Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly?
Posted by: Phireman19
Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 02:12
I have a 2004 Honda Pilot. I had them install the Empeg, a JL 300/4 amp for my fronts and rears, and a Bazooka Tube BTA10200 which has it's own amp built in.
The guy told me when I picked it up that since the empeg didn't have 3 sets of RCA outs (meaning there isn't one for the sub) that he used the rear RCA out for the sub. So if I use the fader to the rear it is for the sub. Which is no big deal, because I never change my fader anyway.
But, it just doesn't seem right to me. I had the empeg in my BMW before with 2 JL amps and a sub box, and I know it wasn't wired that way.
How should they have done the sub out?
Thanks
Tim
Posted by: DeadFire
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 02:35
If you don't ever change the fader, then it's no big deal. However, if I were to set up a similar system (I've been far too lazy for far too long now), I might use a 2-way crossover on either the front or the rear pair of RCAs. The outputs are "high pass" for the speaker amp, and "low pass" for the sub amp.
A more likely solution, for me, would be to use a speaker amp that includes a low pass output to connect to the sub amp.
Posted by: Phireman19
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 02:40
I got to looking at the FAQ and seen the different ways to wire it.
My BMW was wired with "Y" adapters. That's why it seemed weird to me I guess.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 03:33
Quote:
I got to looking at the FAQ and seen the different ways to wire it.
Ah, good, before I had to point you there. 
It's a matter of preference. If you don't have a remote level control for that bazooka, then you can choose to either fade between your fronts and rears, or choose to fade between your speakers and your sub.
The choice is entirely up to you and you can alter that layout however you like if the amp is mounted near the sub.
Posted by: Phireman19
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 18:58
One other question. My radio stations aren't coming in clear. I checked the antenna connection, and it seemed good. There was a blue wire that's labeled "power antenna", and it wasn't wired to anything.
I don't have a power antenna, but I was thinking on some vehicles it needs to be hooked up ?!?! I took the bare end of the wire and touched it to some metal and the stations came in clearer.
So any advice on that?!
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 19:15
That's a 12v (output) wire from the empeg designed to trigger a relay - also known as "remote". Example: activating the motor for a power antenna and activating an amp's main power.
You most definitely shouldn't touch it to any bare metal on (or that's attached to) the car's chasis. That will create a short circuit (and I hope that wire is protected by a fuse). It's super-low current, so you can't really power anything directly off it.
So, if that's not hooked up, do you have another head unit triggering the JL amp and Bazooka? Or did they install some type of line-level trigger? I know the JL must be triggered by 12v connected to its remote input.
Bruno
Posted by: wfaulk
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 19:18
The empeg has separate antenna and amplifier lines, and they work independently. The antenna is only powered when in radio mode and the amp line is lit when the display is lit.
Posted by: Daria
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 19:42
Quote:
That's a 12v (output) wire from the empeg designed to trigger a relay - also known as "remote". Example's: activating the motor for a power antenna and activating an amp's main power.
Who is Example and when did he get a car?
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 20:47
Someone should tell Tom the quote feature isn't working properly. It's obviously messing up whyat peoples write.
Bruno
The edit feature, I can report, is working very well.
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 20:57
I think there's only a single remote line. At least a single BLUE remote line. I believe it's also spliced to the factory tuner connector, but at the ISO connection there's only the one pin.
The sled pin-outs in the FAQ
confirm this. Further, the ISO adapter that's used to mate to the sled's ISO connector only has a single blue remote line coming out of it as well. I know because I used all the wires, except one, during my last install a couple of weeks ago. My left-over wire was the green telephone mute. And I didn't connect any antenna wires.
Bruno
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 21:32
Quote:
I think there's only a single remote line. (...) The sled pin-outs in the FAQ confirm this.
But the sled pin-outs you linked don't include the tuner extension cable, which DOES have a separate antenna-power wire, as mentioned in this FAQ entry.
To the person having tuner reception trouble, please click here and here for tips on how to troubleshoot the empeg tuner's reception.
Posted by: Phireman19
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 22:16
Ok, I'll check those. Also, when I had the whole unit out but still wired to the car, when I moved the Empeg around, like up and down, the reception would get better and worse.
