Buying a new car . . .
Posted by: JeffS
Buying a new car . . . - 21/02/2007 20:46
So I've driven a Mustang for the last 8 years and have loved it, despite being the underpowered V6. It's just a fun car and wasn't that expensive.
But now it's time for a new car. I am commuting 1hr+ two ways everyday and my current car is getting a little old. Plus it's a manual transmission, and as fun as it is, sitting in rush hour traffic twice a day really is much easier to handle with an automatic.
Because I've enjoyed my current car so much, the obvious move for me is the new mustang- I love the new look. I am comfortable with the 30K-35K price a new V8 will cost me (and I'm considering the convertable). I've test driven a cow-orker's new Mustang and it was a lot of fun. In fact, the silly reason I'm even considering buying something else is because two of the developers on our ten person team already have new Mustangs, and it just sort of seems a little lame to buy the same car everyone else has (especially only a month after my teammate bought his). Probably that won't be enough to stop me, but I started wondering what else might be out there. I've looked at a couple web sites to see what is out there (since I don't see car commercials anymore I am hoplessly oblivious to what cars are out right now), but haven't really seen anything that even remotely interests me. Then I figured maybe someone here might have some thoughts about what is available in my price range. So any thoughts? I don't really need a family car, but I'm not stuck on a sports car either. I just want something fun to drive if I'm going to spent 2.5 hours in it every day.
Also, one thing that I like about the new Mustang is an aux in in the console that I can plug my Karma into, which pretty much eliminates the need to install my empeg. Is this standard on new cars, or are only some putting this in as a standard feature? That is a huge selling point for me, as simple a thing as it is.
Posted by: Redrum
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 21/02/2007 20:54
Dodge Magnum with AWD and a hemi
Posted by: music
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 21/02/2007 22:53
Quote:
So any thoughts? I don't really need a family car, but I'm not stuck on a sports car either.
That's a pretty wide open question.
Which of the following parameters are "must have", "must NOT have", or "don't care"?
- FWD / RWD / 4WD / AWD
- Convertible / Coupe
- Stick / PaddleShift / Automatic / CVT
- HighHorsepower / HighRPMs / LowEndTorque / Turbocharger / Supercharger
- 2-seater / 4-seater / CanCarryGolfClubs
- Heavy / Light
- HeatedSeats / otherLuxuryStuff
- SideCurtainAirBags / otherSafetyStuff
- American / German / Japanese
- under-$30K / $30-40K / $40-50K / $50-60K / $60K-70K / $70K+
- SportsCar / GTCar / HighwayCruiser.
Rank the following from most-to-least in terms of importance:
- Price
- Economy
- Comfort
- Handling
- Acceleration
- DepreciatingDoodads-in-the-dashboard (GPSNav/bluetooth/Ipod)
- Maintenance costs (I.e., wide Z-rated tires aren't cheap and don't last)
- Resale value
- Lines of the car (how it looks to YOU)
- Image of the car (how it looks to OTHERS)
- Safety
All that being said, I'd recommend looking at a BMW 335 to get a great cross-section of HP, handling, and comfort.
Of course, it's been heavily Bangled so I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot-pole. And you might get iDrive rammed down your throat, too. (SUCK) So that's off the list.
So maybe you should get a Infiniti G35, since it's a Bimmer-killer in many respects. Of course, the plastic interior is Empeg-proof and will totally start rattling apart in about a year. So no-go on this one.
Then again, the Lexus IS350 might be interesting. But I doubt you want to be one of "those" Lexus drivers. OK. Scratch that.
You mentioned that you like Mustangs. Of course you might now be getting a little too old to be "that kid with the Mustang" and yet still be a little too young to be "that mid-life crisis guy with the Mustang." Another one scratched off the list.
A new re-vamped "Bitchin' Camaro" comes out next year (I think).
Alternately, you can buy a Mitsu Evo and get a fair amount of driving excitement. Of course, you'll look like an overgrown 16-year-old who bolted a wing and a bunch of crap onto his car. On the other hand, driving it may be so much fun that you don't car about all the juvenile delinquents trying to goad you to race them at every stoplight.
Another direction to go would be the Subaru WRX Sti. Oceans, Mountains, Mud, Rain, Dry Pavement. Drive Drive Drive, baby.
Or, another thought: a slightly used Toyota MR2.
Already depreciated. Convertible. What's not to love?
Hey, how about a Saturn Sky or a Pontiac Solstice?
Their performance characteristics on paper aren't all that great, but I bet you could have a HECK of a lot of fun in one of those for maybe 20 Grand or so.
Hard to beat that.
But you might have some issues with lugging your guitar amp around (bring one to the dealer and see if you can jam it in the trunk).
Or get a 20 year old Porsche 944 for $6-8K. Maintenance might suck, though.
Quote:
I just want something fun to drive if I'm going to spent 2.5 hours in it every day.
2.5 hours!? 
OK, never mind. Buy a Prius or a Hybrid.
Or a tiny Toyota Yaris which you can just drive into the ground.
