VISA sucks

So, while I'm over here in the US, I figured that I'd avail myself of a
shiny new Sony notebook. It's the SRX87 in the US, which is the rough
equivalent of the SRX51 in the UK -- tres cute - really small, built-in
802.11 wireless etc.

Apparently these things are rarer than hen's teeth -- I've been dragging the
guys to every computer store between Seattle and San Jose in search of one.
Everybody seems to have one in stock, but it always turns out to be the
display model.

This morning, I rang CompUSA in Santa Clara, and to my delight, they had 6
in stock. Unfortunately, they _still_ have 6 in stock :-(

We drove over there this evening and I attempted to buy one. Unfortunately,
I left my passport in the hotel, so I used my UK photo drivers license.
This has allowed me on planes, post-9/11, so I guess it's good enough for
the FAA.

Unfortunately, it's not good enough for CompUSA and VISA, because after the
manager spent 30 (thirty) minutes on the phone, they declined my card.

Bummer.

That's not all, though. They also asked the retailer to _hold_ _my_ _card_
and post it back to VISA. Considering that I'm just starting a two-week
holiday (g/f joins me tomorrow), this is a bit of an arse.

I took the phone from the manager, and gave the VISA bird a bollocking, and
fortunately, they let me have my card back. Of course, now I'm going to be
scared to buy a bagel with it in case I get arrested and sent to Cuba for
fraud.

When the UK wakes up in a few hours, I'm going to have some choice things to
say to Lloyds Bank and VISA.

Rant over,
Roger.

Did they give you the "it's for your protection" BS even though you are only liable for the first 50.00 if the card is stolen. (at least in the USA anyway)

Wankers.

It reminds me of the occasion when it took me 20 minutes to convince a liquor store employee that a US Residence Card was an acceptable bit of ID. It's probably the most forge-proof piece of plastic I've ever seen. LOL.

Wow. That one got straight through the anti-swear censor.

Jeez, Roger, don't you know Instant Karma when you see it?

What were you thinking, trying to buy a new laptop the day before your girlfriend arrives for an overseas vacation?

What were you thinking, trying to buy a new laptop the day before your girlfriend arrives for an overseas vacation?

That's easy -- "If I can hide it in my suitcase until we're getting on the plane to go home, she can't make me return it!"

I used to be with Lloyds Bank. I wont go into details, but let's just say they are utter wankers. I have since used cahoot and Virgin One accounts, both have been brilliant.

My co-director was the subject of a fairly substantial credit card fraud, in fact it was featured on a UK television programme.

One of the things that came out was how their computers monitor untypical usage, leading on from which, which they don't seem to publicise, if you tell them when and where you are going on holiday/business, it can take account of that in monitoring.

I can't say whether that would have helped you, but it might have done.

Have you ever had any fraudulent charges on your card? Your acccount may have been 'locked down' to only accepting UK transactions (even if the fraud was UK based). If that is the case, then you'll need to notify them of all foreign spending.

We got this quite often when processing orders for the empeg eStore.

their computers monitor untypical usage

This is Roger we're talking about. Buying expensive laptops on the other side of the world the day before his girlfriend turns up is typical usage...

Peter

Yeah, I suspect that he's more pissed off about the fact he can't use the old "Oh, that? Had it for months, didn't you notice it?" excuse when she turns up....

Seriously - I have had almost exactly the same experience with a Lloyds VISA at the head of a lengthy queue of impatient people with over 500 pounds of spare parts lying on the counter, only two hours away from a flight to NL. It was refused, and they were told to withhold the card. When I spoke on the phone to the bloke at the VISA office, I was told the same thing - "Untypical spending". Apparently, me spending money at a parts counter that I use all the time, with more than enough to cover the amount in the account, was "Untypical". This, in spite of the fact that the signature matched, that I had provided the asked for identification (driver's license with photo).While I applaud their attempts to be alert and pre-emptive, asking for the card to be withheld by the guy serving me (who is a personal friend, for God's sakes, and authenticated me over the phone) was what utterly ticked me off.

Buying expensive laptops on the other side of the world the day before his girlfriend turns up is typical usage...

If he's always doing it, he must have a heap of lap tops in his corner, I'm in Peterborough, friday, could I pop down and relieve him of one?

I always travel with four credit cards, kept in a location almost as secure as my Empeg. Although I generally only use the one, it has got me out of this precise situation and, more frequently, got me cash from choosy ATM's.

Can't the poor lad tell the girlfriend that the Company has provided it for his work and it shows how highly regarded and valuable he is to the team!

Does a girlfriend have a right to get upset because her boyfriend bought himself a toy? Gee, I wouldn't think so.....
I would hope that she wouldn't care.

I was over in NY last month and found that two days into my trip, my Egg card had been frozen. But get this, it wasn't for the transactions I had made whilst over there, it was because I had two purchases from Amazon US within a couple of days of each other. Needless to say, I gave the person on the other end of the phone a good talking to and the phone call didn't cost me penny either! That said, it nearly cost me my trip to the empire state building which, when ascending the lift attendant gleefully reminds you that post 9/11 it is now the tallest building in New York again. Can't say it made me feel much better....

