Posted by: pgrzelak
Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 09:22
Just kidding... 
Can we start the Ohio jokes now?
Posted by: Laura
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 09:47
I'm trying to move out of the state, so you have my permission
Posted by: ninti
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 10:22
Not really finding any humor in any of this, sorry.
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 10:52
The election itself, the projected results, Ohio's close race and state laws about contingency voting, or another factor? I meant no disrespect, other than I hope this does not get settled in the courts or go through torturous recount proceedings.
All I know for certain is that no one I voted for in the state and local polls won and the media had my state certified and closed within moments of the polls closing.
All I know for certain is that no one I voted for in the state and local polls won and the media had my state certified and closed within moments of the polls closing.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 11:07
I don't think there's a serious danger of the matter being decided at court again. As I more or less expected outcome like this, I am not too disapointed (by the presidential race, that is; Republicans strengthening their possition in the Congress and particulars of anti-gay legislation sweep cought me by surprise).
But if mirracle happens and those provisonal ballots are indeed mostly in Kerry's favor, he would win being about 3% behind in popular vote. Now, that would be ironic!
But if mirracle happens and those provisonal ballots are indeed mostly in Kerry's favor, he would win being about 3% behind in popular vote. Now, that would be ironic!
Posted by: Ezekiel
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 11:25
Why would that be ironic? The last four presidents have won with less than 50% of the popular vote.
Don't blame me, btw, I carried NH for Kerry!
-Zeke
Don't blame me, btw, I carried NH for Kerry!
-Zeke
Posted by: phi144
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 11:56
No, that was me.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 11:59
Quote:
Why would that be ironic? The last four presidents have won with less than 50% of the popular vote
Yes (so, in more conventional electoral systems would go for a run-off), but only Bush won with less votes than the main competitor, IIRC (I Googled only for 1996: Clinton 50%, Dole 42%, Perot 8%).
Quote:
Don't blame me, btw, I carried NH for Kerry!
Ah, the civilized states (North East and West Coast) were never the problem, (though, Californians did elect a pretty strange governor).
Posted by: blitz
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 13:46
Dear John,
AMF.
AMF.
Posted by: jimhogan
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:07
I am not by any means sure, but there *might* be a lesson in this for the Guardian.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:11
According to the latest Ohio numbers (from cspan.org), I see this:
Bush: 2,794,346
Kerry: 2,658,125
That's a difference of about 150K votes. We're told there are about 250K uncounted provisional ballots. On the radio this morning, they were saying that Kerry needed 90% of the provisional ballots, but, at least these numbers seem to dispute that. It's hard to know what the demographics are of the provisional ballots, but if (for the sake of argument), they're first-time voters, then we may have a real race on our hands, as I've read that about 60% of new registered voters are Democrats.
As Yogi Berra once famously said, "it ain't over until it's over." Expect to see all kinds of lawsuits over the situation in Ohio. Also, there appears to be a statistically significant difference between Florida exit polls (that had Kerry +1%) and the Florida election results (Bush +5%). This may be indicative of more serious problems in Florida as well.
Bush: 2,794,346
Kerry: 2,658,125
That's a difference of about 150K votes. We're told there are about 250K uncounted provisional ballots. On the radio this morning, they were saying that Kerry needed 90% of the provisional ballots, but, at least these numbers seem to dispute that. It's hard to know what the demographics are of the provisional ballots, but if (for the sake of argument), they're first-time voters, then we may have a real race on our hands, as I've read that about 60% of new registered voters are Democrats.
As Yogi Berra once famously said, "it ain't over until it's over." Expect to see all kinds of lawsuits over the situation in Ohio. Also, there appears to be a statistically significant difference between Florida exit polls (that had Kerry +1%) and the Florida election results (Bush +5%). This may be indicative of more serious problems in Florida as well.
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:12
Quote:
AMF
?
Posted by: blitz
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:13
Fox News is reporting that Kerry has called Bush to concede.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:14
"Adios, motherfucker." Pleasant, aren't they?
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:17
Likewise, the NY Times front page now says:
Quote:
NEWS ALERT
Associated Press and CNN Report That Senator Kerry Has Called President Bush to Concede the Race (11:12 AM ET)
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:18
Hmm, so you think not all is necessarily lost yet, then? Well, that will make for an interesting 11 days! Dubya seems to be celebrating, anyway... 
Posted by: jmwking
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:25
Quote:
Also, there appears to be a statistically significant difference between Florida exit polls (that had Kerry +1%) and the Florida election results (Bush +5%). This may be indicative of more serious problems in Florida as well.
