Can't install Emplode 1.03b

Errors trying to install Emplode 1.03b as a normal user on a W2K box with a Linux/Samba domain controller.

1 Double click the file "emplode-v1.03-beta3.exe"

2 Window "Emplode - Installshield wizard" opens.

3 Immediately after, a small dialog box (no icon) with the subject line "C:\DOCUME~1\NICK~1~HHG\LOCALS~1\Temp\pft23~tmp\pftw1.pkg" and message body "The system cannot find the path specified" appears.

4 Click OK on the above window and another small dialog box pops up subject "Error Executing the Specified Program", body "SETUP.EXE /SMS"

5 Click OK on the above window and another small dialog box pops up subject "emplode", body "Unable to execute the specified command line".

6 Setup quits and I'm back where I started.

The problem seems to be with point 3 - the full directory spec should be: "C:\Documents and Settings\nick.HHGTTG\Local Settings\Temp" and it's the "nick.hhgttg" bit which seems to be causing the confusion.

Anybody got any ideas?

I'll try logging in as local admin on the machine and see what happens then.

Nicholas.


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18GB red s/n 080000299, original pos'n 8724. Reproduction of this post is not permitted.

First, check to make sure you've got enough disk space for it to extract the package and do the install.

Also, if this is a Win2k or NT machine, check to make sure that your "nick.hhgttg" account is one of that machine's administrators.

Finally, try creating a different user with a different name that doesn't contain a period, then log in as that user.

___________
Tony Fabris

Also, try deleting everything in the 'TEMP' directory specified.

Sometimes installshield can trip up over old installations.

Paul.

Paul Haigh, Reg. 4120
(mk1) 6GB, Blue, 00254
(mk2) 12GB, Red, 00357

Blimey Tony, you're on the ball today, I've only just posted it.

OK.

1 - Plenty of disk space

2 - nick.hhgttg is not an administrator, but nowhere in the release notes for Emplode does it say that you do need to be an administrator to install it. Previous versions of Emplode have installed without Admin rights, I'm sure.
I've seen software which does need Admin rights actually give you the option of typing in a priv'd user/pass and having the install run under that. Shouldn't Emplode do this if it's required?

3 - The username is 'nick'. W2K is suffixing it with the domain name, so surely any domain logins would have the same problem? Anyway, as I will say in my next post, it installed successfully under the local admin, though I do get errors when I run it as nick.hhgttg.

Cheers,

Nicholas.


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18GB red s/n 080000299, original pos'n 8724. Reproduction of this post is not permitted.

In reply to:

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I'll try logging in as local admin on the machine and see what happens then.

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OK. It installed fine when I logged on as local admin. However...

Running it as nick.hhgttg generates an error subject "emplode", body "Failed to save comms to the registry". I got this error when I started the update routine too. Doesn't seem to be fatal - it let me do the upgrade and a sync with no problems.

Nicholas.


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18GB red s/n 080000299, original pos'n 8724. Reproduction of this post is not permitted.

In reply to:

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Also, try deleting everything in the 'TEMP' directory specified.

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Good thinking.....

OK. Done that and still have the same problem.

Now, just think, if I'd been on the Alpha Team they would have found this one ages ago. What? Me? Bitter? Nah!

Nicholas.

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18GB red s/n 080000299, original pos'n 8724. Reproduction of this post is not permitted.

OK. It installed fine when I logged on as local admin. However...

Okay, then you have to make the domain "nick" a member of the local administrator's group for that box, and all will be well.

Many people using NT/2000 don't understand this concept, but it's really the way things were meant to be run on an NT network. The idea is simple, but it takes some explaining:

- There are two different domains involved.

- First domain: The company's domain, the one that's stored on the primary domain controller. This has all the company accounts and groups such as "Administrator" who is a a member of the "Domain Administrators" group, and "Nick" who is a member of the "Domain Users" group.

- Second domain: The local security database of that particular NT/2K computer. This domain "trusts" the bigger domain, and the domain administrators are automatically a part of its local "Admins" group.

- This also means that "Nick" is automatically a part of the local "Users" group on that box. So Nick doesn't have any rights on that box.

- If you log into the box as the local box's local Adminsitrator, then you can add the "BigDomain\Nick" user to the local box's "Administrators" group. Now, when Nick logs on to the local box as "BigDomain\Nick", then he's got admin rights on the local box, but regular user rights on the big domain.

Clear as mud?

___________
Tony Fabris

Now, just think, if I'd been on the Alpha Team they would have found this one ages ago.

Actually, this is InstallShield's problem, not empeg's.

Hey, Empeg guys, Here's some InstallShield script code that checks for administrator privileges before installing:

if ( Is (USER_ADMINISTRATOR, "") = FALSE ) then

	MessageBox ( "Adminsitrator privileges required.", SEVERE );

	abort;

endif;

Don't know if that will work because the error might be happening before it reaches your script code. It might be happening in the self-extractor.

