Timing Belt

Well, I got my timing belt done by the Honda dealership (actually it's two belts: Timing belt and Balance Shaft belt, both need the same level of attention).

The recommended interval for the belt change is 105,000 miles. I did it at 222,000 miles. I knew I was risking bent valves or worse every day. I knew I was on borrowed time. It was a load off my mind to get this done finally.

Just for chuckles, I had them give me the ones they took off. Just because I wanted to see what they look like when they've been on the car for more than twice as long as they're supposed to have been.

The belts
look.
brand.
new.

But you can't see the condition of the kevlar (or what ever they used inside). Belts typically look brand new up until the second they shred.

I replace my belts every 80k.

Well, better safe than sorry, particularly with an "interference engine" like yours, where the engine basically grenades itself if the timing belt fails.

Meanwhile (thread hijack!) our 2008 Audi A3 had the right headlight fail. It's one of these xenon things that can change its direction and look left/right as you turn the steering wheel. Anyway, the bulb is now intermittently flickering and, when it comes on, it's pink rather than white. Not good.

Okay, I thought, I'll just order a new bulb and replace it. Easy, right? Ha! Apparently the only way to get to the bulb requires removing the front bumper. It's not a five minute job like on previous cars I've owned. No, this is a multi-hour odyssey. Also, apparently they had an unusually high failure rate and Audi was doing replacements free of charge if they failed in 4 years / 50,000 miles. The car is now 8 years old, so that's not going to fly either.

Arrrgh.

My older 2003 Audi A3 failed Xenon front light would have costed me € 1200 to replace from the official Audi shop, if I had decided to do so. It would occasionally (rarely, admittedly) turn off, only to resume working next time I started my car.

€ 1200.

Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

Well to be fair to them, the idea is that the xenon lamps are supposed to last the lifetime of the car, so they don't really plan for them to be quick to replace, in the same way many other components that aren't expected to be changed are also a pain to get to.

More shocking is when you also come across cars with normal bulbs that take major disassembly to change a bulb, there are a few cars from Renault and Peugeot where that is the case.

Changing the side lights on my Impreza doesn't involve too much disassembly, but it does take me 40 minutes every time I do it, as they are a real pain to reach. I thought I'd be clever and replace them with LED ones that would last longer. The first LED failed weeks after fitting it

WOW.



I wonder if you could argue with them that it's a safety issue and that they should do it anywyay.

I hope the weenie middle manager who made the final call on that design choice is getting a ton of instant karma these days.

There's a fairly recent Chevy that requires removing the entire front clip to replace the headlight bulb.

Other amazing design choices coming soon to products near you:

- Changing a tire requires uninstalling the engine.

- Must remove driver's seat to change the oil.

- Must unscrew the front panel of TV to change the volume.

- Must uninstall central heating unit to change the filter.

- Cannot clean rain gutters: Must purchase new house instead.

- Cell phones and laptops whose batteries cannot be replaced by the user.

Part of the sales pitch for my fancy mid-life crisis bicycle was that the belt drive was the same sort of belt used in car timing belts, so it'd essentially never wear out. If the car has travelled 80,000km, how far has the timing belt travelled? (On the bicycle the belt probably travels about 1km for every 10km cycled -- if it's engineered to last 800,000km of cycling then it should cheerfully see me out.)

Peter

"Mid-life crisis bicycle" is the name of my Jimmy Buffett cover band.

Okay, now I just spent 15 minutes reading up on belt drives. Long lasting. Quiet ride. Require custom frames because you can't just unlink and relink like a chain. Oh, and complicated power transfer, i.e., sometimes a lot less efficient than a chain, sometimes a lot better.

I've been wanting to buy a shaft drive bike, because quirky.

I had the same experience when I changed the timing belt on a Corolla with 225k miles on it. Looked nearly brand new. Guess sometimes you get lucky right?

I guess timing belts are a good source of revenue for car companies/dealers. I never had to "maintenance change" a timing chain. Plus I imagine they are cheaper. Especially for overhead cam engines.

I hope you realize that you and Tony have caused logistical problems for your respective dealers. You and Tony kept your old belts, thus preventing the dealer from installing those belts on a subsequent car that comes in for a replacement. Because of your thoughtlessness, the poor dealer will have to come up with another belt for the next customer, possibly (heaven forbid!) having to take a new one out of stock.



tanstaafl.

They are cheaper and quieter than chains. Also, there have been quite a few chain engines (mostly German, some Japanese) that the metal chains didn't last any longer than rubber belts do.

