Rio Car Announcement

sorry for cofusing you with Hugo in my yesterday's message

It happens all the time - we always have a chuckle when people confuse us for twin brothers.

Rob

It happens all the time - we always have a chuckle when people confuse us for twin brothers.

Those that have seen you two in person know better

/me ducks

Sheesh. I go to the UK for three days, come back, and everything's gone to hell.

Actually, I had a very strong sense this was coming. Tipoff?: the fleece. It told me that SonicBLUE's massive, ubiquitous advertising campaign just wasn't pushing headcount past the 3000 mark mentioned here. Even if SonicBLUE didn't stumble on a daily basis over things like eStore, the Empeg in its current incarnation would have continued to present a challenging business proposition, especially in the current economic recession that puts pressure on discretionary/luxury purchases. Multiply 3000 times, say, $1500 average, then multiply by modest end margin percent and you aren't talking about a very large pile of money. Most of the folks who were motivated to spend $1,000-$2,000 for Empeg's capability have already voted with their money -- "exhaustion of susceptibles" in epidemiologic terms. A tuner would have helped, but how much farther it would have helped Empeg penetrate into a consumer population that, on average, abhors complexity remains to be seen.

Dumbed-down, less complex OEM capability does seem to be the way to go. It would seem that there has to be some place for aftermarket applications, though. Otherwise, how to you get Empeg functionality in your Lear Jet? (or my distinctly un-Lear sailboat?)

When my Empeg dies 4-8 years from now, I suppose I'd like to replace it with something as capable as Empeg, but which has the storage (a la Phatnoise) in the trunk/boot, retains all of the display/control functionality of the current Empeg (but permanently installed in the dash), with some hack-ability, and software-based function/codec not tied to frightening media conglomerates (read: Sony and such). Will such a unit be there? I'm doubtful. Will I buy a 2nd "insurance" Empeg right now instead? (I don't know. Money/employment is tight.)

Funny, a few weekend ago I visited for the first time a friend's cabin about 2 hours east of Seattle. On the property he had another unique, capable EOL product -- a Cushman Trackster (try www.trackster.com). Not sure when this little 2-stroke tank went out of production, but there is a very active aftermarket still supporting these with spare parts, bogies, treads, etc. My friends are even planning to trailer theirs to Oregon for a 4-stroke Honda repower. Not sure how many of these were made, but it shows that EOL may not be, well, EOL. I'd venture to say, though, that there are probably 100 times as many as potential Trackster mechanics running about as there are Empeg mechanics. Hugo and Patrick, please eat healthy food and drive safely!

To everybody at Empeg, thanks, indeed, for all the fish.

Jim

Yeah the slashdot forum was disappointing. This whole Linux/open source movement isn't going to get anywhere when the techs are criticizing each other and refusing to think unconventionally. Just imagine how much progress would be made if everyone banded together on one or two Linux distributions instead of 10-20 or however many.

The Empeg Car appears to be truly ahead of its time and most people won't appreciate it for another year or so when big name brands start doing the same thing. I'm just happy to be able to enjoy this product for years while the rest of the people figure it out.

My worry now is that it will be stolen and I won't be able to replace it. My compliments to the Empeg team.. you guys are amazing.

-Hoagy.

What will make a product like this commercially viable is if it had an onboard CD player which could encode the MP3's directly from disk. If people didn't have to dock into their computer at all...just insert disk and its encoded and stored.. Then it would be dummified enough to sell to the masses. Oh...it has to be under $1000 too.

Anyway, I'll echo other questions about how hard in the future will it be for us to get replacement parts such as faceplates, handles, knobs, etc...?? From the sounds of it, it may be quite some time before anything even CLOSE to the MK2 comes out on the market from anybody again. That means I have to find a way to make my MK2 keep on ticking for a long time into the future.

I have to say...that I am very very dissapointed as well. after spending $2000 for a MK2, expecting many future updates, upgrades and at the very least ongoing support...it will be very sad when the day comes that it doesn't work any more or the faceplace is cracked and I can't replace it or some such thing...and nothing else remotely comparable to buy to replace it either.

See the Pioneer or Sony in-dash jukeboxes that are due next year. Neither is in the sub-$1000 market though, from what I've heard of pricing.

Hugo

What will make a product like this commercially viable is if it had an onboard CD player which could encode the MP3's directly from disk. If people didn't have to dock into their computer at all...just insert disk and its encoded and stored.. Then it would be dummified enough to sell to the masses. Oh...it has to be under $1000 too.

Like this?. It meets those demands in all ways except cost. People expect this to be magicially cheep for some reason. (I suffer this to an extent as well, as seen by my price range on a home jukebox.)

I guess once that comes out, thats our replacement. Hopefully the work being done with OEM's will evenually surface to the consumer market, so that way I don't have to buy a new car to get my next empeg.

One more thing. I do want to thank the guys at Empeg for being so supportive online and all that... But I have to say...I feel violated.

Empeg basically developed a beta product. Sold it to us at a quite high price. Used us as beta testers to develop their technology. Got ideas from us and integrated many of those ideas into their technology...and then sold their technology to the highest bidder, which in this case was Sonicblue. A company who does not care about supporting this particular product. They really only wanted the software to put into their other products. Basically we all got screwed folks.

I'll use my MK2 until the day it dies and I'll love every minute of it, but the fact remains....I feel totally screwed over by SonicBlue.

I can understand why the Empeg guys did it. Hell, I work for a startup company myself. We all want to be financially successful. Congradulations Rob and Hugo...you've made it. But we are getting screwed. Plain and simple.

Financially, it was an OK deal; not hugely brilliant. We did it because we felt very exposed as a small company, and we simply couldn't fund the manufacture - Steve, who co-founded the company with me and handled the financial side, was very white a lot of days from juggling payments. The options were to sell our souls to VCs and an uncertain (and uncontrollable) future, or get bought by someone in the same business.

We, the people who made the empeg still feel very strongly about keeping it supported, and will do what we can in terms of things like parts support into the future - but the situation would have been the same if a mk3 had come out.

The mk2 was never going to be made indefinitely; we still have plenty of mk1 spares though it hasn't been manufactured for a while (apart from sleds...!)

Wait until you use v2.0 and then tell me you feel "screwed over"; there's not a lot futher you can go with the same box and the same buttons, it fills the holes that people wanted filling. Do you feel used when Sony brings out a new TV that replaced the model you own?

Hugo

I don't feel screwed. OK, my first empeg was an MK2, but I have never really had a horrible problem with it. I also feel that the price is justified.

Now that it's all over, I feel honored to have been a part of the the greatest car stereo ever made. Not even anticipating 2.0 or VR, it will still be the greatest for a long time.

Empeg is/was revolutionary. Years after it's introduction there is still no product that can touch it. Furthermore, I believe there will never be anything as flexible or tweak-able... even products based on Empeg's software.

I would like to wish good luck to everyone at Empeg for moving on to bigger (not likely better) things. Serving a niche market (let's face it, empeg is not for everyone) is hard. The only thing that helped Empeg survive this long is it's sheer greatness. Thanks for making it!

