How do you boil water?

Since changing my coffee making routine from drip/filter to French press, I've been boiling a lot of water on the stove.
The container I use is a simple little kettle like my mom always had.
Lately, though, I'm getting rather tired of having the steam flowing across my knuckles as I slowly pour the water.
So, in my research for 'something different', I thought I'd ask the Great and Powerful EmpegBBS! (deep, reverent bow)

Brita filter cordless electric kettle. Are electric kettles not really used in the US?

Electric kettles are not common in the US, but they do exist. They are not as efficient as in the UK because we effectively have half the wattage available to such an appliance because of the lower voltage here. Still, it's preferable to using the stove.

The wife and I have a Braun one similar to the one Trevor linked. The "cordless"-ness is a nice feature.

Yup, we've got a Braun cordless. Does the job nicely, although you do have to be careful to hold the handle lower down to avoid the nasty hot steam coming up from the spout.

This is what I use...

http://www.usa.tiger-corporation.com/products/18

It's nice 'cos you don't have to lift it.

Electric kettles (and now, mostly cordless ones) is how most people in this neck of the woods boil water as far as I know. It's far more efficient than using your stove top - unless you have an induction top.

They're available everywhere and the brands are most definitely widely available in the US as well (they're all American for the most part).

But if you want real coffee you'll throw out that French press and get an espresso machine.

On a similar note, I have, and have tried numerous times, the AeroPress, and frankly, I think it sucks. I don't know why so many people rave about that thing. I'm sorry, but an regular espresso machine (not stove-top moka) is the best all-around machine one could ever own if they like coffee.

Unless of course they prefer the taste of coffee from a French press to the taste of espresso based coffee. Not everyone has tastes that exactly match yours !

I'm not saying it subjectively. It's an objective comment. One is coffee and the other is coffee ground "tea." Might as well use instant. BTW, you can make an "Americano" with an espresso machine - just add more water when you're done.

And, I'm by no means a coffee snob. If you hang out in forums with people who are, it can often get pretty dicey.

Italians may not know anything about wine making, but they can make some nice coffee and coffee machines. Using an espresso machine is faster than a French press and there's also less mess (or and/or items) to clean. For super no-fuss a lot of people really love their pre-pack/pod/puck machines, such as Nespresso, K-Cup, Tassimo, etc...

I'm sorry Bruno, but you are being snob.

It isn't an objective comment at all. Some people simply prefer the taste of coffee made with a French press to coffee made with an espresso. It isn't something that you can make an objective decision about, how could it be any more subjective !

Just because you and I prefer coffee made from espresso in no way changes the FACT that some people prefer the taste of it prepared another way.

And of course it doesn't matter if you have the right machine if you don't know how to use it. I'd far rather have a well made coffee from a French press than the typical espresso I get at people's houses who have an espresso machine and don't know how to use it (which accounts for most of the people I know who have them). I've also never had much luck with people's Nespresso, K-Cup, Tassimo etc machine, them seem capable of creating some pretty lousy coffee (to my tastes at least).

*sigh*

I don't want to argue the definitions of 'coffee' and 'espresso', nor 'objective' and 'subjective'.
I appreciate your enthusiasm for the drink, however, and also all the responses in this thread regarding how to heat water.

One of my requirements for the product is a somewhat low price. I'm afraid I can't spend $50 for a water heating strategy, even if it is the most efficient/fastest/adjustable.
I also require a little flexibility in use- hot water for things other than coffee (egad!), for example. So you see, a dedicated espresso machine is out of the question.

@larry818 The hot water 'pot' is an interesting angle I hadn't though of. I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for something that might work. They seem to be larger than the electric kettles, though, and I rarely would need capacity beyond a quart.

hmm more searching

Thanks very much for the replies!

Ok. Now, I MUST reply to this, because, as an Italian, I simply know about food more than anybody else in the known universe, and particularly I know about coffee and wine.

First of all, your statement about wine making is preposterous. Italian wine is just the Best in the World. French wine, admittedly a competitor, is the "second" best in the world. Maybe. Including Champagne, which is clearly second to Spumante. California wine is of course a fine wine, but not even nearly close to Italian one. And I'll leave our "cousins" French debate about how close it gets to French wine.

