Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter - unofficial empeg BBS

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#305710 - 03/01/2008 22:31 Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Alrighty. So I'm using the Autoleads PC99-X46 Lead in my Mazda with the PC99-SON Sony adapter. Thats hooked up to my PCATS tuner and Empeg running firmware v2.0 and Hijack v479. The steering wheel on my car has buttons Up, Down, Menu, Mute, Vol+ and Vol- As standard, the buttons do absolutely nothing. I added stalk_debug=1 to my hijack config and looked for serial output while pressing buttons. BOTH Up and Down buttons give Code: Stalk: in=02 00 ff ff == no button and all the other buttons do nothing. Not ideal. So I broke out a multimeter and tried measuring the resistance on the plug of the Autoleads part when pressing buttons. I've established that all the buttons do 'work' in that they do change restistance values. Its hard to measure the Up, Down, Menu, Mute button values because I have a digital multimeter which doesn't react fast enough when you press the button. The Autoleads adapter only seems to send a pulse on those. Holding down Vol+ and Vol- works great and I can get an accurate reading on them. I end up with something like this: Up: ~12.00 (maybe?) kΩ Down: ~14.30 kΩ Menu: ~11.00 kΩ Mute: ~34.00 kΩ Vol+: 17.66 kΩ Vol-: 21.98 kΩ Okay, I'm not sure what to do now. By the looks of things, the stalk interface on the tuner should be able to look out for those values, they seem to be in range of what the Sony stalk uses (2.2-48.4kΩ), just off here and there. Anyone got any ideas? Attachments Description: Sony Stalk Schematic Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305714 - 04/01/2008 00:03 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
wfaulk wfaulk carpal tunnel Registered: 25/12/2000 Posts: 13702 Loc: Raleigh, NC US	You can use stalk_lhs and stalk_rhs to modify the values for the stalk. Does your multimeter have an option where it will hold at the minimum resistance it sees? Edited by wfaulk (04/01/2008 09:15) Edit Reason: minimum, not maximum Bitt Faulk
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#305726 - 04/01/2008 06:55 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: wfaulk]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Thanks wfaulk, I had a quick look at those options but I don't know where to start since I'm not getting any debug messages in the console from most of the buttons. My Multimeter has a 'MIN' mode that I was using which holds the minimum value it sees. I was using that, but I still think it doesn't have fast enough reactions to give a reading that I have confidence in. Every time I press the button I would see its little fast reacting LCD bar move but it would only give me a readout around one in ten presses. The Vol+ and Vol- readings are dead on though, every time they give exactly that reading (no need for the minimum function, just hold the button). Oh yeah I tried my sisters PCATS tuner (just looked for button codes on the screen, no console), but no joy with that one either. Both tuners work perfectly for Radio. Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305727 - 04/01/2008 07:02 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
Roger Roger carpal tunnel Registered: 18/01/2000 Posts: 4554 Loc: London, UK	Here's the thread where I got my steering wheel remote to work with a PCATS tuner and Hijack. I had to get Hugo to replace the resistor in the tuner to bring it into the correct range, but there might be something useful in there... European Ford Steering Wheel Remote works!!!! -- roger
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#305728 - 04/01/2008 09:39 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: Roger]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Thanks Roger, that does look handy. Now, even though my stalk (at least the Vol+ and Vol- buttons that I'm sure about) appears to be in the correct range, Vol+ is 0.86 kΩ too high and Vol- is 1.62 kΩ too low, but both SHOULD give me something on the serial console when Hijack has stalk_debug=1. The interesting thing here is that my Up and Down buttons which have AT MOST 12 kΩ give me FF on the serial console, so it does point to something being askew on the Tuner which is making it 'top out'. I am going to try bridging the 22 kΩ resistor R2 in the tuner. It sounds like the right thing to do. I'd appreciate it if anyone lets me know if they think I'm going about this the wrong way or I should try something else first - I'm really no expert on this kind of stuff. Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305730 - 04/01/2008 11:59 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Oh, I guess I can unscrew the connector on the tuner stalk plug and bridge the two contacts with some tweesers while watching the serial port. That should give me something between 00 and 07 in theory (and turn the player off). If it works I will be confused. If it gives me a serial message of around 80 then I think my resistor mod should work. Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305732 - 04/01/2008 15:06 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	Silly question, but is the stalk disabled in config.ini ?
