Upgraded to 2.0; lost 4 channel sound (Audi TT)

Hi all,

I upgraded to version 2.0 final from 1.02. I have an Audi TT coupe with the Bose system. I had the equalizer set just right in 1.02 - it was a pain in the ass to get the back speakers working. In version 2.0, I can't seem to get the back speakers to work at all - every time I select 4 channel sound (front and rear) the Rio ignores my selection and keeps it at 2 channel.

Anybody have a TT and care to shed light on this problem?

Are you sure your empeg knows if it is on DC power? I assume you're trying to switch the equilizer settings, but does the fader even show up when you click though the knob press menu?

Matthew

Yup, it definitely knows it's in the car. The fader option comes in. I just can't adjust the equalizer like before.

Quick idiot check before anyone else asks you have got mk2 software on it also does the fader work from from to rear.

What i tend to do is using balance and fader sweep round each corner of the car to check everything is okay

but i think what you are saying is it don't want to let you stay in four channel mode on the fader, If this is your first time out with 2.0 it is different in the way the equaliser works from 1.0

Can't remeber exactly how to save setting in 2.0 without empeg in front of me but it is different but check the fader first as it is going to shed a bit more light on your problem, also if you can be arsed and you have the original head unit stick that in and see if it drives the rears okay

Did the idiot check. Still can't figure it out. Any TT folks out there?

What exactly is the problem.

Can't you get any sound out of the rear speakers.

Or

Can't get the equaliser to stay in four channel mode

No sound out of the speakers could be car speific but equaliser not staying in four channel is unlikely to be car specific.

If you can get the old head unit in there even in a quick lash up for ten minutes could eliminate the empeg from the spotlight but only if the rear speakers are not doing anything.

I can't get the equalizer to stay in 4 channel mode. In my old headunit and in 1.02 everythign worked fine. Oh, I should say after I upgraded, I used the kernal modifier to install Richard Lion's volume normalization hack (did I get the name right)?

That would be Richard Lovejoy.

Note that his code has been incorporated into Hijack (since very VERY early on), and has been improved (coefficients) since then in the Hijack version.

Cheers

Okay after arseing around in the car i do belive i have the answer.

If you go for the first memory position called "Flat" and you set it to four channels and then go out of it it returns to 2 channels but strangly enough i stores other changes but if you select any of the others then you can save it and the changes are kept from when you go from 2 channels to four channels.

As i said it is different from 1.02 so it might be that problem not too sure if it is a bug or a feature.

Does anyone have a good equalizer setting for the TT? I swear I've gone ahead and changed to 4-channel (and I now see 4 sets of bars, verses 2 sets of bars before making that setting change). But I can't get good sound out of the back - I'm not even sure if there is sound in the back.

It took me a while to screw around with the settings in 1.02 to get this to work but 2.0 tossed out all these settings.

sweep to back only using the fader and then from left to right using balance to see if you have any duff channels if not how you set it is entirly up to you so even if you get a setting from someone else you mght hate it.

I would have most of the bass to the rear as imagine they are bigger speakers and to the front i would have higher end as they are more lilely to be swamped by road noise.

Best bet drive out to somewhere quite and spend a few hours twiddling

If I try to fade to back, I get no sound. It's weird but Bose only has two line inputs (not four) for the Audi TT coupe. It tries to do this all "intelligently". With 1.02 it was a pain, until I discovered the equalizer and fixed it. But with 2.0 I'm at square one.

At this point i would be reaching for the wire cutters and getting a traditional dum amp

If there are only two inputs, then nothing you can do from the empeg itself should be able to make any difference. When you switch into 4-channel mode, all you're doing is driving the second pair of outputs, which aren't attached to anything.

Does anyone have a good equalizer setting for the TT?

Please click here.

If I try to fade to back, I get no sound. It's weird but Bose only has two line inputs (not four) for the Audi TT coupe.

If that's true, then how is your empeg connected to this amp?

You're not making any sense. You say there are only two connections, but you were successfully using four connections before? How can a software upgrade change the number of plugs on the amp?

From what you're saying, you're correctly doing this, using just the front outputs plugged into the two Bose amp inputs, and leaving the rear outputs disconnected.

Assuming that the Bose amp is doing what you say it does (drives four speakers from two line inputs), then in this configuration, getting silence when fading to back is the correct expected behavior.

