Comments on new Dell PC wanted...
Posted by: jbauer
Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 18:01
Hey Guys/Gals,
Comments welcome. Am considering the following:
Dimension 9100
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Pentium® D Processor 820 with Dual Core Technology (2.80GHz, 800FSB)
Options are:
Pentium® 4 Processor 630 with HT Technology (3GHz, 800FSB) [subtract $100]
Pentium® D Processor 830 with Dual Core Technology (3GHz, 800FSB) [add $170 or $5/month1]
Pentium® D Processor 840 with Dual Core Technology (3.20GHz, 800FSB) [add $410 or $11/month1]
Which would be better to get, the 630 or the 820?
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1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
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Dell USB Keyboard
Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Those are probably crap, but I have ones I use anyways.
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250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
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Single Drive: 48x CD-ROM Drive (gonna trash that)
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128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X300 SE HyperMemory (gonna trash this and get either the 6600 GT or the 6800 GT)
They DO offer the 256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) nVidia GeForce 6800 [add $180 or $5/month1] but I don't think it's a good deal... comments?
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Sound Blaster® Live! 24-bit ADVANCED HD™ Audio
or should I just stick with Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio [subtract $29]
or Sound Blaster Audigy™2 ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394 [add $51 or $1/month1]
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Thoughts?
- Jon
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 18:55
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Which would be better to get, the 630 or the 820?
Ignoring price, I'd say the 820. You effectively get two complete CPUs, albeit both of them being somewhat slower, as opposed to a slightly faster processor that pretends to be two CPUs that helps out sometimes with two processes that aren't similar. As to whether that's worth $100 I don't know.
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1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
Don't buy extra RAM from the Dell configurator. You can get it much cheaper elsewhere. In fact, you can get it cheaper from Dell if you buy it separately, but I'd just get it from somewhere else anyway.
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256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) nVidia GeForce 6800 [add $180
The cheapest I see a 256MB 6800 for is $270, but you have to give back the 128MB X300 SE, which I see for $48. I don't know. Sounds like a decent deal to me if you like the card: $180 for something you probably couldn't otherwise get for less than $222.
I don't know what to tell you about sound cards. They all suck, integrated ones slightly moreso.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 19:07
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Which would be better to get, the 630 or the 820?
Ignoring price, I'd say the 820. You effectively get two complete CPUs, albeit both of them being somewhat slower, as opposed to a slightly faster processor that pretends to be two CPUs that helps out sometimes with two processes that aren't similar. As to whether that's worth $100 I don't know.
Ok, Cool.
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1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
Don't buy extra RAM from the Dell configurator. You can get it much cheaper elsewhere. In fact, you can get it cheaper from Dell if you buy it separately, but I'd just get it from somewhere else anyway.
Hm. Where do you get it cheaper? I tried Crucial, but that isn't. Where do you get quality memory for a good deal?
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256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) nVidia GeForce 6800 [add $180
The cheapest I see a 256MB 6800 for is $270, but you have to give back the 128MB X300 SE, which I see for $48. I don't know. Sounds like a decent deal to me if you like the card: $180 for something you probably couldn't otherwise get for less than $222.
I've read that the way to go is either the 6600 GT or the 6800 GT. I thought that getting the x300 SE and selling it, and then buying a 6600 GT or 6800 GT would be the way to go. Are you saying that you'd stick with the 6800 (non GT model)?
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I don't know what to tell you about sound cards. They all suck, integrated ones slightly moreso.
Yeah, think I'll go with the Live.
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 19:42
I'm very happy with the performance of the 6800 GT on my home system. Not happy with bugs in Nvidia's drivers*, but hey, you can't win them all.
*= The latest one, in their latest drivers, is that the video overlay gamma control is scrod. Your DVD playback is all screwed up and can only be set to 3x gamma or 0.50 gamma, nothing in between. Even if you never touched the gamma before, it's all messed up the first time you try to play a video file or DVD. You have to go into the control panel select "Advanced Mode" for the gamma control to work, and at that point it's set properly by default. SIGH.