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#305735 - 04/01/2008 16:15 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: mlord]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	I have stalk_side=rhs under the [controls] section of my config.ini - thats it, right?! I tried 'lhs' and 'none' too just for good measure while I was in the car. Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305740 - 04/01/2008 16:50 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	Originally Posted By: sein I have stalk_side=rhs under the [controls] section of my config.ini - thats it, right?! Yup, should be fine.
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#305757 - 05/01/2008 11:56 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: mlord]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Oh wait, actually its not stalk_side=rhs, its stalk_side=right. It should work though, it was set using Emplode. I've attached my config.ini anyway just in case I have anything weird going on. Will suppress_notify=1 suppress the debug messages? Is stalk_debug and trace_tuner the same wrt to the stalk debug output? Mark, is it possible to have the stalk debug output to the screen? Either on the 'view button codes' or a new 'view stalk codes' section of Hijack. Taking my laptop and dodgy USB-Serial cable over to the car is a lot of faffing around. Well, the saga continues. I was in the car late last night taking things apart (again) and found some important facts. The Up and Down arrows on the wheel gave me "Stalk: in=02 00 ff ff == no button" on the serial port and with my multimeter I found that these are actually shifted buttons (i.e. they show continuity between the middle ring (B) and the ring closest to the plug (A) as well as a resistance value between the tip (C) and A. On discovering this I got all excited and thought somewhere along the line on the Tuner side C and B have been swapped over - this would explain everything! I salvaged a 3.5mm stereo plug and lead and socket and lead from a box of stuff and set about stripping the leads back - I twisted the cables together according to my theory... and it still didn't work (no serial output). Feels like I'm getting closer to getting it working though. Going to pop over to my local friendly car stereo shop in a minute to see whether they have an RM-X2S or RM-X4S lying around that they can lend me. That should help me figure out whats going on. Attachments config.ini (69 downloads) Description: My config.ini Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305758 - 05/01/2008 12:26 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Nope, they have no Remote Commander to lend me. Going to fiddle around with this some more today hopefully, its very frustrating. I will make it work!!! Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305759 - 05/01/2008 12:34 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
Roger Roger carpal tunnel Registered: 18/01/2000 Posts: 4554 Loc: London, UK	Originally Posted By: sein Mark, is it possible to have the stalk debug output to the screen? Either on the 'view button codes' or a new 'view stalk codes' section of Hijack. "View button codes" should already show the stalk controller resistances on the screen. If it doesn't, they're probably out of range of the comparison resistor. -- roger
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#305760 - 05/01/2008 13:27 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: Roger]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Oh right... My Up and Down buttons give me that FF message on the console, but not on the 'View button codes' screen (IIRC, will double check in a minute, just going to the car). Something is not right. Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305761 - 05/01/2008 14:24 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Definitely don't get any output at all from View button codes in Hijack right now. Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305763 - 05/01/2008 15:49 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	My own config.ini file has only this for the stalk: [controls] stalk_side=right There are no trace or debug options enabled whatsoever. Attachments Description:
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#305765 - 05/01/2008 16:07 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	Originally Posted By: sein My Multimeter has a 'MIN' mode that I was using which holds the minimum value it sees. I was using that, but I still think it doesn't have fast enough reactions to give a reading that I have confidence in. Every time I press the button I would see its little fast reacting LCD bar move but it would only give me a readout around one in ten presses. Mmm.. something's wrong there. They must have a capacitor or something (internal to the stalk) that's in series with the output or something. That has to be fixed before it will work with the empeg tuner inputs. Quote: The Vol+ and Vol- readings are dead on though, every time they give exactly that reading (no need for the minimum function, just hold the button). Okay, so those two should be usable, if they're within range. My real stalk reads 23.6K and 17.5K for those two, give or take a few percent. Edited by mlord (05/01/2008 16:10)
