Is it possible to upgrade without serial?
Posted by: adavidw
Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 11:48
Okay, let's imagine for a second the following scenario: A man is in a remote mountain cabin with his empeg, a computer, and internet access. However, a pack of weasels break into the cabin, break the man's arms and legs, rip his flesh, and worst of all, steal the serial cable for his empeg. The man now has no way to leave the cabin to get another serial cable, and since it's so remote, no one can come to deliver him another one.
In that scenario, if the man wants to upgrade to 2.0 is he completely out of luck? Or, can he hack through it somehow?
Hypothetical man has hijack installed. So isn't there some way that the upgrade file could be dissected so that the kernel is discarded and the binaries get installed to the root of the drive using good old linux? If I remember correctly, the upgrade file completely wipes out the root partition and replaces it with a new one. If that can't be done, then I suppose at least the relevant binaries can be copied over (assuming they can get extracted out of the upgrade file).
(The actual situation is that I'm out of town for several days, and would like to at least sample the goodness of 2.0. However, my serial cable is at home, and I don't feel like buying another one when I have a perfectly good one at home. I do dislike weasels, though.)
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 11:57
You could conceivably do it. There's code available to explode the .upgrade files (search here for UpgradeSplitter). There are a number of things that needs to be upgraded in flash. Mark has demonstrated that this is doable inside the OS, though I don't think that there's any currently implemented code to replace an arbitrary address in the flash -- only the kernel point -- though it shouldn't be hard to make that enhancement.
In addition, the majority of the data in the .upgrade file is a filesystem image for the root partition. There ought to be a way to do this, even if I can't think of it right now. Perhaps that's some of what the flash upgrades do in the .upgrade file?
Regardless, there's no way to do this all currently. A significant amount of development would have to happen, but I don't think it's not overcomeable.
(BTW, I like the oblique FZ reference.)
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 12:58
"It was right about then that a little ditty started going through my head. It went a little something like this: AAAAAAAGGGH! GET 'EM OFF ME, GET 'EM OFF ME, GAAAAAAAA!"
Posted by: mlord
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 16:11
It is very possible, but nobody has bothered writing the small program required for it yet, since upgrades are usually pretty rare.
But now that the Linux upgclient tool no longer works for me (doesn't like my newer notebook computer), I suppose I'll write an upgrader for Linux.
This one works over ethernet, doesn't wipe out the Hijack kernel (unless you want it to, I suppose), and should be much faster than the old serial based one.
Linux / Unix only, of course. But others are welcome to port it.
I'll have a go at it this evening.
Cheers
Posted by: tms13
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 16:37
Sounds good, Mark - definitely something I'd use.
The option to wipe Hijack would be nice, but the most likely use for it would be for verifying bugs against a pristine player, and it's probably best to use the Empeg-supplied upgclient if possible for that, for 100% confidence the bug is their fault.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 19:45
best to use the Empeg-supplied upgclient if possible
upgclient currently only works under Linux/x86. I have multiple Unix machines and none of them fit that requirement.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 21:23
Okay, I can now do an upgrade of my player in just under two minutes, not including the final reboot and rebuild of the player database.
Cool.
I've got a few things left to clean up before I unleash this:
-- kill the player before doing the upgrade
-- reboot the machine afterwards
-- force a database rebuild (just delete the database files, I guess)
But apart from that, it's working reasonably well.
As a short-cut, it calls "gunzip" (for the root partition data, which comes gzip'd in the upgrade file), and "ncftpput" to do the FTP transfers for me. Anyone who thinks they may want to run this sometime soon should hunt down the "ncftpput" program while they're waiting for me. It is part of the "ncftp" program suite, for which source code is available for most unices. I happen to be using version 3.1.5 on my machine.
Once it's all nicely working, I might build the FTP client stuff into the program, but for now I'm sticking with the lazy approach.
Cheers
Posted by: mlord
Hijack v328 - 04/04/2003 21:25
And, oh yeah, I'll be releasing Hijack v328 in a few minutes. The only changes are that it now has extra /proc/ entries for the required flash memory partitions that are written to by the upgrader.
