Mlord Dock and Digital Out...Questions...

Having just got my new Dock (No.14) I have plugged it up to my Hi-Fi. As I listen to most of my music via my PC with a set of Sennheiser HD590 Headphones plugged directly into my Soundblaster Audigy2, I thought I would plug the Dock into the Line In.

I was a little disappointed with the sound quality. I would like to add this is nothing to do with the Dock or the Empeg, but I pick up background computer noise (HD and network etc...) from the line in of the soundcard itself and thats why I usually mute the channel.

So I thought I would get on and get a Coax Digital Out Board and wire it up via the mic in as I see no future use for it. And Mark kindly sent me 2 pins to do the job too. I have a few questions...

1 - Why is the postage for international orders $40 ??? For a little board ! This is seriously putting me off, it was only $15 to get the dock here. I understand it is a secure transit etc... but for what must only be a tiny package it seems steep.

2 - Has anyone with a digital output board tried pluging it into the CD SPDIF input of a soundblaster, will it work ??? The Audigy2 has no External SPDIF in so I will have to custome make a cable to the internal Digital CD in.

3 - What is the chance of damaging the Empeg soldering the thing on, I have limited soldering experience, I know I can't SMD stuff, is it just normal spacing ???

4 - Will it be worth the effort, or should I just get a better soundcard ???

Cheers

Cris.

Will it be worth the effort, or should I just get a better soundcard ???

A different brand of sound card isn't going to solve your ground loop problems with your audio hook ups. You need to tackle that stuff first. Start by plugging different things into different circuits if possible (instead of all into the same power strip), and see if you can swap out power supplies, too. For instance, I got ground loop noise on the car player in certain situations with one power supply but not the other.

A different brand of sound card isn't going to solve your ground loop problems with your audio hook ups.

Is that always what these problems are? I have a similar setup at Empeg Towers, and suffered from loads of noise both from the car-player and from Winamp except during digital silence, and improved matters a lot by getting rid of junk I didn't need on the PCI bus and moving the sound card to the end slot, so there was nothing between its component side and the case.

Peter

Post deleted by maczrool

In reply to:

---

1 - Why is the postage for international orders $40 ??? For a little board ! This is seriously putting me off, it was only $15 to get the dock here. I understand it is a secure transit etc... but for what must only be a tiny package it seems steep.

---

Simple, it goes by the fastest way possible via FedEx. I hate dealing with the postal service here and its innumerable forms when sending things abroad. We have an account with FedEx and use them for all international shipping. Typically 2nd day air is what you can expect to get. They don't do surface on internation shipments as far as I know. Trust me, we don't make any money off of the shipping. In fact, we have issued shipping refunds in the past. It's just that PayPal does not allow for flexibility in shipping charges.

In reply to:

---

2 - Has anyone with a digital output board tried pluging it into the CD SPDIF input of a soundblaster, will it work ??? The Audigy2 has no External SPDIF in so I will have to custome make a cable to the internal Digital CD in.

---

I have an Audigy 2 too, so not on a Soundblaster, but on the digital input of another sound card, yes. Sounds very good all things considered. Tony mentioned that you need to eliminate ground loops first and foremost, which is true, but I didn't see that specifically mentioned in your post. Is the noise there only when you plug something into the line in, or is it there, even when nothing is plugged in? My Audigy 2 has no such noise.

In reply to:

---

3 - What is the chance of damaging the Empeg soldering the thing on, I have limited soldering experience, I know I can't SMD stuff, is it just normal spacing ???

---

I suppose if you shorted something or managed to reverse the polarity, you might damage something, although if you follow the directions its hard to miss. There is one surface mount lead that you have to solder to on the crystal, but that's it, and it's not small at all. The other 4 connections are through hole pads spaced .1" I believe. Still if you don't know what you are doing with the soldering iron, I advise you to stay away from doing the installation.

In reply to:

---

4 - Will it be worth the effort, or should I just get a better soundcard ???

---

If you really are getting noise in the line connecting to the line in that you cannot eliminate, then I guess it would be worth it, but otherwise no. Computer sound cards generally are not well known for their sound quality regardless of the quality of the card. I think it would go unnoticed.

Stu

Unfortunatly I chose a small shuttle cube case last time I upgraded as I thought I would not need to upgrade, but it is quite a limiting system, ie I can't change the PSU I upgraded the soundcard in the one and only PCI slot to get rid of the awful gound loop problem on the onboard one.

