... I'm checking right now if they have white or grey
Posted by: simspos
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 02:32
The only guaranteed way to avoid the bubbles is to "de-gas" your casting compound before you use it. We do this at work in a small vacuum chamber (essentially a thick goldfish bowl with a vacuum line attached) takes about 10 seconds and you'd be surprised how much gas comes out.
For home use you could get a hand operated vacuum pump from a school lab supplies company and simply connect it to a small vessel (like a champagne bottle that can stand a bit of pressure - you don't want to implode a glass container, it isn't nice). Put your mixture in the bottle leaving at least 80% air space (you can generate an awful lot of resinous froth and you don't want that in your vacuum pump) and evacuate it , then pour into your moulds and hey-presto, bubble free castings.
Cheers, Sim
Posted by: andy
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 05:14
Love the new avatar, JrFaust. I'm a bit concerned that the character is fondling his empeg in the nude, but... to each his own, I suppose
Ahhh, it's an empeg !
When I first saw the avatar I didn't realise it was an empeg, it looked like he was lifting his bed clothes with one hand, while the other had was out of shot. Now it makes more sense...
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 07:25
Well, just buttons.... but in
this post... You'll find all the part numbers you need.
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 07:28
Cool, I'm willing to try anything, any ideas where I can find a small inexpensive vacuum pump for this? Google searches are turning up only aquarium stuff and really expensive industrial vacuum pumps (maybe I just suck at google searches)
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 07:30
..and the knob board (the only non "off the shelf" part) isn't really needed. A simple alternative for a single knob LED is shown earlier in this thread. And tfabris has another multi-LED method that's a bit trickier but workable.
Cheers
Posted by: Chimaera
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 07:34
typing "hand operated vacuum pump" into google I got to
http://www.sciencekit.com/Products/Display.cfm?categoryid=303712, it was in the first ten results.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 07:34
I use a (heavy) vaccuum pump for veneering work in the shop, but lighter alternatives also exist. Here is a REALLY good product:
http://www.vacupress.com/products2.htm#compact100
Mind you, that's a whole veneering kit, but it's not too pricey. For your project, just make a thick plywood box to hold your gel container, put a lid on it, and put it inside the vaccuum bag. Pump it for a few seconds, then remove and pour.
Cheers
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 07:36
Wow.. okay, the hand pump wins. But some kind of airtight container is still needed. Plastic wrap (vapour barrier grade) is your Friend. That and duct tape.
Cheers
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 07:42
Oh yeah, the forces we're talking about here can really add up.. 14lbs/sq.inch or so. Not much on it's own, but square inches have a way of adding up!
So, whatever pump you get, the way to use it safely is probably to just make a small but sturdy plywood box to completely enclose your (open) jar of mixed up gel. A hole or two for airflow in the box is needed, then wrap the whole thing in plastic, duct tape it shut, with the pump hose passing through the plastic into the box at some location. pump.
Cheers
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 07:47
damn... I hate it when I get busted out for being lazy....
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 07:58
I also did my own LED board in
this thread, with pic... I built mine with some of that pre-fab circuit board from radio shack.
Posted by: Chimaera
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 08:04
Sorry, just trying to be helpful
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 08:15
You could also try one of those
Foodsaver dealies, and get multiple uses out of it. Despite their infomercial sales tactics, it seems to really be a quality product, and you can buy them at the WalMart, etc. Make sure you get one that has a hose attachment, though. All but the bottom of the line one do.
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 09:15
On a side note, when and if I get all the kinks worked out, I'll be providing both types of volume knob with my kit (provided your knob board will accomodate the depth of the mk1 volume knob).
Posted by: simspos
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 09:19
Yep, that vacuum pump was an excellent hit and far cheaper than anything I came up with.
I talked to our production engineer who recently did some vacuum de-gassing of silicon mould making rubber and he recommends going to a minimum of 20 and preferably 25 inches of mercury (which just happens to be the maximum vacuum that the linked pump draws - nice one!) and holding it there for about a minute
And again the warning... have at least 5 times the volume of air to liquid above the liquid you are evacuating - it will froth like shaken up lemonade / beer / whatever and you really don't want that in your newly purchased vacuum pump.
Oh, and Mark Lords point about enclosing the kit in case of disaster is well worth noting.
Cheers, Sim
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 10:04
They also have some vacuum plates and bell jars over at that science supply site:
Plate & Polycarbonate Jar
etc.
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 20/03/2003 20:32
Ok I just ordered all the LED's and resisters and stuff from Digikey so all I need are new buttons.
I used the part number MMBT3906DICT-ND for the transistor hope that’s an acceptable one to use.
Thanks for the link to the parts list, I couldn't find it under the FAQ but I think I used the wrong wording on the search
Posted by: simspos
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 21/03/2003 01:43
[homer] mmmh..... bell jars
Now we're getting seriously industrial,.... but if you are expecting to get a quality finish, you gotta invest in the right kit (and if you're thinking of selling buttons, the investment will soon pay).