This happened when I tried to watch the final Doctor Who. Turn it on and all the colors are screwed up. Fortunately I figured out the work-around within 5 minutes when I recognized the problem I was seeing on the screen.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 19:49
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Hm. Where do you get it cheaper? I tried Crucial, but that isn't. Where do you get quality memory for a good deal?
Crucial.com has a nice search engine to help you figure out the correct RAM module for your computer. Once you know that, go to ZipZoomFly.com or your other favorite vendor (NewEgg, CDW, whatever) and look for the same thing. In the case of the IBM/Lenovo tablet that I'm looking to get, I can get a 1GB memory card from ZipZoomFly for barely more than a 512MB card from IBM/Lenovo.
Posted by: matthew_k
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 20:13
See my helpful thread
Where to buy memory other than Crucial?. It also explains why I won't use Crucial anymore.
Matthew
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 20:24
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I've read that the way to go is either the 6600 GT or the 6800 GT.
Sorry. I was just talking about the price on that score. I have no information about video cards these days. That one's just completely passed me by.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 20:39
To be specific in this case, Dell is charging you $130 to upgrade from 512MB to 1GB. On NewEgg, you can get 1GB with the same specs from quality manufacturers for less than $100 (Kingston ValueRAM, since that's been mentioned, for $105). That's well less than half price.
Dell themselves will sell you that 1GB of memory separately for $130. That's half price. Basically, that means that they're charging you $65 to plug the additional stick onto the motherboard.
If you want the least price and hassle, order that additional 512MB stick from Dell separately. That way you don't have to deal with reselling the other stick or another retailer. I don't know enough about DDR2 memory to tell you if having matched memory modules is better.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 20:52
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To be specific in this case, Dell is charging you $130 to upgrade from 512MB to 1GB. On NewEgg, you can get 1GB with the same specs from quality manufacturers for less than $100 (Kingston ValueRAM, since that's been mentioned, for $105). That's well less than half price.
Dell themselves will sell you that 1GB of memory separately for $130. That's half price. Basically, that means that they're charging you $65 to plug the additional stick onto the motherboard.
If you want the least price and hassle, order that additional 512MB stick from Dell separately. That way you don't have to deal with reselling the other stick or another retailer. I don't know enough about DDR2 memory to tell you if having matched memory modules is better.
Hm. I believe that the 512 MB that comes with the Dell 9100 is 2 DIMMs. If I order another 512 MB, wouldn't that be 2 more DIMM chips? If I order 1 GB, I'd get 2 512 MB DIMMs, right?
So I could install 4 256 MB chips to make 1 GB, is that what you are suggesting? Is there any downside to having more chips?
Sorry, these are newbie questions, but it's been years since I worried about buying a new PC. Thusly, I need a new PC... :-)
- Jon
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 21:16
It looks like these are my choices...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLis...evalue=521:8080
The Wintek has heat spreaders. Is that good to have? Should I just get this? How does Wintek compare with Kingston or Patriot or whatever???
- Thanx
- Jon
fixed the link -wfaulk
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 22:01
That's a good question. The 512 I was looking at was a single stick, but the 512 preinstalled might be two. I don't know if that would work or not. Four 256s would work (assuming there are four DIMM slots). The only drawback with that is that it makes it harder to add more memory in the future.
Regardless, even if you bought 1GB from NewEgg and threw the preinstalled memory away, you'd still be doing better than getting the memory upgrade from the Dell Configurator.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 22:03
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That's a good question. The 512 I was looking at was a single stick, but the 512 preinstalled might be two. I don't know if that would work or not. Four 256s would work (assuming there are four DIMM slots). The only drawback with that is that it makes it harder to add more memory in the future.
Regardless, even if you bought 1GB from NewEgg and threw the preinstalled memory away, you'd still be doing better than getting the memory upgrade from the Dell Configurator.
I bought the Wintek from Newegg. 105.71 delivered. Anyone wanna buy 512 mb of RAM? Unused!