Havin clarified the obvious, let's move to Coffee.

Through centuries "real coffee" - which is the Italian, obviously - has been made with this:

or, admittedly, with its "napoletana" version, only used in Naples until mid of last century.

As opposed to the above "caffettiera", you may get a coffee machine ("macchina del caffè") at home, but that is not going to be a "real coffee" at all unless the machine is a really, really good one, capable of good pressure and proper water temperature, somewhat comparable to that of a bar ("Bar" is where you get coffee, as everybody knows. Nothing to do with alcohol, which is indeed also served, there, but as a secondarily important product). Of course, Italian (meanin "in Italy", and Italy only) bars have the best coffee machines, and at home, if you want to get close to that level of quality, you may want to get some good Illy like this one, or other more expensive models. All the rest is just toys for those who "don't know about coffee".

Also, I understand that you call it "espresso machine", as that is a common habit "abroad". "Abroad", in the coffee making universe, means everywhere outside Italy. Please be aware, however, that "espresso" is just normal coffee when taken at a bar round the corner rather than at home. To get what you call an "espresso" in Italy, homeland of coffee, you would just ask for a coffee. Although still served out of courtesy to tourists, all other types are irrelevant and considered "minor", if not ridiculous, as they are "not the real coffee".

Finally, Bruno, should you decide to visit Italy, I would strongly recommend you refrain from such adventurous and incautous comments about coffee and wine in particular, and food in general, if you care to go back to Canada safe and sound. Being Canadian (=from "abroad") you can only know less than anybody else living here. By definition.

And don't even try to argue. You are just wrong as everybody can clearly see. But you may apologize.




P.S.: I don't drink wine much, and know nothing about it. I'm an unusual italian in that. And, in fact I also know little about soccer.:)

Cheaper ones are certainly made. Amazon has a whole water kettle category, with over fifty models under $25.

Regardless, you want something with an immersion heater. It's a lot more efficient to heat the water than heat the container holding the water. I've even seen bare immersion heaters intended to clip directly to a coffee mug. That's probably not a good idea for (what I'm guessing is) a glass coffee press, though.

It certainly appears that Italians are better at making coffee than at using Photoshop

I use, not that exact device, but a similar one from the same manufacturer, and it's great.

Peter

In reality, perspective and shadows are altered by the beauty and perfection of such an historical device.

Good choice. Caffettiera, tipically, is by Bialetti.

Thanks, Bitt!
I did a fair bit of searching on Amazon today, but missed the specific category entirely! Very helpful- mil grazie.

Can you get "fast boil" kettles in the US? If so then get one of those so you don't have to hang around waiting for it.

:P

Italians make arguably the best food and certainly it's my favorite (by far). I'd say it might be tied with France overall though. For me I also quite like many Portuguese dishes and consider the food made in that country, superb. But I'm sorry, Italy is very low down on the list for wine. It just doesn't have enough body. There are some nice Italian wines, but I believe as a whole, that the country is very overrated for wine. Usually by people who don't know anything about wine. A lot of people like Italian wine. But then again, a lot of people also drink white Zinfandel. Italy is certainly above Greece, but France is the KING. And not like Budweiser is the KING of Beer ( it's just the piss of beer). Honorable mention to Spain, Portugal, California (note I didn't use "USA") and Australia. Oh, and if we have to start on another tangent, Belgium is the supreme ruler of Beer. They only make one crap beer in Belgium and thankfully for the Belgians, they probably export it all outside the country. Stella Artois. Worse than piss.

I just had a decent bottle of Chianti for late lunch yesterday in fact. It was 10 years old and I've had it for some 7 or 8 year. For desert I had a 6 year old bottle of Niagara Riesling Icewine - no one makes Icewine like Canada make it. The Germans can go suck it long and hard if they think their Eiswein even comes close. Though Germany does have some great wines, especially in the regions that overlap in character with Alsatian wine (France along the German border).

I'm from Portugal and consider it as much my home as I do Canada, not only because I've spent a lot of time there. Not so much time in Italy, but while I was there I had plenty of wine, food and of course cafe. Here are the places I spent some time in: Verona, Venice Florence, Rome, Pescara, Chieti. I only used the word "espresso" because "coffee" in North America is pretty much a watery tea-like drink.