Cheers
Posted by: mlord
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 21:29
Mmm.. actually, deleting the database files will force a rebuild on all reboots until the next sync, so I suppose I need to find out how to do this properly.. is it as simple as booting with the partitions mounted R/W, so that the player can write the new database it creates?
I suppose I could trace what the current upgclient does, if it actually worked on my machine..
Cheers
Posted by: Daria
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 21:47
I don't remember it needing to rebuild on the new boot. I'd guess the upgrade client reads it in (optionally updates it, but probably not) and writes it back out after updating.
Posted by: adavidw
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 21:52
Okay, this is downright ridiculous. I was hoping that someone would point to a way to break up the file so that I could gunzip the relevant parts and stick them up there. Not only do I have that, but somehow I spurred Mark Lord into basically solving the problem for me.
I'm continually amazed at the way idle musings and impossible wishes constantly turn into reality overnight. I just have a really hard time wrapping my head around the talent, skill, creativity, generosity, and all around coolness of everyone in the empeg community.
A hearty thank you to everyone!
Posted by: SE_Sport_Driver
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 22:05
It's great isn't it?
I know the upgrade via ethernet has been a wish for many for quite a while. I guess you just reminded them.
Posted by: mlord
Linux Ethernet Upgrader: preliminary version - 04/04/2003 22:22
Okay, I've attached the current version.
From the README:
This version is pretty simple to use, but not 100% complete.
--> requires Hijack v328 or newer.
--> you should manually "pause" your player first, or put it in stand-by mode.
--> after "upgrader" completes, you must manually reboot your player.
--> after the reboot, you should run emptool or emplode to rebuild the databases.
It works for me.
Posted by: xanatos
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 22:32
"It was right about then that a little ditty started going through my head. It went a little something like this: AAAAAAAGGGH! GET 'EM OFF ME, GET 'EM OFF ME, GAAAAAAAA!"
Wow,
I love this song Tony.
o/` All i have is this box of one dozen starving crazed weasles.
Posted by: xanatos
Re: Linux Ethernet Upgrader: preliminary version - 04/04/2003 22:36
And mark, this is sweet. Everyone has been talking about this for a long time and no one ever really did it. Kudos. This community amazes me. It's sad that I have nothing to contribute
It would be nice seeing this work in Windows, since I don't use *nix as my primary OS. But it really doesn't matter. Since I do it so little
Posted by: Roger
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 22:56
is it as simple as booting with the partitions mounted R/W, so that the player can write the new database it creates?
No, it's simpler. Don't delete the database files at all. There's no need.
If you really want to delete them, then mounting the partitions R/W is all it takes for the player to write them back to disk.
Posted by: jasonc
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 04/04/2003 23:17
I HAte SAurkraut!!!!!
that song rocks
Posted by: ricin
Re: Linux Ethernet Upgrader: preliminary version - 04/04/2003 23:24
I'm by no means a C programmer, but I (very) quickly added support for a user name and password, for those of us that have that turned on in Hijack. Works for me... Source attached.
Thanks Mark!
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Linux Ethernet Upgrader: preliminary version - 05/04/2003 01:48
Too cool, Mark! Now someone has to figure out how to port it to Win32. Then we can all do upgrades in two minutes.
A few thoughts:
--> you should manually "pause" your player first, or put it in stand-by mode.
Isn't there a way to do that programatically with an HTTP command to hijack or something?
--> after "upgrader" completes, you must manually reboot your player.
Ditto?
--> after the reboot, you should run emptool or emplode to rebuild the databases.
Yeah, as I'm reading through this thread, I'm wondering to myself... Why is Mark deleting the database? The factory upgrade doesn't do it... Who told Mark that was needed?
Posted by: mlord
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 06:51
Okay.
I just thought that all of that code in upgclient was probably doing something to the database ... lots of string matches for "database" and "tags" in that binary.
Let's say, theoretically of course, that I was trying out a v3-alpha release.. might not the database format/content theoretically be different on such releases?