-Rob
-----
12GB MK2 Blue 090000736 (6166 in the queue)

I might as well join in with a 'me too' posting here, since it seems to be the thing to do. I got my MK2 just over a year ago, I just recently added in the tuner, and I've got a 48GB IBM drive that I'll be installing this weekend, bringing me up to 60GB of storage.

The Slashdot crowd doesn't get it, and it's sad. Even though my daily commute is all of fifteen minutes each way, I'm still hooked on the empeg. I have over 3000 songs at my fingertips. Most of the time, I have it all playing at random, but when the mood strikes I'll flip it over to playing a specific album or a specific subgenre. I've got things extensively classified into subdirectories with all kinds of cross-linking to make this easier (e.g., I can play the 5-CD Ken Burns Jazz collection from one subdirectory, or I can go into my Louis Armstrong directory which includes links to the Armstrong tracks in the Ken Burns collection). These features are particularly wonderful when doing longer drives, such as the roughly four hour drive from Houston to Dallas.

Most of the time, my empeg stays out in the car, but I'll bring it inside once every few weeks to copy over the latest MP3s that I just ripped. I'll also take it out if I'm parking my car in what I'd consider a 'high risk' parking lot (such as the underground parking lot downtown where my old car stereo got stolen...).

Clearly, the number one problem here has been a failure of marketing. You look at the Slashdot weenies, and they don't get it. It shouldn't be incumbent on users like us to evangelize to them. It should have been the responsibility of SonicBlue. Did they take out banner ads on Slashdot? Did they take out full page adverts in car audio magazines? The initial sales were driven by word of mouth, but to expand outward you need to advertise.

A secondary failure is the product price. I had to take a deep gulp before typing my credit card number into the web site to buy the thing, despite my deep desire to have it. Yes, I know, empeg gives you fantastic bang for the buck, but many people are entirely willing to get less bang if it will cost them less. One possible solution would have been to make the empeg fixed in the dash and have some kind of pull-out hard drive like the IBM Microdrive. Sure, it's not nearly as fun as the current situation (1GB of Microdrive vs. up to 96GB of dual laptop hard drives), but I'll bet it's cheaper to manufacture.

Still, nobody's writing SonicBlue's obituary. The new OEM strategy looks like it could be a big winner. Certainly, TiVo has done quite well with other folks manufacturing their boxes for them. Given that SonicBlue's ReplayTV is manufactured by Matsushita (Panasonic), I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the empeg finds its way there as well.

We'll just have to see...

I counted six statements within your email which I believe to be totally inaccurate. In a number of those cases you couldn't possibly know the truth so you probably shouldn't comment on them really.

I'm rather confused that you love every minute of your player yet you feel totally screwed over. I have to say that I own a lot of products that I don't love for every minute I use them and on the whole I don't feel that I've been screwed over by them. If I loved a product I'd bought I'd be pretty damn happy all things considered.

Rob

I think the biggest issue that so many of us see is that we are not just seeing a product hitting end of life, we are seeing an entire market space going away. Nothing else in the market comes close to matching the features, or company behind the product. Had the Mk3 come out, an upgrade path would have existed when the Mk2 stopped meeting the needs of people for one reason or another.

I really hope I am able to enjoy the musical freedom the empeg gave me many years down the road, in one form or another.

And, much the EOL of the RioCar may bum people out, I'm much more bummed by the closing of BizTravel.com, my favorite online travel agent, which used to pay refunds if a plane was late or delayed. They were amazing, and they could often find much better routes to obscure cities even than the new sites like Orbitz.

*Sigh.* The economy needs to get back on track already...

for situations like these, i really feel that it would have been appropriate for you guys to install some sort of remote self destruction device in each empeg. when problems like these arise, you can simply melt the empeg down from cambridge. but then again, is it worth it to destroy one of the finest car stereos ever made? a tough decision.

rest assured that i, and certainly most of the empeg community do not feel that way. i knew that i was buying a beta product from a small company that had only been in existance for a short while. like others have said, i love every minute of using the empeg (except when my wife makes me listen to her playlist, but thats another story). i want to thank you guys for all your hard work and dedication to such a great product. it really has been a pleasure to own it. i am looking forward to using it for a long time to come, and also looking forward to what you guys can accomplish for the car audio word in general.

sincerely,
jeremy

12 gig, green...

I've been a fan of the empeg thing, since the original mp3man, it's allways been a great idea, way ahead of it's time.. I'm feeling the same way as he did.

#1: I love my empeg, I wait on the list patiently for a year while the mk1 turned into the mk2, and finaly arrived on my doorstep.

#2: I'm glad the software development will still continue, and I hope that the software will be released in the future with a modular design that will let users do some addon development.. (i'll put in time to write plugins, but not a whole car software)

#3: I'm dissapointed that the hardware thing was "a valuable addition to the sonic blue product line" and then neatly tossed asside when it wasn't perfectly profitable. I'm just glad that if demand arises in the future, the ease of the custom manufacturing of the thing could produce a lot of 1000 for sale. (anyone want to start a web petition on a lot by lot basis?)

#4: I have to say to all my friends that they can't get the empeg anymore.. that's the worst part.. I know people who would love to have it, but were just waiting for the $ to become available.

Hopefully in a year or two, the comonent costs will come down, the US/world economy will pickup again, and we will again have empeg's for sale. I think i'm going to take a chunck from my next paycheck to buy an extra sled, and a 2nd remote.

rob, hugo.. you done good.

12gig red mk2 -- 080000125

I wouldn't suggest that TiVo has done that well. They really haven't had much market penetration and they even have been advertising on TV. That market will definitely be there but who knows if TiVo can stay alive.

I think it's a mixture of climate and technical savy required to properly operate it. Despite Tony and everyone's efforts, the empeg remains for the geeks early adopters.

As to feeling taking advantage of, I can see where one feels like a tool of SonicBlue's.
Promised features were put on the back burner more than occasionally for secret projects under the premise that we, as consumers would be happy with what's coming.
It's like put up or shut up and SonicBlue has chosen the later. I put faith in the empeg team that 2.0 will come to fruittion and there may even be developments beyond that. I, being beyond warranty, just hate the thought of not being able to replace my unit even though I have insurance.

Times are tough and the tough need to get going and lean up a bit. SonicBlue owes nothing to the owners. We have a working product, some of the promised features have yet to appear, but you could've happily saved your money had you not been an early adopter or seen the potential to hack your car stereo as a really good thing.

What seems to mean the most to me is that there is not one single post from Tony Fabris in this thread. He, in my opinion, has the most cause to feel ripped off.
Guys at empeg and Tony, thanks for the great product. My life will not be the same when it stops working or gets lost/stolen.

Let's keep this community alive.

As usual I have to agree with Rob.

Yes, I suppose you could feel like you have been used as a beta tester pulling this thing out of context and distorting what really happend. But I am sorry if I have to burst a bubble here and let you in on a little public secret. That's how EVERY consumer product works, for the small to the big. Do you think Pioneer or Alpine or whatever other carbrand one day sat down and designed a fully featured headunit that would last for ever ? Hell no, they design something, sell it, learn from their mistakes, take that knowledge and improve upon it and sell you a new headunit at which the cycle repeats. The same holds true for just about any other product. Think of my all time favorite : Microsoft Windows.

