Star Wars on DVD

Posted by: JeffS

Star Wars on DVD - 20/09/2004 23:11

Yup, they're changed again, and yup I bought them. They'll arrive in a week and I can't wait to sit down and watch them all back to back even if they aren't the movies of my youth.

In the list of new changes they changed the "Greedo Shoots First" so that now greedo just barely shoots first, like that's supposed to fix Han's character arc. Whatever. Anyway, in honor of that I have to post this link:
Top 10 Things that Han Shot that Didn't Shoot First
Posted by: FireFox31

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 20/09/2004 23:59

And didn't the movie theater ticket sales of Titanic still overcome all the Star Wars movies and all their rereleases (and rerereleases??)?

(yes, I do personally find that to be false because the movie industry never seems to account for inflation in ticket sales price; in this case between 1977 and 1997.)
Posted by: mschrag

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 00:05

http://www.the-movie-times.com/thrsdir/alltime.mv?adjusted+ByAG

Still Gone With the Wind when properly adjusted for inflation ...
Posted by: ricin

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 00:25

Here's a fairly in depth review with a rundown of the major changes.
Posted by: gbeer

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 00:26

Quote:
http://www.the-movie-times.com/thrsdir/alltime.mv?adjusted+ByAG

Still Gone With the Wind when properly adjusted for inflation ...


cool link. Lucas is holding 5 of the top twenty and ILM supplied the work for I don't know how many others.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 01:27

Quote:
with a rundown of the major changes.


All that bullshit they changed, and (assuming that change list is comprehensive) they still haven't fixed two of the most egregious problems, ones that were tailor-made for digital correction. 1) The too-visible "emperor's slugs" at the end of Jedi, and 2) The transparent speeder window frames in Empire.

Those were both a result of a poorly-managed telecine transfer overexposing an optically-composited image. You'd think they'd be the first on the list to be re-composited digitally, along with all the other stuff they were re-compositing.
Posted by: drakino

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 01:31

Quote:
2) The transparent speeder window frames in Empire.

They fixed that in the older Special Edition rerelease. I remember doing a video editing project at the time and including why it happened in the first place.
Posted by: ricin

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 01:32

Quote:
...(assuming that change list is comprehensive)...


I don't believe it is. It's just some of the more recognizable changes. It says at the top:

Here are a few examples of the major differences between the 1997 Special Editions of the Star Wars films and the new 2004 DVD Editions. This doesn't include minor changes and sound mix changes.
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 02:21

They've since retconned the Emperor's slugs, IIRC, in some of the novels as being something to do with his Force powers, like some physical manifestation or creatures that feed on his emanations or some such bullshit.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 02:45

Oh you've got to be kidding me. Altering the canon to cover up a telecine transfer error?
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 02:48

Quote:
I don't believe it is. It's just some of the more recognizable changes.


Well, we can hope they fixed that stuff up, then. If so, I could almost stomach all the Greedo changes and the Han-steps-on-Jabba bit.
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 02:59

First, I could be totally wrong. I could swear I remember this, though, from one of the fairly few SW novels I've read.

Second, you have to keep in mind that most of the Star Wars fans out there never saw RotJ on the big screen, but only on video, and all of those video transfers have had the slugs. Even those of us who did see it on the big screen have seen it many more times, and obviously much more recently, on those same video transfers.

Third, if they did retcon those slugs into canon, then that would explain why they left them there in the Special Edition. Of course, my preferred reason for that is that they ran out of time and just didn't get to it.

I also seem to remember that they were there on the big screen Special Edition RotJ, and there wouldn't have been any telecine action there at all. Of course, there could be similar errors from when they scanned the entire film into the computer. I don't know if a telecine-like device would be used there or not.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 04:57

Quote:
I also seem to remember that they were there on the big screen Special Edition RotJ, and there wouldn't have been any telecine action there at all. Of course, there could be similar errors from when they scanned the entire film into the computer. I don't know if a telecine-like device would be used there or not.


That's exactly what happened in the big-screen ROTJ SE... The whole film was remastered digitally, but the transfer from the negatives (whether it was actually via telecine or laser-scan) had the problems of showing the composites much worse than the original theatrical release.
Posted by: Cybjorg

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 12:15

What? They didn't Photoshop out all of the '70's-era sideburns from A New Hope in an attempt to bring it up to speed?
Posted by: loren

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 14:02

We get our copies of the DVD and THX 1138 today, as soon as i get my ass to work. We already saw a bit of the bonus disc and it's pretty damn awesome. The documentary that is. Really well done and reveals a lot of stuff I never knew. If I remember correctly, they interview 40 people from Star Wars.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/20/film.qa.george.lucas.ap/index.html

That is a link to an interview with George on why he did the changes he did. May shed some light on it for those pissed that he tinkered with their beloved. I guess it's somewhat settling to know he has a shred of artistic integrity left. Heh.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 14:28

Quote:
We already saw a bit of the bonus disc and it's pretty damn awesome. The documentary that is. Really well done and reveals a lot of stuff I never knew.