Cheers
Posted by: peter
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 07:30
Let's say, theoretically of course, that I was trying out a v3-alpha release.. might not the database format/content theoretically be different on such releases?
Theoretically, yes. But in any theoretical future alpha releases of v3, you won't theoretically have to worry about that, as they'll be using a different theoretical filename for their databases, for precisely this theoretical reason.
Peter
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 07:36
A lot of theory being discussed...
Posted by: mlord
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 08:01
A lot of theory being discussed...
Yeah, this computer programming stuff gets complicated at times..
Speaking of which, I've now attached the latest version of the upgrader utility. This one incorporates FTP user/passwd capability (derived from an earlier post in this thread), and automatically reboots the player after the upgrade has been applied. One should still pause the player before doing the upgrade, though.
Cheers
Posted by: SE_Sport_Driver
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 08:30
Any chance of getting a "HiJack free" player "HiJacked" via ethernet? (I know HiJack updates can be done via ethernet, but only if HiJack is previously installed.)
Posted by: mlord
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 08:45
I have not figured out a way to do that, and as much as I dislike saying it, I don't think it's easily done. There might be a buffer exploit of some kind that one could use in the player to trick it into uploading and running arbitrary code, but short of that..
Cheers
Posted by: image
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 09:51
There might be a buffer exploit of some kind that one could use in the player to trick it into uploading and running arbitrary code
haha... i can see the headlines now.
EMPEG owners being DOSed by a worm that exploits a buffer overflow in the player software, reverting it version to 1.03.
Posted by: adavidw
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 19:55
The upgrading over ethernet worked flawlessly for me. My Unix machine is somewhere between Houston and Tucson right now, but thanks to the miracle of
Knoppix, I was able to boot my Windows machine into Linux, upgrade the empeg, and shut down, all in less time than it would have taken to drive to the local store for a serial cable.
Posted by: mlord
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 20:17
OOoooo! And yet another creative application of KNOPPIX!
Well done, dude!
Posted by: xanatos
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 21:41
Wow that's a pretty nifty thing. I've never heard of it.
*Now downloading*
Posted by: mlord
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 05/04/2003 22:03
For best results with KNOPPIX, override the default 800x600 resolution at boot time: knoppix screen=1600x1200 (or whatever your monitor can take).
Cheers
Posted by: phi144
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 06/04/2003 05:00
I'm not familiar with Linux. Is this something MS slaves can figure out?
Posted by: smu
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 06/04/2003 07:37
Hi.
To you think it would be feasible to integrate a similar feature into Jemplode?
I should probably ask mschrag about this, but wanted to ask you for your opinion first.
cu,
sven
PS: One other thing, completely unrelated: Do you think it would be possible to integrate a function into the Linux IDE driver to re-scan an IDE bus? My notebook (Dell Latitude C840) allows plug'n'pray operation of its second (sic!) CD-drive (first is permanently installed), which works like a charm under Windows XP, but doesn't work under Linux. What ' ya think?
Posted by: smu
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 06/04/2003 07:42
Well, Knoppix is quite easy to use, and I think just about any intelligent PC user (even without any Linux experience) should be able to use that. However, I am not too sure wether Mark's program is as easy to use as Knoppix. It shouldn't be too hard though.
Just download the english version of Knoppix (link posted earlier) and try it.
cu,
sven
Posted by: mlord
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 06/04/2003 08:32
Hi,
Given that my current upgrader compiles to about 9KB of code, it is certainly small enough to go into JEmplode. Note that JEmplode already has some built-in FTP client stacks, so the ncftpput external program would not be needed there.
As for hotplugging a CD-ROM: if it's the only device on it's particular IDE channel (say, "hdc", with no "hdd" device), then what you want is already in the kernel. It's just a matter of having userland support for it. You might be able to do it yourself with just "hdparm -U" followed by "hdparm -R", but I'll leave it to you to figure out the parameters.
Cheers
Posted by: mlord
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 06/04/2003 08:36
>I am not too sure wether Mark's program is as easy to use
With KNOPPIX running: ALT-F2 (pops up a command prompt),
and then type in:
upgrader empeg_ip_addr car2-developer-v2.00.upgrade
Of course, one first has to grab the upgrader and .upgrade files, and copy them into KNOPPIX. This would involve some point and click with the mouse, and so may be too complex for most of us..
