Posted by: schofiel
Power
Posted by: JBjorgen
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 16:17
Annoying BBS feature...the start of a poll is local to the poster. I can't vote till 8:13 pm ( it is now 1:17 EST).
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 16:23
Actually, my favorite are the new style of wall warts, like the plug-top adapter that some Rio Car owners got. It's a wall wart that doesn't cover up the other plugs. Best invention since the Tivo.
There's also this, which has been marketed to musicians for many years, but really should be going for the mainstream too.
There's also this, which has been marketed to musicians for many years, but really should be going for the mainstream too.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 19:36
Quote:
It's a wall wart that doesn't cover up the other plugs.
Unless your power strip has turned its outlets 90°.
Quote:
[Wall Wart Remover]
I guess I know which way you voted in the poll, then.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 19:37
How about putting a power supply in the damned devices, you lazy-ass engineers?
Posted by: matthew_k
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 19:43
Yeah, I think I'd have to go with power bricks, but not too many things these days come with them.
How dificult would a universal DC power supply system be? I'd sure like to have some sort of universal "DC Power Cent(er)/(re)" that had perhaps 12v and 5v rails that had a standard socket/cord sytem that multiple DC lovin' appliances could plug into? Are there serious disadvantages in forcing electronics to pick betwen 5 and 12 volts?
Matthew
How dificult would a universal DC power supply system be? I'd sure like to have some sort of universal "DC Power Cent(er)/(re)" that had perhaps 12v and 5v rails that had a standard socket/cord sytem that multiple DC lovin' appliances could plug into? Are there serious disadvantages in forcing electronics to pick betwen 5 and 12 volts?
Matthew
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 19:46
Quote:
How about putting a power supply in the damned devices, you lazy-ass engineers?
Some products I agree with this, others it makes a lot more sense to go outboard.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 20:07
There's something like that for guitar effets pedals, so it's certainly doable, but it'd make more sense to me to be able to have a variable setting for each output port. I don't think that size is too big a concern. I don't know why someone hasn't done something like that before.
Posted by: jimhogan
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 20:09
Quote:
Annoying BBS feature...the start of a poll is local to the poster. I can't vote till 8:13 pm ( it is now 1:17 EST).
Obviously Rob's hope is that all of his "Euro" pals will vote and those of us in lesser time zones in the West West will get discouraged by the exit polls and just decide "Screw it! Why bother? It won't make any difference anyway!"
Posted by: schofiel
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 20:32
Hang on - I posted this on the 14th (today) and I enabled immediate voting - yet it chose the timezone of the BBS and has even locked me out, dammit!!! 
Posted by: Ezekiel
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 20:36
Bitt,
Sadly, the power supply outside the device issue has much more to do with power regulations than engineers. If you had any idea how much crap you have to go through to get a device CE, CSA, UL, AU/NZ certified, you'd know why there are external power supplies. Getting these certs not only takes effort, it can take time, LOTS of it. Months if you company is too small to have a self-certifying lab. It can also cost tens of thousands of dollars. Essentially if you're making a device that uses AC power, you have to submit & test every device in every regulatory market. By using outside power supplies you just get the supply and go, as the supply manufacturer already has the certifications needed. Devices using power <42V DC (the low-voltage directive) do not need to go through this rigamoarole, so all your electronics will use these external power supplies until the day that a)regulations change or (more likely) b)hell freezes.
-Zeke
Sadly, the power supply outside the device issue has much more to do with power regulations than engineers. If you had any idea how much crap you have to go through to get a device CE, CSA, UL, AU/NZ certified, you'd know why there are external power supplies. Getting these certs not only takes effort, it can take time, LOTS of it. Months if you company is too small to have a self-certifying lab. It can also cost tens of thousands of dollars. Essentially if you're making a device that uses AC power, you have to submit & test every device in every regulatory market. By using outside power supplies you just get the supply and go, as the supply manufacturer already has the certifications needed. Devices using power <42V DC (the low-voltage directive) do not need to go through this rigamoarole, so all your electronics will use these external power supplies until the day that a)regulations change or (more likely) b)hell freezes.
-Zeke
Posted by: StigOE
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 20:36
Don't think so. At least, if that was what he wanted to do, then he failed...
Votes accepted from (15/02/2005 02:13)
Stig
Votes accepted from (15/02/2005 02:13)
Stig
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 14/02/2005 20:41
Oh. Good point. Someone needs to devlop a standard modular system, then. The engineers leave a hole with a standard connector of some sort and then ship a standardized-upon power adapter that fits in that hole.
Posted by: canuckInOR
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 05:11
I hate wall warts enough that, even though I don't know what a power brick is, I picked the first option -- can't be as bad as those damn wall warts.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 08:04
Quote:
How dificult would a universal DC power supply system be? I'd sure like to have some sort of universal "DC Power Cent(er)/(re)" that had perhaps 12v and 5v rails that had a standard socket/cord sytem that multiple DC lovin' appliances could plug into? Are there serious disadvantages in forcing electronics to pick betwen 5 and 12 volts?
Exactly. Power supplies for my phones, PDAs, cameras, radios and other miniaturised gadgets are often bulkier and almost always heavier than the devices they feed, and, needless to say, mutually incompatible. Solving this problem should be simply a matter of standardization.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 12:11
I have a little gizmo from Maplins in a spare slot in the back of my PC, which works brilliantly, doing away with bricks and plug tops, and is sufficient for my Empeg, Karma and 35mm slide and neg. scanner (Which cost exactly half the Amazon UK price from a little shop in Delft, last year). I would put a link, but I can't find one in the Maplin catalogue
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 12:30
Ah, so the things do exist! If you run into the link, please post it.
