Posted by: pgrzelak
Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 10:43
It looks like they will finally release the unrevisionist history on DVD.
Han shot first...
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 11:33
a) congrats, George, you're going to be making lots of money
b) "The DVDs will be available only through December 31." Wait, what? Why didn't they go into more detail on this little tidbit? The rest of the article said nothing about a limited release. Why would they produce such a short run?
b) "The DVDs will be available only through December 31." Wait, what? Why didn't they go into more detail on this little tidbit? The rest of the article said nothing about a limited release. Why would they produce such a short run?
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 11:40
For reason "a" that you mention above. The folks that will buy this are the more hard core fans that specifically want the original release, or people buying it for a hard core fan as a gift.
Claiming it as a limited edition raises the price. Two disk sets (even though many will already have the other box) will also raise the price. Releasing the movies individually instead of as a box will raise the price some more. Especially when your target audience is the "collect the whole set" crowd. Especially when you claim that it is actually inferior to the revisionist set and slap a "classic", "nostalgia" or "retrospective" label on it. More collector value, raise the price...
Claiming it as a limited edition raises the price. Two disk sets (even though many will already have the other box) will also raise the price. Releasing the movies individually instead of as a box will raise the price some more. Especially when your target audience is the "collect the whole set" crowd. Especially when you claim that it is actually inferior to the revisionist set and slap a "classic", "nostalgia" or "retrospective" label on it. More collector value, raise the price...
Posted by: Cybjorg
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 11:50
Crap. I already have the revised version. I'm not spending more money on this series.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 11:59
I saw the re-released episode 4 & 5 in the theaters, but couldn't bring myself to see episode 6. Likewise, I was excited to see episode 1, which crushed me with its lameness. Still, I went back to see episode 2, which convinced me that Lucas had finally crossed completely over to the dark side. I've managed to completely avoid watching episode 3. I can be strong. No more money going from my pocket to George Lucas. No more. Please make it stop.
Posted by: Ezekiel
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 12:07
That's too bad b/c IMHO 3 was a decent movie (while 1 was almost OK, 2 was pure crap).
My VHS original-cut box set still looks just fine, thank you very much. If I want a DVD set, I'll make it myself.
-Zeke
My VHS original-cut box set still looks just fine, thank you very much. If I want a DVD set, I'll make it myself.
-Zeke
Posted by: Roger
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 12:14
Quote:
Crap. I already have the revised version. I'm not spending more money on this series.
Fortunately, my father-in-law (to be) bought me the revised editions, so I didn't spend any money on those. I'm definitely going to score me the original version.
Posted by: BAKup
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 12:47
I saw the SE of 4, 5 & 6 on VHS since that was the only way I could by the films at the time. Some of the effects were nice, but most of it should have stayed on the cutting room floor since it didn't fit well at all with the rest of the film, and also Han shot first.
I saw 1 in the theater, and after that I said I would never see 2 and 3, and so far I've held to it.
I'd love to buy this set, but I'm not ever going to give him another dime of my money except to go see the Indiana Jones movie.
Creative vision my ass, he's just wanting to milk SW for as much money as he can get out of it, and the fanbois are willing to take it up the ass for him.
I saw 1 in the theater, and after that I said I would never see 2 and 3, and so far I've held to it.
I'd love to buy this set, but I'm not ever going to give him another dime of my money except to go see the Indiana Jones movie.
Creative vision my ass, he's just wanting to milk SW for as much money as he can get out of it, and the fanbois are willing to take it up the ass for him.
Posted by: Roger
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 13:09
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 14:30
And in art imitating life... George Lucas realized as a storm trooper action figure... I would bet he is laughing all the way to the bank... 
Posted by: BAKup
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 15:35
Quote:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/09/22
Yup Gabe and Tyco pretty much sums it up there.
Upon re-reading my boobies in the thread, damn, I must be getting old if I'm that bitter about it.