I have, personally, three different Bialetti "machinetas" at home - my oldest one I've had for perhaps 15 years.



You mean football.

Back to coffee. Yes, the ultimate pressure and temperature control is going to make for an amazing cup, however even a modest home quality machine is going to produce much better coffee than any French Press or drip machine. The worst place around here you'll have coffee is at a restaurant or coffee shop where they don't know how to prime the machine. At home, unless the machine is broken, you'll usually have better. In Italy and Portugal it doesn't matter where you are, the coffee is always going to be good and served properly.

Oh, Italy also has many other areas where its populace excels. Historical art, architecture and of course furniture, interior design, shoes and of course clothing/fashion. You can't have it all.

Hmm do we really have the half the wattage or the voltage? Are you saying that all UK power lines are 230v at 20amps? Or are they really 230v at 10amps which is equal (on a watts basis) to 120v at 20amps..

You'd be surprised. I never used to heat water, but now that I have the air pot, I use it constantly.

Watch the asian supermarkets, they regularly run sales on the air pots (mine is air, it has a pump on it that pressurises the pot to get the water out, the one I bought me mom has an electric pump).

I'm constantly changing how I make coffee, as I get bored with one type all the time. Currently I'm using "3in1" instant from Singapore, which is not as nasty as it sounds. When I'm lazy, I use drip. Mostly I use the espresso machine in a few different ways. I love Vietnamese Cafe Sua Da, which is made with a french press.

And I thought it was obvious that the Mexicans make the best food, followed by the chinese, then the italians.

UK outlets are usually 230V (240V) at 13A, which is 3000W. And electric kettles tend to be 2800-3000W. For whatever reason, most US kettles seem to be 1500W; either your 120V outlets are only 13A (15A?) or someone's being very conservative with a 20A outlet.

Peter

In practice, most new construction has 20A circuits, but the "standard" is 15A, and they don't want people to have to know if they have a 20A or 15A circuit. But they also usually serve more than one outlet, which means that they also want to leave a little power left over to run the clock in the microwave, etc., so as not to trip a breaker in the very likely event that it's not on that circuit by itself.

I don't know if that's the case in the UK. I want to say that you do have dedicated circuits per outlet. Something to do with wiring in old construction and the reason for there being a fuse directly in the plugs?

As you understood, my post was jocking and friendly, and I am perfectly fine if you don't like Italia wine

Obviously it was also a (self)ironic post, as, while there hopefully are not people that extreme and grotesque around, pride for food culture is very Italian and at times it gets a bit too extreme. Which I find narrow minded, to be honest.

It is good what you like. If statistically Italian food, to use your example, is considered good, I am glad, but still, I am perfectly fine if one considers it awful. Taste is a very personal matter, and as long as you're happy with what you eat or drink, and are happy with what others eat or drink, that's all that matters.

That's the reason, though, why I have to disagree when you mention "real coffee" (or "expresso"). American Coffee, or UK Cofee, or French Coffee (they are all different!) are all "good" if you like them, and definitely they are all "real".
I too tend to prefer Italian coffee ("espresso"), but it is just an "accident" that I fall, in this, in what is supposedly the majority. I do know "American Coffee" very well, and in all honesty I like that too quite a lot. It is just a different drink than Italian coffee, and one can drink both.

And, I am perfectly fine if you use the word "espresso" in whatever way you prefer



It is, actually, "macchinetta" singular ("macchinette" plural). It simply means "little machine" (you use the same word in many other contexts) and it is one popular name of the more correct "caffettiera", which is the home coffee maker, tipically by Bialetti, as I said. I am just bringing information you may be interested in, here, not at all meaning you're supposed to spell it right.



No, that would be in the UK. I meant "calcio".
Don't you use the word "soccer", in Canada (as in the US)?


I would not know about how better it is than other types of machines.

I own Bialetti coffee makers of various sizes, as you would expect in a typical Italian house :), but they are not being used much since I got this from Ikea (rebranded. it is actually Whirlpool), few years ago:

It is quite powerful and coffee is really close to that from a bar as I like it.
Not that I like the coffee from the old-fashioned coffee maker less, but this one is fast ("espresso" ;)), and that is convenient in the morning rush
But, it is also quite pricey: 350/400 Euros, circa. It'd better work well and for years to come.
It is indeed possible that less expensive ones are just as good, but I've often been disappointed with other coffee machines friends have, so decided to invest a bit more on it, as I use it quite a lot.