I have only seen 'universal' wall warts with switch selecting output voltage and a hedgehog-like cluster of plugs at the end of the cable: usually non-regulated, with inacurrate voltage, underpowered and all too easy to accidentally bump up the voltage, reverse the polarity or short the terminals - in one word, useless.
I have only seen 'universal' wall warts with switch selecting output voltage and a hedgehog-like cluster of plugs at the end of the cable: usually non-regulated, with inacurrate voltage, underpowered and all too easy to accidentally bump up the voltage, reverse the polarity or short the terminals - in one word, useless.
Posted by: andym
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 13:25
I know exactly what you mean and I saw it in Maplins yesterday, however I can't remember the cat number and I don't seem to be able to find the right combination of words to find it on their website.
Posted by: jimhogan
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 13:45
Quote:
I hate wall warts enough that, even though I don't know what a power brick is, I picked the first option
Exactly. And that's how I voted (now that Rob's conscience got the better of him and he opened voting up to North Americans!)
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 14:01
It's here as "Power (I/O)", about halfway down the page and 2/3 rds of the way across. For some reason, the "More Info" link is dead.
Posted by: andym
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 14:02
Ahh Godfrey, your search-fu is much stronger than mine. 
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 14:06
If you've worked with the filing system in my office, you'll have developed a razor sharp appreciation of the illogical!
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 14:36
Of course, if the US had adopted a sturdy three pin plug large enough for an astronaut to plug his razor in with certainty whilst weightless in space, none of this would be being discussed. The average UK plug top will house a family of four, transforming from 230 to 12v can be accommodated in one small corner of the available space: You just have 2 puny little pins.
I remember the days when they came in three different sizes and people also had the option of burning the house down by plugging the toaster in to the light fitting with a bayonet plug: Another fundamental difference between our two lands, we have bayonets, you have screw fittings (Although we seem to be wavering between the two, probably because of some European Community directive to stamp out unfair prejudice in light fittings).
Whilst I'm on the subject, who invented those wretched halogen lamps that flush mount in the ceiling: I spend my life balancing on a kitchen stool. The mains ones pop just as quickly as the 12v ones.
Yes, and those low consumption, long life bulbs: So they may be - except when you put them in an outside light fitting that requires borrowing the ladder of the neighbour you don't like and getting the wife to stand at the bottom screaming hysterically that she can't hold on much longer. Then it is absolutely mandatory having taken those risks that the bulb that you've bought from B & Q doesn't fit inside the glass globe. When you go back Tracey, or whatever her name is, won't budge on changing the bulb, if you don't have the receipt, although you've got the bag, packing and credit card slip.
And as for that high power light with the PIR over my neighbour's garage, is it fair, when I creep out surreptitiously with the boxers for a late night wee, dressed only in underpants, towelling dressing gown and Hunters, that I should be illuminated with 2000watts of power?
I remember the days when they came in three different sizes and people also had the option of burning the house down by plugging the toaster in to the light fitting with a bayonet plug: Another fundamental difference between our two lands, we have bayonets, you have screw fittings (Although we seem to be wavering between the two, probably because of some European Community directive to stamp out unfair prejudice in light fittings).
Whilst I'm on the subject, who invented those wretched halogen lamps that flush mount in the ceiling: I spend my life balancing on a kitchen stool. The mains ones pop just as quickly as the 12v ones.
Yes, and those low consumption, long life bulbs: So they may be - except when you put them in an outside light fitting that requires borrowing the ladder of the neighbour you don't like and getting the wife to stand at the bottom screaming hysterically that she can't hold on much longer. Then it is absolutely mandatory having taken those risks that the bulb that you've bought from B & Q doesn't fit inside the glass globe. When you go back Tracey, or whatever her name is, won't budge on changing the bulb, if you don't have the receipt, although you've got the bag, packing and credit card slip.
And as for that high power light with the PIR over my neighbour's garage, is it fair, when I creep out surreptitiously with the boxers for a late night wee, dressed only in underpants, towelling dressing gown and Hunters, that I should be illuminated with 2000watts of power?
Posted by: RobotCaleb
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 14:52
wouldnt it be easier to creep into your bathroom for a late night wee?
Posted by: Roger
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 15:06
with the boxers for a late night wee
Er, he means Boxer dogs, not boxer shorts.
I hope.
Er, he means Boxer dogs, not boxer shorts.
I hope.
Posted by: n6mod
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 15:31
Actually, for a lot of devices, there is an emerging standard for 5V power: USB
I have a Cig. lighter plug with a USB A connector on it, that I use variously to charge my cell phone, run my GPS, &c.
Conveniently, my laptop has standby power on USB when plugged into AC power, so I can just carry one power brick for the laptop, and use the 4 convenient charger outlets on the side.
And the original iPod (at least) did the same with 12V and Firewire, though that's less common.
-Z
I have a Cig. lighter plug with a USB A connector on it, that I use variously to charge my cell phone, run my GPS, &c.
Conveniently, my laptop has standby power on USB when plugged into AC power, so I can just carry one power brick for the laptop, and use the 4 convenient charger outlets on the side.
And the original iPod (at least) did the same with 12V and Firewire, though that's less common.
-Z
Posted by: robricc
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 15:34
Quote:
Actually, for a lot of devices, there is an emerging standard for 5V power: USB
You need this then.