Posted by: TigerJimmy
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 00:41
Go drive a BMW 3-series. If you want to have a TON of fun, get yourself a 2 or 3 year old M3 for less money than a new Mustang, and about 10,000x the car.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 01:21
* FWD / RWD / 4WD / AWD- Don't Care
* Convertible / Coupe- would LIKE a convertible, but I'm undecided
* Stick / PaddleShift / Automatic / CVT- Automatic
* HighHorsepower / HighRPMs / LowEndTorque / Turbocharger / Supercharger- Exact specs aren't important, but I want to have some oomph.
* 2-seater / 4-seater / CanCarryGolfClubs- 2 or 4 is fine, but I'd prefer a 2 door.
* Heavy / Light- don't care
* HeatedSeats / otherLuxuryStuff- Nice to have, not critical.
* SideCurtainAirBags / otherSafetyStuff- don't care, but my wife does.
* American / German / Japanese- don't care.
* under-$30K / $30-40K / $40-50K / $50-60K / $60K-70K / $70K+ Must be under $35K and would prefer under $30K
* SportsCar / GTCar / HighwayCruiser- as long as it is "fun".
My ranking:
Aux in for my Karma
Acceleration
Handling
Lines of the car (how it looks to YOU)
Comfort
Price
DepreciatingDoodads-in-the-dashboard (GPSNav/bluetooth/Ipod)
Maintenance costs (I.e., wide Z-rated tires aren't cheap and # don't last)
Safety
Economy
Resale value
Image of the car (how it looks to OTHERS)
Quote:
So maybe you should get a Infiniti G35
This is what my wife wants me to get- used, obviously, since I can't afford to get one new.
Quote:
the plastic interior is Empeg-proof
I'm pretty much Karma-only these days. The empg is about to be retired to a shelf in my house. However, this makes Aux in a HUGLY imporant thing for me.
Quote:
You mentioned that you like Mustangs. Of course you might now be getting a little too old to be "that kid with the Mustang" and yet still be a little too young to be "that mid-life crisis guy with the Mustang."
I'm ok with being either of these guys- it's a fun car to drive 
Quote:
But you might have some issues with lugging your guitar amp around (bring one to the dealer and see if you can jam it in the trunk).
Well, I don't gig anymore since moving to Atlanta 
, but if I ever DO need to lug equipment around we always have my wife's Escape (which I still think is an awesome car, and actually what I've been driving to work as of late).
Quote:
2.5 hours!?
OK, never mind. Buy a Prius or a Hybrid.
- heh, well this commute (1hr 15 min) is temporary and does not require me to play rent- I assume that my normal commute will be around 45 minutes (1.5 hours total) once we get to our final destination. The upside is that I have more money to spend on gas so having a nice drive is more important than economy.
Posted by: music
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 05:22
Quote:
Quote:
So maybe you should get a Infiniti G35
This is what my wife wants me to get- used, obviously, since I can't afford to get one new.
You can get a brand new G35 coupe for $34K MSRP.
In fact, their factory lease offer this month is: $329.00 per mo. with $3754.00 due at Signing
You should also investigate the Nissan 350Z since it is basically the same car and occasionally cheaper.
If you are set on a convertible, a new convertible BMW 3-series or Mercedes SLK350 are just barely outside your range, but a coupe 3-series might sneak under the line.
No point in buying Audi unless you get Quattro (AWD).
That means a NEW TT (Quattro) is slightly outside your range, but a new A4 Turbo is not.
If you're not set on "new", a used BMW M3 (E46) will rock your world for under $35K.
I would recommend looking at one. Around here you can't swing a <insert colorful metaphor> without hitting one. So people are willing to deal.
[I just remembered you moved to Atlanta. But I believe the following regional comments still hold, though Atlanta might have a somewhat more robust used BMW market than San Antonio.]
Although, ISTR the market in San Antone is quite a bit different so you might not be able to haggle as sweet a deal on a slightly-used BMW.
On the other hand, a used M3 in Alamo-town is less likely to have seen serious track time than one around here.
On the gripping hand, you're more likely to get some spiffy Dinan go-fast parts already installed by the previous owner in this region.
Also, I think M3's only come in SMG or Manual transmission. So if Automatic is a must, M3's are probably out.
Otherwise, I'd go test drive in this order: Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, Nissan 350Z, Infiniti G35, Audi {TT Quattro, A4 2.0Turbo Quattro}, BMW coupe, new Mustang convertible.(*)
Each car, costing slightly more than the one before, ought to be more appealing than the one before. If not, throw it right out. Then at the end, you drive your tried and true favorite, the Mustang, last. That way you can mentally compare it against everything else.
At that point your're ready to immediately purchase the Mustang, or you're ready to immediately rule it out and go re-check your two favorites.
(*)Throw in a used Toyota MR2, a new Honda S2000, any other car from your short list that I forgot, and season to taste.
In closing, I think the Aux In is not a deal-killer.
I know BMW dealers used to offer iPod integration, and the instructions and know-how are still out there even thought I think the dealers no longer do this.