You might also have to check and see if they're installing on NT/2K first, as I don't know how that function behaves on 95/98.

___________
Tony Fabris

In reply to:

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Many people using NT/2000 don't understand this concept

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I'm not one of them!

In reply to:

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Now, when Nick logs on to the local box as "BigDomain\Nick", then he's got admin rights on the local box

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Only one small problem - I don't want admin rights on the local box.

OK. Maybe I'm carrying my professional life (VMS Systems Manager) too much into my home life, but normal, day to day, tasks should never be run with full privs. That's what the admin account is for.

Now, I'm not saying that I shouldn't have to run it as admin (either by logging off and on as admin, or by one of those dinky "run this installation as X" dialogs), but it would be nice if this requirement was in the docs and didn't result in a crash and burn error.

Nicholas.


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18GB red s/n 080000299, original pos'n 8724. Reproduction of this post is not permitted.

In reply to:

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Actually, this is InstallShield's problem, not empeg's.

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Does it matter whose problem it is? It would have been found earlier is all I was saying

Nicholas.


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18GB red s/n 080000299, original pos'n 8724. Reproduction of this post is not permitted.

but normal, day to day, tasks should never be run with full privs.

Good point.

I guess it's a difference of opinion as to what you consider a day-to-day task and what Microsoft considers a day-to-day task. To you, installing Emplode is a day-to-day task. To Microsoft, software installation is an admin task, which is why the third-party installer bombs if you're not an admin.

InstallShield should be better about failing gracefully in that instance, I agree.

___________
Tony Fabris

C:\DOCUME~1\NICK~1~HHG\

This part is really standing out to me, and I believe is the actual problem. I created a "nick.HHGTTG" in my Documents and Settings folder, went to a command prompt, and couldn't figure out how to change into it using 8.3 notation.

This is a problem with not being able to get to the file when the installer is using 8.3 style file accesses.

but normal, day to day, tasks should never be run with full privs.

Good point.

I guess it's a difference of opinion as to what you consider a day-to-day task and what Microsoft considers a day-to-day task. To you, installing Emplode is a day-to-day task. To Microsoft, software installation is an admin task, which is why the third-party installer bombs if you're not an admin.

At this point I hope the empeg guys don't remove the aspect that I can install emplode at work without admin rights. That would really majorly suck :) as I like to download mp3's here and pop em on my empeg. It really is nice when I'm able to do that.

But that's just my personal opinion

Damien Heiser

RioCar / empeg 12GB Blue Mark 2a SN: 120001043

In reply to:

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To you, installing Emplode is a day-to-day task.

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Well, no. As I've said before, I'm quite happy to log in as Administrator and install it, but:
1 - I'd have to be convinced that whatever Emplode wants to do (and essentially all it's doing is talking down a cable to a remote database) really needs privs, otherwise I'd just think it was sloppy programming.
2 - The error message I should see should be a tad more informative (understatement),
and (preferably)
3 - I should be given the option to install it as another user without having to log out, log in as the new user and then have to log out and back in as me.

Nicholas.


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18GB red s/n 080000299, original pos'n 8724. Reproduction of this post is not permitted.

In reply to:

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and couldn't figure out how to change into it using 8.3 notation.

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Indeed, although I'm guessing that there must be a way. Since W2K created this directory automatically and will do the same for any other domain users I can't control it.

Nicholas.


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18GB red s/n 080000299, original pos'n 8724. Reproduction of this post is not permitted.

There we go. Now the question is why the installer can't figure that one out...

C:\DOCUME~1>dir

Directory of C:\DOCUME~1

06/06/2001   01:38a  Nick.HHGTTG

C:\DOCUME~1>cd nick~1.hhg

C:\DOCUME~1\NICK~1.HHG>

Nah, don't get them doing that Tony. I've installed on NT without admin privs up until now, and it was good being able to do it without hassling someone to come and do the install for me. The only side effect was that it wouldn't install the USB driver (gave an error message), but what use is that to me on NT anyway!

(list 6284, Mk1 S/N 00299 4GB blue [for sale]. Mk2 S/N 080000094 6GB blue)

It's not Installshield's fault - the W2K system has it's own script-driven installer (which, co-incidentally, already existed in an under-used form on NT). You just provide the script and the files, then push the start button. Installshield these days is basically a glorified wizard and packager to allow the production of scripts and CABs.

If there's a problem with the install, then it's in the installation script itself. Up to now, I have never encountered a need for Admin privilidge in any empeg install on NT, so either something has changed in the script, or NT does not behave the same way as W2K, or there is something specific on Nick's machine.

One of the few remaining Mk1 owners... #00015

I couldn't install emplode on NT without Admin rights, either. I can run it, just not install it.

_~= Dearing =~_
"WAY too happy about having #99."