I have no problem with the output of the Audigy2, only the input, I don't think it is ground loop, as I can plug in a battery powered device (my Riot) and still get the same problem, but it does sound like it is being generated on the sound card as I can hear the harddrive activity etc...

maczrool

I didn't think you were on the make on the shipping, but it is 40% of the price of the unit, in my book FEDEX it a bit of an overkill just for a PCB, if I were sending my Empeg then sure. If I bug you enough will you send it via a cheaper method ??? I would like and LED board too when you have them.

I was going to make a lead that goes from the internal CD SPDIF IN on the car, through the case (some vent hole) and put an inline phono socket on the end of it to plug the output of the board into, will this not work then ??? I can't find much out about the digital input of the Audigy, but it is labeled SPDIF in the board and has 2 connectors.

I downloaded the instrucitions (should have done this before asking I know) and I think I will be able to handle it.

I have had the dock in bits just now, spot on bit of work Mr Lord, there will be loads of room for the mod. The level of work that has gone into these docks is amazing, the finish is very good indeed, I not sure what I was expecting, but this is much much better, there is even a vari resistor to change fan speed, genius.

On the sound quality issue, I find the Audigy to have one of the best sounding outputs of any of my equiptment, I don't buy the real expensive Hi-Fi gear, but I much prefer the sound of my headphone plugged directly into the PC, hense I listen to most music from it, it also helps to keep the neighbours happy.

I have not done an Empeg hack yet (well added a 2nd HD but that doesn't count) I think this could be a good place to start, it's just the shipping thats putting me off.

Thanks

Cris.

I have been listening all after noon, I think it is ground loop coming from the Empeg itself, I do get a bit of this in the car, but I have put filters on the RCA outs to stop this.

mmm, do you think I different PSU may help, I have noticed a slight hummimg when the dock is plugged in without the empeg in ??? This goes away when I push it into the dock and I can hear the HD's again, although I can hear my mouse moving around too ???

It is only very slight, I can only hear it the gaps etc...

I have made an mp3 of the noise, this is not amplified, it is with the song paused and change tracks, you can hear the first then second drive spin up and then data transfer, I have just taken the sled out of the car and rigged it up here to take the dock out of the equation, the only thing that solves it is to go to the DC Power in, then no noise ???

Any clues, oh mp3 is here ... http://www.2b1q.com/empeg/empegnoise.mp3

Cheers

Cris.

In reply to:

---

I didn't think you were on the make on the shipping, but it is 40% of the price of the unit, in my book FEDEX it a bit of an overkill just for a PCB, if I were sending my Empeg then sure. If I bug you enough will you send it via a cheaper method ???

---

Parcel Post is $21 insured to the UK. Add about 3.5% for PayPal and the total is about $22. My time is worth something, so add another $5 for handling. That's $27. That's still 27% of the cost of the board. It will require me to fill out about half a dozen forms and wait in line for 20 minutes, but if you really must save a few bucks I guess I could accomodate.

In reply to:

---

was going to make a lead that goes from the internal CD SPDIF IN on the car, through the case (some vent hole) and put an inline phono socket on the end of it to plug the output of the board into, will this not work then ??? I can't find much out about the digital input of the Audigy, but it is labeled SPDIF in the board and has 2 connectors.

---

I don't quite follow what you are asking. Would you clarify a bit?

Stu

Ok point taken, I will pay the FedEx, but I will wait until you have the LED boards aswell. Sorry for being such a pain, but I was always taught if you don't ask you don't get

Yea, I read it back myself, not much sense.

Basically, is the CD SPDIF IN on the internal onboard connector of the Audigy 2, usually used for the CD/DVD drive input, a standard SPDIF, and therefore compatable with the Empeg's SPDIF output ???

I think that makes more sense.

Thanks again

Cris.

mmm, do you think I different PSU may help

It did for me. In the specific case of a ground loop that was happening when I plugged the car player into the stereo of a certain friend of mine. I was using the Sunpower "brick" PSU, and I had the ground loop noise. When I switched it to the "compact plug top" adapter, the noise went away.

Surely there must be a cheaper way to ship?

From here, I can send airmail to ANYWHERE on the planet for US$25, and surface mail for under US$15.