Similarly, check the G35 (or whatever) forums and I bet you can find a standard AuxIn solution for $200 or less for pretty much every car.
VW has tried to make a REALLY BIG DEAL about the fact that they have a stupid audio-in jack in their dash, so that might mean that Audi offers it standard now as well (I'm just speculating though).
Posted by: drakino
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 05:35
It sounds like your pretty willing to go for a new Mustang, so thats probably a good sign that it would be something you would enjoy again. I'm still having fun in mine, and have been looking into the local Mustang clubs now to further appreciate the car.
As far as your budget, a fully loaded GT looks to go a bit over 35k, but thats with nearly every option, including the navigation, interior upgrades and so on. So keeping it in 30k-35k should be easy. Also, I can get you an X-Plan PIN to save you some money on it, I used that for mine last year so I should have 2 new ones for this year.
If you can wait a bit for the car, I'd highly recommend ordering one. It's a great experience being able to pick up the car new with single digit readings on the odometer, and having every exact feature, interior layout and color choices match what you want. It takes about 2 months to be built and delivered, assuming the dealer puts it in at a good priority.
If you can wait more then 2 months, I believe the 2008 order banks will open up for the Mustang in April, and a few new options are being added. HID lights, some sort of new interior lighting package, and some new colors, including possibly grabber blue. Though they probably won't start building till late May at the earliest, meaning a late July timeframe.
Posted by: music
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 05:44
Ah-hah! It just dawned on me what you need.
2004 Porsche Boxster S Cabriolet
$34,000-ish, including Tiptronic Automatic Transmission (if you really must have an automatic
).
3.2 liters of 6-cylinder goodness cranking out 258 horsepower
to a 2910 pound car. Wheeeeee!
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 07:32
Wow, I sure came to the right place to ask my question!
Thanks for all the info- I will probably test drive all the ones you suggest, and I am not stuck on getting a new car. Getting a new car would be fun, especially if I order it and get to have it delievered, but saving money and getting a better car is fun too!
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 07:39
Quote:
Also, I can get you an X-Plan PIN to save you some money on it, I used that for mine last year so I should have 2 new ones for this year.
This would be awesome. I love this board
Quote:
If you can wait a bit for the car, I'd highly recommend ordering one. It's a great experience being able to pick up the car new with single digit readings on the odometer, and having every exact feature, interior layout and color choices match what you want. It takes about 2 months to be built and delivered, assuming the dealer puts it in at a good priority.
Yeah, this is what I've been wanting to do. My current plan is to
A) Test drive the cars on Music's list (it's pretty comprehensive)
B) If I still must have a Mustang, order one.
Posted by: Redrum
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 09:57
Quote:
My ranking:
Aux in for my Karma
Acceleration
Handling
Lines of the car (how it looks to YOU)
Comfort
Price
DepreciatingDoodads-in-the-dashboard (GPSNav/bluetooth/Ipod)
Maintenance costs (I.e., wide Z-rated tires aren't cheap and # don't last)
Safety
Economy
Resale value
Image of the car (how it looks to OTHERS)
Magnum has all that. OK then go for the big hemi motor and it will kick butt on all Mustangs at the office. And if you look at the prices of old hemi cars of the 60's ($100k) maybe you'll make money on it in 20 years.
Looks - either you like it or hate it. But at least it also doesn't look like every other egg on the road.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 10:05
Quote:
looks - either you like it or hate it.
Unfortunately, I'm on the "hate it" side
Too bad, because it seems quite nice.
Posted by: JBjorgen
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 10:47
Not sure if you'd like it, but a Mini Cooper S is a heck of a lot of fun to drive. Almost feels like an overpowered go-cart. Not sure if I'd buy one, but you may want to test drive one just for kicks.
Also comes in convertible.
Posted by: oliver
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 11:24
I went and drove the new VW Rabbits a few months ago, those are definitely fun, the salesman didn't like me leaving laying down some rubber in the lot, or breaking the read end loose. Either way, I had alot of fun!, plus they're only like $15k. You could get two, still be under your budget and have loads of fun.
However, I do love my A6, I only wish it was slightly newer with the navigation bits. AWD, heated seats and the ski condom are a must for me in this weather
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 11:28
Quote:
Not sure if you'd like it, but a Mini Cooper S is a heck of a lot of fun to drive. Almost feels like an overpowered go-cart. Not sure if I'd buy one, but you may want to test drive one just for kicks.
Also comes in convertible.
I was also going to mention it. It seems to fit with how the priorities were ranked.
Get the JCW (John Cooper Works) package, and I bet it'll hold its own against any of the other cars in this thread.
Posted by: Mach
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 11:56
Just to confuse things further, I'll throw the Subaru Outback XT into the mix. Alot of fun to drive, has the aux-in (07), has a turbo, good hauler if needed, AWD, and decent reputation for quality. I tried the Magnum and the Charger but shied away for quality reasons. I also was looking at the Mustang but was very disappointed in the interior styling.
