Fitting a fan to my Empeg

Some of you may have seen my posts about my player overheating and that I want to fit a fan to the inside. Well, I've got the fan and it sems to fit OK (now that I've rerouted the IDE cable underneath the drives). Scouring the board for a suitable source of 12v for the fan I've come across a 2 pin header marked "Fan". Goodie I thought, so I got out my multimeter and measured the voltage. Hmmm I thought 0v? that doesn't seem right. Unless this is switched on by the temp sensor when the unit gets too hot. Is this the case, or is this part of the circuit disabled? Hugo?... anyone? Any help would be greatly appreciated. TIA

If I recall correctly, both pins are 12v and the ground is the case. Didn't Hugo specifically say that in one of his replies to your other thread?

If he did I didn't see it. I'll go and have a look now. Thanks Tony .

Just had a quick look but couldn't find a reply from Hugo about this. I've just checked the voltage between the case and the pins - 12v voila!!! Thanks again Tony.

Just had a quick look but couldn't find a reply from Hugo about this.

Maybe it was another fan-related thread, then. I just remember reading it recently, that's all.

OK, fan's all connected up and the Empeg's back together. Now I'll have to see if it makes any difference to the temperature.

Quick update:
Vital signs reported 33C when I started (this may seem high to start but I had been playing with it on & off). After a few minutes it had reached 36C. An hour later and it still says 36C so it appears to have stabilised at this temp. It would usually have climbed fairly rapidly to around 47-48C. The next thing I want to do is rig up some kind of control circuit that turns the fan on & off with temperature.

Maybe there's some kind of hardware+software hack to enable Mark Lord's temp alarm to control it.

Did you get any pictures of the fan install ?

Care to offer make/model of fan and where you obtained it ?

Sorry if I have missed this information in another thread.

I got the fan from RS Components here in the UK. RS P/No. 197-4558. Cost = £22.89 (+VAT). It's made by a company called ELINA. Their P/No is HDF-4012L-12LB. Datasheet is attached. I found a company (there are others I'm sure) in the USA here. I'll post pics & other details either tomorrow or Thursday evening. I'm off to bed now. Nighty Night...zzzzz

Thanks, a little more expensive that I expected. However guess most important is how quiet it runs ? Did you mount it inside the case, just above the hard drives - clearance ok ?

You remember right, I've read that too. Somewhere...

TommyE

Here is a link to the small fan page (long page, "small" fans :) of a manufacturer/distributor in Florida:

http://www.jaro1.com/1043spec/Thermal%20Products/DC%20Fans/DC_Guide.pdf

Main site obviously: www.jaro1.com

I also found the manufacturer site for the small fans that are used in Apple's Titanium Powerbooks: www.chenghome.com.tw They seem to picture a 12v fan (cha2512) but they currently only list, and show specs for, a 5v in the 12mm size (cha2505).

The Jaro stuff is all available at 12 or 5v with multiple cfm for each size/voltage and also a selection of bearing type. I haven't done enough reading to find out where to purchase the fans retail nor to find out what the minimum order quantity from Jaro would be (anything greater than maybe 20 is really pushing it I'd think).

Bruno

OK, finally got some time this evening to take some piccies. Here's a summary of the mod details:

Fan: RS P/No. 197-4558. Cost = £22.89 (+VAT). It's made by a company called ELINA. Their P/No is HDF-4012L-12LB. There's a datasheet attached to one of my earlier posts. It is a bit expensive (RS Components are never cheap), you might be able to find a cheaper equivalent.

I mounted the fan about 7mm further back than the Empeg team originally designed, so unfortunately the fan doesn't line up properly with the stamped holes in the lid. If I'd mounted it in line with the vent holes I wouldn't have been able to get the lid on. The fan would have fouled the two electrolytic capacitors on the back of the display board. The fan is stuck on with Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue). I'll have to see how long this lasts.

I looped the Blue wire around one of the main board mounting screws (see pic) and I soldered the Red wire to one of the two pins poking vertically out of the main board marked 'Fan' (as per Tony's info).

I folded the IDE cable underneath the hard drive cradle ass'y to give more clearance in front of the fan. I didn't want to restrict airflow or risk the fan chewing up the cable.

I do find the noise from the fan somewhat intrusive here on my desk. It's better in the car of course but I can still hear it if I'm listening to music quietly (so in other words I don't hear it ). YMMV. My next step is to make up a little circuit to control the fan depending on temperature. I've just got to find the Thermistors I know I've got somewhere .

I think I've covered everything here. If anyone has any more questions feel free to ask. I'll post the pics in a moment.

Here's another pic showing the connections.

Here's one showing the IDE cable folded underneath the drive cradle ass'y.

And the final one showing the underside of the cradle.

Excellent, thanks for the pics. This is pretty much how I was thinking of fitting a fan if I needed one. Though I think I have a connector lying around that will fit onto the pins on the main board to avoid soldering.

When I finally get my speakers installed (my dash & console should be finished this weekend) I'll try some temp readings.

Bruno

In reply to:

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I do find the noise from the fan somewhat intrusive here on my desk. It's better in the car of course but I can still hear it if I'm listening to music quietly (so in other words I don't hear it ). YMMV.

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Marcus, I bet you could make the fan significantly quieter by insulating it from the metal case using some rubber washers (grommet) to absorb the vibration and keep it from transferring to the case.

If you can't do that, then use a bead of silicone adhesive instead of the super glue, as this should also isolate the fan vibration and keep it from hitting the case.

Cheers,
rjf&

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately the noise I'm getting is purely wind rush noise. There is actually zero perceptible mechanical noise from the fan itself. I might try opening out the holes and/or drilling some new ones to (a) Improve airflow & (b) Quieten it down a bit. I'll also try putting some fine Polyester gauze between the fan & the lid to see if this has any effect. Oh, and then there's the control circuit I want to build so that it only comes on when it's too hot. So many thing to do... so little time...