Yes, you can debate on wether that is supposed to make you feel any better or not but truth be said, at least our Empeg will still get software updates and with that new features (I hope) for a while (hopefully a long while). In the end I don't like it either but it can't be helped. I totally agree that it is a major bummer, but I strongly disagree that I feel screwed over.

Cheers


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

What seems to mean the most to me is that there is not one single post from Tony Fabris in this thread. He, in my opinion, has the most cause to feel ripped off.

Heh, the reason I haven't been posting the last couple of days is simply a technical one. With the BBS getting slashdotted, I was literally unable to make any posts at all, even when I wanted to. There were several technical questions on the BBS that I haven't been able to answer, and now I don't know which ones they were.

To respond to your implication: I certainly don't feel ripped off at all. Just because SB isn't making any more car players doesn't make the existing players any less than what they are. They are still the best product of their kind, and I'm glad I own mine.

This will be my car stereo for many years to come. I know that official support will exist for the car players for as long as they've got warranties, and unofficial support will continue indefinitely, in the form of shared information here on the BBS or elsewhere on the internet. Even if there is a catastrophic failure of one of my units, I know that I'll be able to fix it even if it involves taking a soldering iron to it myself. And it would be worth it, too.

As far as the future is concerned: As I understand it, the Empeg team will continue to make great products for SonicBlue, using the same technologies that we've seen demonstrated in the car player. I know that 2.0 WILL happen, so there's no need to worry about that.

The only real remaining question is VR.

Well, if the OEM deals come to fruition, then I'll bet VR is still going to happen. My reasoning? I think that in-car VR is going to be the must-have gadget of the future. The OnStar system is a great example. More and more car makers will be offering those kinds of options, and those who don't have it will be left out in the cold.

And if Empeg does VR for a car manufacturer, they've gotta test it in the real world, right? Well, how better to test it than to give it to an existing user base? Personally, I think VR still has a high probability of happening.

___________
Tony Fabris

why are you supposed to feel ripped off ? are you secretly a major investor or something :-)

32Gig MK2 In 2001 VW Golf TDI

Online companies are getting tight about the address you supply, being the same as the one where your credit card bill is sent to. Too much fraud.

I routinely have high cost items sent to my parents home, one or the other is home most of the time.

The trick is to call your credit card customer service number and register a shipping address against your account. It works wonders to be able to tell the order desk that your preferred shipping address is registered with the card company.

claims that my billing address doesn't match my credit card's address

WOW bummer, yes I'm saddened & mad well a whole range of emotions coming home to read this. I'm kinda wondering why it wasn't in 'announcements' cat. but oh well to be put in 'general' cat. is an understatement. I for one don't feel cheated, as one poster commented we are all guinea pigs in a sense, my car still has bugs & TSB's and it's a potential hazard if something is wrong w/it. The empeg may have never seen the light of day had they never come forward w/ the unit publicly or had people give ideas, as I see it was pretty much done when it was created. I've been to the Slashdot site, admittedly while I've never heard of the site before now, voiced some of my opinions or should say gave my reasons for backing such a product & why it was worth it for me. I bought the base line product 12Gig (figuring I'd update the HDD when prices fell), I find it was still worth it to me even w/the acused high price. There was nothing like this out when I bought mine & won't be for quite awhile, though the package will be different I feel like Pioneers HDD CD player will be close. Barring any horendous accidents my empeg will be playing for quite some time, I would like to see the voice recognition to come out, I doo feel that this should be finished. While not necessarily promised or included I have read about it so much I want it & I feel it would've really push the capabilites very far.
I feel as another poster mentioned that Rio's portables aren't not what people really want it's just what the general public is being fed at the moment as what they should have. Unfortunately too few people realized the potential of this product to keep it going although I don't personally think SB gave it much of a chance at all, it's been what, 8-9 months? I know the customers are out there as human nature they were waiting for a sort of finalization of the product, afterall it didn't have even atuner yet, what did SB expect! When SB bought empeg, I imagined they would redesign the empeg making it less costly, using more mass produced manufacturing methods & buying power. Rather, it looks like, they thought it would be a quick bump in their sells pinned on a hopeful MP3 car in-dash craze that has been slow to develop. SB didn't really put much into the development that I saw, though I couldn't see much of what really went on. Personally I don't think it's a geek product just because it uses a computer & Linux it's the beginning of what the future will be like anyway as far as I'm concerned. I really believe that the right company could've sent the empeg through the roof. Get the manufacturing price down via mass production methods but keeping the same look & feel leaving just the software side to devlop new things & plugins to sell for more versatility.

Well here's to the future whatever it may bring, thanks guys for a piece of history that changed how I listened & accessed my music. I commend the developers for reaching the staus they have so far, their hard work is very apparent in their product & support of it, very rare. I don't see this as an end though & hope to see the evolution of it all.

#695-Mk2/8 colors-12Gig w/Tuner- awaits v2.x & Voice Recog.

I guess once that comes out, thats our replacement.

Not for me... I get at least as much satisfaction (if not more) from hacking my empeg as from it performing its primary function. The consensus seems to be that the empeg only happened due to some freaky accident and it'll be a cold day in hell before something similar happens again.

I'm also on the should-I-buy-a-spare fence but it's shaking uncontrollably and I'm not sure I can hold on for much longer.

Borislav

Borislav: "I'm also on the should-I-buy-a-spare fence but it's shaking uncontrollably and I'm not sure I can hold on for much longer."

OK, but the question is: Which way are you going to fall??

I, too, have been thinking about this all day. Money is tight, however. My conclusion? When SonicBLUE offers a discount of $100-$150 to existing Empeg (I'm glad I never got used to calling them Rio-Whatever) owners, then I'll buy an "insurance" unit. I figure that's more than they'll get from reseller/liquidator types, and a purchase price of $850 would make me feel better about making the leap given the uncertain, melancholy circumstances. Failing that, I'll just cross my fingers. The notion has some attraction. If I had a 2nd unit, I could just leave it on the boat during the warm, less humid (less corroding!) months.

Jim

I am shocked, and yet I fully understand that the rest of the world is not quite ready for the future.
:-|

THANKS for making a bit of Geek History and letting us share that with you.

THANKS for making the empeg real for all of us GEEKS out there !!!

Thanks for producing my epmeg




-- MK2, 36G, blue, 080000398 --

Online companies are getting tight about the address you supply, being the same as the one where your credit card bill is sent to. Too much fraud.

Yes, but it seems they (or authorization SW at the card issuer) do matching using some quite unforgiving algorithm. I have several purcheses denied because of this, although I am on my current address for the last 40 years and never used any other either for registering credit cards or as shipping address...

Dragi "Bonzi" Raos
Zagreb, Croatia
Q#5196, MkII#80000376, 18GB green

I was silent when my number came up
   because I did not have enough money
I was silent when the queue was abandoned
   because Empeg was producing from stock
I was silent when the Mk2 was released
   because I hadn't convinced my wife yet
I was silent when the empeg became the riocar
   because I thought it would become even more available

Now all I can do is *sob*

(with apologies)
David T-G
davidtg at justpickone dot org


:-D
--
David T-G

In my mind, the problem is always the same:

When a big compaany aquires a small company , everyone says it's good for the small company to be acquired.

But there is an example now, it is NOT.

