Empeg is giving me Alternator Whine!!!!

Okay, here's the deal. I recently purchased a Lexus GS. I installed a 5 channel amp, ran power on the right side and signal cables on the left. Ground points on the amp and empeg are perfect and have been moved many different times. I bought a wiring harness so I didn't have to cut into the Stock harness. I installed the Empeg, wired everything up and I get alternator whine. I literally spent 20 hours during the weekend on it, and 4 hours after work on Monday and 5 hours after work last night trying to get rid of the noise. I can not get rid of it. I even bought this ground loop isolator from Car Toys to put inbetween my RCAs and I still have it.

Now check this out, I had a 3 year old CD Player sitting in my garage, so I grabbed that and installed it just to test out my system and I get No Whine At All! What's up with that?

I used to have my Empeg installed in my Durango and never had any noise issues. I also took the Empeg out and put it in my Mom's Accord and it worked perfect there. The whine is really frustrating and annoying. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.

Make sure to triple-check for loose wires on the docking connector.

If that's not it, then... Where is the empeg getting its power and ground? From the BMW's factory harness? If so, try running power and ground yourself directly to the battery and see if that makes it go away.

I'd also run an additional wire grounding the docking sled, this eliminated my alternator whine after trying everything else.

-Zeke

thanks for replying. the harness I'm using plugs into the factory harness, so that I can reinstall the stock deck by just plugging in the old plug. (It's a Lexus, not a BMW)

I'll check the docking connector and I'll try running a line direct from the battery tonight.

I hope it works, I've wasted so much time on it. If it doesn't, I'm gonna give up and buy a new deck.

No need to go to the battery for ground, just take it back to where your amp is grounded.

I hope it works, I've wasted so much time on it. If it doesn't, I'm gonna give up and buy a new deck.

Before you give up on it, read and re-read this FAQ entry, this FAQ entry, and all of the third-party documents linked from those FAQ entries about alternator whine. Make sure to try every single thing they recommend, don't discount anything. You have to be absolutely methodical about it.

Ground loop isolators are a nice try but, but it may be a more insidious problem.
Do your RCA cables have a shield ground or "shield drain"? That is a small wire, usually just at one end of the RCA cable (the head unit end) that is connected to a ground (preferably the case of the head unit).
Many, if not most, "High End" RCA cables don't have shield grounds. They advertise how well shielded their cables are, but without the simple addition of a shield ground, any RF signal crossing the cable has nowhere to go but into the cable. With a shield ground, that RF noise is intercepted and grounded out before it reaches the inner conductors.

I find it remarkably stupid that RCA cables, especially those expensive super-duper, multi-orgamisc, zero-noise cables don't have shield grounds. It makes me seriously doubt all their engineering claims.

First thing, are you using a Mk2 or a RioCar? If it's a Mk2 you may still have the Rolloff caps installed near the RCA connectors. I have now had 4 customers say that their "alternator noise" in BMW, Audi and VW has gone away after I removed them.

Secondly, have you tried earthing the cage of the player to the same earth point as the amps and the player? If not, and by earthing it the sound goes away, then you have got an earthing problem with your empeg, probably not grounded at the same spot as your amps, and without a sufficiently good ground (paint not scraped away?).

Thirdly, what gauge wire are you using for the earth wire? (This should be EXCESSIVELY large).

Fourth - are you sure you have connected the "Memory" feed from your car to the empeg harness permanent power feed, and not switched it with the ignition sense?

I am not always sure that people describe the noises they hear properly - does the noise you are hearing rise or fall with engine speed, or is it constant? Does it disappear if you stop the car and turn the engine off? Is it high-pitched, or low-pitched? Are there any other noises you can hear, say when you press the brakes/turn on the wipers/turn on the rear heater element/etc.? This would give symptoms of poor suppression in your installation, so it might be worth finding power filters for your amps.

"Get another deck"?

Eh? Sell me your player if you haven't got the patience to finish the details off - you've obviously put in a significant amount of effort getting it installed, why give up when you are close to sorting it out?

If it's a Mk2 you may still have the Rolloff caps installed near the RCA connectors.

And if you want to know what Rob is talking about, follow and read the links I gave, it will get you to photos and instructions for the procedure.

Still having problems. Llast night I tried checked all the points on the docking connector and all seemed okay. I ran a direct line from the battery for power. Wire was 14 gauge which I think is thick enough for the empeg. It's a Rio Car, mk2a, purchased during the clearance sale so I don't think it has that cap.

The RCA cables I used are high quality Phoenix Gold cables and are shielded all the way around.

The noise is definetly alternator whine. The pitch gets higher when I step on the gas and totally goes away when I turn off my engine. If I turn the music up high enough, it gets drowned out, but when I have my girlfriend in the car and the volume is low, it's really annoying and I end up just turning it off.

I have a 1 Farad cap next to my amplifier, Do you think that adding a small cap to the power line of the empeg would help filter it out? I might pass by radio shack and pick up a little 1000uf cap and see if that does anything. I don't know what else to do.

I have a 1 Farad cap next to my amplifier

Another thing to do when diagnosing ground loops is to simplify the system. Does the noise go away when you disconnect that 1 farad capacitor?