I am now planning to buy an American Coffee machine, also, but I haven't made any research on that, yet

We do weird things with a ring circuit so you can use thinner cable is the reason I was told. My house has two socket circuits. One for upstairs and one for the ground floor. Each one has a 32A MCB protecting it.

In Canada, by code, kitchen counter outlets are 20A, standard outlets (hallways, living rooms, bedrooms, etc.) are 15A.

Just buy this, it makes american coffee...

https://shop.melitta.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=64+008&Cat=

I actually have a percolator, which I like to use once in a while. That would be "american" coffee from the pre-drip era.

Wow, this was probably the hottest thread on this forum in a long while

My wife and I have two electric kettles. Our first one was a Krups similar to this one, but all silver-colored. Our second one, which I like even more, was distributed by Adagio Teas (I don't know who makes it). I like it because I can choose various rough temperatures to bring the water too, which helps with green teas and the like. (by the way, Adagio is my favorite tea store - there's a Teavana near us but it's priced waaaay higher).

What's funny is that we actually use the electric kettles even more often to boil water for cooking. We use a very large pot to boil water for pasta, and with just the stove it takes an eternity (about 25 minutes) to bring it to a boil (I think it reasonably/safely holds up to 12 cups of water). Using both our kettles and a small amount heating in the pot, I'm usually able to get a boil in about 10 minutes or less.

But we love these kettles for tea. It's perfect for a large number of people. We registered for a traditional stove-top tea kettle when we got married, and someone got it for us, but sadly it's remained entirely decorative the entire time we've lived here

Does anyone know how to clean these kettles though? I don't think they'd do well in the dishwasher...

Also, what do you all think about plastic vs stainless? It seems to me that it's worthwhile getting stainless just to be certain there's no plastic leeching into the water. Besides, I'd think it would heat faster. I know my Adagio kettle heats really quickly.

~groan~

Soaking with white vinegar is usually the recommended trick to loosen lime deposits.

I've seen this come up in a number of reviews on Amazon. Some of the plastic kettles seem to give a serious plastic taste to water, even after several boiling cycles. I think going full stainless would be the easy way to avoid the issue entirely.
The other thing that concerned people is insulation. Is the outside of the kettle too hot to touch? Does the water cool off quickly after the kettle shuts off?

Plenty of things to think about.

I buy the descaler kits from the grocery store if I need to do it. I don't need to do it often though.


My kettle is mostly plastic and I can't taste a thing.


Again, this is with a plastic kettle but yes it is hot but there is a big handle to hold the kettle with. The water takes a while to cooldown.

Whats funny about that? It is more efficient to do it that way than to pour cold water into a pan first.


Plastic vs metal doesn't affect the heating time.

Wow. $3? So, you just lay the coffee thing in it, and then poor hot water through it?
I suppose the ones you see around just have a water tank and warm it up as well, am I right? Do they do anything else?

You need to put a filter in it and it makes only one cup. I find it better than owning a drip machine.

Yeah, the drip machines are essentially this. They heat the water and run it through a larger version of the same filter, and heat the pot as well.

The Melitta is nice if you have an air pot or electric kettle...

BTW, the air pot is on all the time and it's well insulated. Since it's completely sealed, it doesn't lose water. My electric kettle had to be turned on when you wanted hot water.

Woah! That's an even bigger problem than I thought!


Well, it's not that funny in our household, I just find it amusing that these kettles seem to be designed to boil water to drink, not to heat up our water before boiling it. But like I said, that's how I use it. Sorry it wasn't amusing


My parents, when they redid their kitchen about 7 years ago, installed an "insta-hot." It was just a spigot to the side of the sink that gave filtered water at temps of either room temperature or near-boiling hot. It was pretty nice to have very hot water at any time, but sadly the device was a little more troublesome than it was worth. For starters, apparently the way the filter let you know that it needed to be changed was to completely back up and leak absolutely everywhere. This happened twice. Then after a while, the device its self decided to leak, so we had to have it replaced. Hopefully the new homeowners haven't had any challenges from it...