Yes, there are bad chains. However in general a chain should last the life of a vehicle and they are not viewed as a maintenance item. Companies will definitely go with a cheap chain if they can. It just seems "convenient" that a belt's recommended life span ends just when a car usually goes out of warranty (100k miles).

Maybe they are quieter but next to the noise of an internal combustion engine it seems negligible.

A high quality double roller chain is the next best thing to gear drive, IMO.

A discussion - http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/2711/timing-chain-vs-timing-belt

That's a very interesting discussion of the tradeoffs. I hadn't thought about wear on the chain and gear sprockets causing a timing chain to loosen over time. I could see how that would make the timing sloppy over time, whereas a belt will keep perfect timing right up until the point where it breaks. Really really interesting. Thanks!

Volvo went from a flat tooth belt to a round tooth one, with a noticeable reduction in noise. Every little bit helps.

Read up on all the troubles Nissan had with the Leaf, with no engine noise, every other little thing became irritating.

I recently replaced my wireless Sennheiser headphones with really good Bose, and I found a lot of the vids I was watching on youtube have really horrible sound. The Sennheisers hid this well.

Yes, stretching is a drawback but usually in a daily driver the timing change is negligible. In rare cases I've heard of them actually jumping a tooth. But that is in a neglected vehicle with many hundreds of thousands of miles on it. Still, whenever I do a rebuild I use a quality double roller chain just to get that extra.

I kind of like gear drives on street machines because it sounds like you have a blower stuffed under the hood. Makes people wonder.

My employer has been buying shaft drive bicycles to replace the current crop of chain driven bikes as they wear out. They are defenatly better than the worn out bikes. Not so sure the are better than a new chain drive bike would have been.

Where do you work that has a fleet of bicycles?

ha ha ha ha ha ha


Oh man, Tony, you had me rolling around on the floor with your amazing design choices


hee hee hee

LLNL The site is 1 mile x 1 mile square. Bikes are available as a means of transport building to building. The site has its own taxi service as well.

What brand of shaft bike are they buying? I'm curious how the longevity will be.

I'll have to check on that after the new year.

I just re-watched Doctor Who "The Waters of Mars" episode last night, and it had a small joke or two about this kind of thing.

I have a gear drive diesel in my Landcruiser but all you hear is the direct injection rattle .

A friend was telling me that on his truck (F150 maybe?) any time the dealer works in the engine compartment, they just unbolt the chassis from the frame and lift it aside to get to the compartment because it is easier and faster than not doing so.

I thought he was nuts, but maybe not.

Dropping the frame? Makes sense if they needed to r&r either the engine or tranny. If you have the lifts, it's easier than hoisting the motor out the top.

The mechs at the dealerships don't do anything unless it reduces time spent on the job.

I think he meant they lift the body/cab away from the frame/engine.

When I was little I had a toy articulated lorry where the cab part hinged forward to show the little toy engine. I sort-of assumed this was some crazy idea of the toymaker's, and was gobsmacked the first time I saw a real lorry doing it.

Peter

Hoods are so small now I think most motors come out the bottom.

Every time I see that, I imagine all the stuff in the cabin falling forward onto the windshield and control console. Sort of like the automotive equivalent of this.

I would just hate to have not latched the cab and have to hit the brakes hard. I imagine that's not possible but I sure would fill my pants if it happened.

Yeah, about that: https://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/forms-an...abins-on-trucks

Oh MY God - is truly my reaction.

Yeah, that is what I meant. Just to change the oil they do that because it is so cramped in there (again, going by what he said).

Sounds like a hack. I hope they aren't over stretching all the connections while lifting the body. This just to give a bit more access when changeing an oil filter.

Taking apart portions of a car that are not intended to be frequently disassembled, doesn't make sense at all.

Here is a brief discussion on it.

That forum site had this problem, but once I got past that issue, it was an interesting discussion. If it's only four bolts and six harnesses, if I had the shop crane to lift the cab, then heck yeah I'd pull the cab to do even small stuff. If it takes ten minutes to pull the cab to save me 30 minutes of headache on the job itself, no question.

Rugged cycles seem to be the supplier. All the bikes I looked at had LLNL logos on them, and no vendor markings. RC's web site isn't geared for retail. They appear to be aimed at selling fleets of bikes configured however the buyer wants.

The linked PDF is from the lab's internal web. I will say that the initially specified solid tires didn't go over well with riders. The motorcycle style two legged kickstand was dropped as well.

That does look more industrial than I'd want. I was thinking Biomega.