Posted by: phi144
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 06/04/2003 10:39
Hey now, just asking.
Posted by: muzza
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 07/04/2003 04:01
"It was right about then that a little ditty started going through my head. It went a little something like this: AAAAAAAGGGH! GET 'EM OFF ME, GET 'EM OFF ME, GAAAAAAAA!"
you've got weasels on your face
ahhh zelda
Posted by: 94cobra
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 08/04/2003 18:12
I thought of the same exact song when reading the scenario. I love that song. But I love sourkrout.
Posted by: adavidw
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 09/04/2003 22:59
I thought of the same exact song when reading the scenario
Completely by design. The odd thing is that I'm really not into Zappa that much. He's one of those that I can tell has some sort of greatness, but I'm not quite taken in by the music, and I know it's just because I'm not ready for it. I'm going through life with the assumption that I'll be a huge Zappa fan someday. It's just that I haven't reached the right level of maturity yet. No more than another five years, though. It's a crying shame I couldn't have got to that point while he was still alive.
So, even though I'm not really into Zappa, I can't even hear the word "weasels" without at least picturing the album cover.
[Edit:
link for those who have no idea what we're talking about.]
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 11:25
I was actually referring to Weird Al's "Albuquerque", which, I'm ashamed to admit, I didn't know was a reference to Zappa until now.
Posted by: adavidw
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 13:43
Okay, now I'm confused. I know naught of the "Albuquerque". I just thought you were getting the Zappa reference. Maybe the two songs have no connection at all...
I'll do a little digging so I can find the Weird Al song. Now I want to check it out.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 13:59
Reminds me of a time when a co-worker was explaining the old line "We don't need no steeking badges" to someone else. The problem was, he was explaining it as a reference to Blazing Saddles, having never seen Treasure of the Sierra Madre, not realizing that Blazing Saddles was referencing the Bogart film.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:08
There’s nothing worse than getting caught talking like you're "in the know" and then revealing your ignorance. I should know, it happens to me all the time. You think I'd learn to start keeping my trap shut.
As an aside, I wonder how many people think that the "badges" reference originated with Blazing Saddles?
Posted by: tonyc
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:10
As an aside, I wonder how many people think that the "badges" reference originated with Blazing Saddles?
Guilty as charged. Never knowingly watched a Bogart film of any kind... Knew the Blazing Saddles line was a play on some prior movie, but couldn't have told you which one.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:12
What I found most interesting was that the co-worker thought that scene in Blazing Saddles was funny, even when he didn't get the reference.
Posted by: revlmwest
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:13
In reply to:
Guilty as charged. Never knowingly watched a Bogart film of any kind...
Oh man, your killing me... I watched
The Big Sleep last night on AMC, complete with extra footage. It was great, as most anything with him and his wife.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:13
Blazing Saddles is rife with racist humor anyway, so maybe it was just the outrageous Mexican accents.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:14
Not to mention based on a Raymond Chandler novel, having a screenplay written by William Faulkner, and directed by Howard Hawks. Great stuff.
You gotta wonder why they made that awful ``remake'' with Robert Mitchum in the late 70s. The Big Lebowski was pretty darn good, though.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:16
For reference, the scene in Treasure of the Sierra Madre is when Bogart is looking for gold in the mountains, and some Mexican banditos come to rob him. They claim they are federales (cops), but he says "if you're federales, where are your badges?". The reply line is (usually misquoted as) "we don't need no steeeking badges". If I recall correctly, the line is more complicated than that and doesn't actually contain those words in that order, but it's kind of stuck that way. I suppose I could look up the real line at IMDB...
Posted by: revlmwest
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:18
If remember correctly the first movie they were in together was also by Faulkner and directed by Hawks. Great stuff. I wonder how many people get fed up with the ambiguous plot lines. Personally, that may be what I like best about them.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:23
Sure enough:
To Have and Have Not. I've honestly not seen this one, and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around Faulkner adapting Hemingway.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:25
I suppose I could look up the real line at IMDB...