Empeg built the MOST powerful, flexible, and amazin product for the next five years.

If they(Empeg team ) haven't been acquired by SB, their product will be still more expensive that now but Quality must be PAID.

You will never see a consumer product in which you could put your hands and make your software and get technical infos and tips.

I want to believe that they will do their best to continue what they are doing now but il will be different.

I am almost sure thazt in the Next monthes SB will sell a Empeg III (Ameliorate Empeg II) with a different name but with less flexibility than Empeg II.

They just xanted to acquire GOOD TECHNOLOGY after that .....


Even all that, EMPEG is still the Best Geek Team Ever Seen (as now :-) ) and we can trust them for future plans.

Conclusion :

It is better to stay as a small company with the serious you had than to be pushed by the Economic Rules.
Market Rules the World.

You are tied Now.

I'll Strike From the Grey

He's definitely a major investor in time and energy put into trying to make this product mainstream.
A lot of things may not have happened if it wasn't for Tony.

I don't personally feel slighted. I knew going in that this was the best ultra-geek toy in the world and with that comes certain things such as possible obsolescence, beta software or failure.
I was willing to except those drawbacks just to have one. I don't think to many owners would think twice about running what empeg calls "beta" software on their unit for the promise of being just that much cooler. I think they did an outstanding job of keeping the software stable.

I'm just examining the other point of view.
Plus, I know I'm not going to be able to fix my empeg if it breaks and hopefully the community will be here to offer some support in that regard, even if it requires shipping my unit around the world at my expense.

The thought of living with out it at any point in the future is a trembling thought. How could I readjust to the way I used to flop CDs around and mostly listen to the same 3-5 over and over again?

Scary.

Hmm,
If they were to offer a $150 discount to existing owners, it would definitely push me over the edge to getting another one. I am getting ready to order another sled, power supply, remote, and I would like a blue face plate...

Were they to offer the discount, it would be like getting an empeg for $600 for me, as I am already planning on dropping $200 on accessories anyways...

-Trevor

-----
Mk 2, Green 12GB, Tuner 080000349

A lot of things may not have happened if it wasn't for Tony.

Aw, shucks.

I don't think I did anything that wouldn't have been done by somebody else. I just enjoyed my little MP3 hobby and did what I could to help others.

There are a lot of other people on this BBS who are major contributors, too. They just don't post quite as much.

___________
Tony Fabris

...or have pagers linked to the board to be notified when a new post is made... Sorry, but that is way beyond anything I have seen before!!!

Paul G.
SN# 090000587 (96GB Smoke)

Edited by pgrzelak on 26/09/01 07:33 PM.

True. I've only got mine for a week, but I'm seriously considering buying a second one. Simply to put it on the shelf in case something might happen to the first one (be it theft, an accident, me dropping it or anything else that makes it stop working). I would also have everything in backup then (remote - probably the first thing to go, AC adapter and car bay)

I certainly don't feel screwed over by Empeg, I'm sure that if it could be any other way they would do it. I (and I'm sure many others with me) am just sad that something as wonderful as this has come to an end. Now the top of the bill mp3 product for the car will be the NEO. God forbid, I've been there and it does not even touch the Empeg's heels.

Riocar 10gig (for now) S/N : 10101747 amber

so basically if i don't buy a tuner in the next 2 months i am not going to be able to, is that what you are saying?

Hugo wins the sensitivity award. Rob...you lose!

I'm entitled to any opinion I want to have...and if I want to feel screwed over...I can feel screwed over. Only time will tell over the coming months/years how screwed over we/I are with this turn of events. As people's Empeg's start to break down...and they can't get them fixed...and they sit there looking at a $2000 piece of metal and plastic.....maybe their tunes will change dramatically. Or..maybe I'm wrong and there will turn out to be a way to keep our Empeg's running for a long long time. Only time will tell. But my experience says that kind of support will NOT exist. I for one, did not buy a $2000 car stereo that I intended to only use for a year or two.

I'm sure the guys in Cambridge are very proud of the MK1 and Mk2. Its a great unit. As I said before, I love mine (as long as it keeps working). However, regardless of whether you like to admit it or not...the fact is...you SOLD OUT. You sold your software to Rio and Rio promptly shelved this great product. You sold out man!

Rob...don't be defensive. Just prove me wrong in years to come.

cheers

No, tuners will be available until stock is exhausted; at that point, if there is demand we may be able to get another production run sorted out. The stock may last a lot longer than we expect (not all owners need or want a tuner).

BUT; if you have a need for a tuner, the best thing to do is to order one sooner rather than later.

Hugo

Looks like lots of people are venting their ire, feeling betrayed and generally pissed off and pissing on the folks at empeg/SB.

Not me. I was an early Mk1 owner, upgraded to the MkII when it came out and now I've just gone ahead and bought a MkIIa and some accessories. The folks at empeg created, built and sold a great product - the empeg/Rio Car.

The fact that SB bought the empeg team shows great insight an forethought. Rob, Hugo, Rodger and the others really believe in the product (which is really the software) and have been here from day-1 supporting the user community in an incredible fashion.

I for one trust that when we need them, Hugo and the others will be there still for this community. I've had three empeg's - I still own two. Now I'm about to add a "spare" Rio Car to my collection.

Say what you will - SB realizes the outstanding team that they got when they bought empeg. We are sure to see some interesting stuff come from that team in the times ahead. I know that everytime I use my empeg(s) that I'm grateful to Hugo for having the foresight to build such a wonderful product and make it available to people like me.

=-Clarke

______________________________________
Queue 351, Now Mk II #60000022 18gb, Blue

There are certain commercial realities that sometimes rule out the "stay as a small company" option.

Rob

Which is why they killed their primary product showcase?

That doesn't make any sense.

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Like the:

buy 'em and put 'em out of business
or
attempt to buy 'em, fail, and then put them out of business buy selling same product at a loss, until smaller company runs out of cash.

Microsoft are great examples of both approaches (which are valid business decisions).

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

More like the "oh dear, manufacturing stuff means you have hideous cashflow problems and if you don't get some money in somehow, you're going titsup.com".

Cashflow in a growing business is a huge challenge!

Hugo

Well I certainly didn't sell anything, having no stake or executive involvement in empeg.

Hugo and Steve made a commercial decision which was strongly influenced by dedication to the product and customers. You speak as though they became millionaires (*laughing old loud*). The other options available at the time would have resulted in the EOL announcement happening much sooner - the decision that was made was the best chance the product had.

In any case, the EOL of the product around this time has ALWAYS been on the cards - it's time for a new model. People here have been saying that for some time. The decision that has been made is that the new model will not be sold by SONICblue, we'll just stick to creating it.

Rob

I had an earlier post about little time SB spent w/the empeg as the webpage shows http://www.riohome.com/BuyOnline.htm it 'just arrived' and is already departing!

#695-Mk2/8 colors-12Gig w/Tuner- awaits v2.x & Voice Recog.

This is for Rob, Hugo, everyone else involved with the empeg past and present.

I take my hat off to you guys. You have created the most wonderful and practical MP3 product in existence. I was convinced that you'd created the Harrier Jump Jet of the MP3 world, so advanced that it would take some time [maybe years] to catch on.