Posted by: tman
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:05
Quote:
Actually, for a lot of devices, there is an emerging standard for 5V power: USB
Which is actually a really hideous hack since you're not supposed to draw power from the USB port without actually telling the host/hub how much you'll be drawing. A lot of the devices actually try to draw more than the 500mA that you're allowed on each port if it's self powered.
Posted by: tman
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:07
Quote:
How about putting a power supply in the damned devices, you lazy-ass engineers?
Putting a PSU into a device can potentially reduce it's life span as well since you're increasing the internal temperature. Also if the PSU packs up it's easier with an external PSU to get it fixed/replaced.
Posted by: tman
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:16
Quote:
Of course, if the US had adopted a sturdy three pin plug large enough for an astronaut to plug his razor in with certainty whilst weightless in space, none of this would be being discussed. The average UK plug top will house a family of four, transforming from 230 to 12v can be accommodated in one small corner of the available space: You just have 2 puny little pins.
The UK plug is vastly overengineered. It's nearly indestructible though and at a guess those solid brass pins can probably pass at least 40-50A. Good plug until you tread on an upturned one...
I don't mind wallwarts so long as they're the small SMPS style which don't overhang anything. I hate the old chunky linear ones you'd get on cheap equipment which were huge, heavy and inefficient. Usually if I get anything with one then I replace it with a small brick on a leash style one or a tiny wallwart.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:26
Actually, Godfrey does have a point. In the US, it's hard to find a wallwart that doesn't overhang at least one other outlet due to the relatively small size of our plugs. I imagine that it's less of a headache in the UK with those massive plugs you guys use.
Posted by: julf
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:27
Quote:
The UK plug is vastly overengineered. It's nearly indestructible though and at a guess those solid brass pins can probably pass at least 40-50A.
And just the metal that goes into them is probably worth a fiver... I also love the quaint tradition of eqipping every outlet with a rocker switch...
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:32
Quote:
Er, he means Boxer dogs, not boxer shorts
Now that has taught me something that I didn't know: Americans wear boxer shorts over underpants? Nothing like a bit of extra security I s'pose.
Posted by: Ezekiel
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:37
Aaah yes the BS 1363/A, officially rated at 13A/230V/50Hz.
The brief 75 pages of BS specifications may be found here.
Electrical regulations are fun no?
Best,
-Chris
The brief 75 pages of BS specifications may be found here.
Electrical regulations are fun no?
Best,
-Chris
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:40
Quote:
I also love the quaint tradition of eqipping every outlet with a rocker switch...
Ah now, be fair, every householder has the option of selotaping over the toggle switches on the sockets they don't want switched off. Actually both with and without are available, equally - but as they cost about the same, you might as well have the switches.
I once went to a demonstration by MK, where they got an elephant to stand on a plug and socket to demonstrate the strength. It was never made clear which jungles had installed a ring mains.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:50
In the US, boxer shorts would be considered a type of underpants.
Hard to tell if you're being glib here or not, though, so I'm taking the road of making myself look like an idiot.
Hard to tell if you're being glib here or not, though, so I'm taking the road of making myself look like an idiot.
Posted by: Roger
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:53
Quote:
I also love the quaint tradition of eqipping every outlet with a rocker switch...
What's quaint about that? It means you can turn things off without unplugging them. And, as stated elsewhere in this thread, UK plugs are a health hazard when left unplugged, with those titanic prongs...
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 16:55
Out of curiosity, what electrical devices do you have that don't have switches on them?
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 17:33
Quote:
In the US, boxer shorts would be considered a type of underpants
As indeed they are in the UK, but the important point to remember here is that boxer shorts are unsuitable for running for buses, where other types suit that purpose.
I'm happy for you to assume glib, and, hopefully amusing.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 17:36
I have to wonder how often you're running for buses in your underpants, and the percentage of those times that it occurs in a bad dream. Or maybe for you it's a good dream.
Posted by: peter
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 17:45
Quote:
Out of curiosity, what electrical devices do you have that don't have switches on them?
Car-player, Rio Receiver, Karma, Carbon... the only Rio product I can think of with a real mains power switch is the Rio Central. ATX PCs tend not to have power switches, too (though some do) and so having them plugged-in but switched-off at the wall when upgrading means the cases are still earthed.
Peter
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 17:57
Curses! Foiled again!
Posted by: n6mod
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 18:04
Quote:
Which is actually a really hideous hack since you're not supposed to draw power from the USB port without actually telling the host/hub how much you'll be drawing. A lot of the devices actually try to draw more than the 500mA that you're allowed on each port if it's self powered.
Only if the device you're plugging in doesn't have a USB slave. My phone and GPS have USB interfaces, so it's fine.
The ugly hacks are the lighter plugs and wall warts that just have a powered port with no other electronics.
Speaking of hacks, I have a bus-powered hub that works just fine as a power splitter in the car.
Posted by: tman
Re: Power - 15/02/2005 19:20
Quote:
Only if the device you're plugging in doesn't have a USB slave. My phone and GPS have USB interfaces, so it's fine.
Ah yeah. If it's a proper USB device then it's okay but there are loads of them that aren't. Fans, lights and mobile phone chargers come to mind.
Posted by: bootsy
Re: Power - 16/02/2005 04:27
I would love to see more "wall warts" like the one that came with my Linksys WET11.
The "wart" is fashoned like a wide plug, instead of the usual 90 degree, power strip hogging monstrosity. It works great, either on a power strip or a standard wall outlet.
The "wart" is fashoned like a wide plug, instead of the usual 90 degree, power strip hogging monstrosity. It works great, either on a power strip or a standard wall outlet.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Power - 16/02/2005 05:44
Quote:
I have to wonder how often you're running for buses in your underpants, and the percentage of those times that it occurs in a bad dream. Or maybe for you it's a good dream.