You need an in-line inductor to filter power. A cap that big is a waste of money, unless you want to weld with it. Take it out.

You should have noise filtering on the amp. The amp and empeg should be grounded with fat, and I mean FAT, wire, to one place on the car. When I say earth, I mean you ensure that you scrape the contact metal on the bodywork until you see bright metal, then grease it with vaseline before bolting down your earths. The amp casing should also be grounded UNLESS YOU SEE EXPLICIT INTRUCTIONS TO THE CONTRARY in the manual.

The harness of the empeg includes a power filter and a fuse. This line is the permanent feed from the car, and remains powered at all times. If this is a high impedance circuit, you might be advised to connect this to the battery. You don't need large gauge wire. The ignition sense wire should still be connected to the 12V switched supply of the car.

Have you grounded the sled casing to the same earthing point as the amps/player?

If it still screams at you, then the rolloff cap fix might help.

Yeah, sounds like you've got enough parts, and knowledge (and therefore I assume experience) to know the dentist drill sound when you hear it. You sir have alternator whine.

It's fishy to me that only the empeg does it. Your work in the car may be for nothing... you've done the light switch test and it says the empeg has done something bad. Why aren't you looking further at that? I think assuming the empeg is working fine, after another head unit didn't have the problem, is well, not a good place to start.

If this was my car (and know that I'm impatient), I'd rip every piece out and put it on the bench. Hook everything up like it is now, but just outside of the car. I'd probably use one power and one ground wire and just T off of it in a bunch of spots for the components. Make it play music and check for whine. If it's still there, you're done for, I'd call the empeg or the amp broken. If it's gone, that's great news. Put each piece in one at a time until it comes back. The whole ordeal involves a lot of extra wire and cables though of course. Me, I've done enough installs I have it all on hand though. For you there's probably a better way, but it's what I'd do. Especially at this point where I've tried everything else, and some things twice and three times.

One thing I'd try before I pulled it out - make sure the components are all powered and grounded directly to the battery, make sure none of them is touching a piece of metal themselves (directly or with a mounting screw), and make sure all RCA cables are not running alongside anything metal or any other wires. It's almost always worked for me. I've discovered amps that weren't grounded internally but instead grounded through their RCA cables, ground wires attached to large metal objects (such as dash frames) that in turn were actually insulated from the rest of the car, and so on. It's amazing.

Whatever it is, it'll surprise you, and you haven't thought of it yet. Time for something radical!

is alternator whine the same as engine whine? My stereo is driving me nuts...it sounds like a dentists' drill and it raises and lowers pitch with the revving of the engine...

is alternator whine the same as engine whine?

You just gave a description of alternator whine, yes.

Keep in mind that the noise of alternator whine may come from the alternator, however the cause of the whine is a ground loop, not the alternator itself.

"I think assuming the empeg is working fine, after another head unit didn't have the problem, is well, not a good place to start."
Yeah, I don't see how anyone who knows electonics starts out with the assumption that it is the *device* that is screwed up, and not his wiring

Darwin,

I feel your pain as I have been plagued with this problem in my Miata for 2 years!

I rid myself of the whine by grouding the sled to a different ground point than the HU

But alas it came back

Then, I rerouted my ground wires to join at one place, which was the stock grounding poing for the original HU

Alas, the noise reappeared

I tried my Empeg in another car and there was no noise so I was sure that it wasnt the unit

However, I did get rid of the whine by pressing in the upper left hand corner of the HU in the sled with considerable force..the whine went away. It does reappear every now and then but i just put a bit of pressure on the unit and away it goes.

I dont know exactly what is happening when i press in, but obviously it is closing some open circuit the make this work right!

Keep plugging away and good luck!

But alas it came back.

This sounds like a bad connection more than anything else. I had eliminated my whine by getting a new amp (none of the tutorials suggested this, it was a last ditch effort. I replaced JUST the amp and it went away). But a week later it came back. Ends up that I had loosened one of my crimps near a grounding point for the empeg and that was the cause. So when a ground "comes back" without you changing anything, I'd seriously check for a loose connection or bad solder/crimp.

I will do that! Given the physical effort that it takes to remove the whine I surmise that it is one of the crimps on either the sled or the HU.

I wonder if thre is any way to test these connections?

If you do test, remember it doesn't need to be a "no ground" issue... it only needs to be less restrictive than the RCA as a ground path. With my RCA's unplugged, the "poorly" crimped ground worked. But once I re-connected the RCA's, the empeg chose them.

One sure-fire way of getting rid of the whine...

Remove the alternator. With the room under-hood gained by the alternator removal, you could put in a larger or perhaps additional battery.

I wouldn't recommend taking any long trips with this setup, and probably you shouldn't drive at night where use of the headlights is required.

But, no alternator whine. Just be sure to plug in the battery charger every night when you get home.



tanstaafl.

I wonder if you get alternator whine with the new prius Maybe you get motor whine or something.

Will alternator whine also cause a slight bit of static as well? I sometimes hear it, but not always....

Both are symptoms. The alternator whine in a symptom of a ground loop or some component grounding along a path it should not. The static is likely a loose connection. A loose connection could certainly cause a ground loop.