It took much longer than you thought to do it, heck I joined the queue back in January 1999 [within 30 seconds from when I first saw the product on your website and when the Mark 1 was sort of being made] and wondered if I'd ever see any unit at all before the hundreds/ no thousands in the queue ahead of me [judging by the queue number I was assigned] got theirs - even allowing for a 50-80% drop out rate between joining the queue and leaving it.

There was nothing else like it, even by August 2000 when I finally ordered my units.

So, I bought 2 of the 12GB MK2 units - 1 for me & the 2nd one for my wifes car.

My wife was absolutely stoked when I showed her what I just spent several grand of my money on [in whatever currency you care to name] and about 3 times the UK Pound cost in New Zealand dollars - i.e. a lot of money.

Even though it was a surprise to her as she didn't know it was coming, she sure could see how cool/useful it was to have every CD in our collection in the car available on demand without limitations.

So, she was won over instantly and I hadn't even showed her the cool stuff in it like playlist management or other things not even considered by us mere mortals but which had been thought about and then implemented by Hugo and the others at Empeg in the software.

I was even more stoked than my wife when I found out the empegs worked better than I thought - unusual as that was for a near 'new' product.

One of the key reasons why I bought the empeg was due to its inherent design - using Linux as the base os makes sense, adding Ethernet, USB serial etc makes it easy to upgrade and connect to computers and other devices [like Sony Stalk controllers] and more importantly the whole design was upgradeable and designed to be hackable/extendable - either by yourself or by others.

The processor is very over specced for what the empeg does now, but that gives lots of head room for advanced functionality, be that GPS navigation, VR or whatever else someone else cares to think up. This has been borne out so far and will continue for some time yet I think.
We have had at least 3 software releases [1.01 and 1.02, 1.03] with 2.0 nearly here. I can't think of any device that has been improved simply by adding new software than the empeg has been in the short time I have owned it.

Now, as you can imagine, when putting lots of money down on any expensive toys you pays your money and takes your chance.

I have plenty of such things lying around my house from the last 10 years.

Heck I now have 2 Tivos as once I got the first one, it wasn't enough for me to have my own, so now we have his and her Empegs and his and her Tivos
I've spent at least as much on empegs thus far as I have on VCRs, TV's, Video Tapes, DVD players, DVDs. My CD collection cost nearly as much as empegs did over the years.
I own 3 working VCRs and have several older ones lying around the house.

When [and I say when, not if], Tivo goes bust/Chapter 11 etc, will I be complaining to Tivo about how I've been shafted as I own 2 of their devices? No way.

So now the Empeg has been EOL'd its a sad day, but its a case of the one door closing and many more doors opening...

If you were to ask me, imagine empeg had never been invented what sort of features would you like implemented in your next high-end car stereo system, and who should do it?

I would be hard pressed to think of a better team than Hugo & co to do the next generation of feature rich in-car products even if only as OEM products.

Yes they might not have Ethernet and Serial and other interfaces for cost and other reasons, but the software inside them will be excellent, with hooks and backdoors to allow others to be able to re-use them for other functions and features and/or have a UI that has been well thought out & researched, not just "market researched" by the marketing department.

I am more than willing to beta test any future products these guys produce [show me the NDAs, I'll sign] - and when what they make finally makes it to the outside world as a main stream product I will probably buy one to replace or augment my empegs - who by then will have had 2-3+ years of everyday use.

So, lets keep it all in perspective for a minute, would you prefer to have lived in a world where there never was a empeg and we still had CD juke boxes in the trunk?

Or even worse - a world where access to music you bought was only via a carefully controlled system of licenses and rental arrangements and you had to keep re-purchasing the same music every few years as formats change?

No way - I'd much rather it the way its turned out. Maybe things could have been even better but we'll never know how much better now and in any case nothing lasts forever, sooner or later the empegs would have stopped being made.

Its just happened sooner than later, but I'm very glad it did happen at all.


I'm awaiting my [just ordered] tuners and will consider buying a backup empeg in case one of my 2 gets stolen or damaged.

So I guess I'll have spent more money on these things than a lot of people who only bought 1 empeg which by some measures ought to give me a lot of reasons to complain/feel unhappy.

My real sadness is reserved for those who have not yet had a empeg experience, nor are likely to now. I have yet to meet anyone I've ever shown the empeg to who has not been immediately impressed with it. The price puts them off a little but if it was factory fitted in their car they wouldn't think twice about the cost - and maybe thats the reason for SB to have done what they did - make the product part of the original car and everyone can afford to have the empeg.

One day I hope these people may come close to what we have experienced with the future yet to be released products that Hugo and others are working on.

So, keep those new products coming guys - I look forward to them knowing that they will be worth it in the long run.

In the meantime, I have my empegs to use until then.

A fully loaded empeg in the car is better than hundreds of CDs in the house!

I guess I'll chime in with my "me too" comment.

I love my empeg.
It is the best thing I have ever bought.
I will enjoy it until the day it breaks / is stolen.

I can't feel screwed over. I bought a wonderful product. Very few products last forever in the same form. Sure, the Mini didn't change much for 40-something years, but that's rare.

We weren't guinea pigs. The only things that we were used for were for what we can see already: an amazing product revision (Mk2), and a hopefully very advanced software upgrade (provided we get it). You can also be sure that we'll get v2. I don't see why they'd go to the trouble to do the work and then not release it after several releases to the Alpha testers.

BE HAPPY!! ENJOY YOUR MUSIC!!

One last thing: recently I bought the credit card-sized Rex 6000 micro-pda. I love it. I bought it the day after I heard it was being discontinued. I realized that the product fit my life perfectly, and was the only solution for me. Now that I have it, I use it every day, all the time. It's my second favorite gadget (next to the empeg). Am I dissapointed that it will be damn hard to find another if this one breaks? yeah! but I'll enjoy it for now, and that's what matters.

I love my empeg.
I can't give all you Cambridge folks enough thanks for your marvelous product and support. We all appreciate the hard work you've put into this.

THANK YOU!!!


DiGNAN
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, etc.

Yeah. What he said.

___________
Tony Fabris

Undeniably, this is disappointing news; no doubt about it.

The Empeg, Ltd. staff members are a wonderful mix of people, and demonstrated the best customer support and service I've ever had the privilege to experience. No Exceptions. They are a group who definitely believed in, and stood behind, the product they sold.

The empeg-car was profitable, Hugo has said as much, however, it wasn't sufficiently profitable to keep. Sad, but true. Excellent, well made, products are hard to find, and, harder still, to keep. It is my hope that I'll be able to enjoy my empeg until that sad day when it finally dies.

For whatever it's worth, in my opinion, the news of the SB buyout of Empeg Ltd. marked the beginning of the end. It was the "Handwriting on the wall", so to speak. Although there were numerous assurances that it would be 'business as usual'; no one can deny, at the very least, the thought crossed their mind that this would be the end of the empeg-car. Think about it, we've seen it all too often; "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish". Even now, we see this going on with CD's themselves.

It's funny how you can think all these lofty things about 'voting with your dollars' (meaning, support those suppliers who provide the best product or service), and it doesn't seem to do any good.

... so let it be with empeg.

