Down Syndrome (non-troll)

Posted by: wfaulk

Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 14:29

Regardless of the baggage associated with the post, that video about Down Syndrome got me thinking. It was kind of an uplifiting video until it got to the kid who wanted to be a doctor. And then I really considered the fact that that kid will never be able to be a doctor.

I'll admit to not knowing very much about Down Syndrome. But the literature seems to say that they are mentally retarded to a significant degree. And I know I wouldn't want a doctor who was simply an idiot without having a genetic predisposition to it. So why would I want a doctor who had the same level of intelligence, just because he had an "excuse". And even that assumes that a person with lower intelligence could make it through medical school to begin with.

Of course, none of this means that they shouldn't strive to achieve what they can. But, unfortunately, I doubt most of them will be able to achieve those lofty intellectual goals. I'm sure that some will be able to, and we should certainly not assume that just because a person has Down Syndrome that they must be of lower intelligence. After all, if Down Syndrome lowers intelligence by a percentage, there is certainly a large variation in intelligence in the non-Down population, so there's no reason that a "genius" Down sufferer couldn't be far more intelligent than a moderately intelligent non-Down person.

I suppose what it comes down to is that, just as with almost every other human factor, it may indicate a predisposition, but it does not define an individual. Or, at least, it shouldn't.

All that said, though, I do worry about over-egalitarians putting false hope in people. And since Down sufferers tend toward naivete, I'm inclined to say that it's a little worse in that specific case. You don't want to beat down on a person, though, and tell them what they can't do.

Anyone else have any thoughts on it?
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 15:05

People with color blindness aren't allowed to be pilots.
Posted by: LittleBlueThing

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 15:53

So did anyone here want to be an astronaut?

Any astronauts here?
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 15:57

I have some friends who are rocket scientists.
Posted by: RobotCaleb

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 16:39

Quote:
People with color blindness aren't allowed to be pilots.

Sure we are. Just not in all places.
I could get a private license, but I can't be a pilot in the US military.
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 17:01

I think you can't get a commercial license, either.
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 17:06

Regardless, though, of legal bindings, which can just as easily be fraught with prejudice as people themselves, I, for example, cannot be a professional basketball player. I'm simply not coordinated or tall enough to do anything like that. I'm merely incapable. Of course, you can point to people like Muggsy Bogues as counter-examples. (I'm far taller than Muggsy.) But those tend to be very rare exceptions.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 17:42

Quote:
Quote:
People with color blindness aren't allowed to be pilots.

Sure we are. Just not in all places.
I could get a private license, but I can't be a pilot in the US military.

Not according to Wikipedia. They say that even the least restrictive medical certificate for any certified pilot (including Private) requires color vision. I remembered it from an old episode of "Northern Exposure", but wanted to make sure they weren't just propogating a myth, so I checked before posting.
Posted by: DWallach

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 18:31

In order to be a doctor, you have to get into and survive the brutal reality of medical school, residency, and so forth. If somebody can get through that gauntlet, then that means they're good to me.
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 18:51

Yeah. If Doogie Howser can do it...
Posted by: wfaulk

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 19:01

I totally agree. However, I seriously doubt the capability of any but the most exceptional Down sufferer to be able to do that, and, in some ways, propagating the notion that they can is hurtful.

Of course, I have the same feeling about everyone else, too. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as the rest of us.
Posted by: FireFox31

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 26/04/2007 21:24

I agree with Dan. If a man with a prosthetic leg can pass the fire fighter tests, let him do the job (a current case in NJ, I believe). If a woman or gay man can survive military training, let them do the job.

The one thing I fear is the tests being adjusted to make accomodations. I graduated college, but I don't think I should have been able to by any stretch of the imagination. I think a few key things were weighted in my favor which let me sneak through. Should I receive the same job as other college graduates? Um, maybe, kind of.

If accomodations are made for certain people or situations, the checks and balances may incorrectly evaluate the candidates.



To an extreme, this excellent short science fiction work by Kurt Vonnegut was my first exposure to this situation. I'm amazed that after not seeing the text since probably 1995, the keywords I recalled found it as the second (and fourth) result on Google: ballerina head forget science fiction.
Posted by: RobotCaleb

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 27/04/2007 02:17

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
People with color blindness aren't allowed to be pilots.

Sure we are. Just not in all places.
I could get a private license, but I can't be a pilot in the US military.

Not according to Wikipedia. They say that even the least restrictive medical certificate for any certified pilot (including Private) requires color vision. I remembered it from an old episode of "Northern Exposure", but wanted to make sure they weren't just propogating a myth, so I checked before posting.


Keep reading.
Quote:
Restrictions may be placed upon a medical certificate to mitigate any concern for safety. For instance, color-blind pilots are typically issued a restriction reading, "NOT VALID FOR NIGHT FLIGHT OR BY COLOR SIGNAL CONTROL." This mitigates the concern that color-blind pilots may not be able to identify those colors required for the performance of safe airman duties by preventing situations that are considered potentially unsafe.

In many cases, these restrictions can be removed through a "Statement of Demonstrated Ability" (SODA), or a "Letter of Evidence" from the FAA indicating that the pilot's deficiency is of no concern.
Posted by: TigerJimmy

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 27/04/2007 04:30

A friend of mine is a private pilot and red/green color blind. Technically, color-blind people are not allowed even to get a private pilot's license in the US. However, he was able to distinguish red and green runway maker lights and so was deemed not technically color blind.

It took some practice for him to be able to do so. Most green lights for applications like traffic lights or runway lights are made with some blue in them to help color blind people distinguish them from red. This was enough for him to get his license.
Posted by: julf

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 27/04/2007 05:19

Quote:
"NOT VALID FOR NIGHT FLIGHT OR BY COLOR SIGNAL CONTROL."

So if your radio fails mid-air you are suddenly not allowed to fly the plane anymore? (the no-radio landing procedure involves red and green signal lights from the tower - had to use it once, and in the somewhat busy Boston airspace at that).
Posted by: tfabris

Re: Down Syndrome (non-troll) - 27/04/2007 13:32

Quote:
Keep reading.

I stand corrected.