Another European idea that wouldn't work in the US

Posted by: tonyc

Another European idea that wouldn't work in the US - 27/02/2004 11:08

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/02/26/britain.speeding.reut/index.html

The American driver's response to a virtual frown would be a real middle finger.
Posted by: eliceo

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 11:28

too bad they don't have pictures, im kind of curious to see what it looks like.
Posted by: TigerJimmy

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in the US - 27/02/2004 11:33

I have seen radar attached to a digital speed display in several areas. It actually seems to have the effect of slowing people down.

I think that assuming that people are speeding because they don't know their speed is foolish, but it seems to work.

Jim
Posted by: Roger

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 11:34

im kind of curious to see what it looks like

It's an LED matrix display, about 1 or 2 feet on each side. If you drive up to it too quickly, it displays a frown face in orangy/red LEDs.

There's one near Cambourne.
Posted by: Roger

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in the US - 27/02/2004 11:37

I think that assuming that people are speeding because they don't know their speed is foolish

I don't think it's foolish. True, when some people are speeding, they're doing it because they don't care what the speed limit is.

On the other hand, I suddenly noticed that I was doing 110mph on the M2 the other month -- I was focussing on the traffic, not how fast I was going. I could have done with a visible warning that I was speeding.

Edit: 110mph, not mpg. YMMV indeed!
Posted by: gui

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 13:27

There's a few LED signs in Leyton that show the speed of cars if over 30 mph. Don't seem to have much purpose other than attempting to trigger them at 31 mph just for fun ;-) Or maybe I'm just a little sad....
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 14:00

Occasionally around here I'll see a mobile speed indicator that shows the speed of the cars passing by. I usually give them the finger, just as you suggest might happen.
Beck said the devices are sometimes placed ahead of cameras giving drivers advance warning about their speeds.
This would so never happen around here. Traffic cameras exist solely for revenue purposes. I don't think we have any speed-activated ones, but the stop light ones are not put at accident prone intersections, just ones where more people are liable to squeak through, like where the speed limit has just changed.
In recent months a number have been blown up with dynamite, some have been torched, while others have been cut down by aggrieved motorists.
I love it.
Posted by: gui

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 14:03

At least some cameras in London are now being taken out of use

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3514747.stm

Doesn't help with bus lane cameras which means performing dangerous left hand turns across the bus lane exactly at the junction to avoid a £50 fine.

Phil
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 14:32

but the stop light ones are not put at accident prone intersections, just ones where more people are liable to squeak through, like where the speed limit has just changed.
 Or where they change the timing of the yellow lights so that the yellows are unimaginably short, or where they lengthen the red/green intervals making the red light wait times maddeningly long. Both of which are carefully calculated to increase the desire for people to run the red lights while simultaneously installing a nearly-automatic system for collecting increased revenue from it.

God, city governments really really suck. I hate politicians and civil engineers...
Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in the US - 27/02/2004 14:39

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/02/26/britain.speeding.reut/index.html

The American driver's response to a virtual frown would be a real middle finger.

We have them all over in Denmark. They work! - They're placed just before schools, and when you're entering small cities. They work for me, especially infront of schools. They're also good to calibrate the speedometer :-)

When i go 55 kmh on the speedometer, they usually say 50 kmh on the radarscreens.

Cheers

Kaare
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 14:51

When i go 55 kmh on the speedometer, they usually say 50 kmh on the radarscreens.
My car does the same thing, although in MPH instead of KPH. I've verified that my speedometer consistently reads 5mph faster than what I'm really going. This is with my GPS, with the radar installations, and I've even used those little mile-marker signs in Oregon in coordination with my cruise control.

I wonder if this is a conspiracy by the car companies and/or the government to make us slow down? I've got a call in to CarTalk with this very question. Maybe they'll put me on the show with it?
Posted by: phaigh

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 15:07

Not a conspiracy.

Cars are tested from manufacturers and manufacturers are fined very heavily if the speedos on their cars show anything *under* the correct speed of the vehicle. Car makers deliberately make the speedos 10% higher than actual speed so as to avoid these sorts of situations.

On my car - 155mpg is actually about 145. Top on the speedo is 170 which is about 160.