Dudeman42: "I'm entitled to any opinion I want to have...and if I want to feel screwed over...I can feel screwed over......you SOLD OUT. You sold your software to Rio......"

Dude,

You are indeed entitled to any opinion you want to have. Little green men trying to penetrate your tin-foil hat with their evil mind-control rays?? Hey, I'm down with that.

My opinion of Rio/SonicBLUE's eptness might just be as low as anybody's on this BBS, and my disappointment that the open-ended Empeg Mk2/3 will spawn no more is probably as great as anyone's, but I'd suggest that, before you stage a mini-WTO riot here, ....DO THE FRIGGIN MATH! Can you spell "cash flow"? Have your read Rob and Hugo's patient explanations of events as they unfolded over the past year? I guess I can understand your bitter feelings ....I just have to assume that your expectations are a notch different from mine and that you have perhaps been walking around with your eyes closed.

As seriously disappointed as I was by the EOL news, I have to say that I am still pleased to own an Empeg. Yeah, the future is uncertain, and I'm not sure I can afford a "spare", but I still want to thank Hugo, Rob, Steve et al for producing this marvel. I look forward to version 2.0. If circumstances dictate that I move *back* on to my sailboat to weather the current recession, it will be fantastically great to have all of my music available while my CD collection sits in dead storage. Yeah, I hope my Empeg doesn't break. Yeah, I hope Hugo will be there if it does. Yeah, only time will tell.

If you're still hopelessly pissed off to the point that you may never enjoy your Empeg ever again, I have a solution: Open it up, take out the severely depreciated commodity components (i.e. the hard drives) and send it to me. I will send you $600 via Paypal. Does this work? Would this help you move on?

Geeez, you think you got problems. Wanna help me find somebody to install the Empeg in my DeLorean????

Jim

Xavyer: "It's funny how you can think all these lofty things about 'voting with your dollars' (meaning, support those suppliers who provide the best product or service), and it doesn't seem to do any good."

Xavyer,

I'd agree with you that the acquisition by Rio/SB was the "beginning of the end" in some sense. I don't completely rule out the possibility, however, that Rio/SB may produce an OEM product in the future based on Empeg code that I may want to buy. I'm skeptical, but will keep my eyes open.

I also appreciate your point about supporting superior suppliers -- voting with our dollars. It's just unfortunate that the number of folks voting with dollars didn't manage to exceed 1000. I still feel in my gut that Rio/SB screwed the pooch when it came to promotion and advertising (to increase that 1000 to ???), but in a period of great economic difficulty for companies like SB (did they overextend like so many other companies?) I have a hard time judging.

Jim

yah empeg sold out you guys sux :-) I feel like I am reading a nofx (or insert what ever punk band you want) bbs or something it's a business for crying out loud

I have a dreamcast and about 20 games now sega stopped making that after about two years and are making games for sony and I don't even get an update (sega's a bunch of sell out's they sux too :-) ) (sorry the sell out thing was too much for me I need to stop reading this thread can't we go back to whining about 1.1 coming out)

32Gig MK2 In 2001 VW Golf TDI

In reply to:

---

For whatever it's worth, in my opinion, the news of the SB buyout of Empeg Ltd. marked the beginning of the end. It was the "Handwriting on the wall", so to speak

---

I had similar feelings. Even though it's pretty much accepted that Empeg would be dead if they hadn't been acquired by SOMEONE with some capital, I think there is some question as to whether SonicBlue was the best suitor. I'm not saying that any other company would have made an immediate earth-shaking profit on the Empeg MkII. But I think that maybe other companies would have had more patience with the product, and maybe let it go until a more marketable MkIII had come about.

My take on things goes like this... At some point before the SonicBlue acquisition, I remember either Hugo or Rob saying something along these lines... In the future, they didn't expect the Empeg to be their meal ticket. Instead, less featured and more "consumer friendly" car players would be their "money makers" and the Empeg would always be more of a "side project" that wouldn't make much money but wouldn't LOSE them money, so they'd be willing to keep it going. Well, the consumer friendly money-making model never had a chance to blossom.

Now we have been told the entire Empeg line is finished, and I put that squarely on the short-sightedness of the parent company. I am NOT a sales genius but I do know that the profits from the less extravagant model could have carried the Empeg as we know it "on its back." This is equivalent to how the Ford Mustang Cobra sells a lot of Mustang V6es (and even Tauruses and Escorts), and just as Johnny Walker Blue Label sells a lot of Johnny Walker Red. The high end model is what people lust after, and those who can't afford it will happily settle for the average model until they can.

Maybe if Empeg was acquired by Creative Labs, or Pioneer, or Aiwa things would have been different. (Yes, I'm just naming random companies with MP3 interests.) Maybe one of those companies would have had the patience to let the affordable less geeky model evolve, and maybe they would have given the Empeg people the freedom to keep the "flagship" model alive.

Instead, SonicBlue has decided that the "fringe" Empeg project is an unwanted nuisance in their efforts to turn the Empeg intellectual property into a moneymaker. I think every company has a right to make money, but I also think it would be great for a company's image to have a high-end model to put on the covers of magazines to get their name out. And THAT would lead to MORE profit on the middle and lower price points.

To summarize, I think killing the Empeg project is actually a POOR business decision, despite the trend away from aftermarket and towards OEM. I believe that the MkII could have driven up sales of more consumer friendly models. And I'm upset that SonicBlue wouldn't put a few more chips on the table to give that a chance.

All of that said, I love my Empeg, I greatly appreciate the time and effort put into it by the Empeg team, and I hope to see Empeg's software showing up in more gadgets in the future. I also am appreciative of SonicBlue at least taking a chance on a small company like Empeg. But next time, stay in the game for more than a year before you kill a flagship product.

-Tony
MkII #554

Hey Jim...go back and re-read both of my posts on this thread. I said both times that I love my Empeg (as long as it keeps working) and will continue to enjoy using it.. Even more when 2.0 comes out. That doesn't change my view of Rio for what they have done here...and to some extent the folks in Cambridge (sorry guys, but that's how I see it).

I'm sorry that you feel that you now feel a need to take personal cracks at my personality because I feel this way.

I really hope that in the coming months or next couple years that not too many will get burned with $2000 heaps of metal that can't be fixed because there's no support for it. I bought my Empeg about a year ago. I can't even remember what the warranty is(guessing a year), but I certainly had full expections to use it for at least 3-5 years....for the $2000 that it cost me. Any comparisons that people have made to computer games which are not supported on new platforms is a ridiculous comparison. They don't cost $2000 for starters.

After hearing some of Hugo's comments (not Rob's..he takes everything too personally and gets all upset over everything). After hearing Hugo's comments on this thread and a few others...I can see that he definitely wants to try as hard as he can to support us Empeg users for as long as he possibly can. For example...putting photos up of how to fix the Empeg ourselves when it breaks. This isn't exactly the same thing as being able to send my pioneer deck into a pioneer service center to get fixed, but at least its SOMETHING and I appreciate the fact that he cares to do that notwithstanding this news that Rio is going to discontinue the carplayer(which probably comes as a great dissappointment to the guys in Cambridge as well). The only acceptable response from those folks right now is "We never meant to 'screw you over' and we hope to make every effort to support you for as long as we can". This has essentially been Hugo's response. Rob's response has been more along the lines of "You don't have any idea what you're talking about so shut up". Wrong answer. All I want to know is that if and when my Empeg breaks 2 years after buying it...that I will be able to get it fixed. If I can't...then I am going to be one pissed off dude... And mark my words...this wil happen sooner or later to somebody somewhere...and after spending this kind of dough..you can rest assured they are going to be ticked off people.