Unless I can use 2 DIMMs of 256 and 2 DIMMs of 512...
- Jon
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 22:05
Sorry. I'm not up on my memory manufacturers. Kingston isn't going anywhere and I've gotten some Corsair memory in the past (lets say they honor their lifetime warranty very well and leave it at that). Otherwise I have no knowledge at all.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 06/07/2005 22:14
Here's the
service manual for the Dimension 9100. It says DIMMs must be installed in pairs, so I assume that it will come with 2 256MB modules. It has four slots, so I see no reason you couldn't just slap in the two new 512MB ones and have 1.5GB total.
Interesting:
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NOTE: Memory purchased from Dell is covered under your computer warranty.
So your new memory is warranted longer than the memory you got (and the ones you would have gotten) from Dell.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 20/07/2005 23:57
Damn it. I bought the BFG 6800 GT and just found out that the max resolution for the DVI is 1600x1200. The 2405FPW has a native resolution of 1920x1200!
ARGH!
- Jon
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 00:41
Really? Where are you seeing this? Is this just what you're seeing in Windows in the display settings? Because that would mean it's only showing resolutions your monitor supports.
I'm looking at that card on Newegg, and I'm pretty sure it'll support that resolution (as I would expect a $350 card to do).
This is the card you have, right? That page claims it supports up to 2048x1536 at 85Hz.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 00:48
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Really? Where are you seeing this? Is this just what you're seeing in Windows in the display settings? Because that would mean it's only showing resolutions your monitor supports.
I'm looking at that card on Newegg, and I'm pretty sure it'll support that resolution (as I would expect a $350 card to do). This is the card you have, right? That page claims it supports up to 2048x1536 at 85Hz.
Yes, that's the card, but see this: http://www.bfgtech.com/faq.html
This is the part that bit me:
Q. Is there a maximum resolution for the DVI output?
A. Yes, it is 1600x1200.
I confirmed this with a tech at BFG as well.
I'm so upset. Dignan, can I call you to discuss? I have some big choices to make now...
If I can call, please pm me your #.
- Thanx
- Jon
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 01:40
Ok, after much discussion with BFG, and searching like a madman, I found a thread that seems have at least one person's experience with my dilemna...
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1027363712&highlight=bfg+6800#post1027363712
BFG says that it MAY work, but that I'm pushing the limits of the DVI port at 1920x1600.
I THINK I can get 1920x1600 working for Windows, but now my concern is games.
I currently have the Samsung 213t which is native resolution of 1600x1200. If I run games on the 2405FPW at 1600x1200 (downsampled?) will I have the same kind of quality as on the Samsung?
In other words, I really want to have a good HL2 experience, and if the Samsung will do it better, I'll sell the Dell...
Any opinions? Should I just try it and "shut the f up?"
- Jon
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 14:36
I'm confused, that thread you linked (more specifically that post) was a post where someone replied to a person like you, who was awaiting the 2405 and wondering about the resolution stated in the BFG FAQ (was this actually you?). The person's reply is that they have the exact same card and they can display 1920x1200 without any problems. Am I missing something?
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Yup. I have the same card and was able to select 1920X1200 over DVI without making any modifications. I was pleasantly surprised.
If you'd like, you can still give me a call to talk about it, though the only time I'll have tonight is between 6 and 7:30PM EST.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 14:40
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I'm confused, that thread you linked (more specifically that post) was a post where someone replied to a person like you, who was awaiting the 2405 and wondering about the resolution stated in the BFG FAQ (was this actually you?). The person's reply is that they have the exact same card and they can display 1920x1200 without any problems. Am I missing something?
Right, so they are saying that they can go to 1920x1200 even though the BFG site says that the max res is 1600x1200...
My question now is that I'm trying to figure out if I'm better off running games (most run at 1600x1200, right?) on a monitor that has a native resolution of 1920x1200 or if I'm better off keeping my Samsung 213t which has a native resolution of 1600x1200...