Cheers

My player also makes this noise. I first noticed it when I was listening to it at home through headphones. I can't hear it in the car, nor at home when I listen through normal speakers so it doesn't bother me much.

I'll try what Tony suggests : use the compact top adapter (right now I'm also using the brick type), and see if this solves it.

OK to answer my own question...

The Internal SPDIF input on the Audigy2 (prob. most other cards too) is a standard SPDIF Input so should work with the Empeg digital output board. I wired it up to my spare dvd player I normally use in the bedroom to a custom cable, phono on one end and and 2pin board connector on the the other and I could get audio. Bargin.

For anyone who maybe interested, the centre pin of the phono is the white wire of the SPDIF CD/DVD PC cable, and the outer is the black.

So all there is to do now is to wire up a phono socket to a blanking plate and I have SPDIF In ready for my Empeg upgrade.

I would like to get to the bottom of the ground loop on the analogue side though, any other ideas ???

Cheers

Cris.

I am open to other methods, but as far as the digital out boards go, the only cheaper method I saw was surface, and that was only for letters, which does not include insurance, which we insist on using. Cheapest way through the mail is via Global Express Mail with $100 insurance. That works out to about $27, as a stated earlier. For the LED PCBs, I think they could be shipped for considerably less.

Stu

I had a look at my Audigy 2 card last night and saw the connector you described. When I saw that it was labeled "CD S/PDIF" I feared it only accepted TTL levels (as that is what many computer CD ROMs have) rather than the standard .5 volts P-P levels normally associated with S/PDIF. Glad to hear it worked.

Where is the option to use the digital input in the sound card drivers? Does it suddenly become available when connecting a digital source?

Stu

I have made up the blank plate for the back of the PC (see attachment). I have used a bit of black tape to insulate from the PC's case just in case.

It is under "CD Digital" on the surround mixer. Click on one of the channels with the yellow arrow on to get more inputs, yours may be on that ??? It was on by default for me.

The dock is next

I have completed the work on the Dock, see attached. The new Digital Out is the black phono in the centre next to the power.

Mark, you might want to think about offering this as an option, I would have paid extra for this and it is a very easy mod.

All I need now is the Digital Out Board.

Cheers

Cris.

Another picure of the workings behind the Dock, good work by Mark (or SWSNBN), and check out my little bit...

Looks nice.

I have been thinking about offering this as an option, but the dock is complex enough already with its 75 individual pieces, and I don't want to slow down assembly even more with too many "custom options".

Cheers

You did a good job on the digital connector on the dock and the slot cover mounted connector.

Thanks for the tip on the S/PDIF. It was there all along. I was looking for "Digital In" or "S/PDIF In" somewhere and couldn't find it.

And about your Senn HD-590s. I'm sure they sound great. I have a pair of HD-600s and they are by far the best (and most expensive) headphones I have ever owned.

Stu

just my 2 cents here - i just sent a small package to the UK, insured for $100, for about $9 USD.

Tell me more. $100 insurance is not enough for most of the things we ship. I think I can safely lower the price of shipping to $25 for the boards, and will probably be doing so soon. It will take a little longer in transit, but you will save $15. Remember, we have to cover all destinations to anywhere in the world with one flat rate.

Stu

I got one of the first digital out boards and the shipping prices weren't that bad IMO. The worst part was getting the customs bill. I think I got stung for around $40
You can't really do much about that really unless you don't insure it at all. And I've had shipments just disappear so it's not a good idea. Half the time it turns up about 3 months later because somebody somewhere can't read and shipped it to somewhere random.

- Trevor

Thanks Trevor for backing me up and sorry about the customs bill. If I knew a way to be sure things wouldn't get confiscated that would save you international orderers money, I would certainly do it.

Stu

It's simple to avoid customs charges, send them like mlord does, via the post office.

If you send it via a courier to the UK FedEx will charge my approx $15 customs plus VAT plus import duty, so I will end up paying $180 for a $100 part.

If you send it via the USPS then it come via royal mail and usually small packages from individuals never get checked and is ony a few pounds at the worst.

I think you should look closley at your shipping costs, it is loosing you business. I for one are holding off just because of that. I can understand your reasons as explained earlier in the thread, but I'm sure you can see mine too.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers

Cris.

If you send it via the USPS then it come via royal mail and usually small packages from individuals never get checked and is ony a few pounds at the worst.