I went to Japan about 4 summers ago. When I came back we got a call from VISA about the charges that were made there, checking to make sure my card wasn't one of many stolen at the Nagano Olympics

I would hope that she wouldn't care

Precisely my thinking when I bought the Empeg.....An AudiTT....An MGf....4 Sony CD changers....A Hymer Motorhome....A 42" Plasma Screen...Heck, I wish she'd put her foot down, it was a good year and a fantastic bonus, but heck, I've run out of cash!

In reply to:

---

Precisely my thinking when I bought the Empeg.....An AudiTT....An MGf....4 Sony CD changers....A Hymer Motorhome....A 42" Plasma Screen...

---

Jeepers H Crackers!!!

What on earth do you do? I could probably afford the TT if I stopped paying my mortgage...

That last posting looks ao arrogant, I'm embarrassed!

I'm not so far from you in Leeds, I used at one time to also run a Manchester Office, I've been MD of my own business for 20 years, when you open your MEN and look at the job ads. I'm the largest regional independent advertising agency designing, writing and placing those advertisements.

Own up time:
I sold the TT because I didn't like it, I also sold my wife's Range Rover and bought her a Honda CRV( Which she preferred), when I saw the new company car tax bandings. Then I bought the motorhome.

I first saw and ordered the MGF when I was shown it in the Rover design facility ( A pal of mine was a Director until BMW nuked him! ). Three years later I won the same car, fair and square, in a Daily Telegraph competition.

When I first saw plasma screen TV's, they were £10,000 and I said that I would get one when they we're under £2,000, I relented on a special deal at £2,499.

Where I should be putting money into a pension fund (although I'm not so sure at the moment), I spend it on CD's to add to my 2,000 plus LP's and cassettes, hence the 4 CD Changers, which are linked by a Slink-e from Nirvis.com to a PC, which allows me to reach on CD or MP3, all my collection over 40 years.

My Empeg is used for a large selection from that collection either called up by playlist or at random, plus my entire collection of talking books, but most of the week, whilst driving, I listen to MP2's of BBC radio ( you'll be pleased to hear) particularly: Bob Harris, Paul Jones, Mike Harding, Jools Holland - recorded as DAB on two Wavefinders.

I use a variety of software on two PC's to achieve all this, but only 3 years ago I didn't own a computer and recorded radio programmes on a double cassette deck with an immersion heater timer.

But yes, I've done pretty well in business, considering Robert Maxwell bust me when he fell of the boat and I virtually had to start again and near lost my house.

Hope that answers all your questions and let's me off the hook for making petulant, arrogant postings! I would have sent it to you personally, but I wanted to excuse myself to the whole community.

No, I've never had any fraudulent spending on my card.

The card's been working fine for paying for hotels, etc.. Moreover, the reason that the VISA bird gave me on the phone is that they weren't able to verify the number, not because of atypical spending patterns.

I'm guessing that VISA's computer systems suck, and the fact that I used a form of ID unfamiliar to the manager of CompUSA meant that he got in touch with them. If I'd used my passport, perhaps it wouldn't have got that far, and I'd have been able to walk out with the laptop.

On the bright side, it's meant that I've not had to pay for dinner while we've been here .

I have her permission -- well, I told her that I intended to buy it, and she didn't complain -- which is good enough for me.

I phoned Lloyds this morning. They have no record of the card being declined. I guess this means that VISA US didn't actually bother to check the card thoroughly. They've also said that I should have no further problems with the card.

Either way, I'm going to be careful with it until Jen turns up -- at least that way, we'll have a spare card to use. When I get back to the UK, I'm going to get another credit card, just to be on the safe side in future.

Yeah, I've run into this exact problem before with my credit card... Being a student at a large university requires one to wait in line for ungodly amounts of time to get the priveledge of spending insane amounts of money on textbooks. Last semester, after waiting for forty five minutes, Visa's system was down and couldn't verify my credit card so instead of approving the purchase, they declined it... Of course, at this point, the bookstore wouldn't let me pay by check because they assumed those were bad as I admited they were linked to the same account. (won't do that again) I called my bank and complained, and they said the transaction had never even reached them and there was nothing they could have done...

Matthew

Which screen did you get?

I'm in the offing for one at the moment, and looking at the 42" panasonic, but can't find it for < £3,500.

Just curious.

Paul.

You only have one credit card? What kind of consumer are you?

I have one true credit card (with an amazing $200 limit), and a CompUSA store card. My other "Credit card" ties directly to my bank account. Thats the way I'd like to keep it (and once I pay off the CompUSA card, it's probably going to be canceled).

I prefer my debt to only be on large things, like my car. The only reason I got a loan on my motorcycle was for the credit raiting, I plan on selling stock next year to pay it off.

Does a girlfriend have a right to get upset because her boyfriend bought himself a toy? Gee, I wouldn't think so.....
I would hope that she wouldn't care.

The right? No. The likelihood? Definitely. After all, that's money he could have been spending to get her perishables like flowers and chocolates.

Are you sure you're a woman?

I think that in my case, her reason for getting upset would be more that I can't actually afford a new laptop -- I'm buying it on credit. This is not a big deal -- I'll have the card paid off in a couple of months, probably.

It's just that she's trained as an accountant, and doesn't understand the concept of "retroactively saving" for stuff .

... retroactively saving ...

I believe that's known as ``deficit spending''. You could at least try telling her that.