LOL! (and I was drinking coffee)
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 16/02/2005 07:08
The bus services round here are more of a nightmare than a bad or good dream, for us motorists.
In a good dream, I'm drifting along the Cote d'azur in the Citroen DS Decapotable, which I've finally acquired.
In a bad dream, I'm trying to cope with the expense of keeping it running with the rust and hydraulic problems.
In neither dream do buses or underpants occur!
In a good dream, I'm drifting along the Cote d'azur in the Citroen DS Decapotable, which I've finally acquired.
In a bad dream, I'm trying to cope with the expense of keeping it running with the rust and hydraulic problems.
In neither dream do buses or underpants occur!
Posted by: jimhogan
Re: Power - 16/02/2005 17:00
Quote:
In a good dream, I'm drifting along the Cote d'azur in the Citroen DS Decapotable, which I've finally acquired.
Need to know: Did you acquire the Citroen in the dream?
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 16/02/2005 17:18
Quote:
Did you acquire the Citroen in the dream?
It's the only way I'm ever going to acquire one!
I thought that I might quietly acquire my other "must have" icon as a retirement present to myself: A Revox Reel-to-Reel, until I discovered that a decently reconditioned one comes in at around $3,000 - 3,500
Posted by: julf
Re: Power - 16/02/2005 17:20
Quote:
I thought that I might quietly acquire my other "must have" icon as a retirement present to myself: A Revox Reel-to-Reel, until I discovered that a decently reconditioned one comes in at around $3,000 - 3,500
I have always been drooling for a B77, until I found out that they have stopped making tapes!
The only thing that would come close would be a Nagra...
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 16/02/2005 19:41
Quote:
I have always been drooling for a B77, until I found out that they have stopped making tapes!
Amazing how many 10 1/2 in. reels, sealed, knocking about on ebay, but one of the 2 places I asked about a B77 reckoned that they were still getting fresh supplies in 2,500ft reels.
A77's come in at about 1/2 the price and a couple of B77's have gone recently on ebay for around £2 - 300, but I didn't want to take the risk.
Posted by: Cris
Re: Power - 16/02/2005 20:16
Quote:
A Revox Reel-to-Reel...
Silly youthful question time:
What the hell would you want an old reel to reel tape machine for?
What would you do with it?
Cheers
Cris.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Power - 16/02/2005 20:58
Ah, B77 was my object of desire, too (in the times, some 20-25 years ago, when I was doing light and sound for several amateur theatre troupes). It was a standard fixture (usually two of them) in theatres we were performing in, but I was recording and preparing tapes on a contraption of Polish manufacture (a copy of an ancient Grundig or something). I still have somewhere multicoloured blank tape and cutting and splicing gadgets...
Several months ago I learned that a girl I knew very well in those times used to work in Studer recently (and probably could have bought some old but working Revox machines), but she got 'downsized' in the meantime....
As for the value of those machines: purely sentimental, of course, but isn't it enough?
Several months ago I learned that a girl I knew very well in those times used to work in Studer recently (and probably could have bought some old but working Revox machines), but she got 'downsized' in the meantime....
As for the value of those machines: purely sentimental, of course, but isn't it enough?
Posted by: andym
Re: Power - 16/02/2005 21:31
Quote:Quote:
A Revox Reel-to-Reel...
Silly youthful question time:
What the hell would you want an old reel to reel tape machine for?
Says the man with a pinball machine at home. Reel to reel machines are seriously cool. I had two mint A807s until recently, sold one and kept the best one for myself complete with trolley.
It's still my best recording medium at home. Plus with BBC moving to solid state digital recording there's tonnes of Zonal on 10.5 inch NAB spools going begging.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 17/02/2005 07:47
Quote:
What would you do with it?
Watch the spools go round with uncanny, silent, precisely engineered precision (Sorry for the tortology, I couldn't think of anything better!), instead of counting rabbits, in my dotage.
As I said to Andy, I could well take down an impressionist print and stick it on the wall instead, on the basis that it's a better art form!
Posted by: andym
Re: Power - 17/02/2005 10:36
Quote:
Watch the spools go round with uncanny, silent, precisely engineered precision
Couldn't have put it better myself. Nothing looks better than 10.5 inch spools at 15 IPS, except maybe 30 IPS.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 17/02/2005 20:38
Quote:
Couldn't have put it better myself. Nothing looks better than 10.5 inch spools at 15 IPS, except maybe 30 IPS.
Many years ago, Piccadilly Radio, erroneously thinking that I was a high roller in the media industry, showed me round the facilities, I pointed to an A77 and asked what it did, "oh, we have to keep a record of all our broadcasts, they said, we change that tape every 24 hours": Which says to me that it was recording a 10.5"LP tape at 15/32, or a triple play tape(Which was brittle, but available at the time) at 15/16 .
Philips had 4 speed recorders with the bottom speed at 15/16, has anybody seen a 15/32 or 16 Revox special for that purpose?
As a clue, they demonstrated a 1 7/8 4 track Dolby A77 against a 7.5 2 track to show how impressive the Dolby B system was at an audio show that I went to.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 17/02/2005 21:07
Quote:Because I always wanted something better than my 16th birthday present
What the hell would you want an old reel to reel tape machine for?
Posted by: andym
Re: Power - 17/02/2005 21:42
Most stations have used VHS machines on long play for recording their RoT logs for well over a decade now. It's only in the last few years that they've used computers to do it instead. Hallam FM were still using VHS and a Sony F1 last time I was there.