(I'm sure some people will get the joke in that comment, and others will not, some will get puppies)
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Han shot first... - 04/05/2006 17:35
Quote:Liar.
I'm not spending more money on this series.
All I have to say to Lucas is "Well played, sir. Well played". I'll be buying the set for sure . . . I wonder if I can ebay the set I have now . . .
Posted by: canuckInOR
Re: Han shot first... - 06/05/2006 03:08
Not to mention, c) because next year, he's going to re-release the unedited version... in HD.
Posted by: pgrzelak
Re: Han shot first... - 06/05/2006 10:13
Valid point!!! In both BlueRay and HD formats, certainly...
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Han shot first... - 06/05/2006 12:41
Somehow, I wouldn't be surprised if the Star Wars series is only released in one of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD but not both. You can imagine all kinds of intense back-room negotiations on this one, as many people will no doubt make their hardware decision on the basis of the available software.
My big question is how long I have to wait to buy a truly universal player (i.e., SACD, DVD-Audio, DVD, CD, VCD, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, MP3, DivX, and presumably some network features as well).
My big question is how long I have to wait to buy a truly universal player (i.e., SACD, DVD-Audio, DVD, CD, VCD, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, MP3, DivX, and presumably some network features as well).
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Han shot first... - 06/05/2006 13:24
Personally I hope both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray fail and are replaced by a third format with higher density and smaller footprint. Why are we still stuck with a 26 year old form factor? In the very least, if we're going to stick with disc-based optical storage, I'd like to see a 3" disc become standard. Most existing disc players already support that size disc. We just need a technology to cram a minimum of 100GB onto one (more would be better).
Have you guys seen the prices mentioned for blank media in both new formats? Insane.
I'm at the point where I now dislike DVDs as well. The idea is sound, but the execution is terrible. Each new disc that comes out forces more and more crap on the consumer and makes it harder and harder to navigate. I'm sorry, but pressing PLAY while in the DVD menu should *always* play the movie. I fully expect the new formats to continue down the dark path, with more commercials and other garbage you can't escape out of before the feature.
And don't get me started on that George Lucas Duche.
Bruno
Have you guys seen the prices mentioned for blank media in both new formats? Insane.
I'm at the point where I now dislike DVDs as well. The idea is sound, but the execution is terrible. Each new disc that comes out forces more and more crap on the consumer and makes it harder and harder to navigate. I'm sorry, but pressing PLAY while in the DVD menu should *always* play the movie. I fully expect the new formats to continue down the dark path, with more commercials and other garbage you can't escape out of before the feature.
And don't get me started on that George Lucas Duche.
Bruno
Posted by: mlord
Re: Han shot first... - 06/05/2006 13:52
Quote:
but pressing PLAY while in the DVD menu should *always* play the movie.
Just more incentive to exercise our right to make a copy of the (preferably rented) disc, stripping off such nonsense in the process.
Cheers
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Han shot first... - 06/05/2006 16:08
To be fair, there is such a thing as a 3" DVD. All the new DVD-Camcorders use them. Presumably, you could do exactly the same thing with HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, giving up space, of course, in return for size. There were even commercial releases on 3" CDs, way back in the day. I have several CD singles that I bought in 1987. Today, any CD single you buy will still be on a 5" disc.
For both pre-packaged movies and audio, I think the industry simply likes the standard 5" format, and I imagine the insane production volumes make the cost difference between 5" and 3" negligible. And, of most interest to the industry, bigger discs have bigger packaging that is nicely readable on a shelf from a reasonable distance. Remember casette tapes? I don't think anybody in the industry wants to go back to that form factor.
The proper answer, of course, is to get rid of these shiny discs altogether and go with digital downloads...
For both pre-packaged movies and audio, I think the industry simply likes the standard 5" format, and I imagine the insane production volumes make the cost difference between 5" and 3" negligible. And, of most interest to the industry, bigger discs have bigger packaging that is nicely readable on a shelf from a reasonable distance. Remember casette tapes? I don't think anybody in the industry wants to go back to that form factor.