I really liked the fact that the Outback has a modding community akin to the empeg community @ subaruoutback.org and legacygt.com. That being said, if the new camaro is a close to the prototype the Outback will likely get traded.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 12:27
Yeah, the camaro looks sweet. I can't wait a year, and I've never really been a big fan of the camaro anyway, but if they end up being anything close to the prototype it is going to be one sweet car. The inside stylings look good too, from what I've seen.
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 14:08
Although it hasn't been mentioned yet, you should go look at the Acura TSX and TL. You get pretty much maximum gadgetry for a minimum cost (e.g., Bluetooth phone support, HomeLink garage door opener, heated memory seats, etc.). Pretty much the only options are color, transmission, and nav system. The TL is slightly larger, but comes with a beefy V6 rather than the TSX's arguable V4 (pretty good with the manual transmission, slightly underpowered with the automatic). Likewise, go have a look at the Honda Accord Coupe (available with a V6; essentially the same as the Acura TL, but there are no Acura coupes) and the Honda Civic Si (well within your budget; fast, fun car). I'm pretty sure the new ones have an appropriate aux-in.
Another manufacturer you need to investigate is Mazda. Again, lots of gadgetry, and several of their cars have a bitchin' fast turbo. I'd recommend against a Miata/MX-5. I rented one and drove it from L.A. to Santa Barbara and back. They're fun on twisty mountain roads, but the suspension is way too tight for freeway driving; it doesn't damp out the high-frequency road noise at all, so it will rattle your teeth.
Finally, a plug for Audi. The Audi A3 is one of these cars with a reasonable base price but a million options packages. Go play with their online configurator. The 2.0T engine should be faster than your current Mustang, and the 3.2 V6 should blow your Mustang away. More importantly, you can get Audi's DSG transmission. It's way better than any automatic transmission because it's got this cool dual-clutch setup. You might also want to look at some of the similar Volkswagen models, but I think the Audi has some nice luxury features you can't get from Volkswagen.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 16:07
OK, well I just went and test drove the G35. That is a pretty sweet car. An amazing amount of gadetry, very comfortable, quite (except when your changing the first few gears, which makes it sound sporty- how clever!), accelerates and handles very well, and they can install an Aux in for me relativly cheaply.
Its a pretty good looking car- not as sexy as the Mustang, but it almost makes up for that by not being a car that everyone else already owns.
It isn't cheap- the salesman told me 39K for the fully loaded car I test drove, which is actually cheaper than if you load it out on their web site and price it. For financing they offered 3.99, which seems pretty good- better than Ford's 4.5% they are offering for the Mustang (Haven't checked with my credit union yet). Either way, the G35 is sill more expensive than the Mustang (especially if I compare it against the coup rather than the convertiblie- though I plan to get the convertible if I get the Mustang).
One cool thing the G35 has is the XM Radio + GPS= alerting you to accidents before you get to them. Now THAT is pretty neat, especially with my commute (half of which can be accomplished one of two ways). Apparently this works with XM and not Serius (sp?) because XM broadcasts information for the GPS system to use.
So far it seems to come down to comfort and gadgets vs price and sexiness.
Of course, that's only comparing the two cars. I'm going to take another run at lunch tomorrow to try out something else. The G35 definitly seems a good fit for my long commute, though.
Posted by: Ezekiel
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 22/02/2007 16:10
I had a rental G35 on a weeks' vacation in British Columbia. Except for rearward visibility and relatively poor mileage (compared to my Subaru Outback 6cyl) it was a great car.
-Zeke
Posted by: ineedcolor
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 23/02/2007 01:24
Good timing!...I was going to ask about a car I was considering...there are a number of seemingly pristine Audi TT Quattro roadsters on eBay right now for @ $16,000 average price...anyone have any experience with these cars? I would love to hear some opinions...
Zeke: A buddy of mine picked up his new G35 coupe today and he's been raving ever since...awesome car!
Cheers,
John
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 23/02/2007 19:47
Well, Ford just made my decision for me- I will NOT be buying the Mustang. Here's the story:
So I just checked my credit before getting too deep into the car search. For reported me delinquint 30 days. I was totally confused because we just paid off my wife's car. So I called them to find out what happened. Apparently when I'd called to make the final payment and entered it over the phone (which I did in order to make sure I had the exact right amount and got it to them in time), I fat fingered the amount somehow so it was off by $70. No idea how I did that. At any rate, they did not notify me or anything but reported that I was delenquint in payment to the credit berue immediatly. This after making EVERY payment on time for the whole 5 years we paid on my wife's car.
So I talked to Ford on the phone and explained the situation- the guy said "I see what happened, you obviously intended to pay the full amount but entered the wrong thing. You had the right intentions but we don't report intentions to the Beurue- we report facts. It was all explained on the credit application that you signed."
I asked why they didn't at least try to notify me of my error and try to correct it before reporting it, and again he said "we don't deal in intentions, we deal in fact. And the fact is you didn't send in the money".
Nice. I realize there's nothing that can be done now, but jeeze, they guy didn't even try to be classy about it. Kept talking about "facts not intentions". The irony being, of course, that I called and did it over the phone specificly to make sure I was sending in the correct amount for the last payment.