In that configuration, you should not be trying to use the four-way equalizer anyhow. Because if you do, you're wasting bands... ten of them never get heard. At least if you put it in proper 2-channel mode, you'll at least get more bands to provide more detailed control over your sound.

There is another idea, which is that maybe the Bose amp drives only two of the four speakers, and depends on the stereo's built-in amp to drive the other two. But the empeg never had a built-in amp like other aftermarket stereos. So the software change doesn't affect this situation either.

Still doesn't answer the question of why four-channel mode won't "stick" on your player. Even if the back two outputs are disconnected, it should let you select four channel mode. Perhaps it's just a user-interface problem? They changed the user interface so that you do things a little differently. Maybe you're putting the cursor on four-channel but you're not actually selecting/confirming it and saving that setting. Make sure you hit the "down" button on that option.

But from what you say, you shouldn't be using 4-channel mode anyway. Wasting bands.

Let me make some clarifications.

Bose in the Audi TT only takes in 2 connections. There are only two inputs. CarToys did the installation but I checked with Audiworld (online forum for Audi folks) and that is correct. So the Empeg is plugged into the Bose with only two inputs.

Now when I drove it off CarToys like that, the Empeg sounded good, but not great. I fiddled around with the equalizer and changed it to 4-channels. Upped the bass, etc. All of a sudden, the music had "life" to it. It had its normal 3-dimensional quality. And I had no complaints.

I upgraded to version 2.0. Boom. Doesn't sound as bad as the original config, but definitely not as good.

I'm really looking for another Audi TT coupe owner to tell me how they configured their Empeg v2.0 so I can replicate.

The Bose drives all four speakers, although the ones in the back are primarily for bass (not quite subwoofers, but Bose is a bizarre system).

Four channels definitely don't stick (they might stick, but when you click Select, it shows 2 channel as highlighted). I do see 4 sets of bands though for custom 2, where I selected 4 channels.

Anyone have a TT coupe with Bose?

Four channels definitely don't stick (they might stick, but when you click Select, it shows 2 channel as highlighted). I do see 4 sets of bands though for custom 2, where I selected 4 channels.

Aha. There's nothing wrong. You're just misunderstanding the user interface. It's a variation on this.

I fiddled around with the equalizer and changed it to 4-channels. Upped the bass, etc. All of a sudden, the music had "life" to it. It had its normal 3-dimensional quality. And I had no complaints.

This isn't because you were suddenly getting something for nothing in terms of the four-channel equalizer. All that happened is that half of the bands you were fiddling with suddendly disappeared, and of the half that remained, their frequency centers changed. Just by chance, erasing some of the bands and changing the frequency centers of the remaining bands happened to be a setting you liked better than what it had been before. But it wasn't doing any magic, it was just a suddenly different (somewhat random) set of frequency corrections.

You don't need the four-channel mode to get those corrections. Two of those four channels were never getting used to begin with (the rear channels).

I upgraded to version 2.0. Boom. Doesn't sound as bad as the original config, but definitely not as good.

Probably because the equalizer code changed significantly between 1.x and 2.x

You just need to put the thing in two channel mode and start tweaking again. If you can remember what the settings of each of the five bands were before, you can adjust the frequency and Q of five of your available ten bands to match, and then use the other five for even more tweaks if you like.

Yeah, basically I've lost all sound on my rear speakers with v2.0. I have no idea how to fix it.

I saw and read the FAQ. That's why I asked for the Audi TT Bose Coupe equalizer setting. I just want to see my rear speakers work again. They worked with v1.02 (with tweaking on the equalizer). Don't ask me how.

I saw this on an old post:

"In the TT, the Bose system only has one set of L+R pre-amp inputs. All of the balancing of the speakers is actually performed by the Bose amplifier. This is most evident by the fact that you can't perform any front/rear fading in the Bose setup, but you can in the stock setup (at least on the TT Coupe). In the TT, the loom connector is configured with many more pins than it actually needs, as it comes from the A3/A4. If you look at the wiring diagram, there are two sets of pins for front and rear pre-amp inputs. On the TT with Bose, only the front pre-amp connectors are actually used."

I swear using the equalizer in v1.02 I got my rear speakers to do something. The car sounded *good*. Right now it sounds entirely front driven.