Will the downsizing for games be terrible or do other people do that with good results?
Am I making sense?
- Jon
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 14:55
Ahhh, okay. I understand. Well, not being the biggest gamer, I'm really not sure. Many games these days have widescreen resolutions in addition to the regular 4:3. That's the main issue. I tested with Max Payne 2 because I knew it supported 1920x1200. I haven't checked HL2 because I rarely play it (I get sick after 5 minutes of playtime - seriously). Check the setup options in HL2. I think games usually show all possible resolutions for that game, and not the monitor. Aside from that, I don't think I can be of much help when it comes to games.
I think the thing you should be more concerned with is that, if you're a hardcore gamer, you won't be getting anywhere near the best FPS when playing at 1xx0x1200. I'm not hardcore at all, so I bump it up as high as it will go as long as it keeps it above ~30 FPS.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 15:00
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I think the thing you should be more concerned with is that, if you're a hardcore gamer, you won't be getting anywhere near the best FPS when playing at 1xx0x1200. I'm not hardcore at all, so I bump it up as high as it will go as long as it keeps it above ~30 FPS.
Gotya. Hm. So I guess this is showing my naivity about what native resolution is...
If you run a monitor at native resolution, I'm guessing that you will be getting the sharpest quality that the monitor can produce. So... if you downconvert to a lower res to play a game, for instance, are you now sacraficing lots of quality? There must be a faq about this somewhere. Ok, google here I come.
- Jon
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 16:01
Absolutely. You say you have an LCD now, right? Given that it's a 21" Samsung, I'm guessing that its native resolution is what you have it at, 1600x1200. Try lowering it to something like 1280x1024 and see what that looks like. It's blurry.
Anyway, I still say wait and see what the monitor looks like. I think you'll have a hard time sending it back.
Posted by: tman
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 16:09
800x600 would work fine with a 1600x1200 and still be sharp because 1600x1200 is an integer multiple of 800x600. It's where the pixels don't scale up precisely is when you have the problems. That said, new panels are pretty good about scaling and it might be good enough for you. Old ones used to just do crap nearest neighbour interpolation and it looked really nasty.
As Digan17 said, you just need to try it out. It may be acceptable for you.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 16:11
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800x600 would work fine with a 1600x1200 and still be sharp because 1600x1200 is an integer multiple of 800x600. It's where the pixels don't scale up precisely is when you have the problems. That said, new panels are pretty good about scaling and it might be good enough for you. Old ones used to just do crap nearest neighbour interpolation and it looked really nasty.
As Digan17 said, you just need to try it out. It may be acceptable for you.
Ok, cool. Thanks again for the help. 1600x1200 scales nicely to 800x600, but 1920x1200??? The widescreen makes it unlikely to scale to 1600x1200 well, I think.
I'll report back after I test. Am supposed to get the PC and monitor on Monday.
This board rocks, as do you dudes.
- Jon
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 16:14
I would hope that a 16:9 LCD sent a 4:3 signal would just put black bars on the sides, but I have no evidence, personal or anecdotal, that that's the case.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 16:17
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I would hope that a 16:9 LCD sent a 4:3 signal would just put black bars on the sides, but I have no evidence, personal or anecdotal, that that's the case.
Hm. So if that were true, then Half Life 2 (sorry to be stuck on it, but Loren and gang got me totally excited about it, and now it's my holy grail) should look fine at 1600x1200 with black bars.
Have you guys seen http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/ ?
Half Life 2 isn't really discussed or featured, so I'm guessing it can't do 16x9.
- Jon
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 16:28
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Half Life 2 isn't really discussed or featured, so I'm guessing it can't do 16x9.
Yes it can, I've played it at 1920x1080, 960x540, and any number of other widescreen resolutions on my HDTV.
If the resolutions are available in your windows display properties, HL2 simply offers those resolutions in its configuration screen.
Sometimes the trick is getting windows to offer you that resolution, but HL2 does not limit its resolutions. It Does The Right Thing, too, setting the proper FOV and moving the icons and such into the proper places on the screen. Looks freaking fantastic.