So I informed the guy I'd never buy another Ford.
So no Mustang for me- Having removed that option, I'm pretty sold on the G35 and will probably go that route. Unfortunatly I'll have to take a few more months to make up the difference in cost, as I wasn't planning on buying a 40K car. Of course, that will also give me some time to check out a few of the other suggestions.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 23/02/2007 21:17
I've been screwed over by Ford Motor Credit in similar ways myself in the past. (I had VW financed through FMC once upon a time.)
It's possible that you didn't fatfinger the amount, and that it actually changed between the time you called and the time you paid. I sometimes wonder if they do that crap on purpose.
Posted by: Robotic
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 23/02/2007 21:44
Quote:
Well, Ford just made my decision for me- I will NOT be buying the Mustang.
Wow! That's where the line "May I speak with your superior?" comes in handy.
The way he dealt with you is outrageous.
I vote you get a WRX. Who needs a V8?
Of course, if I had the money I'd go for a Monster Miata ...but that's neither here nor there in the scope of this thread.
Posted by: music
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 23/02/2007 22:31
Quote:
Of course, if I had the money I'd go for a Monster Miata ...but that's neither here nor there in the scope of this thread.
Did I miss some math, or would the total cost of that be:- $4500 for a 1992 Miata MX-5, plus
- $4000 for the conversion kit, plus
- a few hundred for some sticky, sticky tires
equals $9000 ?
(plus $500 for Empeg and audio upgrades, plus $1000 for random transmission or suspension enhancements)
Miatas are already very popular Auto-Cross cars.
And with a MonsterMiata setup, you could take it to the track and conceivably taunt the guys driving Vipers (depending on the track).
P.S. Someone earlier mentioned the Mini Cooper S. I know people have done some amazing souping up to those cars -- and they are supposedly quite fun track cars to begin with.
I went to the Monterey Historic Car races last summer and the featured marque was Cooper (the original Cooper). However, they had a special corral for a bunch of Mini Coopers. Dinan was there (the performance specialists for BMWs) showing off some serious aftermarket enhancements they now offer for Mini Coopers (since they're really BMWs now).
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 23/02/2007 23:00
Quote:
Quote:
Well, Ford just made my decision for me- I will NOT be buying the Mustang.
Wow! That's where the line "May I speak with your superior?" comes in handy.
The way he dealt with you is outrageous.
Of course, if I had the money I'd go for a Monster Miata
I'll just point out that Mazda is 1/3 owned by Ford.
Posted by: Robotic
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 23/02/2007 23:03
Quote:
Did I miss some math, or would the total cost of that be:- $4500 for a 1992 Miata MX-5, plus
- $4000 for the conversion kit, plus
- a few hundred for some sticky, sticky tires
equals $9000 ?
He gives an example cost here.
Quote:
Conversion Cost $16,900.00
Project Car Cost $6,000.00
Total Cost $22.900.00
edit: ah- I see- you've quoted the 'home-build' while I've quoted the 'shop-build' option.
edit again: yes, you have missed some math- the cost of the donor Ford drivetrain.
And, yes, it would pack a whallop at the auto-x events.
Cheaper than finding a Tiger, too.
Appologies to JeffS for the threadjack, but car threads can and often do go in many directions at once. 
Posted by: DWallach
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 23/02/2007 23:41
Quote:
there are a number of seemingly pristine Audi TT Quattro roadsters on eBay right now for @ $16,000 average price...anyone have any experience with these cars? I would love to hear some opinions...
I once test-drove the coupe version with the V6 and the DSG transmission, largely for the purpose of giving the DSG a try. While I was there, I also tried the much faster Audi S4. My conclusion was that the (slower) TT was much more fun than the (faster) S4, largely because the DSG transmission is really a joy.
That said, I'd be particularly hesitant about buying the first model year or two of the TT's with the DSG, because you're getting something really, really new and different from previous transmissions. How reliable will these things be? Do you want to risk it?
Posted by: drakino
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 24/02/2007 02:59
Wow, that sucks. Did he know he was losing a future sale with that "facts" crap, or did you let him know only at the end? Might explain why Ford is swirling around the toilet currently.
With your story of FMC and Tony's, it's making me want to let my bank take over my loan, even at a slightly higher rate then FMC offered. I have to admit if they do anything like that to me when my payments are done, I'll stay away from Ford even if I do like the Mustang.
Posted by: TigerJimmy
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 24/02/2007 07:06
Quote:
I'm pretty sold on the G35 and will probably go that route.
Go drive a BMW first. I promise you won't regret it. Autos are available. Check out the 330Csi.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 24/02/2007 12:10
Quote:
Did he know he was losing a future sale with that "facts" crap
Yeah, which is when he said "I'm sorry sir, I'm just telling it like it is."