HTH

Cheers,

Paul.
Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 15:10

My car does the same thing, although in MPH instead of KPH. I've verified that my speedometer consistently reads 5mph faster than what I'm really going. This is with my GPS, with the radar installations, and I've even used those little mile-marker signs in Oregon in coordination with my cruise control.

I wonder if this is a conspiracy by the car companies and/or the government to make us slow down? I've got a call in to CarTalk with this very question. Maybe they'll put me on the show with it?


I've allways thought that the various makers of cars made the speedometers show a little too much, to be on the safe side. If they showed to little, you could - at least in the US, blame the maker of your car that i wasn't your fault that you were speeding.

There was a case in Denmark, where a lady in the middle age was speeding to an exent that she were about to loose her license (+70% over given speedlimit in Denmark) - She blamed the cruisecontrol in her Ford Mondeo. The case was dropped, as it turned out that the cruisecontrol were infact faulty and kept increasing the speed. You should have thought that she notised, because she was caught driving 195km/t in the freeway. (Limit is 110kmt + 70% = 186kmt)

Another story, but goes well in this thread - i was once not so long ago (months) caught driving 230+ kmt on the freeway and was able to talk my self out of it. Didn't even get a fine!

Cheers

Kaare

Posted by: g_attrill

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 15:18

Speed only display:



They don't tend to use these any more because people used to have races to see if they could get it off the scale. Some now display the speed if you are under it but frown if you go over it. Some also display your number plate eg. "Y123 ABC - 45mph".

We've had a flashing "SLOW DOWN 30" sign near our house for 15 years and it works well, much better than a speed camera and you don't get people necklacing them, or, more spectacularly, blowing them up.

Finally, the SID smiley:



This comes from a report about one that was stolen! Somebody probably thought that it had a camera attached and they had been done (and were going to get a ban due to "totting up" and going over 12 points)

Gareth
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 15:20

Some also display your number plate eg. "Y123 ABC - 45mph".
WOW, I didn't know they had systems that could do that yet. IMPRESSIVE.
Posted by: g_attrill

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 15:24

WOW, I didn't know they had systems that could do that yet. IMPRESSIVE.

Are you kidding? We have SPECS which automatically reads your number plate and records the date time. If you get to another point down the road faster than the speed limit it automagically dispatches a fine. And they put them on huge poles too high for Captain Gatso to reach :-(

Gareth
Posted by: _hardcore_

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 15:26

WOW, I didn't know they had systems that could do that yet. IMPRESSIVE.

Numberplate recognitions is relatively simple, atleast in the countries where the numberplate is reflektive, like in Denmark. We have in my company experimented with this, as we're making a surveilancecamera for taxicab driver safety. We wanted to exent the use of the camera and developed software for reading the numberplates.

Cheers

Kaare
Posted by: rob

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 15:52

WOW, I didn't know they had systems that could do that yet. IMPRESSIVE.

That's how they are able to issue 500 speeding tickets a minute on the M25 (london orbital). Of course it's not about revenue.

Rob
Posted by: andy

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 17:55

That's how they are able to issue 500 speeding tickets a minute on the M25 (london orbital).

I think you are mixing up motorways Rob. The cameras on the M25 rarely even flash as they are set at well over 90mph when the variable speed limit system is off and people don't speed much when the variable system is on. Also, I was under the impression that the cameras were traditional Gatsos, meaning that they use film rather than a digital system. Until recently I drove the camera stretch of the M25 every day.

edit: the M25 gantry cameras are normal Gatso with film

http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/gatso10.htm

There are also a lot less cameras on the M25 than people think, as only about every eighth gantry has them.

Perhaps you were thinking of the specs system on the M6 ?

Or maybe you were talking about the cameras on long term roadworks on the Heathrow section, but again I think those are normal film based gatsos.

I think the spec system is the only digital based (and hence automatic ticket issuing) speed camera system to be certified for use in the UK, but I could be wrong.
Posted by: brendanhoar

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 18:25

> On my car - 155mpg is actually about 145. Top on the
> speedo is 170 which is about 160.