After all, that's money he could have been spending to get her perishables like flowers and chocolates

Imagine my girlfriend's suprise when I told her the change in my coin bank was going towards the new computer, then I use it to take her out to a nice dinner and a musical she wanted to see. Racked up many points for that one

Oh, I wasn't suggesting that the girlfriend problem would be related to spending the money on the laptop. That would only be a problem if it were a spouse.

No, what I meant was:

"Wow, we're in another country having a big vacation and we're going to travel all over the place. Hey, look what I bought, honey, a new laptop, so I can play with it the whole time and I don't have to pay attention to you for the whole trip."

Roger:I phoned Lloyds this morning. They have no record of the card being declined.

matthew_k: I called my bank and complained, and they said the transaction had never even reached them and there was nothing they could have done...

In line with your experiences, I have had Visas declined 3 times in the past 4 years while on trips outside the US. In each case, my righteous paranoia led me to leave the merchant and call the respective Visa issuer within 10 minutes. In each case, they said the card was fine.

Merchants have variable hookups to Visa, whether through a gateway from their point-of-sale system, a service bureau, a direct dial, or whatever. As you suggest, I think some of these failed attempts to validate the credit card never really make it all the way ...and their systems have differing abilities to say something intelligent, so they just say DECLINED!

In part due to this I carry 2 Visas, but I always try to keep enough cash to get me back to the airport if things get dicey!

No need to apologise! It was just a rather impressive shopping list, speaking of which, I must remember not to be so nosey in future.

I wonder how many other empeggers there are in the north (west) maybe we could organise a little gathering sometime. I'm too impatient to wait nearly a whole year for Amersfoort!

manager spent 30 (thirty) minutes on the phone, they declined my card.

Both of my credit cards have my picture right on the card.

Would this type of card have made a difference in your situation?

tanstaafl.

"...I don't have to pay attention to you for the whole trip..."

Heh. I like to think I'd be nicer than that. I sold it to her on the basis that we could use Starbucks wireless to plan the rest of the trip -- we've so far only planned out the stay in SF.

The other reason I wanted it was so I could off load the photos from my camera occasionally -- a 128Mb CF card doesn't stretch that far.

Besides, she does karate, so I'm definitely going to be paying attention .

It might have done. I think if I'd used a form of ID familiar to the guy in the store (i.e. my passport), they'd probably not have checked with VISA, and there wouldn't have been such a problem.

Only a couple of card issuers in the UK support photos at the moment, though. Mine isn't one of them.

Heh. I like to think I'd be nicer than that. I sold it to her on the basis that we could use Starbucks wireless to plan the rest of the trip -- we've so far only planned out the stay in SF.


LOL. I'd get glares just for suggesting that

I prefer my debt to only be on large things, like my car.

There's where we differ. I made a trip to New Hampshire a year ago (to pick up the ShoWagon) and I took $200 cash with me. I am now down to the final $10 of that $200 in my wallet.

This is because everything I buy goes on my credit card, even $2.95 purchases at the auto parts store.

However, I have an absolutely inviolable rule: If I do not have money in the bank to cover the purchase, I don't make the purchase. I have no idea what the interest rate on my credit card is, as I have never paid interest -- the bill is paid in full every month.

I have saved all my credit card bills for the last 10 years or so, and thus I can tell you what just about every nickel I have spent has been for. It is very nice to get a monthly summary of everything I have spent money on.

A credit card when used properly is not a spawn of the devil -- it is a useful money management tool.

tanstaafl.

when I worked at comphell a couple years ago we were supposed to call in everything over a certain dollar amount. I can't remember what the amount was but I remember it being pretty low.

Flowers and chocolates? What kind of crap is that. Yes I'm a woman but I guess not an average one Flowers are best left growing in the ground and I don't like candy much at all, after you give it up you lose the taste for it.

If I had a boyfriend, I would not say anything about what he bought, that's his business and his money.

Hey, Baby. You busy this weekend?

Oh, I guess we're a little too long distance for it to work.
Oh, well.

Ah too bad because I am free this weekend

Ha! Now that would be a first for this board

This is because everything I buy goes on my credit card, even $2.95 purchases at the auto parts store.

Actually, we don't differ all that much, we just use different means to accomplish the same ends. I use my debit card on almost everything, and that is directly tied to my checking account. I get the same monthly report, and an almost instant report online. I do use the ATM quite a bit, but that money is almost always spent on low cost food trips.

I, like you, keep debt to a minimum with daily things. My new computer system was bought with a touch or credit, but thats due to my delayed selling of my old LCD monitor.

I typicially use my $200 credit card for gas, and other small things. I tend to pay a random amount off every month, thus allowing the credit card company to earn some money off of me, but not a ton. This, combined with my car and motorcycle credit marks should put me in a good position to buy a house next year. The fact that my bank offered me up to $25,000 on a new vehicle makes me feel pretty good that my credit file is doing just fine. (And it was at a low interest rate too).

Didn't Microsoft man Gates meet his wife on the internet?

Laura: Does a girlfriend have a right to get upset because her boyfriend bought himself a toy? Gee, I wouldn't think so.....
I would hope that she wouldn't care.


Wfaulk:The right? No. The likelihood? Definitely. After all, that's money he could have been spending to get her perishables like flowers and chocolates.