Unfortunately, out of the dozen or so packages I have had sent to via USPS to the UK, only about 50% of them actually ever arrived. So Fedex works out cheaper for me in the long run anyway...

Shipping it via the post office won't help. I've had small packages sent and they've also been charged. How likely it is to be charged is based on how much the declared value is from what I hear. If it's low then they don't bother as it's just not worth them doing it.
Royal Mail also charges VAT, import duty and a handling fee. So it's pretty much similar to what you'd get charged by FedEx. Annoying aspect of Royal Mail is that if nobody is around to pay the fees when it's delivered, they take it away with them and you have to go to their sorting office to pick it up. FedEx will leave it and just send me a bill later on.
It really depends on how busy the customs office is on that particular day...

- Trevor

Nah. You don't need to feel sorry about it. It's the price I pay for buying stuff abroad whilst living in the UK
I've not actually installed my digital out board. I've done all of the soldering and mounting of the board but not quite worked out how I can make the holes in the casing. I'm using the coax output via the mic pins until then.

- Trevor

I just wanted to backup what Stu, maczrool, said about using the US Postal Service for shipping. Earlier this year I sold a lot of electronic equipment on eBay to buyers in the US and Canada. I gave up on using USPS after repeatedly standing in line, for up to 20 minutes, to mail a simple package. When I used USPS, at the insistance of the buyer, for a package to Canada, they not only could not track the package I paid for tracking on but it disappeared for six weeks between California and Ontario.

FedEx just makes life easier, usually reduces my stress over shipping and yes, I pay more but, for me, it is worth it.

Michael

for an example, see http://ircalc.usps.gov/details.asp?txtMaxIndemnity=2020&txtIndemnity=500&RadioReturn=1.75&Method=20&Cost=16&Commit=4+-+10+Days&MethodText=Airmail+Parcel+Post&Country=Great+Britain+and+Northern+Ireland&Pounds=1&Ounces=0&Oversize=&GXGNonWeight=Max.length+60"%2C+max.+length+plus+girth+108"&bCOM=True&bPickup=True&bReturnReceipt=False&RadioSS=2&cmdSubmit=Continue

That's a 1 pound package with $500 insurance and a return receipt for $25.

Another example is http://ircalc.usps.gov/details.asp?txtMaxIndemnity=40.45&RadioCOM=0&Method=16&Cost=6.4&Commit=4+-+7+Days&MethodText=Airmail+Letter+Post&Country=Great+Britain+and+Northern+Ireland&Pounds=0&Ounces=8&Oversize=&GXGNonWeight=Max.+length+24"%2C+Max.+length%2C+height%2C+depth+combined+36"&bCOM=True&bPickup=False&bReturnReceipt=False&RadioSS=0&cmdSubmit=Continue

That's an 8 ounce padded envelope with no special insurance or handling for $6.40

all rates can be found at http://ircalc.usps.gov/

It makes no difference how cheap it is if the package fails to reach it's destination, which has been my experience 50% of the time.

Sure it does.

If a 500% surcharge is required for insured delivery, I'll go with the cheapie version every time when shipping a $15 circuit board. If it takes two tries (50% success rate), I still save a bundle!

But in practice, I've only had 100% success thus far.

-ml

In reply to:

---

I'll go with the cheapie version every time when shipping a $15 circuit board.

---

The thing is that's not what we're shipping . At least not yet anyway.

Stu

I don't want to presume what the difference is between the component cost and your selling price, but you could add on your own insurance.

For example add $$$ to each order to pay for the odd one that goes missing, I have never had anything go missing, so going with the other figures quoted we could assume that 75% would arrive OK. So for 10 orders that would leave $175 component cost to recover (for example only) so add $17 to each order insurance send them via the cheap mothod and the shipping cost is almost halved.

I would say that it is more likley that 95%+ of orders would arrive OK in time. my dock took 5 weeks but only cost $15 and weighs as much as 100's of boards.

I am in no way complaining etc... (don't want to upset anyone) I can understand that FedEx is way easier for you, it is just for me it is a real pain and will cost me almost the cost of the board again in shipping and customs.

Cheers

Cris.

Yes, FedEx is much better, I just shipped an item to Canada yesterday through the post office and it ended up taking 45 minutes. The line was practically out the door. Nevertheless all international shipping charges have been reduced to $25 and will be shipped via some form of USPS offering.

Stu