The proper answer, of course, is to get rid of these shiny discs altogether and go with digital downloads...
Posted by: tonyc
Re: Han shot first... - 10/05/2006 13:19
You all may want to take a look at these upcoming Special Edition DVD sets to make sure you don't get burned again...
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Han shot first... - 10/05/2006 13:53
Wow, I like that author. He seems to be channeling Dave Barry in his article about Wikipedia.
Quote:
Wikipedia is a new paradigm in human discourse. It's a place where anyone with a browser can go, pick a subject that interests them, and without even logging in, start an argument.
Posted by: BAKup
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 12:42
Well, I was over at Penny Arcade today, and found some news that I didn't think could get me more pissed off about Lucas and his butchering of the original Star Wars.
Long story short: The DVD edition is going to be rips from the 1993 laserdisc edition since they "lost" all the original source materials. Reading further it's looking like it'll be letterboxed, not anamorphic.
After this, I'm not even going to bother with going to see the final Indiana Jones movie now, or ever seeing anything he has a hand in.
Long story short: The DVD edition is going to be rips from the 1993 laserdisc edition since they "lost" all the original source materials. Reading further it's looking like it'll be letterboxed, not anamorphic.
After this, I'm not even going to bother with going to see the final Indiana Jones movie now, or ever seeing anything he has a hand in.
Posted by: tonyc
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 13:09
Quote:
Long story short: The DVD edition is going to be rips from the 1993 laserdisc edition since they "lost" all the original source materials. Reading further it's looking like it'll be letterboxed, not anamorphic.
Now taking predictions on when the source materials will be "found." My money's on November 2007, just in time for Christmas.
Posted by: Mataglap
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 15:06
Quote:
Well, I was over at Penny Arcade today, and found some news that I didn't think could get me more pissed off about Lucas and his butchering of the original Star Wars.
Long story short: The DVD edition is going to be rips from the 1993 laserdisc edition since they "lost" all the original source materials. Reading further it's looking like it'll be letterboxed, not anamorphic.
After this, I'm not even going to bother with going to see the final Indiana Jones movie now, or ever seeing anything he has a hand in.
<persnicketty>Well, technically even an anamorphic transfer would be letterboxed. 4x3 = 1.33:1, 16x9 = 1.78:1, and Star Wars is 2.35:1. An example</persnicketty>
Here's an article that talks about how there are materials available to do a restoration, with quotes from both LucasFilm and the Digital Bits, a good DVD site.
--Nathan
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 15:10
What he's saying is that it won't be anamorphic, which means there will be fewer non-black pixels on the screen than if it were anamorphic. He's not complaining about black bars, he's complaining about lousy encoding.
Posted by: Waterman981
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 15:13
Quote:
Long story short: The DVD edition is going to be rips from the 1993 laserdisc edition since they "lost" all the original source materials. Reading further it's looking like it'll be letterboxed, not anamorphic.
Over at OriginalTrilogy.com they have a PR Response from Lucasfilm. Lines of note:
Quote:
... the Special Editions were created through a frame-by-frame digital restoration. The negatives of the movies were permanently altered for the creation of the Special Editions, and existing prints of the first versions are in poor condition.
It's not that they are lost, it's that they don't want to take the time to do it right.
And how since the SE's were "created through a frame-by-frame digital restoration" are the original negatives permanently altered?
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 15:18
Quote:
What he's saying is that it won't be anamorphic, which means there will be fewer non-black pixels on the screen than if it were anamorphic. He's not complaining about black bars, he's complaining about lousy encoding.
Yeah. On a large-screen 16:9 television set, the difference between an anamorphic DVD and a regular letterbox DVD is like night and day. The anamorphic transfers (even transfers of 2.35:1 material that still has black bars) are orders of magnitude better than a letterbox transfer. Zooming a letterbox transfer to fit the 16:9 screen looks so awful in comparison that I flatly refuse to buy movies that are encoded that way.