Um, I'm with Laura here. I really don't care how my SO spend his money. His businees, not mine. I can remember on one occasion a guy I was dating complained about my spending habits.. I got rid of him fairly soon after that. Then again, I've run into men who had a problem with me picking up the check. Never went out with them again either,


And IMO, flowers and chocolate suck. Especially flowers. And I got tons of those at my old job. I can actually remeber asking why the [censored] men did this, considering it was the week of my birthday and there had to be at least $400 worth of them around my office. Waste of money, almost as bad as Valentines Day (crock of [censored]).

wfaulk:Are you sure you're a woman?

Last I checked, yeah, I am. Maybe this is why the bulk of my relationships end in disaster.l Who knows.

Was that the same internet that he said was a fad and would never catch on?

Was that the same internet that he said was a fad and would never catch on?

Or the one that the chief technical honcho at British Telecom told us in a lecture, at an international business conference, would be providing DVD movies on demand by now?

I only believed him because he had an Empeg in the montage of technical advances behind him , as he spoke!

I guess north (west) doesn't include us folks in the far north (west) like Edinburgh and Aberdeen. Or does it? Much easier to get to England than Holland from here:-)

Oh, I dunno - Edinburgh/Schiphol is only 49 quid one way with EasyJet. Makes it nice and easy to get to Amersfoort for the next meet

The more the merrier! I wouldn't mind trying to organise something, as long as there is sufficient interest. Nothing on the scale of Amersfoort though...

. I use my debit card on almost everything, and that is directly tied to my checking account.

I was using my debit card quite a bit until I got nervous about leaving that number in lots of stores and restaurants. Granted the chances for fraud are still low, but the debit card doesn't provide the same protection that Visa/MC do. So now, I just use it for ATM and maybe at the gas pump.

The more paranoid I get the more I want to return to a pure cash model. Part of it is the whole tracking aspect. When Radio Shack asks my name, I love telling them "Johnny Cash". Oh, and I won't tell Doug that I get really wound up when (with cash in hand) I get stuck behind somebody charging a $1.65 cup of coffee at Tully's and the POS credit card reader won't work!

> A credit card when used properly is not a spawn of
> the devil -- it is a useful money management tool.

I use credit cards in the same way you do. All my spending goes on it, and it is automatically paid in full every month. I never pay interest and I can get cards with loads of benefits and extras and not care that they have a high interest rate.

Because I rarely carry more than about £30 cash, I carry three cards, one of each type, just in case there is ever a problem; and it has saved me from embarrassing situations in restaurants more than once. Of course when I call the card issuer later, they claim never to have received the request.

but the debit card doesn't provide the same protection that Visa/MC do.

I do get a bit worried about this, but my current solution is to just keep enough money for what I expect to spend in my checking account it's linked to. The rest sits in my savings account, and a quick online session or ATM transaction can raise that. I wish there was better security on debit cards though. Because for me, it was my only way of ordering an empeg back when the Mark 1 shipped. The world requires that people have a credit card number, but are unwilling to risk giving one to someone with no credit (not bad credit mind you), and who dosen't have thousands in student loans.

I do get a bit worried about this, but my current solution is to just keep enough money for what I expect to spend in my checking account it's linked to.

Part of recent paranoia comes from the fact that my employer moved to monthly (Ugh!) direct-deposit payroll and I have several automatic payments from that account on the 5th of the month. I had nightmarish visions of someone cleaning me out on the 3rd-4th!

Coming in a bit late here, but my boss recently used the company credit card in Hong Kong to but a Sony Vaio, Nikon digi camera and another expensive item. Needless to say it was cancelled as it has only ever been used in the UK for smallish things.

They wanted a signed letter from him to reactivate it and didn't really care that he was in Australia and wouldn't be back for at least six months! I think we got the company secretary (his dad) to write to them to authorise it's reactivation and let them know it would be used in Australia a bit in the next few months.

I'm with Lloyds TSB and they have been pretty good - I've got a graduate account which has some neat benefits (interest free overdraft etc.) but the main annoyance is the excessive queues in the local branch when I need to visit (mainly wire transfers)

I have just got a cahoot card because I was told a few months back that fraudulent transactions on a Visa debit card are an b'stard to clear - you lose the money until *they* get it back which can take many weeks.

Gareth

When Radio Shack asks my name, I love telling them "Johnny Cash".

Oh, that's a good one. I'm gonna use that one.

Johnny Cash

Probably best if you dressed in black, for identity purposes - these VISA guys are bright cookies, but if they ask your dress code, it'll ring all the right bells.

Yeah, I do that all the time. When the ask my name I just say Cash without any intonation whatsoever. Some type it in and some get what I mean and just skip it. One moron joked back "Not Johnny Cash is it?". Yeah. That's it. Just let me pay and leave as soon as possible, you MORON.

I work in a similar way (though I normally pay for things under a fiver or so in cash). And I know I'll never pay interest on my card - after being stiffed for ten quid or so by being on holiday and missing the payment date by one weekend, I got a direct debit on it. The card company provides full-balance direct debit if you ask for it, but they only promote the minimum-payment DD.

Last time I went to the USA, I had $10 in change left over from the previous trip. I had to make an effort to spend that much cash in the month I was there!

Just let me pay and leave as soon as possible, you MORON.