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#305766 - 05/01/2008 16:19 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	Quote: Well, the saga continues. I was in the car late last night taking things apart (again) and found some important facts. The Up and Down arrows on the wheel gave me "Stalk: in=02 00 ff ff == no button" on the serial port and with my multimeter I found that these are actually shifted buttons (i.e. they show continuity between the middle ring (B) and the ring closest to the plug (A) as well as a resistance value between the tip (C) and A. The connector has three conductors, which I will call tip, ring, and collar, in order from the pointy end of the plug back towards the plastic housing and wire leads. The tip is for the buttons, ring is for the "shift" function, and the collar is common to all. Cheers Edited by mlord (05/01/2008 16:22)
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#305778 - 05/01/2008 20:18 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: mlord]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Thanks Mark! I'm going to take out my debug lines, give up on the laptop and rely on the Hijack display. That way I know it should work and there are less things to go wrong. In theory I should be able to do a simple test with the tuner stalk socket. If I unscrew the cover on the connector and short out the cable connection points for the collar and tip I'll see the Hijack display show the button code Stalk=0x01 and/or turn off the player... right? Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305779 - 05/01/2008 21:07 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	Originally Posted By: sein In theory I should be able to do a simple test with the tuner stalk socket. If I unscrew the cover on the connector and short out the cable connection points for the collar and tip I'll see the Hijack display show the button code Stalk=0x01 and/or turn off the player... right? Right, except the numbers will look like this instead: Attachments Description:
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#305781 - 05/01/2008 21:38 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: mlord]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	$\:\)$ Cool! I'm going to go to the car and try that now. It would be a good start to get the basics working. Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305783 - 05/01/2008 22:03 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Yeahh... that didn't work. I've taken my tuner out of the car and having a close look at it now. Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305784 - 05/01/2008 22:28 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	Originally Posted By: sein Yeahh... that didn't work. I've taken my tuner out of the car and having a close look at it now. Perhaps you've simply been trying with the microphone input, rather than the stalk input? The connectors appear rather similar. EDIT: I just now hunted down the dock here with a PCATS tuner inside, and tried the same tip-to-collar test there. FAILED. Then I tried what I thought was the MIC input, and.. behold.. it lives! That thin grey coax of the stalk input really suggests a MIC input to me! Cheers Edited by mlord (05/01/2008 22:35)
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#305786 - 05/01/2008 22:45 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: mlord]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Yes, the thin grey coax cable from the tuner... thats not the stalk input? But but, I thought the Mic input was on the sled? Surely the stalk input is on the tuner... Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305787 - 05/01/2008 22:49 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Mark, the connector that works for you, can you please trace the cables and see where its connected up - does it go to the sled? This is weird! So far I've only been interested in the thin grey cable from the tuner. Mark, I'd really appreciate it if you could please double check whats happening with your PCATS tuner and whats connected where. I'm going to bed now, thanks for all you help so far, back in a few hours! Edited by sein (05/01/2008 23:15) Edit Reason: Bedtime Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305788 - 05/01/2008 23:21 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	Originally Posted By: sein Yes, the thin grey coax cable from the tuner... thats not the stalk input? But but, I thought the Mic input was on the sled? Surely the stalk input is on the tuner... No no.. don't let me confuse you. The thin grey thing from the PCATS tuner is the stalk wire. The sled harness connector is indeed the MIC. Cheers
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#305796 - 06/01/2008 13:10 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: mlord]