If you're in a hurry...

tanstaafl.

At work we've got a Zip Hydroboil which certainly does the job -- the water's hot enough for tea -- but in a way it's almost too good. Having, essentially, a button I can press any time to get a proper cup of tea makes me feel a bit like I'm in some sort of scientific study of tea addiction, like one of those lab rats with push-button access to cocaine...

Peter

I have a Gaggia Titanium, which I think TayM will recognise as being in the top of the home ranges, it grinds the beans and does everything else except drink it for you, it's on a level with reataurant or coffee bar machines, to my taste.
However, one of the mysteries of life is why French coffee made in a cafetiere (A british invention, incidentally!) in France tastes absolutely cosmic: You can bring the coffee back with you, but it just doesn't taste the same at home.
I regret that I can't agree that cafetiere coffee is any better or worse than espresso, it's just different and suits many people's tastes.
Anybody want to get in to the mysteries of good tea making?
I don't get the criticism of Italian wines, which cover just as broad a spectrum as those from other countries: I probably do equal French, Italian, Spanish and Chilean and enjoy them all equally - if there's anything I don't like, it's American or Australian and, in particular, oaked wines: Maybe they just keep the best for themselves.

Indeed. Gaggia is usually considered an excellend coffee machine manufacturer, and yours in particular is actually well known to be a star among coffee machines


I hope I did not start a food/drink competition among EU countries. I was just being funny, purpose being exactly the opposite!


I agree. I've been to Paris 2 or 3 times a year in the last 4 years, for work, and I definitely enjoy French coffee from any Cafeterie around. It is a similar way to drink it to the Italian, incidentally: small cup, you can have it in cafeterie round the corner pretty much anywhere, they make it quickly and you usually drink it while standing at the bar.
It is not as strong and concentrated as the Italian version, and you will find more of it in the cup. Still very good!

Incidentally, "espresso" means "quick, fast". So, "Caffè espresso", here in Italy where the expression originated, simply meant - and still means - a "quick coffee", and it refers to bar coffee, which, given the power and pressure of the machines, is prepared in 1 minute or so, as opposed to the traditional caffettiera ("macchinetta") at home, which takes longer - you need to wait that the water boils and then filters up through the coffee powder tank.
The idea is that you may just step in a bar for 5 minutes during the work day, get a coffee, in 1 minute, leave.



Yes, I find that a mysterious phenomenon that actually happens with every bar here. No matter how good your home coffee machine is, you can only hope to get close to what they make at the bar. I can't explain why. It must be some coffee magic law.


I'd love too . Will I need some dedicated device?

My grandmother always swore that tea only tasted at its best at, or near, sea level and she never washed her tea(or coffee) pot, throughout her married life.
Common wisdom is: It should be made with freshly drawn, freshly boiled water and left to brew for at least 6 minutes. It used to be said that tea bags were made out of the dust and residue, but I think that those days are past, I held on to leaf tea and a strainer until about five years ago.
However my tea making is very straightforward

Speaking of which, I love these types of devices for looseleaf tea. We have two in our home that get used regularly.

This is certainly the case. Even a few degrees' difference in the boiling point of water, caused by the lower atmospheric pressure at altitude, changes the extraction of flavour chemicals from the tea-leaves. Which is a shame, as just after climbing a mountain is exactly when you most want a cup of tea.

Peter

So all we need is a device that boils water cocooned within a vessel that creates the atmospheric pressure of sea level, is cheap and portable, patent it and sit back with the proceeds!
My grandparents retired to Seaford, I don't know whether you've ever been, but, from my very bored childhood experience, it seems a heck of a high price to pay for a perfect cup of tea!

Um, how about a lid? I'm sure that steam pressing against the weight of a lid can compensate for several thousand feet of altitude.

Okay, after some calculation, I'm totally wrong. A lid couldn't compensate for more than a few hundred feet, unless the vessel was quite small.

Still, a pressure cooker would work. Pressure cookers for canning even already have a pressure gauge attached.

The poor souls, what a way to go.

You can just put something heavy on top of the lid.

The air pots have a boil button that will freshly boil the contents just prior to use. It's temp controlled to go to something like 102°c.