"Radio shack. You've got questions. We've got blank stares."

"Radio shack. You've got questions. We've got blank stares."

Oh, they're much more than mere morons. At least, the UK branch of Radio Shack (Tandy), while it existed, had some of the stupidest people I've ever seen. These guys would have been out of their depth if asked to stand up.

The best example of this was a few years back when I was in the local Tandy shop with a friend, and asked to look at a 5 inch LCD monitor that was on special. It took 6 C cells, and when I asked to see it working they had to put some in. The more experienced of the two guys behind the till told the new guy to help me. He removed the thing from the display case, turned it over and over in his hands for about a minute, and finally found the prominently labelled hatch on the back where that batteries went.

Another minute or so of fumbling, and he had managed to break the clip that held the door shut and remove it, exposing the battery compartment. At this point he stared around the shop helplessly, like a sheep asked to explain differential calculus. His superior idiot pointed him gently at the small box of test batteries, and the guy then took another couple of minutes trying several different sizes until he found some that fitted. He of course managed to get them in backwards. My friend Jon and I were by this time going red trying not to laugh.

A few moment of poking power buttons failed to elicit any signs of life, and of course no one else was going to point out where he had gone wrong. This was far too funny to interrupt. Anyway, after a while, and a short discussion between both drones, our one got the idea to measure the battery voltage with a multimeter.

He removed the batteries, took one over to the end of the counter where the test meter was, and fiddled with it for a while until he got it more or less on the correct setting. He then, and I swear this is true, proceeded to put both test probes on the same end of the C cell he was holding! Jon and I almost had strokes on the spot trying not to collapse in hysterical fits of laughter.

After a few seconds, I managed to get control of myself enough to gasp out that he had to measure both ends, then simply couldn't believe it when he solemnly turned the battery over and put both probes on the other end.

Anyway, this farce went on for a few more minutes, until eventually he made the thing work. I looked at it, decided it wasn't what I wanted, thanked the fellow, and left. As soon as we were a safe distance away, Jon and I simply collapsed in laughter for nearly ten minutes. It was some of the best live entertainment I've ever seen

pca

That's got me laughing out loud and scaring the co-workers, too. I'm going to print that.

I get really wound up when (with cash in hand) I get stuck behind somebody charging a $1.65 cup of coffee at Tully's and the POS credit card reader won't work!

Or how about at the grocery store, when the clerk has finished ringing up about $160 worth of groceries for the lady in front of you... and then she starts fishing through her purse, trying to find her checkbook. "Oh, do you have a pen I can borrow?" "Umm, which store is this, is this Safeway?" "What was that amount again?" "Oh, you need to see my ID, don't you... just a minute, let me look for it.."

The grocery stores I go to, I swipe my card while they're still ringing up the items, all I have to do is sign the receipt and I'm out of there in less time than you can give the cashier a $5 bill and take $3.35 in change!



tanstaafl.

Better yet is the growing trend of stores with do-it-yourself bagging and checking out. Except there's only one guy getting the payments for all those lanes.

I also have a debit card with a checking and savings account. I've had it for 7 years now with no difficulty, even when I lost it in France (sorry for the typical reaction, but I now DO NOT like the French police. long story) Anyway, I haven't had a case of fraud yet. *knocks on desk*

Better yet is the growing trend of stores with do-it-yourself bagging and checking out. Except there's only one guy getting the payments for all those lanes.

That's weird. Ours have bill, coin, and card receptors and can spit out change in addition to a receipt. They also have the obligatory moron standing at the end, making sure that no one steals stuff, I guess.

But I really hate these things.

First off, they almost have enough counter space for you to put down the Snickers bar you're buying, let alone if you're trying to purchase your weekly groceries.

Second, if you need to purchase produce, which obviously has no bar code, you need to punch in a code for it. But they've yet to get the idea that it might be smart to put a list of said codes near the scanner. Nope. You've gotta spend ten minutes trying to get the attention of lobotomy-boy over there to find the code for you.

Third, this would all be moot if it didn't seem that every time I go, that's the only lane open. I usually argue with them for a while until they give up and check me out at a real register.

I don't have an inherent problem with these self-checkout lanes existing, but it seems like it's just another way to reduce the amount of customer service given. It'll get to the point where it's the only way to buy groceries, and I'll then be forced into having them delivered.

Interesting. Our home town recently got some of those self-checkout lines installed at a local K-mart. Our first.

Ironically, our local K-mart has been, for years, notorious for having the worst and slowest checkout lines, staffed by the most moronic of all possible employees. I thought it was funny that their attempt at solving the problem was to install the self-checkout system rather than simply raising the IQ of the staff.

"Interesting. Our home town recently got some of those self-checkout lines installed at a local K-mart. Our first. "

Yeah, but half of the damn items still misring at the register and you STILL have to wait for the SAME staff members to fix the problem. It's the same reason the traditional lines are so long. I swear to God, EVERY time I go to that store (Tony and I live in the same small town) I have to wait while someone runs in back to check the price on an item for the person ahead of me. And they're usually quibbling about $1-2 in price change.

I think the bankruptcy may be the only solution here.

This could be the reason the company filed chapter 11.