155 MPG??? Damn, that's efficient. What're you driving???

-brendan
Posted by: tman

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 19:06

This site says that there are new digital based ones linked by ISDN on the M25 at various spots. No idea how accurate that site is.
Posted by: dalewoodian

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 27/02/2004 21:40

Does anybody know if this works for red light cameras?

http://www.phantomplate.com/
Posted by: andy

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 28/02/2004 02:32

This site says that there are new digital based ones linked by ISDN on the M25 at various spots.

If what it says is correct, that there are two infra red ISDN cameras then they must have their speed limit set very high. I have driven through the camera section at over 90mph on most work days over the last 4 years (I used to leave home very early to avoid the traffic).
Posted by: Roger

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 28/02/2004 04:20

Does anybody know if this works for red light cameras?

Even if it did, I think it's a criminal offence to obscure (even from cameras) your number plate in the UK.
Posted by: Daria

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 28/02/2004 09:10

Their example is a Pennsylvania plate; They show a front (of car) view, but Pennsylvania doesn't use front plates
Posted by: drakino

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 28/02/2004 12:03

Car makers deliberately make the speedos 10% higher than actual speed so as to avoid these sorts of situations.

Both my 2000 and 2002 Saturn speedometers were very accurate. I verified this with both gpsapp and my Garmin GPS V unit. If the dash showed 75, so did my GPS. And this is with the old needle based speedometer, not a electronic readout one.
Posted by: rob

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 28/02/2004 14:06

I think you are mixing up motorways Rob

Well that's wierd. There was major publicity when the variable speed limit system was introduced (or perhaps when it was extended) about the centralised computer system being able to issue 30,000 tickets an hour. It doesn't seem like that would be possible with film based gatsos. They gantry camersa don't look like regular gatso's to me..

But then, that could explain how come I've never got a ticket on all the occassions I've been running late on the way to Heathrow.

Rob
Posted by: cmtempeg

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 15/03/2004 16:45

(bump)

According to Car and Driver, discrepancies between actual speed and indicated speed is very common and quite intentional. Apparently European and sports vehicles have higher discrepancies.

Here's the article, for reference: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=1906&page_number=1
Posted by: msaeger

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 15/03/2004 16:57

My golf was off about three or four mph.
Posted by: genixia

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 15/03/2004 18:26

That article is ludicrous - getting worked up about 1 or 2 MPH. The difference between the circumference of a new 15" tyre and a tyre that's worn to the legal limit is 4%. That will translate to a speedo error. Note also that the error is likely to be worse than that anyway - the tyre is compressed at the contact patch, reducing the effective circumference and thus increasing delta C / C. And all this is supposing that your tyre is correctly sized and inflated to begin with.
Posted by: foxtrot_xray

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 15/03/2004 20:45

I dunno how I missed this post back when it was posted, but being a ... uh.. fast driver, I personally live the..


In recent months a number have been blown up with dynamite, some have been torched, while others have been cut down by aggrieved motorists.


Me.
Posted by: BryanR

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in th - 16/03/2004 11:43

(Confession: I used to work for the Transport Research Laboratory in Crowthorne, and was involved in some of the early studies on the Controlled Motorways System's effectiveness. However, the following comments are my own vague memories and shouldn't be taken to be the offical position of TRL, the Highways Agency, or anyone else who was involved in it all...)

As far as I remember, when the Controlled Motorways system was launched they had modified Gatso cameras - the modification just being that the speed limit to which they were set could be adjusted to match the variable limit signs.

The Highways Agency had to get an act through Parliament to allow the variable limit signs to be enforceable, and it wasn't until a few years later that they did the same for automated number plate recognition cameras (e.g. SPECS) - I certainly don't remember it happening before I left TRL to get a proper job (1997).

I guess the 30,000 number must have been part of the pre-launch publicity, and probably assumed a vast hoard of civil servants working around the clock to issue all the fixed-penalty notices!
Posted by: phat_slug

Re: Another European idea that wouldn't work in the US - 17/03/2004 09:09

Here in Germany those signs coming up everywhere, showing your actual speed and flashing when over limit. This is a huge 2 digit display.

Too bad the effect was, people (kids) are trying to actually tilt the display to go above 99 and see whats happening (nothing, tried myself, stops just at 99). Too bad there is normally only 50 or 30 allowed where u find these signs.

S.