Nothing more disappointing than spending a whole lotta time casting or moulding something only to find that poor surface finish ruins the job. I hate it when that happens.. grrrr.
Cast On, Sim
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 21/03/2003 06:58
A plywood box covered with plastic wrap and duct tape is much much cheaper than a bell jar.
Posted by: simspos
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 21/03/2003 07:17
This is very true and for most vacuum bag moulding, the commercial kit is pretty much the same (thicker plastic wrap & stickier tape) but more expensive - no big surprises there.
But a bell jar !!! - there is a thing of beauty
Posted by: JBjorgen
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 21/03/2003 07:38
Does anyone find anything remotely sexual about this picture of a
Bell Jar kit?
Posted by: tonyc
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 21/03/2003 07:48
LOL!!! That would be *perfect* for Maxim Magazine's "Found Porn" section.
Posted by: simspos
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 21/03/2003 07:55
Now that's just sick - who would do that to an innocent bell jar?
Posted by: jane
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 21/03/2003 11:35
Yes, know what you mean... I still remember one North Sea crossing, where all the forcasters were only sayning "breeze", but all of them were also predicting different wind directions. England, scotland, denmark, norway... all different directions..
We ended up with a hurricane and 9m high waves. It was rather exciting, especially since we were about to win the race over to scotland... but when our 37 foot yacht started to break up, we luckilly had a sensible captain who ordered turning arount to go with the wind back to norway.
as an afterthought, we discovered that we were winning by far, and if we had continued, we would either have sunk or won. two other boats similar to ours went down, but luckilly all the crew was saved by emergency personell from the oil rigs. We never regretted turning around.
It was tough when we were in the middle of it, and definitely an experience to value.
Marius (Escort Cab + 2CV)
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 24/03/2003 12:24
totally forgot to address your question about pigment. no milky white as far as I can see. I've tried mixing pigments to get different colors... that doesn't work so great.
Here is a list of tints available, it's the first thing on the page. I currently have Yellow, Blue and Red....
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 24/03/2003 17:30
Ok so I'm going to try my hand at making buttons for my self, but I'm not an "artist" so it might end up being a good laugh for me.
Posted by: Mach
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 24/03/2003 20:16
If you can find a custom jewelry shop that does lost wax casting, they should have an investment table like this
table which is very good for what you are trying to do.
If you're just looking for a pump,
link. It's not cheap but it works very well.
Also if you get a decent mold, I would be interested in couple sets of buttons cast in jeweler's wax. I can get them cast in metal from there.
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 24/03/2003 21:09
Ummm should the LED's be on at like the lowest level when the Empeg is in standby (note they are set to full when playing and are completely off if I set the level to off).
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 25/03/2003 03:48
Yes. You can change that behavior with a buttonled_off option in config.ini. See the
FAQ.
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 25/03/2003 17:10
Shazbot! busted for laziness too.
Sorry I should have looked.
Thanks though for the info.
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 25/03/2003 19:46
Well I have to say that even without buttons to go with my new lights it still looks sweet, and makes a sort-of cool blue ring around the knob.
Is the transistor number MMBT390DICT-ND (Digikey) been added to the parts list yet?
Posted by: FlibblE
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 26/03/2003 08:43
Got a picture? This sounds pretty cool without the translucent buttons!
Cheers
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 26/03/2003 11:17
Is the transistor number MMBT390DICT-ND (Digikey) been added to the parts list yet?
It is now
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 26/03/2003 17:11
Sorry no, I wish I had a digital camera to take some, else I have to wait and pay to get pictures developed.
Hopefully soon I'll buy a digital camera.
Posted by: fusto
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 15:05
So what do you think the ETA is going to be on these LED installs?
I'm ready now; chomping at the bit, as it were. As soon as you say go, I'm there.
Not trying to hurry you of course, I know youre busy with your fingers in many other pies.
I've already been waiting over a year for Brian's kit, so I can wait a bit longer.
I was just curious.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 15:11
Mmm.. Good question.
Now that at least one other BBS member is working on making the translucent buttons for us, I don't think I'll proceed with the pinhole version.
But I am still ready and willing to do the LED installs, including the SINGLE knob LED as shown in photographs elsewhere in this thread.
If anyone wants that done, the procedure is to remove the displayboard from your player, package it carefully, and send it to me. I'll get the parts, install/test them, and send it back to you via the shipping method of your choice.
For now, don't do anything, but I would like an idea as to how many others want me to do this for them. I'm in Canada, so shipping is either slow, or more expensive than you may be used to. But if you have more than one player, a week or two of down time isn't such a big deal. I can turn these around in a day or so from receipt.