I've had my groceries delivered for almost three years, by ordering online (tesco.com). They charge £5, but considering that someone wanders around the store with a trolley and a mobile checkout, packs it in bags and then delivers it to the door, it's a bargain - and costs less than the cab fare from the store.

Wish they offered that service here.

The grocery stores I go to, I swipe my card while they're still ringing up the items, all I have to do is sign the receipt and I'm out of there in less time than you can give the cashier a $5 bill and take $3.35 in change!

One advantage of my debit card here, it's also an ATM card. All the self card scanners I have come across at the checkout lanes (including Walmart as well) allow me to swipe, enter my PIN, and leave. Unless my stripe decided to not work. Out of the few cards I have, my debit card has to be replaced every 2 months now. I know it's time when the Walmart lady grabs the card, wraps it in a plastic bag, and swipes it. Because by the time I get the replacement, it will degrade beyond the point of that trick even working.

And can someone explain to me how that helps? My friend didn't believe me that it did until he watched a Best Buy person do it as well.

Second, if you need to purchase produce, which obviously has no bar code, you need to punch in a code for it. But they've yet to get the idea that it might be smart to put a list of said codes near the scanner. Nope. You've gotta spend ten minutes trying to get the attention of lobotomy-boy over there to find the code for you.

Odd, all of our King Soopers here that have these lanes have a button to press for produce. Then it brings up a menu to find the item, and adds it to the list. I know they didn't roll it out that way, but it's been like that for a bit. Initially you would put the item there, and wait on the attendant to enter it from their station (each station here has a camera on the pad so they can see it). They tend to work really well here as long as everyone remembers there is an item limit. It would be nice to see more of them, since when I use them, it takes me no time at all to get out of the store, around all the old ladies with checkbooks and fear of technology

The real solution is to genetically engineer the produce so that the correct bar code simply appears in the pigmentation of the skin.

That is a cool idea but also immensely disturbing for some reason
One of the local supermarkets near me used to have scales where it printed out a little sticker for you automatically after you chose what produce it was.

- Trevor

Sainsburys also do this service but they continually send me free delivery vouchers through the post. They all say first time customers only but nobody complains...

- Trevor

I have to wait while someone runs in back to check the price on an item for the person ahead of me.

The local K-Mart in my town has a policy that if the item doesn't ring up right (bar code not in the system, or price that rings up is different from that marked on the shelf) then the item is immediately sold at whatever price the customer says it is. No arguments, no "Price check on Register 13", no sending somebody back to check on the chance that the store just might lose 40 cents on the transaction. They just ring it up. Of course, that applies to customer-supplied prices within reason -- obviously a 6-head VCR isn't going out the door for $19.95.

They apparently take the quaint view that customer satisfaction is more important than wringing the last nickel of profit out of every transaction.

tanstaafl.

Or how about at the grocery store, when the clerk has finished ringing up about $160 worth of groceries for the lady in front of you... and then she starts fishing through her purse, trying to find her checkbook.

When cash/check transactions were the "dominant paradigm" (argh!) I'm guessing this would be the ugly scenario that you would be more likely to encounter (though I can say that I have), but the underlying problem seems behavioral -- customer who doesn't have their [censored] together.

I use my debit card quite happily for groceries and it serves as a nice, no-charge "cash back", ersatz ATM, too. I'd say, though, that nowadays, you are as likely to get stuck behind some disorganized person fishing for their debit card as you are to be stuck behind someone fishing for their cash.

What irks me (mildly) about my occasional plight at Tully's is that the problem is not really behavioral but systemic. More often than is desirable, the POS (nice double entendre, eh?) card reader won't work, or the connection to the verification system won't work, or it will take *forever* because the system is getting hammered by Christmas shoppers. Meanwhile, I'm standing there with $2 in my hand, and all I want is a cup of coffeeeeeee!!!!

So, I guess I could say that I have less of a problem with credit card verification problems (in front of me or when it happens to me) when I am at the end of a 45-minute grocery shop worth $80 as compared to those times when I attempt to acquire a $1.50 Grande half-caf drip in an interaction that *should* take 1 minute but instead takes 4 or 5.

Eh?

I'm gonna use that one.

I've had several RatShack tell me that I'm their biggest customer! So, I'm not the only one.

Well, the problem with all of that is the cash-only/ten-items-or-fewer (and I've actually started to see some places use ``fewer'' instead of ``less'' -- yay!) is always closed or some uber-bitch has decided that the rules don't apply to her and goes through it with a hundred items and then pays the $300 bill with thirty travellers' checks that she hasn't started signing until after the cashier is done ringing up the purchase because she's too busy ignoring her toddler running about the store screaming its head off and plowing into other shoppers. Of course, since she was obviously in such a big hurry, she parked her Canyonero in the fire lane, yet still somehow manages to leave the grocery cart in the middle of a parking space.

I live in a neighborhood near a lot of rich bitches. Can you tell?

But I really hate these things.

I have come to accept and even like ATMs, even though I know that the motivation for banks to install them was not to make me happy but was to reduce labor costs.

With subsequent "innovations" like DIY check stands, though, I am more acutely aware of whose interests are being served. I refuse to use DIY check stands and won't shop at local merchants (like Fred Meyer) in future if I have a problem finding a live, breathing cashier.

