Home Automation

I'm a gadget junkie like I'm sure many people here are. I'm also a huge fan of small-time home automation. I've got x10 stuff up the wazoo (well, partially up the wazoo), and integrating my Pronto made it even cooler.

I've got 4 lamps on lamp modules, as well as my outdoor lights. I have a timer that turns them all on automatically whenever I want, and I've got an IR translator for use with the Pronto.

Now a problem comes up. I have some RF devices that aren't x10, and I really want to use the Pronto to controll them. I like being able to use one remote to controll EVERYTHING. That's cool.

So does anyone know about a device that can learn RF codes? I'd think that they have to exist. Do garage doors work on RF frequency? If so, then the Home Link systems in many cars now have to learn garage door codes in order to work.

So, is there such a thing?

Really? Nobody knows of such a device?

Ask Mr. Lord if he can port Hijack over to a few other things so you can remap IR commands...lol

"RF frequency"?

Radio Frequency frequency?

I'm sure there's something out there that can do this for you. When you buy a universal remote, it has to program itself to the right RF signals for your tv, vcr, etc. And yeah, remote garage door openers use RF signals. Basically, anything that is wireless transmits via radio.

When you buy a universal remote, it has to program itself to the right RF signals for your tv, vcr, etc. (...) Basically, anything that is wireless transmits via radio.

You are incorrect. Most universal remote controls do not use radio frequencies. They use infrared, which is a completely different thing.

And yeah, remote garage door openers use RF signals.

You are correct about that, at least.

Um, not really. Most universal remotes are IR. Yeah, RF frequency was redundant

You can't just tell an IR remote to start transmitting RF codes.

Was my original question vague? Maybe I should clarify.

I have an RF device. I have an IR remote. I need something in-between to take an IR code and translate it to RF. There, that's pretty simple, isn't it? I'm having trouble finding this kind of device. I checked smarthome.com because it sounded like something they'd carry, but I couldn't find it.

Yeah, what he said

FWIW, I hunted around a bit 6-8 months ago in hopes of finding a similar solution for a friend (use an IR JP1 remote for an RF-only satellite receiver). I looked on Smarthome and Googled the various comp.home.automation and rec.sat.tv.whatever newsgroups, but didn't find anything that sounded like what I was looking for. Most of the IR-to-RF stuff is simply for IR range extension.

It's a longshot, but you might try searching the Yahoo archive of the JP1 group. Occasional wierd OT stuff flies through there.

Thanks, I'll look around and tell you if I find anything.

Do garage doors work on RF frequency? If so, then the Home Link systems in many cars now have to learn garage door codes in order to work.

Yes garage doors work on RF, but I think some of the newer ones use code hopping technologies like car alarms do.

I have an RF device. I have an IR remote. I need something in-between to take an IR code and translate it to RF.

Are you just looking for an IR repeater? Those are everywhere. The "Terk Powermid" devices (re-sold under several brands including Radio Shack and X10) work fine for me, I own two sets.

Otherwise, you're talking about two incompatible systems (RF and IR) and there's not much you can do.

Otherwise, you're talking about two incompatible systems (RF and IR) and there's not much you can do.

Though I'm a little surprised that no such translator exists in the home automation world (a box that will learn both RF codes and IR codes such that when you send the box IR code "A" it transmits RF code "B"). When I looked into it one of the issues mentioned that that sampling and regen of analog RF was harder to do. Also, if a lot of RF-controlled boxes are now coming with IR as well, then the market may be too small.

"You are incorrect. Most universal remote controls do not use radio frequencies. They use infrared, which is a completely different thing. " -tfabris

They are both electromagnetic waves and only differ in wavelength and frequency. So an infrared wave is just a really high radio wave. They only have different names for convenience of refering to different sections of the spectrum.

But the FCC probably has a certain range of radio frequencies allotted to remotes and a certain range of infrared frequencies allotted to remotes so of course they wouldn't be compatible with eachother.