I should have asked for his supervisor, but I was too mad at the moment to really make intelligent conversation. So I sent Ford an email explaining it all- yup, I sent an email. OOOOOH- I'm a tough guy
Posted by: music
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 24/02/2007 14:39
Quote:
Quote:
there are a number of seemingly pristine Audi TT Quattro roadsters on eBay right now for @ $16,000 average price...anyone have any experience with these cars? I would love to hear some opinions...
[...]
I'd be particularly hesitant about buying the first model year or two of the TT's with the DSG, because you're getting something really, really new and different from previous transmissions. How reliable will these things be? Do you want to risk it?
I saw an article recently (can't remember if it was print or online) which listed the used Audi TT as one of the best "bang for the buck" deals for used sporty cars. I know it specifically listed some years as "stay away" but gave high marks to other years. I'll see if I can recall where I came across this.
And, yeah, I've been wanting to test-drive a DSG car for a while, but haven't done it yet. I guess I just didn't want to get my hopes smashed like they were after driving the SMG cars from BMW -- SMG sucks bigtime in my opinion.
Also, if you really really want some serious information about TT's I can put you in touch with a friend of mine who has (with his wife) owned three of them and is quite knowledgeable about what mechanical changes were made in which year and what goes wrong and what to look out for, etc., etc.
Posted by: ineedcolor
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 24/02/2007 16:39
Cool, and thanks for the offer..I'll have to google the "DSG" because I haven't heard of that particular transmission before. I'm primarily interested in
this auction.
I love the idea of being able to cruise down the 401 in an all-wheel drive car with a six speed tranny!
Posted by: jimhogan
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 24/02/2007 19:14
Quote:
....Appologies to JeffS for the threadjack, but car threads can and often do go in many directions at once.
/me envisioning Jeff sitting in his thread at the alignment shop.
Didn't Ford just lose about 12 billion dollars last year? That's got to work out to a boatload of money per car produced...
So by not buying a Ford, you're actually saving them lots of money !!!!
Randy
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 24/02/2007 19:39
Quote:
So by not buying a Ford, you're actually saving them lots of money !!!!
Doh! Foiled again!
Posted by: tanstaafl.
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 24/02/2007 21:57
Quote:
Then I figured maybe someone here might have some thoughts about what is available in my price range. So any thoughts? I don't really need a family car, but I'm not stuck on a sports car either. I just want something fun to drive if I'm going to spent 2.5 hours in it every day.
I was going to stay out of this one, but I just can't stand it any more.
Jeff, you need to take the larger view, not focus on immediate gratification.
First, If you want a car that's "fun to drive" you couldn't do better than the Lotus Elise. And after about two weeks you'd be taking the bus to work instead of driving, because "fun to drive" does not translate into enjoyable to commute in. It's noisy, harsh riding, cramped, no a/c... but boy, is it ever fun to drive.
The amount of time you will spend in a car in "fun to drive" mode is insignificant compared to the amount of time you will be using the car for transportation. You need to buy a car that is first of all enjoyable to be in, and then start narrowing the field by fun to drive criteria.
Second, unless you are quite wealthy, don't even consider buying a new car. The idea of throwing away $4,000 or more in depreciation the moment you sign the papers is ludicrous. Now, maybe the idea of having a brand new, never been owned before car is really important to you, and worth the money. In that case, go for it. But if fiscal sanity is any part of the equation, do consider the used market.
Getting back to the first point... just remember that you will seldom be in a situation where you can utilize the amazing performance of something like a WRX or other high performance car, and the penalties you pay in enjoyability the remaining 98% of the time are scant compensation for those few "fun to drive" moments that you have.
My recommendation? Buy a used Lexus or Infiniti or Mercedes -- some nice luxury car that may be a little bit less "fun to drive" but more enjoyable to be in. You know -- quiet, good air conditioning, responsive handling, adequate power, smooth ride, good sound system. Then, with the money you saved by buying the car used, buy yourself a toy -- a used Miata or some similar "fun" car. You'll have the best of both worlds.
But, what do I know? I drive around in a 14 year old Ford station wagon...
tanstaafl.
Posted by: cushman
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 24/02/2007 23:18
Quote:
My recommendation? Buy a used Lexus or Infiniti or Mercedes -- some nice luxury car that may be a little bit less "fun to drive" but more enjoyable to be in. You know -- quiet, good air conditioning, responsive handling, adequate power, smooth ride, good sound system.
I'm convinced. I bought a low-milage '02 Volvo S80 last year for under $20k and haven't regretted it once. The used luxury market is very good to buyers - three or four years and you can cut the price of the car in half. Best bang for your buck, IMO.
Posted by: jbauer
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 24/02/2007 23:59
I just bought this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonbauer/398897520/http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonbauer/400221531/in/photostream/Lot's of bang for the buck. I think it has all of the grace and pedigree of a Lotus Elise (well, I may be exaggerating a bit) but with more function.
No one mentioned that the MX-5 is now available with that power retractable hard top. It's great, but the car is hard to find...
- Jon
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 25/02/2007 00:07
Quote:
Buy a used Lexus or Infiniti or Mercedes
Well, this is pretty much my plan, I think. I really like the Infiniti, but I'm going to try a few others as well. But yeah, if I take my time I can probably get the car I want used and save quite a bit.