Was that "Empire of Dreams"? If so, they showed it on A&E last week. Very cool.

My favorite comments were the ones by Carrie Fisher:

"We used to tell him, 'you can type this stuff, George, but you can't say it."

"You're not famous until you're a Pez dispenser."

"They said they'd give me the role under the condition that I went to a fat-farm and lost ten pounds. I guess they were thinking it'd come out five here, and five here." <gesturing at her cheeks>

It was also interesting seeing the casting footage of Kurt Russel reading for Han, and Cindy Williams reading for Leia.
Posted by: DLF

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 14:52

Quote:
blah blah blah
... I guess it's somewhat settling to know he has a shred of artistic integrity left. Heh.

I beg to differ. All his choices seem driven entirely by greed. He seems to have disdain not only for fans' opinions (in an unabashedly fan-oriented genre), but for his own legacy as well.

Let's just say that I've long-since given up on Lucas. But that's just one ex-fan's opinion, of course.

Edit: Stop it with the top-posting!
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 14:56

Quote:
It was also interesting seeing the casting footage of Kurt Russel reading for Han, and Cindy Williams reading for Leia.

Who were both terrible. However, William Katt reading for Luke was quite good.
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 15:03

Quote:
All his choices seem driven entirely by greed.

Well, not all of them. If that were the case, he'd have released two sets, one with the SE and another with the originals. That would get people like me to buy them (who won't now -- I've got my LaserDisc copies, thanks) and cause others to buy both sets.

I think in many cases, he's really making artistic decisions; it's just that in almost every case, it's the wrong one.
Posted by: DLF

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 15:17

Funny you should mention the Laserdiscs: his oft-mentioned reasoning for delaying the release of the DVDs for 7.5 years was "I got burned on the Laserdiscs, and I'm not letting that happen again." I can agree with you that his artistic instincts have proven to be as unfortunate for his many fans as his business-driven ones.
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 15:22

Quote:
That is a link to an interview with George on why he did the changes he did. May shed some light on it for those pissed that he tinkered with their beloved. I guess it's somewhat settling to know he has a shred of artistic integrity left. Heh.

I understand every change he made except the Greedo thing. In all honesty, I think Jedi's SE is better, largely because they cut out so much of the Ewok party scene at the end.

However, the Greedo thing is egregious and does not fit with his "this is the movie I would have made if I was able" argument. First, he certainly had the technology to make Greedo's pistol work back in the 70s. Everyone else's pistol worked. Second, he obviously did not frame the scene for Greedo to shoot and miss. If he had, he wouldn't have put Greedo two feet away from Han, making the pistol misfire so badly as to have the beam come out of it at a 30 degree angle so it would miss. Hell, he could have done something as simple as having someone bump into Greedo's chair. Third, it still ruins Han's character in the first movie. He was an absolute scoundrel. We had no inclination that he'd come back at the end to save Luke. This makes him seem like a much better person from the get-go.

Now, that doesn't mean that I don't have complaints about the rest of the stuff that was added. It was obviously rushed for one thing. The new animations on Tatooine are stiff and awkward. They didn't correct obvious things, like the Emperor's slugs and the transparent snowspeeders. Also, there was a lot more abject silliness, like stepping on Jabba's tail.

I suspect that the reason that his whole attitude about the films changed between Empire and Jedi is that he had kids. All of a sudden it had to be all about entertaining children instead of making an entertaining movie that could be appreciated by children. It's like the difference between Warner Brothers Looney Tunes cartoons and the terrible kids-only cartoons they make these days.
Posted by: loren

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 15:31

Quote:
Was that "Empire of Dreams"? If so, they showed it on A&E last week. Very cool.


Yes, PLUS another hour of footage apparently.

As for the rest of it, believe me, i'll be the last one to defend Lucas. I'm getting laid off in 2 weeks after all. hah!
Posted by: pgrzelak

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 15:34

OUCH! That was the first I read about that. Sorry about that...
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 15:35

I thought he'd posted on the BBS about it before?
Posted by: Cybjorg

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 15:42

Yeah, I didn't know about that one either. Sucks.
Posted by: pgrzelak

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 15:44

I probably missed it - my reading has been a bit erratic lately.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 15:45

Either that, or I'm recalling private conversations we had and thinking they were on the BBS.
Posted by: Cybjorg

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 15:51

Probably the most egregious change (aside from Greedo shooting first) has to be the replacement of Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's ghost with that of Hayden Christiansen. Ugh. I'm surprised that they didn't replace Alec Guinness with Ewan McGregor while they were at it.
Posted by: loren

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 16:03

Quote:
OUCH! That was the first I read about that. Sorry about that...