The 807s can be fiddled to do whatever speed you like as they're entirely servo controlled.
The 807s can be fiddled to do whatever speed you like as they're entirely servo controlled.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 18/02/2005 09:25
I suppose when you've got security video recorders that do 40 days, 24 hours or more was quite fast and low bitrate on a PC comes almost for free.
Posted by: David
Re: Power - 19/02/2005 12:08
This page briefly explains the one-of-a-kind UK electrical system. The site it comes from has all sorts of information about mains plugs, sockets and approvals around the world.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 19/02/2005 17:27
Oh, no, we're not going to be forced to have a Europlug if we vote for the constitution!
How come none of these plugs is like the outlet plug in the back of my Pioneer, Kenwood or Yamaha amps and Maplins don't stock whatever it is?
How come none of these plugs is like the outlet plug in the back of my Pioneer, Kenwood or Yamaha amps and Maplins don't stock whatever it is?
Posted by: julf
Re: Power - 20/02/2005 07:55
Quote:
Oh, no, we're not going to be forced to have a Europlug if we vote for the constitution!
Ah ja! All of yuuroop under One Plug!
Quote:
How come none of these plugs is like the outlet plug in the back of my Pioneer, Kenwood or Yamaha amps and Maplins don't stock whatever it is?
Because outlet plugs use the even more international IEC standard? 3-pole or 2-pole?]
Posted by: peter
Re: Power - 20/02/2005 14:17
Quote:Quote:
How come none of these plugs is like the outlet plug in the back of my Pioneer, Kenwood or Yamaha amps and Maplins don't stock whatever it is?
Because outlet plugs use the even more international IEC standard? 3-pole or 2-pole?
Boxer might be a bit old-skool, but I think you can credit him with knowing what an IEC connector looks like! If his Pioneer amp is like mine, the connector is a 2-blade plug superficially (but not sufficiently) like a US one, with a third, horizontal, plastic blade between them (not quite centred, so it can only go in one way round). When my Pioneer CD player broke, I just cannibalised its cable and put a trailing socket on the end -- not quite legit (no earthing) but good enough for a double-insulated Sony CD player.
Peter
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 20/02/2005 15:30
Quote:
the connector is a 2-blade plug superficially (but not sufficiently) like a US one, with a third, horizontal, plastic blade between them (not quite centred, so it can only go in one way round)
That's the b****r, I have one on the end of a 4 way distribution thingy from Radio Shack, 20 years back, but I could really do with getting the plug, or a plug on a lead.
I'll forgive the old skool jibe:(a) because if I was honest, it's true and (b) because you've just proved to the staff at Maplins, Farnells, RS and a couple of smaller retailers that It exists, and I'm not a loony!
Posted by: julf
Re: Power - 20/02/2005 15:30
Quote:
Boxer might be a bit old-skool, but I think you can credit him with knowing what an IEC connector looks like!
Well, I assumed he would, but as the 3-pin IEC or the 2-pin "8" are the most common appliance-end plugs, and were not on the web page, I had to make sure.
Quote:
If his Pioneer amp is like mine, the connector is a 2-blade plug superficially (but not sufficiently) like a US one, with a third, horizontal, plastic blade between them (not quite centred, so it can only go in one way round).
Great! Yet another non-standard!
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 20/02/2005 16:12
Quote:
Great! Yet another non-standard!
The more non-standard plugs, the harder to get the all conquering Europlug, up and running: I'm all for it!
Bulgin made this plug, but the nearest they have now is much the same with 3 pins.
Posted by: Cris
Re: Power - 20/02/2005 20:23
Quote:
the connector is a 2-blade plug superficially (but not sufficiently) like a US one, with a third, horizontal, plastic blade between them
Are you talking about one of these ???
I have these on the rear of my Kenwood Amp, no idea what they are for, but it has bugged me for ages
Cheers
Cris.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 20/02/2005 21:13
Yep, that's the little t*****s, they are to switch off whatever ancilliaries you have: Cassette Deck, Tuner, CD Player, Reel to Reel Tape Deck, Turntable etc., up to the designated wattage, when you switch the amp off: Saves wiring and effort. I just want to plug the wireless headphones in on mine, because it's the only item in my set up that isn't controlled by the remote control.
That is apart from the Digi-Tv on the PC: It's difficult to integrate items in to a home theater set up if they have toggle on/off switches, all my other stuff has hidden codes, so that you can programme macros on the remote .
That is apart from the Digi-Tv on the PC: It's difficult to integrate items in to a home theater set up if they have toggle on/off switches, all my other stuff has hidden codes, so that you can programme macros on the remote .
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 13:45
I'm informed by a hi-fi manufacturer, a client of mine, that they fit them on all models as a world policy, but manufacturers are banned from selling the plugs, They would have to fit a 3pin UK plug, or a Europlug to be legal. Which rathers makes me wonder, looping back to Julf, why they don't fit an IEC socket, which is used universally on PC's and ancilliaries?
And why, for that matter, don't they fit the 3 pin version of the same plug, which, for some reason, is acceptable?
And why, for that matter, don't they fit the 3 pin version of the same plug, which, for some reason, is acceptable?
Posted by: tman
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 14:15
Quote:
I'm informed by a hi-fi manufacturer, a client of mine, that they fit them on all models as a world policy, but manufacturers are banned from selling the plugs
I take it you can only get a plug when it's attached to a piece of equipment?