"I have an RF device. I have an IR remote. I need something in-between to take an IR code and translate it to RF. "

I think what you're looking for is a modulator. I don't know of any commercial products used for this exact purpose, but that doesn't mean they're not out there.

Since you're trying to be a smart guy, I will, too. Define the functional difference between the wavelength and the frequency of electromagnetic waves.

So what you are saying is that light and RF signals are almost the same thing. Infrared is quite different because its limited to line of sight. I thought light traveled as photons. Light has a completely different set of rules and laws that apply to it. Its been 5 yrs since ive had this stuff in class though.

Sean

Well that is my understanding of it at least. Limited to line of sight? So is radio and visible light.

wfaulk, what do you mean by functional? What the terms mean?

<sigh> Since the speed of light is a constant (at least under Einsteinian physics), and since frequency is a function of only speed and wavelength (or wavelength is a function of only speed and frequency, if you prefer it that way), there is no real difference between the frequency and the wavelength of electromagnetic waves -- only the units in which they are measured.

Well I could of told you that.....

You could have, but you seemed to make a distinction between wavelength and frequency in your prior post.

I did, didn't I?

So you wanna be smart guy? What's the capital of Skatlichistan? No cheating.....

S

Though I'm a little surprised that no such translator exists in the home automation world (a box that will learn both RF codes and IR codes such that when you send the box IR code "A" it transmits RF code "B"). When I looked into it one of the issues mentioned that that sampling and regen of analog RF was harder to do. Also, if a lot of RF-controlled boxes are now coming with IR as well, then the market may be too small.

While I agree the market would probably be too small, I would think it could be done. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the x10 system runs on RF, right? Well I have an x10 device that takes IR codes from my Pronto and translates them to x10's language. Of course, this product is only out because x10 made it. I doubt any other company would see the need for a more generic device.

One would think that light is also limited to line of sight (almost by definition - I mean, I generaly use light for my sight; if some BBS members don't, then empeg has spread *really* far )

This smartassing about light, IR and RF being the same (i.e. EM radiation) is just the guy's way of saying 'oops!'. (BTW, 'Radio Frequency' - as opposed to, say, visible frequency - means exactly that - a portion of EM spectrum FCC wants to control )

I would think it could be done

Yes. One challenge though as compared to X10 is that X10, IIRC needs only to remember/product ~256 discrete codes -- maybe easier to engineer. If other vendors are using a whole bunch of non-standard, non-discrete oddball codes, seems like it could be harder to build something to reproduce them all. Just speculating!

(if this turns out to be a double post, sorry. Something evil happened on my first try)

Imagine what would happen if the FCC wanted to control the visible spectrum?

They would sell licenses for certain colors, combinations of colors, etc. :-D I wonder what Fire Engine Red would auction for?

Calvin

That makes a lot of sense. I guess that's the bottom line on this thing.

What kind of RF devices do you got?

Basically, a gas fireplace

Well naturally, you're speaking of this in the PHYSICAL realm .. but what of the psychological realm? When it comes down to it, how do you really FEEL about light anyway? Do you feel good, or warm and fuzzy when you see it? What if you don't see it, but you know it's there like IR?

I think Mr. Faulk has some issues that we need to work out in this forum before we can continue further with this IR/RF nonsense.

;-)

Greg

Basically, a gas fireplace

Hmmm. I thought all gas fireplaces were IR.

It's no fair responding to posts so old that I have to scroll back up just to remember to what it was I said that you're responding. The sad thing is that I did that and I still have no recollection.

do you want to turn on your gas fireplace with your remote? try this

http://www.rhpeterson.com/control.htm

or this

http://www.concentric.net/~rodgers1/

I think you're misunderstanding. I have a remote for my fireplace. It does indeed work on RF, because the receiver is NOT in sight.

Phillips Pronto + IR receiver/RF translator + remote gas fireplace = being able to control EVERYTHING with my Pronto. That is my ideal situation.

But I had let this go because I decided that there was no such translator (thanks to Jim Hogan). I'm content with using the original remote.