You think someone who walks into CarToys today and buys a Rioplayer is going to be happy in 18 months from now if it doesn't work...and he can't get it fixed? Hello.... He's going to be ticked. You can't market a consumer product (and regardless of the geek factor...this has absolutely been marketed as a consumer product...for sale in car audio dealerships such as CarToys)....you can't market a consumer product for $1000-$2000 and expect your consumers to be anything less than completely pissed off when it breaks 2 years later and can't be fixed. That is simply wrong. If they put a big sign on all the marketing material and on the website that says "Buy a disposable car player today for only $999" then maybe that would be fair. But there is most definitely an unwritten (or perhaps it is written somewhere in some consumer protection document) that if you buy a product that doesn't imply "disposable"...that its not disposable and you should be able to continue using it for years to come. I'm not about to pursue something like this...so don't take it this way, but class action suits happen all the time over false advertising and other such craziness.

Believe me, I appreciate how cool the Mk2 is. I'm going to be one bummed out dude when it doesn't work anymore. But if I could go back in a time machine...I'm not at all sure whether I would have spent that kind of money if I knew that a year later they were going to pull the plug on being able to support it, get parts, fix it when it breaks, etc..

Say what you want about me...it makes no difference. But the Empeg WAS a great product. The business decisions that have occurred in the past year...not so great. Call it what you want. Call it "Selling out", "screwing us over", or less colorful and more politically correct ways of showing your dissappointment. The fact remains that over the next few months and few years....the guys in Cambridge will show their TRUE colors of how they will support those of us that bought this machine from them. I will wait and hope that I am not dissappointed. I hope that everything I am saying right now turns out to be completely unwarranted.

In the meantime... I will add that I'm glad that the software technology the Cambridge guys developed will end up in other future Rio products (though I may be boycotting Rio now anyway). Even if my Empeg becomes a $2000 paper weight...at least there should be some other cool products coming out with Empeg technology inside.. So good luck with that guys..

Bummer - been so busy working that I hadn't checked in for a while. Thank you Rob and Hugo. You guys rock. Hope we all stay in touch. If you guys are ever out in the Bay area again, look me up. I'll buy the beer.

- Jon

Try calling up microsoft and getting tech support for windows 3.0. Try finding replacement parts for a 20 yr old TV. Once a product stops being manufactured, support will only last for so long on that product. What did you expect? My examples aren't so good, but the principle is the same. Hugo has given repeated assurances that he will help us out in any way he can. Maybe a few extra fascias could be run before the tools get worn out and have to be thrown away. I think those are the only parts that can't be found and replaced.

I'm very sad that this excellent product will stop being made, but im sure the mk3 will live on in a future oem product that we may be interested in purchasing. I appreciate everyone answering my sometimes redundant and stupid questions over the last 2 years. This is the closest interaction between deveopers and users I have ever seen, I really felt like if someone had a good idea, the empeg guys would implement it if at all possible.

I hope the regulars on this board stay here, this is probably the most intelligent group of people I have ever interacted with!

To Rob, Hugo, and the rest of the Empeg team, thanks for all of your hard work! To Tony and Dionysus, great work on the faq! Hopefully it will be easier to browse on the new riocar.org site when its finished.

Sean

Not to beat a dead horse...but if I get 20 years of use out of my Empeg I will be ecstatic! Hell, if I get 5 years out of my Empeg I will be completely satisfied. Of course you can't expect a company to support a product for 20 years. But 1 year? 2 years? 3 years? Even 5 years...is completely appropriate.

Dude, I'm going to try to let this thread die a peaceful death. Was I taking "personal cracks at your personality"? I don't think so. For starters, it somehow seems that would be redundant. All I was saying is that when you boldly say "I'm entitled to any opinion I want to have", you are 1000 percent correct. It just doesn't mean that the opinion in question is well-reasoned.

SOLD OUT! SOLD OUT! Well, that seems like a pretty harsh, upper-case accusation on your part. I just don't see it. Try something like "They made the best decisions they could given market conditions". Hell, maybe they even made a big mistake. I know, YOU would have persevered and developed the product while living on bread and water whilst holed up in some rat-infested garret, eh? (You ARE developing an Empeg Mark 3 clone I'm told.) Alternatively, YOU would have sold the operation to the multimedia conglomerate that was GUARANTEED to develop Empeg iterations Mark 4, 5, and 6.

Don't get me wrong, man. I'm not exactly thrilled. OK, OK, I only spent $1400 or so, but that ain't chump change. OK, OK, so Hugo is perhaps a bit more sympathetic to your/our plight. Rob has fielded a million questions on this BBS with what I would consider accuracy, openess, and good grace. OK, so he didn't swab your brow with a damp cloth. He is, after all, British. What's all this "SOLD OUT" [censored], though??

I hope that both you and I enjoy our Empegs for many months to come. Failing that, if you find that you twist and turn every night and just can't get a good 8 hours of winkie, my buy-out offer still stands.

Jim

The decision that has been made is that the new model will not be sold by SONICblue, we'll just stick to creating it.

When the time comes, where a company announces said new model, how will we know our Empeg Heros had anything to do with it?

One would think they would be happy to tell us - in one way or another.

re: empeg as a 20year old piece of equipment.

By my count I own 123456789 (nine) computers, ten counting the Empeg. Twelve! I just have to count two palm pilots. They each easily out power the first four computers, combined. Eight of those I consider obsolete. Most were bought in the last ten years. I don't even want to tally the cost. All of them, except for the MicroAce still work like new. The Ace suffers from too much tinkering.

The Empeg may just, for the useful life span, be one of the least expensive gadgets I've bought.

I'm not feeling screwed. Not at all. Just sad, that the Empeg didn't sell big.

well i love my Empeg, and now hate SB, and now it's time to sell my SB stock!

Stephen

jimhogan: I don't completely rule out the possibility, however, that Rio/SB may produce an OEM product in the future based on Empeg code that I may want to buy. I'm skeptical, but will keep my eyes open.

Agreed. I'm skeptical, also; however, time will tell.

jimhogan: I still feel in my gut that Rio/SB screwed the pooch when it came to promotion and advertising (to increase that 1000 to ???), but in a period of great economic difficulty for companies like SB (did they overextend like so many other companies?) I have a hard time judging.

Agreed as well. I can honestly say I never saw an advertisement for the Rio-car. As for whether
or not SB overextended themselves; .... well .... what other conclusions are there? I don't know.

Wanna help me find somebody to install the Empeg in my DeLorean?

ROFL, that's a choice one!

Difference is, I don't think Hugo's ever been picked up on cocaine posession charges... has he?


___________
Tony Fabris

When the time comes, where a company announces said new model, how will we know our Empeg Heros had anything to do with it?

It's never been a secret in the past, no reason it should be a secret in the future.