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 14:22
I'm not an electrician or an electrical engineer, but maybe there's some audio-quality reason that they don't want a separate ground, but instead need a polarized supply. Of course, that doesn't explain why they don't just provide a regular receptacle and do whatever needs to be done to "combine" the ground and neutral within the unit itself. Maybe that wouldn't be legal, either.
Posted by: tman
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 14:32
Don't see any audio reason not to provide a earth connection on the plug. If you really don't want it then you don't need to connect it.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 14:35
I agree, but, as I said, maybe that's illegal in some way.
Posted by: g_attrill
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 14:38
Quote:
I once went to a demonstration by MK, where they got an elephant to stand on a plug and socket to demonstrate the strength. It was never made clear which jungles had installed a ring mains.
My dad installed MK sockets all through our garage when fitting it out. They are the surface mount type but have brass sleeve things around the earth pin thats grips it so that you need near super-human strength to remove a plug from the damned thing. One of these days I swear I'm going to rip the cover off a plug.
It's unusual because the rest of the house is mostly MK and the sockets and switched feel very smooth and solid to use.
Gareth
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 15:34
Quote:
maybe there's some audio-quality reason that they don't want a separate ground, but instead need a polarized supply
I'll ask the same client to ask his technical bods. that question, and report back.
By the way, can you get those plugs (Have a look at Cris's post) in the US? Maybe somebody coming to the meet could smuggle me one in their luggage?
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 16:22
Nope. Never seen 'em before.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 16:29
Strange, isn't it, every manufacturer, or at least every Japanese one, seems to have them on their amps, and yet no-one seems able to use them. i wonder where it originates from, curiously, not Japan, as far as I can tell.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 16:53
I mean I've never seen even the receptacle. In the US, amplifiers tend to have standard US 125V, 15A 2-prong polarized receptacles (NEMA 1-15R).
Posted by: tman
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 17:00
I was flicking through my RS catalog and this looks like it to me but it has the earth pin. It's part 261-5828. Time for the hacksaw? 
(Note: If you electrocute yourself then it's not my fault! )
(Note: If you electrocute yourself then it's not my fault! )
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 17:50
Yep, Farnells have the same, with the advantage that they're a stone's throw from my office in Leeds, but at @£4.50 a knock,:which is fine, as long as I'm sure that it'll fit once I've taken the hacksaw to it.
I've emailed Yamaha's HQ this afternoon to pose the question: What's the point of putting this socket on all your gear if your customers are precluded from using it?
I've emailed Yamaha's HQ this afternoon to pose the question: What's the point of putting this socket on all your gear if your customers are precluded from using it?
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 18:22
Pardon me, but the emperor's invisible cloak just re-surfaced, and I thought that MK plugs were the height of opulence!
Posted by: Cris
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 18:34
I tell you what ! It was a bloody good job I didn't have a cup of tea in my hand at the exact moment when I saw the price of THAT !!! I would have been monitor shopping in the morning if I had
I'm sorry, but how can THE MAINS FLEX improve sound quality ???
Working for one of the UK's biggest telcos (or is that commco ?), and dealing with ADSL related customer complaints most of the time (just ask boxer ), I see people spending silly money on Belkin RJ11 leads trying to improve signal quality. I always chuckle under my breath, as if they knew the state of the network the ADSL had to go through before it reaches their socket, I think they would be more inclined to use a damp bit of string instead
A chain is only as strong as the weakest link !!!
Cheers
Cris.
I'm sorry, but how can THE MAINS FLEX improve sound quality ???
Working for one of the UK's biggest telcos (or is that commco ?), and dealing with ADSL related customer complaints most of the time (just ask boxer
), I see people spending silly money on Belkin RJ11 leads trying to improve signal quality. I always chuckle under my breath, as if they knew the state of the network the ADSL had to go through before it reaches their socket, I think they would be more inclined to use a damp bit of string instead A chain is only as strong as the weakest link !!!
Cheers
Cris.
Posted by: CrackersMcCheese
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 18:39
Remember though that some people own amplifiers that cost as much as your average car! With the right kind (read expensive) of setup the power cables will go some way to improving the quality (reducing 'noise') but as you say, its only as good as the weakest link. No use using that cable on a £300 hifi.
Posted by: peter
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 18:54
Quote:
Remember though that some people own amplifiers that cost as much as your average car! With the right kind (read expensive) of setup the power cables will go some way to improving the quality (reducing 'noise') but as you say, its only as good as the weakest link.
Even the cheapest modern amplifiers contain power supplies that reject mains hum to inaudible levels. Any amplifier whose sound changes if you change its power cable is defective and should be returned to the manufacturer.
Quote:
No use using that cable on a £300 hifi.
Agreed. And an expensive amplifier's power supply should be even better, and see even less benefit.
Peter
Posted by: CrackersMcCheese
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 19:08
Well either way I'm not buying it!
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 20:14
Quote:
Remember though that some people own amplifiers that cost as much as your average car!
Many years ago, I ended up, after the pub, in the house of a guy who had the most stupendous stereo ever, even nearly 40 years ago, it was in the thousands,and he had had triple glazing fitted to ensure that no noise got in.
But all the Lp's he had were purely to demonstrate the stereo: 1812 and I can't think what else, except I picked up Miles's Davis's Kinda Blue " Oh you're interested in modern jazz", I said: He ignored my remark and said: " I bought it, because it's meant to have the best channel separation of any recording" - he had no taste in music, at all!
What did you think, my girlfriend asked: " Seems OK as a guy, I said, but Leonard Bernstein listens to his music on a Philips portable, and if it's good enough for him, who are we to argue?"