And.. aw, shucks.. maybe I'll wander down to the shop and drill out some buttons, epoxy them again, and see how they look. Monday. I'm out of town this weekend.
Cheers
Posted by: phi144
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 15:18
What a guy!
Posted by: fusto
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 15:34
Actually, thats all I was looking for. I have the New Face with translucent buttons on order, so all I really need is the LED's soldered on.
Ready when you are!
Posted by: phi144
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 15:59
Can we get some pics of the new face? I always like to see them in their "natural" setting.
Posted by: fusto
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 16:00
Sure! As soon as its in my hot little hands, Ill break out the digital and post a few.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 16:48
>all I really need is the LED's soldered on.
Okay, email me then and we'll set it up. I have one set of LEDs on hand here for this -- they were destined for one of my own players, but that can wait -- the other two already have them.
Next time I reorder docking connectors, I'll also get some more LEDs. I have eight of the resistor packs and single resistors (for knob) on hand already.
Cheers
Posted by: StigOE
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 18:07
Can we get some pics of the new face? I always like to see them in their "natural" setting.
You have seen
this thread, haven't you??
Stig
Posted by: phi144
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 19:52
I have seen it. Thanks. I like the pictures in different settings.
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 20:20
So lopan how are your buttons coming along, mine suck really bad so far I keep getting millions of tiny bubbles at the surface
it's looking like I'll need a miracle or a set from you
.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 28/03/2003 20:26
I keep getting millions of tiny bubbles at the surface
I never worked with the casting stuff when I worked at the jewelry store, but I seem to recall there being some kind of a spray involved... sort of like Pam for the mold or something.
I could be wrong... It's been years...
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 29/03/2003 01:41
Ok so now most all the bubbles are gone, cool, but now I realize the mold is crap too. Looks like I'll just need to get better at making the mold.
Did I just see the devil in an arctic jacket? Naw must be all the fumes.
"Today was a bad day to stop sniffing glue..."
Ok ok so I'm really really tired.
Night anyone that might be up still.
Posted by: FlibblE
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 29/03/2003 12:27
Not to worry, I'll just have to get off my butt and do it myself! Incredible to think there's another person on this BBS without a digital camera
Cheers.
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 29/03/2003 13:54
Yeah I just can't justify getting the one I'd want to buy, considering I can't justify $300 for an "ok" digital camera.
Oh and a side note I finally did it after all this time and energy I did it. I fininaly, with out a doubt, irrefutably have proved that I am the must inapt human on the face of the earth when it comes to arts and crafts stuff.
Posted by: Derek
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 29/03/2003 18:02
I drilled pinholes in my buttons quite a few months ago and posted the pics
here
and
here.
aw heck, here's the pics:
There is also a pic of one of Tim's NewFaces on my empeg with lit buttons
here
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 29/03/2003 19:12
You need a knob-LED with that new faceplate!
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 29/03/2003 19:23
So can the knob on the NewFace be lit up too?
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 29/03/2003 19:57
I believe I have seen a photo of one lit up, elsewhere on the BBS.
Cheers
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 29/03/2003 20:16
So lopan how are your buttons coming along
Got my vacuum pump... ran out of my trial size of plastic... ordered a gallon of the stuff (this time longer setting, figured it might help in degassing if I didn't have to worry about it setting up in my container)... Have some spray mold release I might try... so if I can get the bubbles out I should be able to start doing something with this within the next two weeks.
Posted by: StigOE
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 29/03/2003 21:13
So can the knob on the NewFace be lit up too?
Yup. Attached is a picture of my NewFaced Empeg with lit NewKnob (crap picture though...) This is with a 4-led board (homemade using Brian's pictures).
Stig
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 29/03/2003 21:33
Cool, thats good to hear. You using resin or epoxy? And I still will buy a set from you just send me a PM when you're ready.
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 30/03/2003 07:46
smoothcast 327 resin...
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 30/03/2003 13:23
Have some spray mold release I might try...
Ah, that's the stuff all right. That's what I remember from the Jewelry store now. Just didn't remember what it was called.
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 30/03/2003 16:30
well, I have it, mostly use it to seperate my molds, never really thought about using it for the buttons. The silicone mold material I use doesn't stick at all to the buttons, and only a few freak occurences have produced buttons with the bubbles on the surface they've all been internal. But hey, I'll give it a shot what the hell right?
Posted by: JrFaust
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 31/03/2003 19:01
Ok Pics of my mods
This show two things, one the blue ring around the button that's kewl the other is the light on all the innards I dislike that, but the camera doesn't show it all that well.
I have an idea that will will defuse the light and block it from showing the innards.
Posted by: csf
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 01/04/2003 07:33
Put electrical tape on the back of the lens. You won't see the internals - just make sure not to cover up the IR thingie.
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 01/04/2003 08:31
Nice job on the knob board btw....