I'd swear I saw some fans being sold with built-in thermistors. Of course I don't have a clue how you'd configure the trigger points :)

Bruno

In reply to:

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Unfortunately the noise I'm getting is purely wind rush noise. There is actually zero perceptible mechanical noise from the fan itself.

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I am not doubting you :-) But I'd be really surprised if the direct fan contact with the can isn't at least amplifying the wind rush sound and introducing a small amount of mechanical noise.

Another idea is to reduce the speed of the fan, as it probably doesn't need to be going full bore (if I remember the specs of the fan) in order to do a decent job of cooling the unit. Plopping the appropriate resistor in there would do the trick.

Anyway, thanks for blazing the trail -- I will install a fan sometime soon and post my results.

Cheers,
rjf&

In reply to:

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...Another idea is to reduce the speed of the fan,...

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Yeah, I've thought about this too. I've even thought about building the circuit to increase the speed of the fan with temperature - shouldn't be too difficult. I'll do a bit of experimenting I think.

Thanks to the pics and info here I added a fan to my Empeg as well. Not too hard. About an hours worth of work. Really about fifteen minutes of work and 45 min of being careful.

My unit was locking up when hot. So we shall see if this solves the problem. I will post back with results later when I have a chance to test it out.

On to the details...
I used a regular Pentium style fan. I mounted it to the top with four small pieces of double sided sticky tape. I mounted it in the center of the hole. It fits perfectly. I tucked the IDE cable underneath the drive carrier as suggested. I soldered the positive wire from the fan to one of the pins on the fan header and the ground I soldered the chassis screw nearby. I took advise of the previous threads and put a 150ohm resistor inline on the positive lead. This slows the fan down(maybe 20%). I'm guessing on that. I didn't do any math on finding the right value here, so maybe someone else can give feedback. The tricky part was putting the lid back on. As you may guess the VFD board is in the way. So I unmounted the VFD board and slid the lid on. I put the VFD board back in and assembled the rest of the unit. Everything works.


Thanks to beaker and the rest for suggestions and pics.

I too have fitted a fan but I went for a 24V version that is used in one of our products here at work. I stole a "Turbo LED" lead from inside an old PC case for the fan connector, works a treat.

With regard to mounting, I mounted as empeg intended, all lined up with the predrilled holes. It is a bit tricky getting the top case back on but there is a trick:

Tilt the top cover up to 45 degrees and interlock the 2 clips at the front first (near the facia), Gently return the lid back to 0 degrees and you will just be able to get the back lugs in without putting too much pressure on the caps of the display board.

The 24V fan is almost inaudible (much less than the HDDs) and the temp stabilises at about 35 degrees.

Happy Happy joy joy.

Hmmm... I tried your trick of dismounting the display board ass'y but I couldn't get it to move forward enough to allow the lid on. Maybe I'll have to try again. I'll try the other trick of angling (no - not fishing) the like Dava suggested too because I would like it to line up properly if possible.

Oh, and thanks for the thanks.

FYI, for US readers, Sunon makes an equivalent fan, the KD1204PFB1. It's even 2mm thinner than the ELINA fan, which might help it fit better, or leave room for rubber washers for mechanical isolation. It's about $9. You can buy them online from Plycon at http://www.plycon.com/sunon40.htm

You can just whack off the RPM lead and 3-pin connector and wire it how you like.

If you're a madman about the noise, you could use a dremel or milling machine to cut the fan holes out (make one BIG hole instead of all the little ones). This would help to greatly reduce wind-turbulence related noise - air is going to get very turbulent through those sharp metal holes. Be careful, of course, but a 40mm fan probably won't take off your fingers even if you accidentally stick 'em in there.

It's way after the fact but dropping a diode in the circuit will drop the applied voltage to the fan by 0.7 volts for each one. It's an easy way to drop the voltage without worrying about resistor sizes and amperage pulls (not that a 40mm fan would really be a worry).

FYI, for US readers, Sunon makes an equivalent fan, the KD1204PFB1.

Also FYI, is the ADDA 12vdc 40x6mm fan. I ordered two from here:
http://www.mouser.com
and part # search AD0412MX-K90

Hi, I just thought I would put this in just in case no one saw it.

Hello Ben,

Thanks for your great effort in documenting your temperature controlled fan installation. It looks great. I liked your test method too!

Michael

Sorry I cant take the credit for that one. It was done by Frank Devocht and it is in the FAQ on riocar.org.

In another thread, Patrick posted this:

"The fan can be held in very easily with the same plastic rivets that were used on the power devices on the Mk1 player. These are in packs of 100, farnell number 722-4321, £2.91 per pack."

Any idea where to get these in the USA and what is the equivalent part number?

Thanks.

Digikey seems to have them. Search for Digikey part number SR-3055B-ND.

Edit: Uhhh. Except for they come by the thousand and cost $70.

Although perhaps a bit slow on this one, I thought I'd mention this for anyone considering installing a fan, like myself, who would rather not use a messy glue. The rivets mentioned from Digi-Key are made by Richco. They'll send you a free sample if you provide some basic information. This link goes directly to the free sample form. Think I'll try it myself, since I'd rather not use glue.

Hi, I just thought I would put this in just in case no one saw it.

This has been moved here.

It's also not that difficult (for those of us with drill-presses in the shop..) to countersink the mounting holes for flush-fit installation of small flat-headed bolts, nuts, and lockwashers.

Cheers

I epoxy'ed my fan to the bottom of the to cover. I had to rough up the steel first. It's been hunky-dory for several months now.