Couldn't resist...
Blazing Saddles (1974)
Mexican Bandit: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!
Treasure of the Sierra Madre, The (1948)
Gold Hat: Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
I'm think the "Play it again, Sam" line falls under the same category: A slight misquote that's stuck over the years. Odd that they're both for Bogart films...
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:25
Thanks Tony, I've never seen the movie (though I have seen a few other of Bogart's) and didn't know that it was from that movie (yes, I'm guilty too). I have never found the line particularly funny, but I always smile knowingly whenever anyone says it (so as to avoid the awkward moment of silence that immediately follows a joke if you don’t at least smile). I wonder how many people find the line funny for no other reason that others find it funny?
Posted by: revlmwest
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:26
My personal favorite... although it lacks Bacall, is the Maltese Falcon. Again with hard to follow plot lines.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:26
For the record, it's not funny in TotSM.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:28
We should put together a film noir/empeg meet.
I need to go back and watch these movies again. I haven't seen
The Maltese Falcon in many years.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:30
For the record, it's not funny in TotSM.
Right... It's a rather tense moment in the film, in fact. It's only funny as a reference.
Of course, I spent years watching Mystery Science Theater 3000, which is nothing but reference humor. Most of their jokes go over your head, but they fire so many at you that some of them are bound to stick. And out of the ones that do, the most obscure ones are the funniest, because it makes you feel like they're inside your head.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 14:31
Yeah, I kind of guessed that. However, I can see how it would be funny in Blazing Saddles, if it was a reference to another movie. If not, it's just a line that could be funny because of accents or inflections of the voice. While certainly there are quotable lines like this (Monty Python has several, the “I’m not dead” line being a prime example, even though it’s usually misquoted), I'd never found this one particularly amusing.
Posted by: Daria
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 15:07
You mean they didn't copy it from UHF?
"Badgers? Badgers? We don't need no stinking badgers!"
Posted by: Gleep
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 10/04/2003 20:46
I prefer the line from Casablanca
How extravagant you are throwing women away like that, someday they may be scarce.
Posted by: revlmwest
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 11/04/2003 07:33
Ahh the dear Capt. Renault... my personal favorite from Casablanca is when the Germans are reporting that they have an entire dossier on Rick, who upon reading the material asks... Are my eyes really brown?
Posted by: peter
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 11/04/2003 08:06
We did
Casablanca at a Planet Empeg film night the other week... most of Empeg hadn't seen it, and Mike said it was very weird watching a film he'd never seen but where he knew all the best lines already.
Also, anyone who loves
Casablanca should read Umberto Eco's essay on it in
Faith In Fakes.
Peter
Posted by: furtive
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 11/04/2003 08:50
Whoa! This threads got off topic.
Did a MS version of the NetUpgrade thingy materialise?
Posted by: adavidw
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 14/04/2003 23:43
Okay, I dug through my collection, and realized that I actually do know the Weird Al song. I think that when people started quoting it here, my brain registered familiarity, and I assumed everyone was getting the Zappa reference. After listening to both songs again, I'm pretty sure that there is no link between them, other than the whole weasel thing, of course.
Posted by: jamville
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 14/04/2003 23:48
Which Zappa tune were you referring to?
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 15/04/2003 07:02
Posted by: jamville
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 15/04/2003 10:51
Thank you.
Posted by: blitz
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 17/04/2003 14:40
It's a rather tense moment in the film, in fact. It's only funny as a reference.
Clip
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 17/04/2003 15:27
COOOOL clip, thanks!
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 17/04/2003 15:31
Even more interesting is its parent page:
http://www.darryl.com/badges/
Posted by: Banacek
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 02/05/2003 20:37
I was just wondering if the MS version of the upgrader ever came about...
Posted by: Derek
Re: Is it possible to upgrade without serial? - 03/05/2003 03:34
and did anyone ever get around to porting the ethernet upgrader to the Mac? I had a go, but got bogged down pretty early on ... :-(