Hold on to your Gaggia, I understand it's now a division of Philips, and the Dutch, although an admirable nation in many respects, are not, to my knowledge, noted coffee makers!

The biggest headline, and greatest excitement in the town, I can remember was when the waves swept an old dear on a bicycle of the front in mid-winter: I think that the geriatrics were putting the constabulary under pressure to arrest the wave for manslaughter - as you say: What a way to go - and what a place to go to, I've only once been back in recent years, and nothing's improved!

Off to the local hostelry now, for a couple of pints of Adnams, and a fine bottle of Italian wine!

We have friends who moved to Seaford to be near an ageing parent. The town council appear to make a deliberate attempt to make the place as grim and as unwelcoming as possible to keep tourists away.

They had their first carnival for years the other year. The "parade" consisted of half a dozen private cars, one 12 piece marching band and dozen bikers on Harleys. It took a full 120 seconds to pass us.

The whole carnival parade is visible in this shot:




Still at least there is some stunning countryside around it.

Philips won't necessarily trash Gaggia's know how. If so, there are other brands you may consider. Besides the Illy ones, this one is usually very recommended, even though I never tried one or tasted coffee made with it: http://www.lapavoni.it/ .
Unfortunately, and expectedly, inacceptably expensive. But still, Gaggia is not cheap.
La Pavoni is, in fact, producer of several bar-type coffee machine. With one of those you would definitely have a great coffee at home. But you may need a coffee room as well, given their size.

I can get the aged parents moving there, but to take yet another generation in to the pit is above and beyond the call of family loyalty.
An appaling anecdote:
I went to a heritage railway and the guy showing us round said: This is one of the original Highland railway Pullman cars from 1872.
I said, yes, but from the late 20's to the 50's it was part of a bungalow in Seaford and it's only because my Uncle Roger found it that you now have it!

lol

Back to the subject:
My grandmother, made great coffee in a milk saucepan on the stove, by simmering Lyons ground coffee, I'm not sure for how long, she then tranferred it to the coffee jug, which she never washed, as previously mentioned, but added a substantial pinch of Colemans powdered mustard - which she regarded as her secret ingredient.

N.B. We didn't have Italian, they had a deal on South African which filled the spot, more than adequately.

Huh. That is a strange ingredient. The heat will alter the mustard so that its not actually hot. I wonder what particular flavour it contributes to the tea.

Sure they do. Right now, the best wines we've ever tasted were all made in Italy, from Italian grapes. Totally excellent stuff for our palettes, and 100% organic too.

Edit: We're not wine snobs, but we do select and consume a fair bit of the stuff, from most regions around the planet.

Cheers

That is a very recent change to the electrical code. As little as perhaps 10 years ago, only 15A was required for kitchen outlets, with no more than two single-plug receptacles per 15A breaker.

That rule was extremely onerous, requiring typically about six circuit breakers for just the countertop outlets in a modest kitchen. Which is probably why the code got changed.

Cheers

One Canadian empeg bbs user (I forget who) bought a cheapo UK kettle (probably a Tesco Value jobby) and had a 220V outlet wired into their kitchen so they could use it at full speed.

Man that would be sweet. All my outlets are on a single 20a breaker, including the clothes washer and drier, and bathroom.
We definitely have to manage what's on.

Pretty sure that was Mark.

Yeah, that was SWMBO & I. The five quid kettle we purchased was pretty darned similar to the one you linked, too! We also picked up a 240V UK outlet for it, and wired it into our kitchen over here. Sein later helped us out with a nicer looking version of the outlet.

That looks to be the exact same kettle I had in Singapore. It was like 8 usd there.

And it's not just you, taym and I:
"Just ourselves and a flask of Italian wine"
-a dinner invitation from Oscar Wilde, amongst a collection of letters published for the first time today!

I'd be very honored to be included in such fine company :), but again, my original post was mostly meant go give you all a good laugh.

In reality, I am a little wine drinker and don't know enough to decide whether wines made here in Italy are good or bad. I don't particularly like wine in general (I know, in that I am such a waste here in Italy :D).
Indeed, market worldwide seems to agree with you and Mark and Oscar Wilde.

....and I'm sure that's how most of us took it, after all, it's the only type of post that comes from this clapped out old.........Dell!