Posted by: Mataglap
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 15:24
Oh, I'm in complete agreement. Just being particular about a couple of points, 1. the issue is (at a minimum) non-anamorphic vs. anamorphic transfers, not letterboxing vs. anamorphic (that's a lazy and inexact difference), and 2. the materials to do at least a anamorphic transfer much less a full digital restoration and transfer are out there.
I would expect at least you to appreciate the specificity.
One of the amazing things to me about all of this is that restoration experts are of an age that saw the original versions in the theaters and they're as annoyed by this as much as anyone because they know it could be done right.
--Nathan
I would expect at least you to appreciate the specificity.
One of the amazing things to me about all of this is that restoration experts are of an age that saw the original versions in the theaters and they're as annoyed by this as much as anyone because they know it could be done right.
--Nathan
Posted by: BAKup
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 16:24
Quote:
Yeah. On a large-screen 16:9 television set, the difference between an anamorphic DVD and a regular letterbox DVD is like night and day. The anamorphic transfers (even transfers of 2.35:1 material that still has black bars) are orders of magnitude better than a letterbox transfer. Zooming a letterbox transfer to fit the 16:9 screen looks so awful in comparison that I flatly refuse to buy movies that are encoded that way.
What he said
Even if it was just a rip from the LD copy, it doesn't take that much work to encode it properly. Lucas wants this DVD release to fail, there's no other reason why he's doing it this way.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 16:28
The LD copy only has 400 lines of resolution, minus the letterboxing black. You can't magically make more lines of resolution out of that. Making an anamorphic disc from that would look worse. It's like reencoding a 128kbps MP3 to a 256kbps MP3 in hopes that it will sound better.
Doing some math, it seems that the 2.35:1 aspect ratio of the Star Wars movies letterboxed to fit in 4:3 leaves about 227 lines of resolution for the actual movie. If it were produced anamorphically (16:9), it would result in 302 lines of resolution. That's a loss of 25%. If it were an anamorphic DVD (assuming a native resolution for DVDs of 540 lines), it would be 408 lines. That's a loss of about 44%.
Doing some math, it seems that the 2.35:1 aspect ratio of the Star Wars movies letterboxed to fit in 4:3 leaves about 227 lines of resolution for the actual movie. If it were produced anamorphically (16:9), it would result in 302 lines of resolution. That's a loss of 25%. If it were an anamorphic DVD (assuming a native resolution for DVDs of 540 lines), it would be 408 lines. That's a loss of about 44%.
Posted by: canuckInOR
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 17:19
Quote:
Over at OriginalTrilogy.com they have a PR Response from Lucasfilm. Lines of note:Quote:
... the Special Editions were created through a frame-by-frame digital restoration. The negatives of the movies were permanently altered for the creation of the Special Editions, and existing prints of the first versions are in poor condition.
It's not that they are lost, it's that they don't want to take the time to do it right.
Also known as... we'll do it sloppy the first time around. Everyone will buy a copy, anyway. Then, in a few years, we'll do it properly, and re-release them, and everyone will buy a new copy again.
Jaded? Me?
Posted by: Mataglap
Re: Han shot first... - 08/06/2006 18:04
Quote:
Jaded? Me?
Maybe, but Penny Arcade's with you. And the last Star Wars media I've bought was the VHS THX pre-special edition box set. So Lucas can issue, re-issue, re-master, and special all he wants. I'm done giving him my money. (And he's gonna feel it in his wallet. Ok, no he won't.)
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Han shot first... - 14/06/2006 11:57
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Han shot first... - 14/06/2006 18:58
Very sad. But fortunately, there will always be a need for physical effects and miniatures. There's always going to be certain things that are more cheaply and/or more realistically modeled in miniature. Those people aren't out of a job, they're just getting different bosses.