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#126066 - 14/11/2002 12:00 Barbecue
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
I just went out for lunch and got me a big-ole helping of barbecue, and it got me to thinking

Here in central North Carolina, barbecue is shredded pork in a spicy vinegar sauce.

How about where you are? Obviously, this is idle curiosity and I half expect it to fall in the never-replied-to bin, but there's been more than enough talk about food on here already, so....
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#126067 - 14/11/2002 12:06 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
Here in southern New York, barbecue is commonly confused with grilling. Also, the nearest barbecue place I can think of (that serves pulled pork like I think you're referring to) is in a New Jersey Turnpike rest stop. I think it's the Vince Lombardi and I think the place is called Dickey's.

Up in the Albany area of the state, they seem to know what barbecue is (my definition is probably the same as yours).
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#126068 - 14/11/2002 12:08 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
lastdan
enthusiast

Registered: 31/05/2002
Posts: 352
Loc: santa cruz,ca
barbecue ? A barbecue is a grill, does not refer to any one meat. around here (santa cruz,CA), anyway.
if it did refer to one meat, I fear it would be tofu.

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#126069 - 14/11/2002 12:12 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
revlmwest
addict

Registered: 05/06/2002
Posts: 497
Loc: Hartsville, South Carolina for...
There are several kinds I've tasted and others I've just heard of... In Texas, barbecue is mainly beef and tomato based, with sweet or hot varieties. Vinegar based pork seems to reign here in the South. I've heard of mustard based barbecue but I've never tasted it. Some people talk about molasses based barbecue but the stuff I've seen is usually Tomato based with molasses in it. I also found this link to be humorous....
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#126070 - 14/11/2002 12:17 Re: Barbecue [Re: robricc]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Is it this Dickey's? If so, I don't think it's the same a NC BBQ. They probably have a heavy molasses sauce, and the pulled pork is bigger pieces than the shredded pork I'm referring to is. NC BBQ sauce isn't even really a sauce. You couldn't, for example, lick the sauce off or anything. It's like it's infused in the pork, not that it's cooked with it, but it's so thin that there's no way to separate it, and it's fairly colorless, so you can't even see it, except for the flakes of pepper.

What I was interested in is what you think of when someone says ``Hey! Want to get some barbecue for lunch?''
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#126071 - 14/11/2002 12:21 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
Yeah, that's the place. I ate there a couple times. It was pretty good.

If someone said "let's get barbecue for lunch," I would think of pulled pork with molases-based sauce.... but not globs of it.
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#126072 - 14/11/2002 12:28 Re: Barbecue [Re: robricc]
lastdan
enthusiast

Registered: 31/05/2002
Posts: 352
Loc: santa cruz,ca
``Hey! Want to get some barbecue for lunch?''
this could mean chicken or ribs (beef or pork).
it's just not a (food) noun around here.

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#126073 - 14/11/2002 12:42 Re: Barbecue [Re: lastdan]
ashmoore
addict

Registered: 24/08/1999
Posts: 564
Loc: TX
in England, it usually means grilling. As for a restaurant that actually specializes in it, that would be unheard of and downright un-english!

I think that most of the southern US has the barbecue thang cornered. Certainly aorund here in Austin there are more 'cue joints than you can shake a smoky stick at.
Of course they all claim to be the "best in the world", but that is uaully a pretty small world view!
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#126074 - 14/11/2002 13:13 Re: Barbecue [Re: ashmoore]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2082
Loc: New Orleans, LA
Down here in the south, it means shredded or sliced pork or beef with a molasses mased BBQ sauce. Usually sever on a bun or texas toast. Things cooked on a grill are grilled, unless it's grilled with BBQ sauce, in which case it's barbecued. Some people around here like their BBQ pork on a bun with cole slaw on top of the pork, in the sandwich, with a pickle on TOP of the bun. I'll never figure that one out. Gross.

And a serious question, should buffalo wings be breaded? or not. I prefer not. Just wondering what the're like in buffalo.

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#126075 - 14/11/2002 13:20 Re: Barbecue [Re: lectric]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
You're going to have to be more specific about ``the south''. Don't assume that it's that way everywhere, because I never see tomato- or molasses-based barbecue sauces in NC.
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#126076 - 14/11/2002 13:27 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2082
Loc: New Orleans, LA
OK, I'm talking Deep South, as in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi. Most Alabamians would not consider the Carolina's to be in the "South" even though they happened to be on that side diring the civil war.

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#126077 - 14/11/2002 13:41 Re: Barbecue [Re: lectric]
robricc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4909
Loc: Orange County, NY USA
And a serious question, should buffalo wings be breaded?

NO!
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#126078 - 14/11/2002 13:45 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12052
Loc: Sterling, VA
Well I think people tend to think of "barbecue" as about what you're thinking, but I the people I know nearly always think of "a barbecue" as an event that must involve a grill, but can include a wide variety of meats and styles of cooking.

