Damn and blast! Looks like a dry solder connection.

Greetings!

Well, even though I have been bringing in the player every night and every day, I started getting the imfamous "Disk not found, contact support" message. Now, I hosed my disk cable long ago (an incident involving hot glue when the folks @ empeg just started using hot glue on the drives), so I thought my cable was just on the fritz again. (I had repaired it with more hot glue.)

So, I swapped it for a spare drive cable I had for just this emergency. Nothing. Tested the jumper, single drives, different drives. Nothing. Then I moved on to the header, as the FAQ says.

I hope to get a digital photo or two of it in the morning. While I am not 100% certain it is a dry solder joint, I am about 99.44% certain that it is. The connector pins look "different" from the last time I messed with it. I will try to get a good shot so that a) I can get a consensus verdict on this before bothering Rob and b) hopefully add a good troubleshooting photo to the FAQ.

More to follow.

Unfortunately, my boxed spare is on loan to someone as a demo. And people wondered why I had a spare (or two )...

Hi Paul,
Sorry to hear about your problems. A friend’s empeg had this same problem. It’s very hard to spot, and I’m amazed that I saw the problem. I saw a small crack, and shadow on the 6 pins to the left. It’s a very easy fix, if you have the right tools. I wanted to take a picture, but I was afraid that my camera wouldn't pickup the problem!

A good troubleshooting photo for the FAQ would be highly appreciated, thanks.

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A good troubleshooting photo for the FAQ would be highly appreciated

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Paul, sorry for the problems you are having. I hope it really is just a solder joint that needs a little heat.

I repaired just such a fault not 3 weeks ago on a player that crossed our path. It really is easy to fix. I wish I had taken a photo of the before and after. Oh well.

Let me know if you need any assistance with the fix.

Stu

Greetings!

Thanks! I may take you up on that offer. If it is what I think it is, I will be in touch via email.

Meanwhile, I was able to get some good shots. Even better - since the camera had a zoom, I was able to get a very telling photo... This was taken at a slight angle to the player, zoomed as close as I could get with an external spotlight on the header.

It looks as if the header pins were sitting on top of the layer of solder. Note especially the bottom two pins. There even seems to be a shadow or void beneath the header pins where it pulled away.



It is my imagination, or does something look amiss with that solder joint??? Additional photos (Tony, if you want different ones for the FAQ) are here: header photo : closer shot straight on :
you can see the header resting on top of the solder : the above shot

Meanwhile, I am happily using my backup, so I am not in any hurry. Comments welcome.

I think the photo you put into the thread as an image file is the best photo of it, so I'll use that one. But before I do, I'd like to be sure that it's a valid photo of an actual problem. In other words, does it just appear to be unconnected, or is it really unconnected and therefore the real cause of the error message?

That photo shows exactly how the pins appeared on both of my players before I fixed them. So that photo is a perfect illustration of how I solved my "no hard disk found" messages.

Thanks, Paul and Andy. FAQ updated with the image.

Greetings!

I still have no proof that this is the root cause, but I suspect it is. I replaced the drive cable, drives and everything else in path. When I was taking the photos, I was able to feel a small gap, as if I could slide a piece of paper under the pins. I think it is pulling free.

I am not certain of the reason behind this, though. Could it have been caused by the exposure to swings in temperature? Could it have been from physical pulling when removing the cable from the header?

I am not certain of the reason behind this, though. Could it have been caused by the exposure to swings in temperature?

I doubt it. From the looks of it, swings in temperature caused the existing problem to actually induce a failure, but the problem itself (pin not bonded to the solder) was there all along. Before the swings in temperature, it was only barely touching at all, and now it's pulled completely free.

Whats the best way to fix this? (if thats not a stupid question). Is it simply a case of running a low power soldering iron over it to make the connection?

Yup.

But remember, that's a highly magnified photo of SMT components on a motherboard that is essentially irreplaceable. It's reeeeal easy to mess up. So if you're not good with that sort of thing, don't take the chance.

When one of my friends fixed this problem for another one of my friend’s empeg He said the problem was due to a shady soldering job during manufacturing. I know nothing about smt stuff, but this guy does re-work of smt boards all day long. It took about 3 seconds to fix. Note: he used a microscope when he was soldering the empeg.

That picture is exactly what my buddy’s empeg looked like. Except his were about 6 pins broken. His lesson was not to toss the empeg to his bed, letting it bounce off to the floor.

Then, another one of my friend’s empeg has 1 pin disconnected, and if you slightly push on the ide connector to the mainboard, you can hear a clicking. We still haven’t fixed it, but I pushed down on the connector and he hasn’t seen the no hard drive found error message again.

Then, on my MK1, I had a bad header that empeg fixed for me. I never opened it to look at it. But I would get a no hdd found error, or the music would stop playing when I would hit a bump in the road. Most of the time if I gently dropped it onto my lap, or gently slapped the empeg on my leg, and put it back in the cage, it would start working again.

Well, that’s my empeg header saga, its not that bad, and I’m sure it could be a lot worse.

since the camera had a zoom, I was able to get a very telling photo

No kidding! What camera was it?

Peter

Absolutely classic dry joint. The most likely reason was that the connector was slightly twisted along it's length when originally placed, and the reflow process didn't quite wet the pin properly. The end result would be that there was only a thin vertical bridge of solder connecting the relevant pins to their pads (you can see the remnants of this on the lowermost pin, the small squareish shadow on the pad), and eventually this broke due to temperature cycling/stress. The twist of the connector or strain on the cable then pulls the pins away from the pcb.

It's also likely that the amount of solder paste screened onto the pads in that area of the pcb was slightly deficient. You can see that the pins of the BTS409 power switch (the black, five pinned device right of top center) have the absolute minimum of solder on them.

