Warning to AOL IM users...

Warning to AOL IM users... - 14/03/2005 00:06

Check this story out.... I wonder if they'll change their policy if enough people make a stink about this..

Quote:
The revamped terms of service, which apply only to users who downloaded the free AIM software on or after Feb. 5, 2004, gives AOL the right to "reproduce, display, perform, distribute, adapt and promote" all content distributed across the chat network by users.

"You waive any right to privacy. You waive any right to inspect or approve uses of the content or to be compensated for any such uses," according to the AIM terms-of-service.

Posted by: David

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 14/03/2005 08:32

This sounds like when Microsoft had similar terms for passport that lead many to think they wanted to claim ownership of all your email (they probably did).

Posted by: RobotCaleb

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 14/03/2005 15:08

This applies only to their forums.

Posted by: webroach

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 14/03/2005 18:03

Also, people may want to note that since AIM uses ROT-26 encryption, pretty much anyone can "reproduce, display, perform, distribute, adapt and promote" anything you transmit over it.

Posted by: TerryMathews

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 02:12

I'm curious as to why you think they shouldn't be entitled to exactly that? Your using their software, over their data network, and paying nothing to do it.

What ever happened to people understanding "Nothing's free"?

Posted by: mlord

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 02:56

Quote:
What ever happened to people understanding "Nothing's free"?

Err, I don't recall anyone disputing that point (?). But some things are private, even when they're not free. Like telephone conversations, surface/air mail, sex (in the flesh), SMS (aka. "text-messaging"), etc..

Most users would expect IM to fall into that category.

Cheers

Posted by: SonicSnoop

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 03:56

I really dont know how secure it is, but I use trillian for my IM'n and for aim it has a SecureIM feature for communicating with other trillian users.

Posted by: canuckInOR

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 03:58

Quote:
Quote:
What ever happened to people understanding "Nothing's free"?

Err, I don't recall anyone disputing that point (?). But some things are private, even when they're not free. Like telephone conversations, surface/air mail, sex (in the flesh), SMS (aka. "text-messaging"), etc...

Most users would expect IM to fall into that category.

Of course, given that IM happens on a public network, one might think that users ought to expect it to be in the same category as having a cellphone conversation in restaurant, sending a post-card, sex (in the flesh -- in a park), etc, which are also free and non-private (although the sex involves privates, and may not be free if one needs to visit the doctor, because one doesn't know what poison oak/ivy looks like).

Posted by: Ezekiel

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 12:26

Quote:
(although the sex involves privates, and may not be free if one needs to visit the doctor, because one doesn't know what poison oak/ivy looks like)

Hmm, that sounds a bit autobiographical...

-Zeke

Posted by: TerryMathews

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 17:23

Quote:

Quote:
What ever happened to people understanding "Nothing's free"?

Err, I don't recall anyone disputing that point (?). But some things are private, even when they're not free. Like telephone conversations, surface/air mail, sex (in the flesh), SMS (aka. "text-messaging"), etc..

Most users would expect IM to fall into that category.

Most AIM users are idiots too. To have an expectation of privacy over AOL's network is absurd. It's like going to a friend's house and expecting that he won't see or hear anything you do.

Posted by: mlord

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 17:34

Well, as it turns out.. in today's news: apparently AOL agrees with the idea that private IMs should remain mostly private.

Posted by: RobotCaleb

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 18:30

they did not intend to monitor IM conversations. it applied to their forums. they didnt do a 180 and suddenly agree on the privacy of IM conversation.

Posted by: drakino

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 19:20

Quote:
I really dont know how secure it is, but I use trillian for my IM'n and for aim it has a SecureIM feature for communicating with other trillian users.

It's vunerable to a man in the middle attack. And since AOL could be the man in the middle with all messages going through their servers, it's not overly secure. And of course encrypted IM is a joke anyhow. The 3rd party clients need to start working togther on one secure standard, not one that on;y sees implementation in a program.

Posted by: TerryMathews

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 19:25

Quote:
Well, as it turns out.. in today's news: apparently AOL agrees with the idea that private IMs should remain mostly private.

Say what you want, but I still contend that you have no reasonable expectation of privacy v. AOL while communicating on their network. If you were paying for service, maybe. But by simple contact law, you have no agreement with AOL because no money has changed hands between you and AOL.

Posted by: canuckInOR

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 20:32

Quote:

Quote:
(although the sex involves privates, and may not be free if one needs to visit the doctor, because one doesn't know what poison oak/ivy looks like)

Hmm, that sounds a bit autobiographical...

Fortunately, no. Just a random tidbit that sounded funny. Besides... I'm smart enough to carry a blanket.

Posted by: mlord

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 21:07

Quote:
because no money has changed hands

How very USAian!

Posted by: webroach

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 15/03/2005 23:26

Quote:
Quote:
because no money has changed hands

How very USAian!

Not to mention showing a decided lack of understanding when it comes to contract law.

Posted by: TerryMathews

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 16/03/2005 01:04

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
because no money has changed hands

How very USAian!

Not to mention showing a decided lack of understanding when it comes to contract law.

If you say so, but they disagree. Money isn't the only possible consideration, as promises or services can also be considerations in a contract.

The true question is, for there to be a valid contract between a user and AOL, the user would have to give something back to AOL. They provide the client software and data network. What do you provide? I don't exactly think "using their service" counts as a consideration.

Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Warning to AOL IM users... - 16/03/2005 14:23

That would apparently be Australian law. The US Uniform Commercial Code states that a purchase "includes taking by sale, discount, negotiation, mortgage, pledge, lien, issue or re-issue, gift or any other voluntary transaction creating an interest in property." (Emphasis mine.)