The Green phone wire is not used on mine, and the blue antenna power wire is not used, and is protected on the end.
I'll pull it all out again and check the wiring on the connectors.
Is that what you mean when you say the extension cable, the one that plugs into the tuner?
Posted by: Phireman19
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 22:19
Quote:
That's a 12v (output) wire from the empeg designed to trigger a relay - also known as "remote". Example: activating the motor for a power antenna and activating an amp's main power.
You most definitely shouldn't touch it to any bare metal on (or that's attached to) the car's chasis. That will create a short circuit (and I hope that wire is protected by a fuse). It's super-low current, so you can't really power anything directly off it.
So, if that's not hooked up, do you have another head unit triggering the JL amp and Bazooka? Or did they install some type of line-level trigger? I know the JL must be triggered by 12v connected to its remote input.
Bruno
I only have the Empeg unit installed, the JL amp is powered from the Empeg and the Bazooka tube is pre amped and powered off the Empeg as well.
Posted by: Phireman19
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 24/11/2004 23:43
I checked the extension cable, and all the wires were wired to the correct position, (1-1, 2-2, etc...)
The strongest signal I get on the meter is 3 out of the 7 bars.
How do I know if there is an antenna amplifier wire that needs to be hooked up, and what does it hook to.. the blue power antenna wire?
I will call the shop on Monday if we can't figure it out before then.
Any
Posted by: hybrid8
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 25/11/2004 02:28
The blue wire on the radio Molex Mini-Fit connector is daisy-chained off the single blue remote output of the empeg. And it doesn't hang loose. There's only a single 12v remote output from the empeg and sled and it's split onto two connnectors. Once you have the ISO adapter in place, then it will be the only place a blue wire is left loose.
When he said "isn't connected to anything" I understood that it was a dangling wire. Anyway, same same as far as the reception problem goes.
If the car has a power antenna that isn't being raised that would obviously explain some reception problems. But if the antenna isn't powered, then the blue wire isn't needed.
It's odd that someone else just posted within the past day about how their tuner module was giving them excellent (even better than expected) reception.
Bruno
Posted by: Shonky
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 25/11/2004 06:53
BTW: Guys the amp remote line is rated to 1A according to Hugo
here
Posted by: Phireman19
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 25/11/2004 12:39
Yeah, there is no power antenna on the car. I know in my BMW I had to have it hooked up even though there wasn't a power antenna, because there was an antenna ampilifier in the door pillar.
Should I be getting better reception than 3 bars? That is the best I get, most stations are 1 or 2.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 26/11/2004 06:02
Quote:
How do I know if there is an antenna amplifier wire that needs to be hooked up
You would need to search for information about your specific car from people who would know. In theory, a good car stereo installer would know the answer to this question. I have no idea if the people who installed your stereo are "good" or not. Click here for the FAQ's take on this subject.
Quote:
and what does it hook to.. the blue power antenna wire?
If needed, it would connect to either the blue power antenna wire from the tuner extension cable, or if you're not using the tuner extension cable, you could connect it to the amp remote wire.
Earlier you said that the reception changes as you move the empeg up and down. This can mean one of a few things:
- A frayed or intermittent connection on the antenna wire itself, possibly within the connection plug that connects the antenna to the tuner.
- A problem with the wires on the back of the docking sled similar to this problem.
- The need to power an antenna amplifier as discussed above.
- The need for some kind of aftermarket antenna adapter specific to your model of vehicle, such as an adapter for an antenna amplifier, or a diversity antenna adapter.
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 26/11/2004 06:12
Quote:
The blue wire on the radio Molex Mini-Fit connector is daisy-chained off the single blue remote output of the empeg.
Correct. But the antenna remote wire I'm talking about is not on that connector.
It's on a completely separate connector on the extension cable that was shipped with the retail tuner modules. It hangs loose from the tuner's end of this double-ended extension cable. It is not part of any of the wires that come with the sled. You will only see this wire if you have purchased a retail Rio tuner module. The extension cable was in a baggie that shipped with this tuner module.
Quote:
When he said "isn't connected to anything" I understood that it was a dangling wire.
It is a dangling blue wire that is connected to the end of the tuner extension cable that plugs into the tuner module itself.
If you have a PCATS tuner kit, it's a loose blue wire coming straight out of the kit.