Anyway, it's a simple job to resolder the pins, but the end of the connector will have to be pushed firmly down while the joints are reflowed to ensure that good contact with the pads is made. Sufficient rework flux is also vital.

pca

I'm linking this from the FAQ, thanks.

Greetings!

Cool!!! Thanks for the info and the confirmation. Since I am a rank amateur with a soldering kit, I will be having someone else do the fix. That is already being arranged.

As for the camera, I may have spoken inapproprately or used the wrong term. (I am a camera novice also.) I used a (I almost hate to admit it) Sony Mavica variation - the kind that saves the photos to floppy. Old, cheap, utterly basic, but good enough for me for quick web shots. Looking at the documentation, it was a wide angle vs. telephoto option built into the camera. Not a zoom. I don't know what the difference is, but I suspect it is probably significant.

Given that there appears to be very little solder on the power switch, is that something that may need work in the future as well? Is there anything else that can or should be done to prevent future problems?

Given that there appears to be very little solder on the power switch, is that something that may need work in the future as well?

Unlikely. Those joints look fine, and in any case it's normally either very fine pitch or stressed joints that are prone to failure. For cost reasons, the art of SMT manufacture is to get the amount of solder paste used down to absolute minimum, while still having sufficient to do the job reliably. It looks like your unit is pretty close to the limit That said, it's unlikely that there would have been a problem, unless the connector wasn't quite up to spec as well. An unfortunalte coincidence, probably. There could also have been a little contamination on the pcb before it was reflowed, and if so this would be a local problem, rather than pcb-wide.

Is there anything else that can or should be done to prevent future problems?

Not really. Occasional dry joints are a fact of life, especially with fine pitch smt equipment, and cars are a high vibration environment which exacerbate the problem. The pcb is very well fixed into the case, which is also very rigid, so board flexure is most unlikely to cause failure, but sudden shocks and major temperature cycling is never a good idea and should be avoided if possible. However, even with all this, it's much more likely that the HD or display would fail first and even that possiblilty is low.

pca

.. as long as the tip is fine enough, and that you first apply some liquid flux to the solder joint before you heat it, AND you hold down the header as you solder.

This one is a standard repair for carsupport, so I can handle it for you if needs. The standard response to the "Not Found" message is FIRST try if a new cable fixes the problem, THEN if it doesn't, it will probably need soldering. If you are suffering from this, then just mail carsupport.

That is almost exactly what the one I fixed looked like (even the same pins.) I was able to fix it with a cheap radio shack soldering iron, but I wouldn't recommend it. Just use a flat toothpick to put a little flux on the joint. Then get a little solder on the tip of your iron and quickly touch it to the joint. I'd send it back to support though if I had to do it again...don't want to ruin my empeg...

It's easy with a fine tip soldering iron. I don't know what all the fuss is about.

Stu

The fuss is that many of us simply don't have much soldering experience at all, and is largely comprised of screwing it up.

Argh... get in the car this morning... no hard disk found (side note... the no hard disk screen flashed for a millisecond and then the screen froze on the custom boot logo). Reinsert... same... repeat ad nauseum.

So i opened 'er up just now at work and it looks like my IDE board connecter has some terribly soldered joints... I'll have to post a picture tonight when i get home. Sucks!

[edit]this is with a new IDE cable, all jumpers and crimps look fine.

Looks like I've encountered this problem too. Anybody with SMT solder experience in San Diego? I'll treat you to an Arrogant Bastard or two.

Here's some pics. Tony, feel free to add them to the FAQ if you like them.



Also, it appears my hard drive cable isn't properly crimped either. Who do I contact regarding getting a new cable?

Close up.

is it me or is the whole header kind of crooked? as if someone yanked the ide cable off of it from an angle.

Totally. And the way it's leaning, you'd think the loose connection would be on the opposite side. Hmph..

So I reseated all the connectors and gave them a push to make sure they were on good. Started everything back up and it appears ok.

We'll see how long that lasts, though.

OT, what camera are you using to get such great closeups?

I suspect it's an Olympus C-5050...with either a very steady hand or a tripod. Just a guess, though!

-brendan

is it me or is the whole header kind of crooked? as if someone yanked the ide cable off of it from an angle.

Even someone yanking the IDE cable should not cause the pins to peel up as shown in that photo. If the pin header is soldered properly, the ide cable and its crimped connector should rip completely apart before you could exert enough force to do what that photo shows.

I believe someone from Cambridge said that this problem is caused by an IDE pin header that wasn't perfectly straight to begin with (or perhaps is being warped by the heat of the flow-soldering process?) combined with not enough flowed solder and heat to make the pins truly bond to the solder.

Tony, feel free to add them to the FAQ if you like them

Done. Thank you very much for the excellent photos!

I have a Canon G2 that does some great macro shots. But, I added a BW +4 macro lens. Then, for fun I added +4, +2, and +1 Hoya macro lenses. They definitely helped focus, but the G2 does a pretty good job without them.

That is a great shot!!! I like how you can actually see the texture of the chips and header around the solder point as well. Very nice!

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Looks like I've encountered this problem too. Anybody with SMT solder experience in San Diego? I'll treat you to an Arrogant Bastard or two.

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Make sure you have the soldering done before the ales and not during.

I was having some problems with Hard Disk Not Found display and upon upening up the unit found one pin with a solder problem. Fixed that one....problem occured again..opened up the unit and upon poking and prying fount that most of the pis were able to be pulled away from the motherboard.....will have to resolder all of them

seems to me that this is a 'time' problem and that many units are experienceing this at the same time and that as the unit ages the soldering just weakens.....

It is also temperature sensitive. As the weather changes, the difference in heating / cooling the player makes it more likely to fail. There was a peak of this type of failure last year around this time as well.

....well there you go then!!!!!