Deal is, their software is written under modified versions of Linux. The portions of their code representing modified parts of the OS, such as the kernel, must be open-sourced. And their code has their names all over it. So even if we don't know about a given product during development, we will certainly know about it at release time because the source code will be released, too.

___________
Tony Fabris

yn0t_: Even though it's pretty much accepted that Empeg would be dead if they hadn't been acquired by SOMEONE with some capital,

Agreed. That seems self evident. I wondered, on occasion, if that 'exceptional customer support and service' went too far. Of course, this is 'water under the bridge', but it's something I wondered about at one time or another, and in the end, doesn't really matter, now.

You raise a good point in regards to 'flagship' models, etc. I think your point is valid, "Too often the decisions made are based solely on the short sighted bottom line". In our parents/grandparents day (depending, of course, on your age), companies were often run by the engineering visionaries; and these visionaries seem to have been usurped by the bean counters. Rhetorically, the notion begs the question, "What happened to the idea of providing a well made, well thought out product?" Looking around, these seem to be few and far between; and getting farther. Don't get me wrong here, a company MUST make a profit; that is not at issue. I'm questioning the wisdom of making ALL decisions according to the immediacy of 'The Bottom Line' for this financial quarter.

It seems to me that it is much more difficult to guide a corporate entity, successfully, through the murky waters of 'long term goals' than it is to do so through the (seemingly) easier 'short term goals'.

Hell, what do I know? I'm not a CEO.
So, I could be wrong, of course.

Sorry to hear that our howly cow is going dead.. :-(

However, now I can hope the empeg folks will concentrate more on a handheld HDD MP3 player - yuk!

All the best!

If he has, he didn't share any with the rest of us, that's for sure

Rob

It would probably be cobranded, but if not, don't forget that we can't release any Linux based product without releasing the kernel source along with it - I'm sure word will get out!

Rob

We'll meet on the third bench in the north east entrance to Hyde Park at 2 minutes past six on the third Sunday of each month. The password is "Wendy Filter".

Rob

There's a different group for portables at SONICblue. We're mostly involved with home and automotive products, and you'll be seeing some more of our stuff in the not too distant future. You (collective you, not you personally!) can decide then if we've totally abandoned our geek principles

Rob

He is, after all, British

Give me a few more years of working for American companies and I'm sure I'll pass for a native.

I already have my Outlook spell checker set to US English. Mike hates me.

Rob

Can you tell us What kind of NEW products ?

(Dont blame me , I am a French ....)

Nosferatu

I'll Strike From the Grey

When the time comes, where a company announces said new model, how will we know our Empeg Heros had anything to do with it?

If you can't tell, then it can't be that great a product...

Peter

In terms of promotion, Rio Car was taken to quite a lot of shows and other events, but you may be right in your observation that it wasn't widely advertised.

Most of the effort went into the area of Retail - we have a very dedicated retail manager at Rio who is a real enthusiast for the product and created a number of good relationships (Car Toys was the one that has been seen publically).

The current player isn't quite right for the wider market, which almost everyone acknowledges. Retail people want it to look a little different, and in fact have a tick list of changes that most people agree with (BBS users have wished for many of the same things). That means the current product needs to be updated - Mk.3 or whatever you want to call it. It doesn't mean taking away all the cool features, it means making them more friendly, and adding a lot more of them.

SB have a business goal to lead the markets that they address, which is something currently achieved with a number of other SB products. This needs a lot of focus, but the automotive aftermarket is just about sewn up by a number of long established brands with strong channel relationships. Nobody is going to come from outside the space and displace them, and most of them already have or are developing MP3 solutions. Is an empeg going to realistically compete with these players? Or would it stand a much better chance if it were developed _with_ a well known brand?

So now, as we stated, we're building OEM relationships. I'm very sad to see the EOL of the Mk.2 but let's hope that this is really the "Start of Life" for some even better products.

Rob

PS I'm not paid to say this stuff

Of course you can't expect a company to support a product for 20 years. But 1 year?

I think this is indeed the crux of the reason why this thread turned into a bit of an argument. If the Unofficial Announcement had said "All support and further development of the car-player software through both official and unofficial channels is ceasing immediately", then everyone would be entitled to feel [caps]SOLD OUT[/caps] -- including us at Empeg. But it said nothing of the sort: in fact, it said the opposite. That is not, $DEITY willing, the Empeg Way.

Peter

No, I'm going to keep you in suspense until the official announcement

Rob

Well, as I have continously said in every post on this thread...time will tell. I hope your'e right.

In reply to:

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No, I'm going to keep you in suspense until the official announcement

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Oh ok, good thing we all get one for free being the hardcore testers we are. Ahum.

hint hint hint ...

Cheers,
Hans


Mk2 - Blue & Red - 080000431

Maybe one of those companies would have had the patience to let the affordable less geeky model evolve,

Okay, I was going to stay out of this thread... but I have to put my two cents in.

People are suggesting that Sonic Blue tried their darndest, but sales just weren't good enough, so being smart business people they pulled the plug -- maybe sooner than they should have.

Bullshit.

In my whole life (a longer time than anybody else on this bbs, by the way) I have never seen such out and out incompetence, mismanagement, and general apathy as demonstrated by Sonic Blue, an organization that is supposed to be a major business on the cutting edge of technology.

Immediately after taking over empeg, what did they do? They closed down the internet store, the only place in the whole world that was selling empegs. It was literally months before it even became possible to buy an empeg, and lots of people wanted to do so. How hard would it have been to turn that website back on? How hard would it have been to get their own website working? Hugo and the guys@empeg managed to get their web store up and working with a staff of less than a dozen people, at the same time developing software and two versions of the hardware. Sonic Blue with a staff of thousands (well, I don't really know, maybe it's just hundreds?) couldn't manage it even given months to do it.

Then, when they (finally) did get some semblance of a store working, they ran it with such a cavalier attitude and such a lack of care or expertise that the typical experience was amazement that they were (a) actually able to contact someone and place an order, and (b) the order arrived with the only problems being it was late and the wrong items were shipped.

Surely Digital River's incompetence was so gross that there must have been a few clues about their abilities before Sonic Blue hired them. How long do you think Crutchfield or Amazon would stay in business if they ran their operation like that?

It was clearly Sonic Blue's intent to buy the empeg development team, and not the empeg car player, and that's what they did. But I have to say that I would be nervous if I were a Sonic Blue employee. Their lack of management expertise borders on the criminal, and that can't bode well for the long-term prospects of the company.

tanstaafl.



"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

Exactly!
And SB wonders why the sales sucked.
How the F#$k do you expect to sell a product thats not avaliable? it's no wonder the sales were down.

Plus what ever happend to the concept of "SB will be able to mass produce the Empeg and lower costs"
you know if they spent just a tad more time figuring out how to advertise, set up a friggin web page and reduce the cost of the units - there is no question that they would sell like mad.
I have never seen a single RIOCar ad from SB anywhere... Just those dumbass punks with headphones looking stupid at you and the logo "I'm listening" at the bottom of the screen.
So lets sum this up........
No advertising + high price + no site to buy units = Dead product.

I will gleefully sell my SB stocks now and take the loss in order to aid in sending them my personal message.
SB = Complete Dumbasses!!!!!!!!!!!!

12Gb MKII 080000516 Blue