Quote:
If the car has a power antenna that isn't being raised that would obviously explain some reception problems. But if the antenna isn't powered, then the blue wire isn't needed.
Again, keep in mind that there are two kinds of power that an antenna may need.
1. Power to raise and lower a mechanical antenna.
2. Power for an antenna signal strength amplifier.
Just because your antenna doesn't go up and down doesn't mean that the wire isn't needed.
For instance, on my 88 VW GTI, the antenna signal strength amplifier was mounted in the base of the "bee-sting" antenna, and the coax cable that ran from the antenna to the dash also had a small outrigger wire that powered the signal amplfier. If I didn't supply that wire with 12 volts, I got terrible reception.
Posted by: schofiel
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 27/11/2004 10:01
I do hope you mean driven by the empeg, not powered - the only supply line coming from the empeg is the 12V (blue) amp enable/antenna on line that signals when the unit is powered on. Draw too much power from this line, and POW - dead empeg.
I am unable to determine if you actually have a tuner module fitted - I am assuming so - where do you get the bad reception, AM or FM? Both? Just one? I am willing to bet you are getting poor FM and good AM. Which tuner module do you have (factory black box, or PCATS grey box)? If it's the PCATS, who built it for you?
I would be inclined to remove the aerial from the car completely, and clean up the signal connections, most importantly the signal earth. You also need to make sure that the aerial is earthed properly, via bare metal, to the bodywork of the car (not just sitting on top of paint). You need to protect the contact with a smear of Vaseline. If you have a multimeter, and the antenna is not an active (amplified) one, check the signal continuity between the centre signal pin on the cable and the antenna body (assuming it's metal).
Posted by: Phireman19
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 29/11/2004 18:46
I have an original tuner (black box) and I am getting bad reception on FM and NO reception on AM.
I am calling the installer right now.
Posted by: Phireman19
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 29/11/2004 19:01
The shop said the harness that plugged in from the Honda Pilot to the empeg had the power antenna wire in the harness and the tuner is powered that way.
I found this on the net, let me know if this helps. I am getting confused.
I have the blue power antenna wire from the tuner not hooked to anything, but ther tuner is working, just bad reception.
http://www.hondapilot.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5037
Posted by: tfabris
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 29/11/2004 19:04
Quote:
I have the blue power antenna wire from the tuner not hooked to anything,
More importantly, pin A1 on that connector you just linked... is THAT hooked to anything?
If not, then you know what needs to get connected to what!
Posted by: Phireman19
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 30/11/2004 00:50
I'll check that tomorrow.
Posted by: Phireman19
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 01/12/2004 00:05
Quote:
Quote:
I have the blue power antenna wire from the tuner not hooked to anything,
More importantly, pin A1 on that connector you just linked... is THAT hooked to anything?
That was it. Pin A1 had nothing connecting to it. I took the blue power antenna wire and tapped into the yellow/white wire and the reception is perfect!
Do you guys think I should try to get anything from the shop that did the install, since I had to take it out and fix it myself, since they swore it was done correctly by them. Obviously it wasn't !!
Thanks for all the help!!!!!!!!
Quote:
If not, then you know what needs to get connected to what!
Posted by: Shonky
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 01/12/2004 00:21
Quote:
Do you guys think I should try to get anything from the shop that did the install, since I had to take it out and fix it myself, since they swore it was done correctly by them. Obviously it wasn't !!
Probably not now that it's fixed. You'd just waste more of your time. If you are happy it's fixed and working then all good. If they were working from that linked diagram though they really should have wired it in the first place. They should know a lot of newer cars have external antenna amplifiers.
Quickly scanning down it appears the Crutchfield harness is missing the antenna amplifier wire though for some reason, so it would be easy to miss.
Posted by: schofiel
Re: Did the shop wire my Empeg and amp and sub correctly? - 01/12/2004 05:37
Quote:
Do you guys think I should try to get anything from the shop that did the install
Don't bother. However, do the next best thing - vote with your feet and don't go back again, ever. Also, tell your friends (and us) the place to avoid 
Quote:
since I had to take it out and fix it myself, since they swore it was done correctly by them. Obviously it wasn't !!
The best reason for wanting to learn how to do it yourself....