Posted by: TigerJimmy
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 25/02/2007 04:59
I intend my next car to be a used Mercedes 4Matic E class wagon. I think its the best built car on the road, but definitely not terribly "fun" to drive (though they handle very well and have adequate power).
You'd be amazed at how much car you can get for $25-30k in the used E-Class market right now, as the body was just recently updated.
The D "diesel" tempts me, but isn't available in a 4Matic wagon. The D can do almost 700 miles per tank.
If I decide to go purely for comfortable, reliable transportation at the least possible cost, I'll get a used Crown Victoria. These are designed for fleet use and are *extremely* rugged. Check ebay for the prices on 2 year old Crowns (or Mercury Marquis) with all the options. Its an absurd amount of car for the money. Not fun to drive by any means, but quiet, comfortable, and fairly powerful. The adjustable pedals are awesome.
I don't believe in car payments. If I don't want to throw down the cash for the E, I'll get the Crown. I highly recommend paying cash for less car, but I understand that is regarded as an absurd idea these days.
Posted by: FireFox31
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 25/02/2007 05:32
Now I can't resist staying out of the conversation; TigerJimmy sparked my memory.
There are some great overlooked used cars out there.
1997 Lincoln Mark VIII is a damn BEAST (Mustang cobra engine) with all the luxury trimmings, a modding community, and decent gas mileage. Pay no more than $7000 for a quality car. $3k for initial maintenance and extras, and your other $20k for yourself.
For more luxury (and convertible), look for a used Benz CL under $40k. The CL is the first Benz to get the newest technology, looks hot, and is exclusive (around me, anyway). Or get a CLK and keep $10k from your budget.
TigerJimmy, you are a smart man. My used W210 E320 4matic wagon has given me 10k miles quite nicely. It will learn to be responsive if you demand it. Just watch for the known problems (pm me for details).
Redrum, tanstaafl, and other wagon lovers, you're right on as well!
Music, you could be a contract automotive personal shopper with your clear thinking. Good work.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 16:37
Ok, well after a couple of test drives, I have changed my mind about a lot of what's important to me. Apparently my tastes are growing up (a little).
-Apparently size does matter- for whatever reason the smaller cars just don't appeal to me, nor do 4 doors. The 4 doors don't feel sporty enough, and the roadsters feel too small. The G35 size coup is exactly on target.
-Comfort and "nice little doodads" are a lot more important to me than I thought. I guess I'm just a sucker for buttons and gadgets, but driving that Infiniti got me addicted.
-I am completely over wanting a Mustang. Not just because of the Ford credit thing, but I just realize I want something different from a car than sexy and fun. Obviously I would have said differently two weeks ago.
Bottom line, I think I can probably get a used "Luxury" car pretty well equipped for under 30K if I look hard enough and I will be happy and comfortable with both the car and the payment. I'm going to probably take a few months without a car payment before I take the plunge, but in the mean time I'm going to see what else is out there. There have been a lot of suggestions in this thread, but my focus is now a little more narrow and my goals are different. So I'm humbly going to ask again, but this time here is what I want:
A nice, comfortable car that I can get used for under 30K, is slightly sporty (meaning 2 doors, not 4), is really comfortable, isn't too small (the size of the G35 is perfect), and is well made an will last. Obviously a great sound system is a must (including a way to install an Aux in), and while doodads and gadgets are not strictly important, the certainly can sweeten the deal
Roadsters, wagons, 4 door sedans, and SUVs are all out. Just not what I'm looking for right now.
Are all of the BMW 3 series cars smaller, or do they make some more along the lines of the G35? I'd think that looking at used Audi's might be the way to go; are the models that music mentioned comparable to the G35?
It might seem like I've settled on the G35- truth is I sort of have. After having driven one I basically fell in love. I haven't driven the Audi's or looked at used BMWs yet, though, and I might like one of those even better. Besides, two weeks ago I was settled on getting a brand new Mustang, which I now know would've been a mistake. I'm also not sure I'll be able to find exactly the car I want used, so it'll be helpful to have more options. Thanks for all the help so far- this is an awesome forum.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 17:39
All 3-series BMWs are the same size. The next size up is the 5-series, and they're liable to be too big for you. Also, I don't think that they come as coupes.
Speaking of which, I don't really understand why you're so opposed to 4 doors. Is it that the styling isn't sporty enough or that you think those two extra hinges somehow compromise the car's performance? Actually, you can get a G35 sedan (the "sport" package) that has more power than the G35 coupe.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 17:41
Cool, Lexus makes good cars. I'd recommend them, though I've never been in a G35. My parents have always had a company car, and their last two have been the LS430. Fantastic cars.
The Mini is definitely not what you're looking for if your after a slightly larger car now, but I still recommend test driving one. They're simply a hell of a lot of fun to drive. It's like a long free ride at the go kart tracks.
