Lower prices on ReplayTV 4500

Seems like a good (better) deal. $349.99 for the 40GB model. ($250 activation fee required)
http://www.replaytv.com/video/replaytv/lower_pricing.asp

At this price, it's only $50 cheaper than TiVo with lifetime sub. The added features of the Replay are of questionable value. TiVo has been hinting that a future software release will allow sharing shows between networked TiVos (not over the internet).

I could have sworn I saw you touting the ReplayTV here before (something to the extent that you'd be using one if not for TiVo's DirecTV integration), and now you say that the ReplayTV's additional features are of ``questionable value''. What's the deal? Or am I misinterpreting or misremembering something?

If not for the Directv integration, I think there is a very real possibility I would choose Replay.

I do like the idea of commercial skip, show sharing, and show streaming. However, two of these features are probably going to go away leaving show streaming the only feature you can't do on Tivo. That's why the value of the features is questionable. It is likely they won't be there in the future. See this from the link above:

SONICblue reserves the right to automatically change, add or delete functionality when your ReplayTV connects to the ReplayTV server or at any other time with or without notice.

Factor in Tivo's larger user base and I think Tivo (stand alone) would still get my money in hopes that show streaming will be implemented in the future.

SONICblue reserves the right...

From http://www.tivo.com/support/pvr_serv_agreement.asp?frames=yes

TiVo may, at its discretion, from time to time change, add or remove features (emphasis mine) of the TiVo Service or change the terms and conditions of this agreement. Such changes shall be effective upon notification by TiVo. You are responsible for viewing any new terms and if you are dissatisfied with any such changes to the TiVo Service or this agreement, you may immediately cancel your subscription as provided in the "Termination of Service" paragraph below. TiVo also reserves the right to discontinue the TiVo Service altogether at any time in its discretion.

Apart from the fact that TiVo says they'll give notice, I don't see any difference between the two...

I'm just saying that if the television industry has it's way, the features Replay has over Tivo will be gone. I am not trying to make this a Tivo vs Replay thread. We've already had enough of those.

Just pointing out that the feaures you have on Replay today, will probably be gone soon. Period.

I have a question, could someone please explain to me, in very simple ways, exactly how ReplayTV skips commercials? How do it know?

I wondered if that might be what you meant, but your comment harked back to when Slashdot first started bitching about those T's & C's, without noticing that TiVo had had the same for months. Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, I don't know (currently) what part of Tivo could even be considered a "feature." The only things that I would consider a feature is the TiVolution Magazine, Showcases, and "Yellow-star ads." I could live without all of these. In fact, I don't think I've seen the Tivolution mag in a while.

Hopefully those Terms and Conditions will be used soon to add some features!

From a FAQ page I don't know if it pertains to the 4500, though.

"3. Can ReplayTV automatically skip commercials?
No. You have to use the QuickSkip button to skip them. QuickSkip skips ahead 30 seconds instantly. Believe me, you really won?t mind
that much. Also, beginning with version 3.0, you can enter a number and then QuickSkip to skip ahead that many minutes. For instance, 2
+ QuickSkip will skip over a 2-minute commercial break automatically. You can also use this method with Instant Replay to go backward
that number of minutes."

DirecTiVos have a backdoor that will do a 30 second skip, but then you lose the function to jump to a 15 minute index if you enable it. I use the 30 second skip all the time...

Replay 4000 and 4500 skips commercials automatically. I don't know how it does it, but it is not a 30 second skip and requires no user input.

That FAQ is for the 2000 and 3000 model Replays.

Actual 4000 Replay FAQ

You can turn it on or off by show or as a global preference. I haven’t seen a commercial in months.

The way it works is patented by commercial advance not sonic blue. I think it works by monitoring differences in audio compression levels and black frames. The commercials are recorded with the program, but a index is also made.

When the show is played back the software looks for patterns and automatically skips the section that has the traditional characteristic of a commercial block.

I think it works by monitoring differences in audio compression levels and black frames.

If that's true, that's pretty ironic and very funny. The very thing advertisers do that makes me desperately want to skip commercials, the increased apparent volume level, comes back to bite them in the ass.

I thought it must be automatic, otherwise there wouldn't be much of an advantage over Tivo there, either.

SA TiVos do it too, it doesn't require backdoors (push Select, Play, Select, 3, 0, Select while playing something), and in 3.0 you can still do skip-to-tick by pushing the ->| button whilst fast-forwarding or rewinding.

Hate to point it out, but that's what my link was linking to

I have a 4504. It's automatic. Don't know how it does it but the units come shipped with it turned off. It does work though.

Not a big deal to turn it on or off either. There is a button on the remote to toggle it. Commercial Advance works REALLY well for almost every show and has made watching live TV intolerable anymore.

Sometimes with dark shows like enterprise or x-files it gets confused (false positives). I watch that show with it off, when a commercial comes on I click it on. The replay then automatically skips to the end of the commercials and I turn it back off.

and in 3.0 you can still do skip-to-tick by pushing the ->| button whilst fast-forwarding or rewinding.

Cool! Thanks! Now I just have to get 3.0 dl'ed to me...

Does anyone know if the hard drives are upgradable? The FAQ says no. Can it be done though?

Calvin

Upgrade kits are sold here, so it must be doable.

here's an upgrade FAQ

SWEET once i get my next pay check im getting a replay tv, wanna trade some movies and shows rob?