Actually i'm not sure if i had mentioned it. I think i mentioned that there was a big round of layoffs, but i wasn't in that one. This is the end all be all of layoffs... 4/5 of the company is gone. Lucasarts is starting over from close to scratch, new structure and all. Don't go passing that on to any game forums, i probably shouldn't even be posting it. Thanks for the condolences.

Anyhow... i'll probably start another thread about it soon so as not to muck this one up. I might be needing some life advice from you old timers
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 16:04

Actually, if they'd done Hayden and Ewan, it would have made sense. But just doing one of them is odd.
Posted by: JeffS

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 16:34

Quote:
I understand every change he made except the Greedo thing.
Yes. My feelings exactly.
Quote:
However, the Greedo thing is egregious and does not fit with his "this is the movie I would have made if I was able" argument.
Once again, exactly my thoughts. In fact I'll second your entire post.
Posted by: msaeger

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 19:49

Quote:
This is the end all be all of layoffs... 4/5 of the company is gone. Lucasarts is starting over from close to scratch, new structure and all. Don't go passing that on to any game forums, i probably shouldn't even be posting it. Thanks for the condolences.


I heard something about that someplace yesterday (I think it was Xplay on techtv) They said Lucasarts wouldn't be doing anymore games internally ?
Posted by: loren

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 21/09/2004 19:59

Quote:
They said Lucasarts wouldn't be doing anymore games internally

Not true, they definitely will be. We've been hearing some funny ones lately. The best being that Lucas is outsourcing all of the animation and effects to his new Singapore studio. Nope.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 22/09/2004 21:18

So... I haven't seen the DVDs yet, probably won't actually buy them until Christmas-ish. Anyone able to report whether the Emperor's slugs are fixed or not?
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 22/09/2004 21:20

Also, something I whipped up today. Source "to the tune of" should become obvious very quickly:








(Told from the point of view of a project manager at
a certain little company in San Rafael, CA, sometime
in the mid-1990's...)




"My vision was too big for its time," he said to me,
"there were too many limits technologically.
I've got this burning need to fix my trilogy.
There must be... fifty ways to change my movie."

I said, "I don't think that's a good idea, dude.
Furthermore, all of your loyal fans will think they're getting screwed.
But I'll concede your point, 'cause clearly no one disagrees with *you*,
there must be... fifty ways to change your movie.
Fifty ways to change your movie."


(Chorus:)

Ya just clean up the mattes, Pat
Make a new song, John
Then add some more bots, Dot
Just do as I say

Speeder gets fixed, Dix
I think we need a new sound mix!
Add a launch bay, Kay
Just do it my way



Ooo, step on his tail, Gail
Max Rebo's new band, Stan
Add Blue to Artoo, Stu
Don't ask yourself why

Add a new slave, Dave
The planets need a new shockwave!
More ships in the sky, Sly
Kiss the old films goodbye


I said, "those changes are too goofy and arcane.
And I must say... showing Greedo shooting first is just insane."
He said, "You're wrong about that... Han can't seem inhumane,
at least not nowadays."

And then he ordered me to start the work that night.
I suppose it could be worse, he could remake them all outright.
And though it's too bad... ILM can't fix the fact that he can't *write*,
I guess there's... fifty ways to change the movie.
Fifty ways to change the movie.


(Chorus)
Posted by: pgrzelak

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 22/09/2004 21:28

*applause!!!*
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 22/09/2004 21:41

Aw, thanks.
Posted by: trs24

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 23/09/2004 14:03

So has anyone seen the new DVD trilogy, now? If so, how did you like the changes?

CNN has an article on some of the changes.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 23/09/2004 15:38


heh.
Posted by: ashmoore

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 23/09/2004 16:15

I am sorry to admit that I had this on preorder at buy.com since the announcement
Only got to half way through Empire so far.
Overall the quality of the image and sound is really good.
As for the mods specifically, most of them have a much more 'connected' feel to them. Especially compared to the original re-release if you can call it that.
But even now, some of the added beasts etc still look fake. I suppose the better quality of the DVD allows you to see some of the things that the VCR would hide.
Having seen these movies so many times you can see so much more in every scene, even for the untouched ones.
I will get to Jedi this weekend.
Posted by: JeffS

Re: Star Wars on DVD - 23/09/2004 20:55

Just received mine and watched the first little bit. I'd say the enhancements are a definite improvement over the first set, though the Greedo scene is still stupid both for the plot and the fact that Greedo can't shoot. Han now shifts over a millimeter which I suppose is sposed to make him a more difficult target to hit, but come on! And Han still steps on Jabba's tail, though I must admit Jabba looks much more realistic now. That goes for just about all of the added graphics so far. They are far more seemless and less distracting in these versions.

So I'm relatively pleased. Now that I'm through my two least favorite additions it should be clear sailing until Anakin's ghost shows up.

Oh, and of course it looks and sounds great (through my headphones). Unfortuntly I don't have a great sound system so I'll have to wait until this weekend to really test out the 5.1 on my friend's setup. I have little doubt it will be an awesome experience.