Posted by: JeffS
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 17:50
Quote:
Is it that the styling isn't sporty enough or that you think those two extra hinges somehow compromise the car's performance?
It's all about the styling and how the car looks to me. My mother in law drives the sedan and I enjoy driving it, but I don't care for the looks as much. No accounting for taste, I suppose, but it seems to me that the G35 couple is perfect cross between "sporty" and "grown up" ("grown up" isn't the right word, but hopefully you'll take my meaning).
I could be swayed on the 4 door thing, but I've been paying attention to cars as I've been driving to work the last few days and I've yet to see a 4 door car I like.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 17:50
Lexus != Infiniti
Lexus is the Toyota luxury marque. Infiniti is Nissan's. And, while we're at it, Acura is Honda's.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 17:52
Okay, that's fair. When I hear "sporty" in reference to cars, I think performance, not looks. But as long as we understand what you mean, there's no problem with preferring a car based on looks.
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 17:59
I'd suggest you go over to
Edmunds or
Yahoo Cars and do some comparisons. I plugged in midsize coupes and very few cars come up. Even fewer when you remove the ones that are over $50k. Basically, you're left with the G35, the Mustang, the Toyota Camry, the Honda Accord, the Pontiac G6, and the Chevrolet Monte Carlo (yuck!).
You might want to check out a new Camry. They changed the styling this year. I think it looks pretty neat, but I've not been in one.
There are other coupes available in the same general size range, but the G35 is just big enough to be classified as a midsize instead of a compact.
Posted by: Waterman981
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 18:49
Quote:
I haven't driven the Audi's or looked at used BMWs yet, though, and I might like one of those even better.
A quick search on Auto Trader you can get 2004 Audi S4's for 30K. It is a 4 door, but not as big as Audi's 6 series. I personally loved the interior styling of the Audi's, which was one selling point for me. You should seriously give one of them a test drive! On my '99 I was able to directly hook my empeg up to the factory speakers/amp with a harness from the UK. Other people hookup a phatbox through the disc changer interface, though I'm not sure on the newer cars.
Posted by: JBjorgen
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 18:59
Although it doesn't meet your 2-door standard, definitely check out the Acura TL. I don't think you'd be disappointed. One of my buddies has one with pretty much all the options and it's a pretty nice ride.
Posted by: Dignan
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 19:23
Quote:
Lexus != Infiniti
Lexus is the Toyota luxury marque. Infiniti is Nissan's. And, while we're at it, Acura is Honda's.
Serious brain fart there. Of course, I know all those company associations. I was mixing Infinity and Lexus in my head, possibly because my parents have had company cars from both. I tend to like the Lexus vehicles more than Inifinity. I wasn't a big fan of the G35. The Q45 was nice, but I still like Lexus more.
Posted by: music
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 20:31
Quote:
I want...
...an Ariel Atom!
Oh wait, I mean the inverse of that. 
Quote:
Are all of the BMW 3 series cars smaller,
Blasphemy!
If you put a 3-series from the last 5 years or so next to one from the 80's, you'll see the new one is about 50% bigger (and about 50% heavier).
Their little sporty car has become a big ol' semi-luxury cruiser.
(Though it still maintains best-in-class performance despite becoming a big fat pig.)
And a more serious answer: you might want to take a look at the 4-door 3-series. It might be just enough bigger and still be sporty enough for you. And also the 2-door might not be as small inside as you think.
Quote:
I'd think that looking at used Audi's might be the way to go; are the models that music mentioned comparable to the G35?
TT coupe might be too small for you (possibly), and the A4 might be too stodgy for you (possibly). But as mentioned above, the S4 might be your "goldilocks" car. (not too hot, not too cold, just right)
It is a good car for a responsible family man who still wants to tear it up occasionally, but can throw a baby seat in the back at other times.
You'll just have to see if the lines of the car look good in your eyes.
All the A4/S4/330ci/G35 are all popular with 25-40 year old techie males for good reasons. So you probably will be happy with any of them.
I immediately ruled out the G35 a few years ago for no other reason than that it was not Empeg-able. But I enjoyed my test drive!
And based on a very limited sample size, I believe the G35 interiors tend to start rattling more than the BMWs when they get older, but that could just be luck of the draw, or difference in my friends' driving habits.
(And ALL cars seem to start rattling apart any more. The price you pay for replacing 50 pounds of screws with little plastic pop rivets.)
Posted by: tanstaafl.
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 27/02/2007 20:52
Quote:
Roadsters, wagons, 4 door sedans, and SUVs are all out. Just not what I'm looking for right now.
Gasp! Heresy! 
tanstaafl.
Posted by: FireFox31
Re: Buying a new car . . . - 01/03/2007 01:47
Ariel Atom is so 2004. Ariel Atom 2, Chevy Cobalt SS engine, eats Hondas for breakfast. According to some magazine I read at the barber. Now THAT'S a car on my must-buy list.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: Buying a new car . . . Porsche perhaps? - 07/04/2007 08:46
My top choices for a two door would definitely be between the BMW 3 series and a Porshe 911, or a Porsche Cayman S.