Well, I would, but there are two problems:

1. I am a TiVo man
2. My upload speed is only 128k. Surely, You could wait for the rerun before the show is done transferring.

I am a TiVo man

Yes! Another one to add to the fold! Welcome!

Soon I hope to get my turbonet into my Tivo, due to the whole not having a phone jack nearby situation. I might try some of the hacking they talk about (telnet and FTP). It would be cool if I could download some of those recordings onto my computer and share them on my network

I've been a TiVo man for quite some time now. Where have you been?

I have two DirecTiVos. I have one Sony SAT-T60 upgraded to 80GB, caller ID, and Turbonet. I also have one Philips DSR6000 that is a virgin.

IIRC - You have a standalone. TivoApp is what you want if you want to download shows.

I've done it. And then, a few days after getting things set up like I wanted, they downloaded 3.0 on me and it all got erased. I can verify that stock 3.0 works just fine with the TurboNet for just doing daily calls, though, as my phone line went out back there for a few days, and I switched it over. Worked just fine.

I was planning on downloading the shows to record onto VCD instead of VHS, but it turns out my ancient (but free) CD-R won't do XA-Mode2, which is required for VCDs. Plus, my computer's quite slow and I was having a hard time converting from TiVo MPEGs to VCD-compatible MPEGs. Supposedly, however, you can change one of the recording modes to record directly to a VCD-compatible format, but I wanted to edit commericals out anyway. I suppose I should get back to that before the new season starts, or I'll be running out of TiVo space real quickly.

But I digress.

Haha, I have no idea where I've been Good lord, I've been so absent-minded lately. Well, I've had some medical difficulties today, and I'm on some heavy stuff, so give me some slack this time, okay

By the way, I couldn't really get a straight answer on the Tivo message board on whether this will all work with my setup. I have a LAN setup in my house. all the outlets run back to a closet to a patch block, to a hub, to a "web server" running ICS, to the cable modem and out.

Now, do you think that all I'll have to do to simply connect to the Tivo service via broadband would be to install the card physically and change the dialing prefix? Or will there be a problem somewhere in the line?

That's all I had to do. I keep meaning to snoop the network traffic, but I never do.

Of course, you'll have to have a DHCP server so that the TiVo can get an address, but you've probably already got one.

I don't know how ICS works with regard to network properties. Basically, all you specify is the IP the Tivo should have, your gateway's IP, and your subnet mask. I don't recall setting the DNS servers. Perhaps it gets that through DHCP?

EDIT - Forgot you have 3.0. DirecTiVo doesn't have 3.0 yet. Settings are manual and different. don't pay attention to this post.

Sorry to say, amidst all the other things I'm not so good at, it's network stuff. I don't know this DHCP and DNS and gateway stuff.

Just to revive a thread that I haven't paid enough attention to and don't quite know much about...

Could somebody explain to me in simple terms what the differences would be in these two units for a new DirecTV subscriber? Do both units works, or is one better for that than the other? I should be able to record multiple shows while I'm away, on multiple channels and have the DVR do the tuning (or controlling the receiver I have), right?

TIA

If you want to record 2 shows at one time off DirecTV, you can only do that with a DirecTiVo or Microsoft UltimateTV. Replay (like stand-alone TiVo) only has one tuner, so only one show can be recorded at a time.

DirecTiVo and UltimateTV save the DirecTV data streem to the hard drive instead of encoding the signal itself. Because of this, there is no picture degradation. BestBuy locations are selling Ultimate for $49. DirecTiVo is currently being redesigned and will not be back on the market until Thanksgiving as DirecTiVo Series II. Series I units are still available some places, but I would wait for Series II.

I should clarify..I'm actually just making sure whatever unit will be able to record off of two different channels..but not necessarily at the same time..without me having to intervene between the two. I'm looking at DVRs b/c my VCR comes after my DirecTV receiver in the loop, and can only record the channel that my receiver is on at that moment. I'm wishing for something that I can program for multiple channels while I'm gone.

Two shows at the *same* time would be a really nice feature, but not a dealmaker/breaker for me.

Can anyone tell me how the Replay models (4000,4500) fit in with this, and compare to the DirecTiVo and UltimateTV? I'm assuming they'll work with DirecTV as well.

yes, all PVRs will do this. The replay can change the channel on the DirecTV receiver by either IR or serial communications if supported by your receiver. Here's a pic of the back of the replay:


The IR Blaster port connects to IR diodes that you can place in front of your receiver. The serial port can connect directly to your DirecTV receiver.

Do the others work the same way? I get the impression that they come before the receiver (straight from dish) and capture the raw data stream. So..you wouldn't have to change the channel on the receiver..the PVR would do the tuning...or am I incorrect here?

I'm really a newbie at this, so forgive the newbie questions. I just recently had DirecTV installed.

What other considerations should I make when selecting the unit to get? Aside from the dual tuners / dual recording thing and picture quality degradation thing...is there much of a difference in functionality?

DirecTiVo and UltimateTV units have DirecTV receivers built in. Yes, the datastream is saved directly. There is no MPEG encoder on these units. Only the decoder.

I would urge you to get an integrated solution like directivo. The picture quality will be better, it can save audio in Dolby Digital, and dual tuners is important. I used to only have one tuner on my directivo. As good as Tivo is, dual tuner Tivo is that much better.