Systems like these are often fine so long as your interaction doesn't raise any exceptions. 3-4 weeks ago at O'Hare airport (during an interrupted trip) I went to a manned check-in desk while a colleague (against my advice) went to an automated "Express" check-in. One minute later I had my boarding pass, but then had to wait about 15 minutes for my compatriot as the express system failed to digest some aspect of his checked baggage situation and advised him to pick up the handy telephone mounted on the console so that he could wait in a queue to iron things out with a real person.

Heh, I like that K-Mart "it scans or you tell *us* the price" policy. Would that other retailers would be so bold -- and not wind up Chapter 11!

ATMs are great until you get the person in front of you that has forgotten their PIN for the first 2 tries, takes out less than they wanted so have to try again and finally want to check their balance, order a new cheque book and print out a statement...

I've always saved loads of time by checking in via the automated British Airways executive club check in system. You get your tickets out of a machine at the airport and check in online the day before when you select what seat you want. You don't have to queue as well.
You get a lot of nasty looks from other people in the long queues though

- Trevor

(and I've actually started to see some places use ``fewer'' instead of ``less'' -- yay!)

Bitt and *only* Bitt!!

has decided that the rules don't apply to her

Oh, I see this a lot...but even in my decidedly middle-class part of Seattle.

I live in a neighborhood near a lot of rich bitches. Can you tell?

Yes. Sounds like a unique neighborhood!!

I know you're basically agreeing with me, but the difference with ATMs is that they provide a service that wasn't available before, namely that you can do banking, including withdrawing money, outside normal banking hours.

But self-checkout lines don't provide any further service. They make you do more work for the same result. It's the same reason I avoid buffets. If I'm going out to eat, I want someone to wait on me.

I've always saved loads of time by checking in via the automated British Airways executive club check in system. You get your tickets out of a machine at the airport and check in online the day before when you select what seat you want. You don't have to queue as well.

Yes, actually, the various automatic check-in systems can be quite good for "no exception" situations. To clarify, in the O'Hare example, my colleague had the choice of going with me to a nearly-no-wait, frequent-flyer check-in desk or the "Express" line when we had been delayed overnight ...and rebooked ...and he had an upgrade ...and a checked bag...and so on and so on. he made the wrong choice under the circumstances.

I will say I *am* suspicious of "Express" systems (and E-tickets) in cases where travel is critical -- where you may want the carrier to shift you to another carrier to actually get yuou where you need to be. But that's another story. With United on the verge of Chapter 11, i'm starting to make *all* my tickets paper tickets!!

You get a lot of nasty looks from other people in the long queues though

Jimey don't do long queues!

But self-checkout lines don't provide any further service. They make you do more work for the same result.

Yes. A much better point. I wasn't really thinking of, or acknowledging, the additional benefits that ATMs have provided beyond saving banks payroll. Like, gad, you can get money in France on a *Sunday*.

Interestingly, an old GF's friend had a job with a West Coast bank where the whole point of the job was to optimize how much money was waylaid in ATMs. Yes, they never want the ATM to run out of money, but, at the same time, all that cash sitting in ATMs isn't *making* more money the way the bank would like. So some of his schemes involved things like "rapid response" ATM restockers -- Corvettes loaded with cash zooming around the city refilling ATMs on a just-in-time basis!

Luckily I haven't had an special exceptions occur when travelling. I do agree that talking to a human is vastly better normally as they can actually help you or try to understand what is wrong.
I try to stick with the larger airlines to avoid problems. This hasn't always worked out because my friend unfortunately was booked on a Canada 3000 flight just when it went bankrupt and shutdown. They managed to get him onto another carrier's flight though a couple of days later. His girlfriend was unimpressed to say the least!

I ordered a laptop through the online site at Dell. It was stuck in the processing stage for about 2 weeks and during that time, the price of the laptop was reduced. I phoned up asking to see if there was any way of getting a discount (well, you never know and the guy said that because I was an internet order I couldn't. But if I had called up on the phone in the first place then he could have done it then and there. All of the orders for the entire European internet site are handled by two people apparently.

- Trevor

> They apparently take the quaint view that customer
> satisfaction is more important than wringing the last
> nickel of profit out of every transaction.

I've never understood why that kind of policy is not more common. I've only once seen something similar. A customer in front of me at Tesco had bought some kind of fruit the operator didn't recognise. They turned to the supervisor behind them and asked. The supervisor took hold of the bag, looked at it. Then said 'I don't know. Free'.

Yet other times I've been stuck in a queue while the checkout operator gets up and goes across the store to verify a shelf-edge price, returns with the same price as the till had. Then has to go back again with the customer who points to a different shelf where a half price offer was marked. It took five minutes. The operator apologised for the delay and being British, I said it wasn't a problem.

The supervisor took hold of the bag, looked at it. Then said 'I don't know. Free'.

That might be less customer service and more employer disservice.

Case in point: I used to work at a store that sold, amongst other things, role-playing games. One particular publisher, West End Games, never printed a price on their products. Ever. Even in the UPC translation. Despite this, and despite the fact that he wouldn't allow anyone else to unpack the games shipments, my boss, who was also owner of the store, would never put a price sticker on them. Ever.

So when a customer would come to me and ask how much they were, I'd usually make up a price that was somewhere in the neighborhood of what I figured half-price would be.

This sort of thing also happened frequently with Games Workshop games, which were exclusively priced in UK Pounds.