Yeah, basically I've lost all sound on my rear speakers with v2.0. I have no idea how to fix it.

Hang on, let's be clear about this.

It's one thing to say "when I set the fader to the rear nothing makes any sound", and it's a completely different thing to say "my rear speakers make no sound no matter what".

We've already established that the former was supposed to be happening all the time and that the software upgrade couldn't have changed that.

If the latter, then, based on everything you've already told us (that only the front outputs from the player were connected to the two-channel-only Bose amp), then the software upgrade also has nothing to do with it. If the bose amp drives four speakers from two inputs, and the front speakers are making noise, then the rear speakers must also be making noise.

Unless, of course, the Bose amp or the speakers are fried. Again, unrelated to the upgrade.

One thing I can see as being possible: Your rear speakers are working, they're just mainly bass speakers and you've EQ'd the thing so that it's not putting out much bass. Just turn up the bass and all should be well.

LIke I said before. Anyone have a config working on the Audi TT Coupe with Bose?

This is an interesting thread - it make sme wonder how the original Bose head unit was able to do fading. Did it have a separate control wire or were there simply phasing properties in the audio signal that tell the amp to use the rear vs the front? Does the Bose amp simply split the signal between front and back meaning that signal-wise (not counting amplitude):
Right-Front = Right-Rear
Left-Front = Left-Rear

If this isn't the case, then what would control the signal difference between front and back.

I'd be curious to know if you found that your rear speakers worked again when you reverted back to version 1.0.

I'll downgrade my firmware and tell you if things are fixed.

I don't imagine there's anythign wrong with the sound system since it worked perfectly before the update.

it make sme wonder how the original Bose head unit was able to do fading.

From what was said earlier in this thread, I don't think it does fading at all.

Did the idiot check. Still can't figure it out. Any TT folks out there?

I am, but sorry - I ripped my bose system out and put in a custom system for my empeg. I think there is a picture of it up on Riocar.org somewhere if you want to see it.

I saw this on an old post:

"In the TT, the Bose system only has one set of L+R pre-amp inputs...

IIRC, I think my bose had a center channel up in the front vent. I remember having a fader control on the stock bose radio too. My friend at Tweeter did the install, so I don't remember what connectors the harness had. We ripped everything out, and he somehow managed to cram a tuner and an antenna booster in the console under the empeg sled.

I think there is another TT owner on the bbs, I don't remember his handle, or if he has a bose system setup like yours.

Good luck!

I am sorry to hear you are having so much TT/Empeg trouble. I have a very similar setup to what you describe. I have a 2001 TT roadster w/Bose. The only difference is the roadster has a subwoofer. Unfortunatly I dont have any anwsers, only some info on what I did.

I had to fabricate an interface to continue to use the bose amps - I couldn’t find one for sale here in the states. The setup is documented HERE

As you can see here in the wire diagram :


I had to do all 4 channels. See my post in the installation forum describing my issues with the rear channels (or anything less than all 4)HERE.
I would agree that if you hook up only two channels you would get sound from the rear. Its also true is you only hook up one (say the left front), you will get some amount sound from each speaker (but loudest at left front). I think this is because of the effect processing. I think there is some delay, or stereo enhancing going on in there.

I have not had to make any special EQ settings to compensate for these bose oddities. I run the loudness between 5-6.5, and tweak the treble (hi-jack feature) up +1. I am running ver 2.0 with no problems in the rear speakers.

If you have further questions feel free to email or IM me. Good luck

I have noticed very similar problems since I upgraded to 2.0, in my Nissan XTerra. The four channels doesn’t seem to stick. The empeg knows it’s in the car because the fader option is there.

I’ve found that when I’ve wanted some volume, it didn’t sound as good as in the past – so I fiddled with the equalizer and changed it to four channels and then the music had its “life” back. I’ve had to do this several times, so its not just my own confusion with how the menus work.

I haven’t had time to apply the scientific method to debugging the problem – I’ve only fiddled with the equalizer while driving. I just thought I should let hussein know that I’m seeing the same things he is. I’ll post again when I get a chance to really try to figure out what’s going on.

I will confirm that the first settings (flat) go back to 2 channel when changed to four.

Okay, then it's not just the menu showing the opposite of what's selected, it's actually not sticking with four channels. I'll officially report that.