Ah, so that is how apple will be handling the Lightning->USB3 change.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/11/app...o-the-ipad-pro/

Okay, so they'll release a "Lightning 2" cable, which will look almost exactly the same as the original Lightning cable? If only there was a standard connector that would have satisfied their needs...

Finally! I'm not in the market for an iPad Pro, but I do in intend to buy a new phone next year. Hopefully they'll implement it in the upcoming iPhone 7 as well.

Which didn't exist when then created the Lightning connector. And if they just moved to USB-C now the Internet would erupt with untold rage.

I still don't think that's true. Even if it is, we know that people will get over it eventually, and the final result will be better for everybody.

If Apple switches the iPads over to USB C (still highly unlikely in my mind for anytime in 2015-2017), I hope Apple keeps the MFi program around so I know what charger cables will work.

Did you not spot the rage last time when they changed connector after 14 years of using the same one (in the same time that most manufacturers moved through a couple of proprietary connects and at least three different USB ones).

I did see that, and I probably gave them a hard time. My point is that people got over it, and did so surprisingly quickly considering everything you just said. And things are better now, aren't they?

But really, I've finally gotten myself to the point where it doesn't bother me. In the end it doesn't affect me. The rest of the market will settle around USB C so I can plug my Android phone into my Dell laptop. The only place it'll annoy me is our kitchen counter, where we have to keep two chargers instead of one. Again, not the end of the world.

People are noticing the Lightning socket on the iPad Pro has pins on the top and bottom. All past Lightning sockets only have pins on one side. That would provide the needed amount of connections to support USB 3 while remaining backwards compatible with USB 2.

iFixit continues to miss these details in their teardowns. They also missed how the WiFi antenna functions on the Macbook.

This is fascinating news, but I'm making my brain hurt trying to figure out how they're going to use 8 pins for differing purposes on a reversible connector.

Remember there is a chip inside every Lightning plug. I imagine that chip will be responsible for negotiating with the device to decide what pins to run each signal over as appropriate, part of which will change based on the orientation of the plug.

Did you ever see how the Lightning to VGA or HDMI adaptors work? They have a full SoC in them, and the device it's plugged into sends a slimed down kernel to that SoC to boot it quickly and launches an AirPlay daemon.


As an aside about the likely lifespan of Lightning for the iPhone. Rumors are currently pointing towards the iPhone 7 ditching the 3.5mm headphone jack. Headphones would plug in via Lightning instead, and such headphones have already been out for a while. Not sure I agree with the rumors, but also wouldn't put it past Apple to do this. The 3.5mm jack is already somewhat awkwardly added into the current iPod Touch and iPod Nano.

Wow. That's going to piss of a lot of people if it comes true. Some people have favorite headphones.

A bit of a thread hijack here... sorry.

The purported reason for ditching the 3.5mm jack is so that Apple can make the iPhone even slimmer than it is now. Okay... WHY??

I am not a smartphone (or really, even any genre of cell phone) user, but if I were, I would happily pay extra to have a cell phone twice as thick as an iPhone IF that extra volume were devoted exclusively to extra battery. Wouldn't tripling (or more) the battery life be worth giving up the stylistic status of a skinny phone? Or is there some other benefit I don't understand?

tanstaafl.

I suspect the thinking is:

• The battery has to have sufficient capacity to last an entire 12-hour workday.
• Users always plug the phone in at home each evening.
• Making the battery/phone any larger than necessary for the above just adds bulk and weight, making it less convenient to tuck into a clutch-purse or pocket.

Or something like that. But mostly, I suspect Apple just wants to be able to make more moollah by forcing earbud makers to buy/license yet another proprietary interface.

Cheers

I'm sure Apple knows best. Like when they moved the earphone jack to the bottom, but not make the music app rotate, so one gets to enjoy everything upside down when on exercise machines... I'm sure this is best somehow...

You can do so today, as third parties sell cases for the phone with a battery in them.

I made use of one during my motorcycle trip. On the bike, the phone was plugged into power and sat in a form fitting mount. When I'd spend a long time in a city, I'd put the phone into the Mophie case. It provided the extra battery power needed to use GPS along with the camera most of the day. Both these functions can be big power drains on a phone. When I didn't need the extra power, the phone could go back to it's slimmer and lighter profile in my pocket.

Lightning to 3.5mm adaptors would likely become more common. 3rd party ones already exist, with that model also offering a headphone amp and remote control options. Apple may bundle an adaptor in the box considering how many of their own Beats headphones use 3.5mm plugs.

One of the theories about this was related to water resistance. Many people use their phones while waking. If the headphone jack is on the top and not in use, it's a gaping hole that could let in raindrops. I remember Apple Geniuses were trained to look for the moisture sensor in the headphone jacks on the older iPhones as part of any troubleshooting.

On the bottom, it's somewhat shielded. I was looking up waterproof 3.5mm jacks earlier, and the raw parts for this were about 9-10mm in height when mounted to a PCB. The iPod touch is at 6.1mm and the iPhone 6 at 7mm, not really leaving room for one of these waterproof designs for the jack.