We seemed to be obsessed in the '60's & '70's, with hum and how to cut it out, but it struck me some time back, that we're inputting and outputting sound from our PC's through, what we would have considered, crummy little 3.5mm jacks, and I can't remember ever thinking about or hearing obtrusive hum.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 22/02/2005 20:53
Yes, well, the turning point for personal computers was not so much electronics miniaturization as much as the advent of compact, quality, switching power supplies.
Posted by: julf
Re: Power - 23/02/2005 07:51
Quote:
Pardon me, but the emperor's invisible cloak just re-surfaced, and I thought that MK plugs were the height of opulence!
I think that's why there is the "BS" in "Mainstream BS Power Cord"
Posted by: andym
Re: Power - 23/02/2005 08:11
It looks like someone has reviewed it.
It's the 'As good as any mains cable I've heard' bit that cracks me up. I bet it sounds great at 50Hz.
Quote:
AVreview User Rating
Christopher Harnett
'Really good but the price is ridiculous'
Strengths:
Detailed. As good as any mains cable I've heard and only challenged by the new Nordost.
Weaknesses:
The price.
It's the 'As good as any mains cable I've heard' bit that cracks me up. I bet it sounds great at 50Hz.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 23/02/2005 10:08
Ah, I've found a source for those plugs (the ones from the back of the HiFi's), but at £9.05, I might have to make do with two matchsticks and bare wire!
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 23/02/2005 10:15
Quote:
It's the 'As good as any mains cable I've heard' bit that cracks me up
I've just crawled round the floor of the office, been slapped by one of the girls and have to say, it may be an off day, but not one of our mains leads seems to have anything to say!
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Power - 23/02/2005 13:28
The friendly folks at Bulgin tell me that it's a PX0782 and that the mating part is the PX0772. Neither of these seem to be listed in their catalog. Nor are those part numbers found in a Google search except for one obscure, useless PDF on Bulgin's site. They tell me that they're very soon to be obsoleted, too.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 25/02/2005 14:58
Well I'm now the proud possessor of "The Plug", regrettably, it's set me back $18, a monstrous price, but a small matter in the affairs of men. I regret to say that, even at this price, it sounds remarkably similar to any other piece of plastic, rubber and metal that I ever purchased and has totally failed to raise the quality of the dynamic audio experience!
Posted by: andym
Re: Power - 25/02/2005 16:57
Where did you get it from? I've got the same plugs on the back of my amp.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 25/02/2005 20:02
Charles Hyde & Sons. Ltd.,
T.A. Partspeed,
Part No: 42007
Sales Tel: 08709 90 94 74
T.A. Partspeed,
Part No: 42007
Sales Tel: 08709 90 94 74
Posted by: Cris
Re: Power - 25/02/2005 20:24
Thay are showing at £3.71 +vat on their website (out of stock). How come you had to pay so much ???
Cheers
Cris.
Cheers
Cris.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 25/02/2005 21:19
You might well ask, if you go through the Yamaha site, it comes up +3.99 handling + 1.35 v.a.t., I could have almost got my friends, nearby, to pick it up from the place.
I'd start a big argument, but after three months negotiating with solicitors and accountants and three weeks arguing with Comet* over my Sky+ box warranty, I'm all argued out. The magic day, hint, hint, is Tuesday: If you want to come by for 10 pints with Bushmills chasers tuesday night, you'll know where to find me!
Just a minute, If it costs £1.20 to have a pair of kippers* sent to me from the Isle of Man, each week, how can it cost £3.99 to have a plug sent to me from Pocklington, in the County I live in?
*If you ask, I'll start anothe thread!
I
I'd start a big argument, but after three months negotiating with solicitors and accountants and three weeks arguing with Comet* over my Sky+ box warranty, I'm all argued out. The magic day, hint, hint, is Tuesday: If you want to come by for 10 pints with Bushmills chasers tuesday night, you'll know where to find me!
Just a minute, If it costs £1.20 to have a pair of kippers* sent to me from the Isle of Man, each week, how can it cost £3.99 to have a plug sent to me from Pocklington, in the County I live in?
*If you ask, I'll start anothe thread!
I
Posted by: Roger
Re: Power - 25/02/2005 22:21
Quote:
*If you ask, I'll start anothe thread!
I'm asking.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 26/02/2005 10:53
Quote:
Kippers
For many years, my duty as CEO has been to walk to the Bank at about 11.30 Wednesday, Pay the week's cheques in, draw enough money for the week for me and petty cash, and conduct any other business.
Then, walk to Leeds market and buy a pair of Manx* kippers for breakfast, walk from the market to the Shabab Indian restaurant, taking advantage of the £4.99, as much as you can eat, buffet and 2 pints of Cobra, chat to the odd friend and business associate that knows that that's where to find me, and return to the Office for a snooze.
Impending retirement led me to 2 conclusions:
1. It's a cheap, not a particularly good restaurant, far better to go with the wife to the Rajput in Harrogate, trumpeted as one of the best, most innovative Indian restaurants in Britain.
2. I'm not going to drive the whole way to Leeds for 2 kippers, I tried Morrisons and Sainsbury's but they weren't up to scratch.
So, I googled, and found that for £1.20, a firm in the Isle of Man would send me a pair a week. All I have to do is email them any weekend I'm away, to hold.
* The Manx kipper is grey uncoloured, but immensely more tasty than the Loch Fyne or North East, Supermarket kipper, with the rust red colouring.
Posted by: peter
Re: Power - 26/02/2005 11:55
Quote:
So, I googled, and found that for £1.20, a firm in the Isle of Man would send me a pair a week.