So don't assume that a clerk is being nice to you. Assume he's being bitchy to his employer.

That ain't bad! I didn't realise EasyJet did that route.

Hmmmmm - useful to know. Cheers.

There was a story in the paper last week about stupid checkout operators.

Apparently the goods were flying through the scanner until they couldn't find the barcode on the last one - they held up the little plastic divider and asked them if they knew how much it was!

"Don't worry - I don't want it any more" the customer replied!

Gareth

But that's another story. With United on the verge of Chapter 11, i'm starting to make *all* my tickets paper tickets!!

Yes, many of us would like to do that. It's the only way to easily change
carriers when one airline hoses you.

Unfortunately, American Airlines is eliminating paper tickets entirely in a few
months. I think other airlines are likely to follow suit.

Did the same thing when I was working at Target during high school. I wasnt a full time cashier but when I did cashier I made sure to be efficient. I dont think I ever called on a manager (well once but thats because some lady had every card and even her checks come back as not accepted then she proceeded to yell at me and then start throwing bags of merchandise over the counter at me) but working on the sales floor most of the time I knew the price for most stuff so if an item did not scan I automatically deducted about 50-75% off the retail price and asked the customer if that seemed fair (no one ever said no) and went about my business. Oh yeah if a clothing item came up with no price I priced it at $1.99 unless it looked cheaper than $1.99 in which case it was $0.49. Im sure I made the store lose some cash but I didnt care I hated the job and they never reprimanded me for what I did.

Oh yeah if a clothing item came up with no price I priced it at $1.99 unless it looked cheaper than $1.99 in which case it was $0.49. Im sure I made the store lose some cash but I didnt care

Actually, given the incredible markup on clothing, you were probably still giving the store a profit, or at worst, breaking even.

Also, don't discount the amount of customer goodwill generated by this behavior -- you probably encouraged enough repeat business that in the long run this practice was more profitable than being hardnosed and getting the exact price would have been.

tanstaafl.

Stop it! All of you! You're making too much sense! Stop the logic!!!

Stop it! All of you! You're making too much sense! Stop the logic!!!

I dunno. I haven't seen a lot of logic here. I mean... complaining about not knowing the checkout codes for produce? Who the heck eats vegetables anyway? Give me a nice juicy steak any day. And then there was the line about not going to buffets on account of wanting to be served -- uh, uh -- I go to buffets when I go out because I want to eat, and I can eat a lot more if I don't have to wait for waiters. My favourite buffet memory was a Ponderosa steakhouse -- 9 heaping plates of entrees, plus a large helping of dessert.

Now here's a guy who I can relate to.

The all you can eat buffets at chinese/italian/indian restaurants are the best idea ever. You can always eat far more than is good for you.

Not sure what that green leafy stuff is for either.

Not sure what that green leafy stuff is for either.

That's where you tie your horse up.

Not sure what that green leafy stuff is for either.

That's stuff that food eats...

/Michael

I wonder how many other empeggers there are in the north (west) maybe we could organise a little gathering sometime. I'm too impatient to wait nearly a whole year for Amersfoort!

Sorry to take so long replying, I'm in for a meet - I figure a chat to other Empeg owners might improve my, rather untechnical and simplistic, approach to the subject.

All that concerns me is fragmenting the meets into smaller events - I'm dead keen to get to Holland next year, and obviously with the whole of Europe to take in, that, comparatively large, meet is well worth putting resource behind.

Well, it all worked out in the end. I'm posting this message from a shiny new Sony SRX87 notebook PC .

Once Jen had turned up, I dragged her down to CompUSA on 5th St in San Francisco, and bought one.

I used the same credit card. This time, however, I used my passport as ID. No phone call was made, no problem arose. I walked out of the store with a Sony box under my arm.

The onboard wireless works well, too. I checked it out at the Starbucks around the corner from the hotel .

It was some of the best live entertainment I've ever seen

Patrick, I just wanted to say "Thanks". Last Saturday night I managed to put a room full of people in stitches by reading that story aloud (giving you full credit of course).

"Radio shack. You've got questions. We've got blank stares."

No, it's "Radio Shack. You've got questions. We've got....Oh, look Shiny *poing* *poing*"

Here's something my wife found online, no comment, but we found it funny:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=astronomy+wife+uncle&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=37DE4B42.A8DDAC63%40acrcorp.com&rnum=2

Unbelieveably, two of the guys working at Rat Shack (Sh*t Shack, Adapter City - pick your fave) by my house happen to be pretty knowledgeable. Apparently they're taking classes in electronics at a local VoTech school. I was remarkably surprised when they knew what a SPST NO microswitch was, then took me to the correct bin, then just to be sure it was what they thought it was, let me test it with a meter. (the baggie had been opened and returned)

Later that day, I went to a Circuit City to pick up some speakers for my car, spoke with the "car stereo guru", and recieved a blank stare when I asked him what the frequency response was on a particular set of 6x9's. After trying for a few minutes to convey what kind of information I wanted and why I wanted it, I finally convinced him to fetch me the manual and let me look it up myself. Dolt.

"Radio Shack. You've got questions. We've got....Oh, look Shiny *poing* *poing*"

Hmm... I thought it was "Radio Shack. You've got questions, we've got crap."