There are also the command-line options -width xxx -height xxx -window -full, but none of those do any good unless that exact rez is available in the Windows Display Properties. If you try to use -width and -height for fullscreen, and those rezzes are not available to Windows, then it will drop out with an error message.
You can, however, run it in a window of any size regardless of the available display rezzes. I actually do this when playing on my HDTV because it's got 5 percent overscan and I want to see all the edges of the playfield. So I make a -window that is a bit smaller than the full 1920x1080 screen, so it fits exactly within the overscan area.
Here is another good resource on widescreen gaming: Tiger Dave.
Posted by: tman
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 16:31
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I would hope that a 16:9 LCD sent a 4:3 signal would just put black bars on the sides, but I have no evidence, personal or anecdotal, that that's the case.
My Dell 2005FPW gives you the option of 1:1 (black bars all 4 sides), aspect (black bars on two sides + stretching) or stretching to fill the screen.
Posted by: tman
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 16:33
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Hm. So if that were true, then Half Life 2 (sorry to be stuck on it, but Loren and gang got me totally excited about it, and now it's my holy grail) should look fine at 1600x1200 with black bars.
You should be able to set it in the monitor whether to have the black bars or stretch it.
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Half Life 2 isn't really discussed or featured, so I'm guessing it can't do 16x9.
It's 16:10 for PC widescreen and yes, it does support it.
Posted by: drakino
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 18:47
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Half Life 2 isn't really discussed or featured, so I'm guessing it can't do 16x9.
Half Life 2 is one of the better FPS games for supporting widescreen. In game, it offers an aspect ration chooser, for 16x10 (your monitor), 16x9 (HDTVs), 4:3 (common screens) or 5:4( 1280x1024 LCDs). Choosing that adjusts the engine to render things properly, avoiding FOV issues. I'm guessing that since no real hacks/manual config tweaking has to be done, people don't discuss it much.
1600x1200 on your screen should look fine if it adds the black bars. There are two ways this may occur. The monitor may have options to stretch or not , and also the video card is likely to offer options to "preserve aspect ratio". Though that BFG post you linked, it looks like the drivers are bugged and only offer the scaling options when you aren't set to 1920x1200.
My new copy of GRS will be out shortly adding support for Doom 3, UT 2004 and Battlefield 2. Though BF2 has some issues, the guys at Widescreen Gaming Fourm found out the 16x9 is simply the 4:3 view cropped down. Similar to applying cardboard to a 4:3 TV to get a "letterbox" show. People aren't thrilled about that, and are hoping a future patch adds proper widescreen support, without adding 5 new memory leaks.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 21/07/2005 18:59
Very cool. Will try GRS when I'm testing.
- Thanx
- Jon
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 29/07/2005 19:17
An update...
I had all kinds of noise on the 2405 that, after trying all kinds of solutions, I thought was a defective BFG card. I RMA'd it and had the same problems with the replacement card. I called BFG one last time in desperation before giving up on BFG and they asked me to try plugging into the 2nd DVI port. I had tried that previously, but couldn't even get a signal with that port. Well, lo and behold, this SOLVED MY PROBLEM! So that first DVI on both cards is hosed...
I'm so glad that this fixed the problem that I'm not gonna worry about it for now. I'm just loving HL2.
So now, I'm trying to figure out how to best tweak the video settings to optimize my experience with HL2. I really don't know what anti aliasing and stuff is.
How do you guys tweak the settings when starting a new game? Is it just a game of trial and error? Is there a guide to all that somewhere?
There is a bit of weirdness going on when moving where the video doesn't keep up with my quick movement... It's like the screen gets split in half for a quick second... Does this have to do with AA?
- Thanx
- Jon
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 29/07/2005 19:41
I was going to explain antialiasing, but, as usual, Wikipedia does
a better job than I can.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Comments on new Dell PC wanted... - 29/07/2005 20:10