In the post? I was flicking once through a guide to posting things, whilst in the queue at a post office, and it said something like "Special permission is required to send bacteriological or radiological material through the post, but fish cannot be posted under any circumstances."...
Peter
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 26/02/2005 12:28
Quote:
but fish cannot be posted under any circumstances
Well they never mentioned it, I was more worried that Jasper, our rescue dog, grabs all the mail as it comes through the letterbox.
They did say they can only ship to the mainland UK, maybe what you were reading referred to overseas.
Posted by: CrackersMcCheese
Re: Power - 26/02/2005 13:00
This wasn't live fish was it? Or overseas?
http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400044&mediaId=400251
"Fish, fruit, meat and other perishables: Items must clearly be marked PERISHABLE. Must be sent First Class as a minimum requirement"
Items Royal Mail won't send: http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400044&mediaId=400255
http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400044&mediaId=400251
"Fish, fruit, meat and other perishables: Items must clearly be marked PERISHABLE. Must be sent First Class as a minimum requirement"
Items Royal Mail won't send: http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=400044&mediaId=400255
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 26/02/2005 14:01
Only a fish with 9 lives would be live after the smoking process!
Thanks for the clarification, Philip!
Oh, that's tailess cats, not fish!
Thanks for the clarification, Philip!
Oh, that's tailess cats, not fish!
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 27/02/2005 07:59
Quote:
"Special permission is required to send bacteriological or radiological material through the post, but fish cannot be posted under any circumstances."...
Good grief, I've just realised the significance of that, Selafield is directly facing the IOM, I'd better check that they don't glow in the dark like self-seal envelopes!
So, I spend £9 0n a plug, after weeks of trying to find it, plug in the RF headphones, and discover that it's so long since I last used them that the batteries have leaked and corroded - Mallory alkalines at that, b******s!
Posted by: julf
Re: Power - 27/02/2005 09:01
Quote:
Selafield is directly facing the IOM, I'd better check that they don't glow in the dark like self-seal envelopes!
Is it double jeopardy if you post the radioactive kippers in self-seal envelopes?
Anyway, discussing Rajput and kippers with Wayne, my friend from Harrogate, he told me that there are some smoke houses not too far from them in Harrogate where they still do it the traditional way. Not sure if they sell from there though or just supply retailers
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 27/02/2005 09:20
Quote:
smoke houses not too far from them in Harrogate where they still do it the traditional way
One of those is run by an ex-employee of mine, I think that I've tried them all over the years, but somehow, the Manx kipper is just to my taste, although, at this time, I've only tried the ones from Leeds market, hopefully the posted ones will taste much the same.
I meant to try Ramus, which is the big seafood place in Harrogate, but I fear that they would be as overpriced as their other stuff, and it would still be more than £1.20 for the round trip.
What's Wayne's opinion of the Rajput?
Years ago, the Shabab had the leading restaurant in Harrogate. The owner approached me one day, as I'm in advertising, and asked if I'd like to re-do all their publicity material. This was fine, until it came to paying, when he suddenly became "unavailable".
After a couple of months, he walked in to my office with a suitcase, saying that he had just got off the plane from Bangla Desh, opened it, and paid me in used fivers, their must have been £30,000 in the case.
"Sorry to have mucked you about, he said, I'll explain it one day, I've told the manager in Harrogate - no bills", and we ate for free for a good eighteen months, until he sold the restaurant.
Posted by: julf
Re: Power - 27/02/2005 11:27
Quote:
What's Wayne's opinion of the Rajput?
He really likes it for socials, but think it's a bit noisy for a quiet dinner. He gets takeaway/delivery from there quite often.
Quote:
I'll explain it one day
Did you ever get an explanation?
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 27/02/2005 11:35
Never did, I never saw him again in person - probably a little knowledge would have been a dangerous thing!
Posted by: tman
Re: Power - 27/02/2005 13:12
Quote:
So, I googled, and found that for £1.20, a firm in the Isle of Man would send me a pair a week. All I have to do is email them any weekend I'm away, to hold.
Mmm... Haven't had a decent kipper in ages actually. There seem to be quite a few sites out there which will post you Manx kippers actually. Average price is about £5?
Some of them say they'll only ship to UK and other say they'll even do Europe so they're either flaunting the rules or a kipper is exempt?
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 27/02/2005 13:36
£2.40 + 1.20 at isleofmankippers.com
Posted by: julf
Re: Power - 27/02/2005 14:09
Quote:
Some of them say they'll only ship to UK and other say they'll even do Europe so they're either flaunting the rules or a kipper is exempt?
Isle of Man might have different postal regulations
Posted by: Derek
Re: Power - 20/03/2005 12:18
yeah, but unfortunately one-up-manship will require that some people use a gold plated piece of damp string, just to be better than the next guy.
Posted by: boxer
Re: Power - 06/04/2005 08:15
Quote:
Silly youthful question time:
What the hell would you want an old reel to reel tape machine for?
What would you do with it?
Whoa! I've got one off ebay and it's only in Newcastle! By Friday lunchtime, I'll be staring at it in adulation: who needs MP3's when you can have a B77!
It started at "Buy it now £295" and on the third re-post I got it at £137.99. It's got a documented recent service, but the low price is because it's a slow speed one (1 7/8 & 3 3/4)and I'm one of the few people that wants that, specifically for radio recordings, also it's missing the NAB hubs, but they aren't hard to source,
Posted by: andym
Re: Power - 06/04/2005 16:56
So you got it then ...and at a pretty good price too