The iPhone 6 and 6s show hints that Apple is working to improve the water resistance of the product. Improvements between the 6 and 6s in particular were examined by iFixit on a second teardown.

I had assumed it was moved to the bottom because the phone always ends up in my pocket upside-down. It is more convenient in that regard.

Wouldn't that preclude charging while using the headphones? That seems like a bad idea (but, I'm probably not the target audience).

Charging is one of the many issues that it would cause. Maybe the iPhone 7 will have so-called wireless charging too ?

We'd also need a completely different Lightning plug to come even close to how well a right angle 3.5mm one can work when jammed into a pocket.

https://twitter.com/andynormancx/status/671050131526066176

On the bottom works far better for me, for this reason.

Indeed. It's pissed me off to such a degree that I've just ordered my first Android phone. A One Plus X. I'm curious to learn how good it works.

As a general, I like Apple. But there are some things I really hate about them, and I'm not even talking about the price. The thing I hate the most is how they've started crippling their hardware lately, just to sell more add-on cables. Like the new Macbook that's only got ONE USB-C connector. Whoever came up with that one and thought it was a good idea? And now this again with the headphone jack? Ugh! They can ask a price premium for all I care, but I draw the line where they charge more for you to get less in the end.

Enough hatred to lead to a platform switch over a rumor about a 3.5mm headphone jack? Isn't that a little extreme?

Really. Just use bluetooth headphones.

I hate Apple. I really hate itunes on the pc. I really like my iphone 6+.

Heh, I can see why you would think that. Indeed, I had been glancing at Android phones for a while now and just needed a good excuse I guess. On the other hand, that 3.5" jack rumor came from a source that has been right in the past. So I believe there is a good chance this rumor may be correct also. Apple hasn't been that good at keeping their secrets a secret the last couple of years. Lately, almost all new features of their products were already disclosed before the actual presentation.

Google for "iPhone 7 3.5mm Jack" and you'll get more than two million hits. Where there's smoke there's fire, maybe.

tanstaafl.

I don't know if you meant that seriously or ironically. If you meant it seriously...

The same people who have favorite headphones and who need that 3.5mm jack, they are also likely to care about audio quality. I personally have found that Bluetooth headphones insert a certain amount of data compression artifacts into the audio stream, enough to be noticeable. I haven't looked up the specification details, but to my ear, it appears to be something slightly worse than MP3 128kbps compression when I listen that way.

I still find Bluetooth audio and headphones to be useful in many situations. I just know that some folks would consider the removal of the headphone jack a problem because of audio quality issues.

Going back to something Doug brought up:



I'm with you there, Doug. I think that their market research is probably showing that people want their phones to be slim so that they easily fit in their pockets without being bulky. I think, though, that they've successfully slimmed the phones enough that now they could start to fatten them up a bit to improve battery life.

Of course, some manufacturers make aftermarket "battery cases" which do exactly that: A thicker case around the phone which contains a buffer battery. Don't know how well they work.

Understandable. I still dabble and poke at the other platforms out of curiosity. Just recently had a Samsung Galaxy S6 on loan for a month for $1. I think part of my reaction lately is realizing my own failings where I've let irrational hatred guide my actions in the past, and it's usually not led to good areas. Take my reply as more of a gentle nudge to make sure some curiosity of Android is also there for a more pleasant experience


That's part of why I hedged my own statement earlier with "I wouldn't put it past Apple to do this". I've also believed some Apple rumors in the past that didn't come to fruition, so I tend to play a wait and see attitude these days. Sometimes the rumors are true at the time, then a change happens to invalidate the rumor.

Apple is leaky with the iPhone hardware due to the scale of that operation, as the leaks come from the supply chain. I've also seen them get better at secrecy in many other areas, more so then the Jobs era. Swift being one of the big "where did that come from" reveals lately. That caught a lot of people inside Apple by surprise due to how secret it was. And now it's at the opposite end of the spectrum, what I'd consider "open" to be, and it's past the "openness" of AOSP.

There is only one source of the rumor though. All those google results are people discussing the one source. Or web blogs capitalizing on the opportunity for more ad revenue. Apple news sells, accurate or not. If there's no rumors to generate ad revenue, there's always something to spin into a "-gate" controversy. Much like a broken clock being right twice a day, sometimes these rumors or controversies speak to the truth or scope the problem appropriately.

Once the iPhone 7 case goes into mass production likely in the Spring of 2016, then I'll start putting a little more faith behind this being true. At that point multiple sources could appear from the leaky supply chain.

Theorizing here, the audio quality crowd might be applauding if this rumor is true. It would allow the signal to remain digital all the way across the wire to the headphones and utilize a good DAC inside the headphones closer to the speakers.

Though it looks like the DAC inside the iPhones is already pretty good. With only rumors, and a handful of Lightning headphones in existence, hard to tell what would be better currently.

I sometimes wonder if my replies are invisible around here

I thought that was an excellent promotion from Samsung, that $1 for a month of use thing. If something like that had existed over here, I surely would have taken them up on it too.