Or people lie to exit polls (and polls in general). I've suspected this for a while now. I don't know if they're trying to confound the system or are embarassed of their vote. (Of course, one of the newspaper sites which requires registration thinks I'm a 103 year old woman!
)-jk
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:28
Sigh....
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:49
Quote:
NEWS ALERT
Associated Press and CNN Report That Senator Kerry Has Called President Bush to Concede the Race (11:12 AM ET)
OK, I retract my hasty guess that no courts will be involved
Speeking of courts:
When Chief justice Rehnquist became incapacitated due to tumor therapy leaving the court with four 'liberals' and four 'conservatives', vitually all news outlets predicted 4-4 tie if an election-related lawsuit percolates this high (as it likely would). Does that mean that all pretense at hope that Supreme Court decides according to law, and not party or ideological affiliation is abandoned?
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 14:58
Posted by: jimhogan
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 15:01
Quote:
Does that mean that all pretense at hope that Supreme Court decides according to law, and not party or ideological affiliation is abandoned?
Bonzi,
(I know that you are an idealist, and I try to handle idealists with kid gloves. I mean, there aren't many left....and my proposal to enact an "World-Hugger Endangered Idealist Act" isn't getting much play among the many political bodies to which I have suggested it. Sooooo, please scroll down with caution: )
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Yes.
Posted by: Ezekiel
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 15:03
<<SIGH>> Well, back to work then. At least the Sox won.
-Zeke
-Zeke
Posted by: bonzi
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 15:06
I don't know which emoticon to put here....
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 15:51
Quote:
Kerry concedes
So what happens if the Ohio absentee ballots come in and Kerry wins the state? Seems stupid to me to concede at this point. I'm not saying it's likely to happen, but it could.
Maybe Kerry would win but be accused of being a flip-flopper yet again.
Posted by: tonyc
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 15:54
Quote:
but it could.
I'll have what he's having.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 16:05
If you want to be technical about it, concession speeches have no legal meaning. When Ohio finishes its tally of the provisional ballots, there could well be a surprise. The odds are strongly against it.
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 16:13
From the articles I have been reading, Kerry's advisors are the ones that recommended he concede. If they thought there was a likelihood that he could win, they would not have recommended this. Also, I believe that they were trying to avoid any actions that would further divide the country or alienate voters.
Posted by: genixia
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 16:30
Quote:
I'm trying to move out of the state, so you have my permission
Hey, you don't get out of it that easy! I trust that you'll actually vote in Indiana next time around?
Posted by: Daria
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 16:34
One almost wonders if we should be 2 (or 3) countries instead of one. Sigh. This really wouldn't be so bad if it was just the election and not instead so many people hating each other.
Posted by: time
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 16:36
Quote:
All I know for certain is that no one I voted for in the state and local polls won and the media had my state certified and closed within moments of the polls closing.
Living in Oregon, this is a trend I've become very accustomed see played out election after election. I suppose it could be worse: we could live in AK or HI...
Posted by: Jerz
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 17:02
Quote:
This really wouldn't be so bad if it was just the election and not instead so many people hating each other.
Hate each other? I have plenty of friends and relatives that are bleading heart liberals and we don't hate each other... And if Kerry would have won would this 'hate' subside? It almost sounds like your saying the Democrats 'hate' the Republicans because Bush won but the Republicans would not 'hate' the Dems if the situation were flip flopped... *very* strange in my opinion. So who is *really* doing the 'hating'?
Posted by: Daria
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 17:06
Quote:Quote:
This really wouldn't be so bad if it was just the election and not instead so many people hating each other.
Hate each other? I have plenty of friends and relatives that are bleading heart liberals and we don't hate each other...
Sure. there's no one I hate, and really I can't think of anyone who hates me (at least for anything having to do with this). But it's easy to look at the images of the rallies from a few days ago and see the hatred on the front lines.
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And if Kerry would have won would this 'hate' subside?
I doubt it.
Quote:
It almost sounds like your saying the Democrats 'hate' the Republicans because Bush won but the Republicans would not 'hate' the Dems if the situation were flip flopped... *very* strange in my opinion.
Using only what I said, justify that.
Quote:
So who is *really* doing the 'hating'?
People. Maybe animals, but I don't understand them. Mostly people.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 20:02
Posted by: Laura
Re: Can we start the Ohio jokes now? - 03/11/2004 21:17
Yes, I will. I'm really sorry now that I didn't this year since the presidential race was so close and another damn school tax levy got passed here 