Posted by: FlibblE
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 01/04/2003 10:28
Wow, I like it. Thanks for taking the time out to get a picture. A 'magic-marker' style mod would do for the diffuse light, I reckon.
I think I'm gonna have to give it a go, break out the Maplins catalogue!
Cheers.
Posted by: Derek
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 01/04/2003 11:36
True, but since I gave the faceplate back to Tim after we tried it out and I don't have any pinholes in my knob yet it isn't a lot of use. One day when I finally get a little free time ...
Posted by: Clarke
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 02/04/2003 00:26
I'm in. I placed an order for Hulksters kit over six months ago and have received nothing - and I get no response to my emails.
Cheers,
=-C
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 04/04/2003 07:20
DIRTY DIRTY DIRTY LITTLE BUBBLES ARRRRRGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!
Got my new longer setting plastic, vacuum pump, got a vacuum chamber set up, used mold release. Got everything set up, pulled a lot of bubbles out of the mix during degassing. Poured the plastics.... waited 2 hours.... and there they were... those little fricking bubbles, the bubbles that won't go away (not as many but they are still there)....
Not sure what to do, I've got a crapload of money invested in this button producing endevour now... and I honestly can't sell them and feel good about it until I can get the bubbles out.
Smoothon technical support said it might have something to do with humidity but I'm doing this stuff in the dryest place in my house... So I'm wondering if this might be regional? That would suck... have one more idea that I'm going to try tonight, which is shake well before using (as printed in the smoothon instructions), measure both parts out... then let it sit (the chemicals involved are very low viscosity, supposedly degassing isn't required) for a long time, then mix, degass and pour.... we'll see...
If this doesn't work I might have some button molds to sell
Posted by: justinlarsen
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 04/04/2003 10:11
You can try this and invest more money into the venture
http://r5.us.rmi.yahoo.com/rmi/http://amos.catalogcity.com/cc.class/cc/rmivars%3ftarget=_top?pcd=3368017&ccsyn=15
Can you post pictures of the buttons and these bubbles? Im curious to see how bad it is.
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 04/04/2003 10:21
well I would... but I just ordered a new digital camera to replace the one I broke in ireland, so kind of shorthanded on the monitary side of things but I will be able to post a better picture of the buttons soon.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 04/04/2003 10:40
Huh? What exactly is that "Air-Dryr Dehumidifier" supposed to accomplish, other than recirculating humid air (which a basic fan would also accomplish)?
Cheers
Posted by: genixia
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 04/04/2003 10:44
What about in-mold degassing?
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 04/04/2003 11:09
What exactly is that "Air-Dryr Dehumidifier" supposed to accomplish
It's really just a low-level heater. I't intended to keep air warm enough to keep water dissolved in it (is that the right term?), rather than condensing and causing surface dampness. It's intended for boats and other dank places. It certainly wouldn't reduce humidity, but it would reduce relative humidity. Probably not what's required here and wouldn't do anything useful at all.
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 05/04/2003 23:01
What about in-mold degassing?
Just tried that tonight.... bubbles... still, granted cut down just a tad but enough that when they glow, you can see em... I seriously want to help people here with some buttons but damn this is becoming very... very frustrating. I remember talking to Brian he used the exact same materials and never had any issues with bubbles. He mentioned he lived in a less damp climate then I do, I still don't know if thats really the issue but I took classes on molding and casting in college!! I honestly can't think of anything else?
this really blows
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 06/04/2003 06:00
Greetings!
How bad are the bubbles? Depending on size / location / distribution, they might give a neat effect when backlit by the LEDs.
Posted by: smu
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 06/04/2003 07:47
Hi Paul.
I thought along the same lines, and would really be _very_ interested to see images of his latest tries.
cu,
sven
Posted by: lopan
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 06/04/2003 07:56
I'll post a picture, I ordered
this camera, and should be receiving it this week sometime (does anyone know if this is a decent camera, it got good reviews?) But the effect is just a few small black spots in the button... Not really anything cool like "tiny imperfections so you know they were handblown by peasants" or anything like that
Posted by: simspos
Re: Backlit "pinhole" buttons, anyone? - 07/04/2003 01:31
Geez, must be frustrating as hell being so close, don't falter now
Have just read the smooth-cast 327 datasheet and sure enough it does mention working in a warm environment and also that moisture may be problematic (but mainly with shelf-life rather than properties)
So, taking that to its limit,.... I know you haven't got a huge amount of time before this stuff starts curing but you could pre-heat the resin and hardener components before you mix (this will reduce the viscosity even more allowing easier de-gassing and also address any moisture issues).
Start off with a 10 to 20 degree centigrade increase and see if your working time is acceptable and of course whether it makes any difference. Also may be worth heating the mould and mixing vessel to match the resin temperature as well as working in a >25 deg C environment.
Anyway, good luck. Sim