Of course, this is not about true hatred. Hatred is such a strong word anyway, very much overused (I'm guilty of that too)
I think I read it best just this week, when I read someone claiming that "every system has its pros, it's just about how much you can live with the cons". I think this is very true.
For me:
Apple: very stable, very secure, just works. Cons: not much freedom of movement because Apple dictates it all (but this is probably necessary to make it "just work"), sometimes fewer features because of that, price.
Android: pros: more freedom, cheaper (though not with the true high-end models anymore, like eg. the new Nexus 6P) cons: not as secure, higher learning curve.(though I guess this is getting a lot better with recent Android builds)

I'm not considering other OS'es like Windows phone, Ubuntu or Firefox.


Even more, I think if any company would "dare" to do this, it would be Apple. But indeed, wait and see is the best policy I guess.

And now Apple sells their own.

For an Apple product, that is shockingly ugly.

If there's one thing we've learned over and over again, it's that the audiophile community is so small as to be meaningless to the likes of Apple and Google. The majority of smartphone buyers just don't care. From low bitrate to bluetooth audio, people want convenience far more than audio quality. Have you seen how many LG Tone headphones are out there now? I see them more than Beats headphones now.

And speaking of Beats, I'll bet that if this rumor is true, when they announce the iPhone 7 you might see a line of Beats headphones with the lightning jack built in. Or perhaps a model with a swappable cable.

Back on point. Tony, have you tested any bluetooth 3 or 4 headphones? I'd be interested in knowing if the audio quality has improved. From what I've read, it's something they were focusing on in versions 3/4. I'm an LG Tone owner, and my bluetooth 3 headphones (with "aptX" or whatever) sound pretty darn good.

I'm in the unusual (for me) position of defending Apple on this one I wouldn't care if the headphone jack went away. The one concern I'd have is that if you were to move to using the lightning for headphones, it might put too much additional stress on that connection.


Bluetooth headphones are just soooo much more convenient. The only drawback is having another device to charge, although I get really great battery life with mine.

Every time I've used headphones to listen to stuff around the house during chores, I end up getting the cord snagged on something. If I'm doing the dishes, I'll get caught on a drawer pull three or four times. My LG Tone headphones are one of my top 10 favorite gadgets I own.

It doesn't bug me too much. My guess is that they went for the bump in order to get a unibody design and not mess with the camera area too much.

You don't say, that may well be the ugliest bit of hardware Apple have ever made. That is shockingly bad.

Bringing the thread full circle, the first USB 3.0 speed Lightning product. Lightning to SD card reader.

No, I saw it! First thing I thought of when I read Tony's post.

Of course, not having a cell phone, and not caring if Apple gets rid of their headphone jack, I'm only really reading this thread in case there are any good digressions.

If work didn't force me to have a cell phone, I wouldn't have one either. People do seem to get a kick out of my (work provided) flip phone, though.

Semi-seriously. For the last few years I've been using wireless Sennheiser headphones that are really a work of crap. My daughter's no brand bluetooth headphones sound fantastic in comparison.

The headphone jack removal rumor keeps bubbling up in places as it moves through the layers of reporting. A podcast I listen to brought up another angle.

A headphone jack on the outside looks like a circle, and often on phones is helping to illustrate the thickness of the device. It's important to also remember it's a cylinder needing to occupy a fair amount of internal space. That plug and jack has already shrank from it's origins from the quarter inch (6.35mm) size to the mini headphone jack popularized I believe by the Walkman.

Getting rid of that intrusion into the interior space of the phone would allow a battery to increase in volume without changing the thickness of the device.

iFixit's teardown of the iPhone 5s has a good photo illustrating this. The headphone jack is on the bottom left, and the top of it touches the battery. It looks like design wise that dictated some other factors there, with some space on the right side being used for the speaker cavity. The iPhone (and many other devices) avoids placing the headphone jack directly under the screen.

Current Apple rumors claim that an iPhone 5 sized device is going to return to the lineup with iPhone 6/6s like features for those who prefer smaller devices. There's a chance this headphone rumor might be verified as true for that device first in March, ahead of a possible iPhone 7 later this year.

The mini size was used by most of the "transistor" pocket radios of the 1950s.

Oops, right. Looked up the Walkman again, I was misremembering the dual mini headphone jacks it launched with, which in some places popularized shared private listening.

I didn't remember that about it. I had the recording walkman, which I sneaked into concerts. Wonderful stuff, Sony. I pretty much only used it for recording, and it broke probably before 100 usages, while being treated like glass. Of course everything Sony makes is unrepairable...

My daughters sure have it good. iPhones with bluetooth earbuds, they can listed to music all day in high school. In my day, headphones were huge and music sources were the size of bricks. Very hard to conceal from even the most tedious of teachers.

Mainly it was moved because the "forehead" area is very busy. There's the driver ledge (with the glass-mounted chip that drives the display), two cameras, the earpiece (complete with hearing aid compatibility, which means a bigger coil), antennas for gps, wifi, bluetooth and cellular (secondary TX, because transmitting out the bottom is better for SAR as it's further from your head), proximity sensor, several microphones and loads of flexes.

Much easier to have it down in the main antenna area where the main occupants are antennas, menu/touch button, lightning connector, speaker+acoustic volume and a mic. Less flexes, more room in general.