sein sein old hand Registered: 07/01/2005 Posts: 707 Loc: Sector ZZ9pZa	Okay, I'm not going crazy $\:\)$ Right, well I've been out in the car again just to try that test once more to be sure. Shorting out the collar and tip of the stalk remote connector does not give me any output at all on the Button Codes Display or serial console with the debug options enabled. I've checked the wiring of the stalk remote line, and its okay. The cable is not broken either, all the traces are fine and its all connected the right way with no crossed wires as per the tuner assembly guide PDF. With trace_tuner and stalk_debug both enabled on my player, shorting the cables for the ring and the collar (Shift) gives me the following on the console: Code: tuner: in=02 tuner: in=01 tuner: in=ff tuner: in=00 stalk: in=0201ff00 tuner: in=02 tuner: in=00 tuner: in=ff tuner: in=ff stalk: in=0200ffff Stalk: in=02 00 ff ff == no button It gives me nothing on the Hijack Button Codes display. I've attached the dmesg output from my Empeg in the car, but don't see anything broken in there really. Whats my next step? If I can't get this basic test working, is there definitely something up with my Tuner? Could I send it over to someone to have a look at? Patrick? Attachments dmesg.txt (66 downloads) Description: Hussein [ Mk2a 40Gb :: PCATS Tuner :: Greenlights Buttons :: MLord Dock :: Nokia CK-7W :: Mazda 3 ]
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#305797 - 06/01/2008 14:03 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
pca pca old hand Registered: 20/07/1999 Posts: 874 Loc: UK	Hi. With reference to the attached schematic, I would proceed by first connecting the stalk and measuring the voltage at pin 2 of the PIC, IC4, as the controls were manipulated. If you don't get any voltage there, or it doesn't change, check the output of IC3 pin 1, the LM258. Also check it actually IS a 258 $\:\)$ If there still isn't anything, check the input on pin 3 of IC3. If there's STILL nothing, your stalk or wiring is bad. If you get a voltage at IC4 pin 2 that looks reasonable, it's possible that the PIC is faulty or damaged. D2 should protect the input from spikes, but it's not infallible. If this turns out to be the case let me know and I can swap it for another one. Pca Attachments Tuner1A.pdf (70 downloads) Description: PCATS tuner V1.0A schematic Experience is what you get just after it would have helped...
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#305802 - 06/01/2008 16:14 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: sein]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	Originally Posted By: sein stalk: in=0201ff00 That one has a "bad checksum", so Hijack ignored it. Quote: Stalk: in=02 00 ff ff == no button It gives me nothing on the Hijack Button Codes display. Yeah, 0xff is the only stalk report that Hijack does NOT show on the front panel, because it means "button released" So what you got was a 0x00 "button pressed (but bad checksum)", followed by a "button released". Mmmm.. I wonder if it's just the checksumming logic that's busted on that tuner? Here's a copy of Hijack that disregards the checksums: http://rtr.ca/hj479+no_csum.zImage Try it and report back. Edited by mlord (06/01/2008 16:23)
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#305803 - 06/01/2008 16:25 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: mlord]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	Originally Posted By: mlord Mmmm.. I wonder if it's just the checksumming logic that's busted on that tuner? Here's a copy of Hijack that disregards the checksums: http://rtr.ca/hj479+no_csum.zImage Try it and report back. It could be quite informative to see a full serial port trace (with the stalk/tuner debug/trace options you were using above) showing what happens with the stalk connected, and the vol up/down buttons being used. Cheers
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#305804 - 06/01/2008 16:43 Re: Troubleshooting Autoleads Stalk Adapter [Re: mlord]
mlord mlord carpal tunnel Registered: 29/08/2000 Posts: 9841 Loc: Canada	Originally Posted By: mlord Originally Posted By: sein stalk: in=0201ff00 That one has a "bad checksum", so Hijack ignored it. Quote: Stalk: in=02 00 ff ff == no button It gives me nothing on the Hijack Button Codes display. Yeah, 0xff is the only stalk report that Hijack does NOT show on the front panel, because it means "button released" So what you got was a 0x00 "button pressed (but bad checksum)", followed by a "button released". Mmm.. a correction on that. I misread the packets. The checksum is likely passing just fine after all. The button value isn't 0x00, but rather 0xff on both packets. So it really is invalid, and quite likely a circuit issue in the tuner. I wonder if the in-car stalk somehow damaged the tuner's stalk input? We already know there's more in there than just a resistor array (because most buttons generate a pulse, rather than just a continuous level). ??
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