In the DC area (and spreading), a BBQ place called Red Hot & Blue is the place BBQ. They're mainly focused on the pork side of things, but have ribs and burgers. They also offer 4 sauces on the table, one of which is a vinegar sauce that I've been told it pretty good. Down here where there are very few decent restaurants, that place is my favorite by far.
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#126079 - 14/11/2002 14:06 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
davec
old hand

Registered: 18/08/2000
Posts: 992
Loc: Georgetown, TX USA
Mmmmm barbecue.... *drool* For a few years I was heavily into Q, on mail lists with other fat bastards talkin' Q, gettin' together and eatin' Q and driving as far as Mississippi to meet up and have a Qfest a few times. And I spent a week driving all over NC trying the "definitive Q joints." Man you guys got the good ones. In Texas Cattle is King but I looooooooove pulled pork. Lexington BBQ in Lexington, NC is my favorite out your way. "Pulled pork sammich with a dallop of slaw and a side of hushpuppies please!"

For Texas, Cooper's in Llano is NUMERO UNO! But I love making my own pulled pork, ribs turkey, etc, etc... He's Morty the Smoker stuffed full of a carnivore's delight...



Yeah yeah it's propane powered with a place for wood chunks for smoke. (Down in the lower left is the propnae jet and frying pan with wood chunks.) It's called the Lazy-Q made by Big Jim Whitten for me. Hey when in Hank Hill's country one must use "propane and propane accessories" whenever practical. Pulled pork on the pit for 12 hours is no problem...

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#126080 - 14/11/2002 14:09 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
Micman2b
addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 441
Loc: Central, NC, USA
Wfaulk, Which barbecue restautant did you guys go to?

There is a place in Mebane, NC called A&M off of US-70 that is awesome.. Kind of a mix of Eastern NC and Western NC, also known as Lexington style.

Eastern is vinegar based and Lexington style is tomato based.

Man, I am going to have to get some good grub this eve..
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#126081 - 14/11/2002 14:17 Re: Barbecue [Re: lastdan]
matthew_k
pooh-bah

Registered: 12/02/2002
Posts: 2296
Loc: Berkeley, California
In reply to:

around here (santa cruz,CA), anyway. if it did refer to one meat, I fear it would be tofu.




You need to head south a few miles and go the "Central Texas Barbecue" in Castroville. It's long since sold out from when it was a rea holel-in-the-wall-with-a-pit-out-back, but curly (as he's known in my family) is still there slicing up meat.

"Barbecue" as a food around here means beef cooked on an open flame. Chicken is the seccondary barbecue meat, though pork ribs are very common. As a verb, it means to cook anything on an open flame.

Matthew

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#126082 - 14/11/2002 14:19 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4148
Loc: Cambridge, England
Here in central North Carolina, barbecue is shredded pork in a spicy vinegar sauce. How about where you are?

Here in eastern North Atlantic, a barbecue is an outdoor cooking device which cooks items on a wire rack by indirect (radiant) heat[1]. It's also the name of the popular summertime social activity where everyone goes round to someone's garden and cooks food on such a device. It's not the name of a foodstuff and it's rarely done commercially (except for Mongolian Barbecue and the like, which is a bit different).

Barbecue sauce is a well-known product, but I for one always assumed that it was called that because it tastes good on barbecued meat.

I also assumed that it was originally a US term, derived from "Bar-B-Q" as a cattle brand, but OED says it's derived from a Guianan Indian word that originally meant any raised wooden platform, whether for sleeping on or for lighting a fire underneath to cook. (It defines the verb "to barbecue" as "to roast or broil[2] an animal whole, e.g. to split a hog to the backbone, fill the belly with wine and stuffing, and cook it on a huge gridiron, basting with wine" which is considerably more ambitious than most of what's done under the name of barbecuing where I come from.)

Peter

[1] I hestitate to use the word "grill", because in England that refers to the part of an indoor cooking device (gas or electric) which cooks by radiant heat -- I think these are called "broilers" in the US. "Grilled" meat is prepared in a "grill", not a barbecue.

[2] To repeat, no-one in England actually calls this "broiling".

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#126083 - 14/11/2002 14:19 Re: Barbecue [Re: Micman2b]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
You mean today? I went to the Barbecue Lodge in Raleigh, mostly because it's the closest. It's not the best (a little too vinegary), but anywhere that serves hushpuppies is okay by me. And I got an assload of it. I can't imagine what wuold have happened if I hadn't ordered the small plate.

Here in Raleigh, most everything is vinegar based, but we're right on the edge of Down East cookin'. I've eaten the tomato/vinegar stuff, and it's pretty good, too. Never been to A&M, though. Mebane (meh-behn or mee-bayne?) is a little far off the beaten path for me.
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#126084 - 14/11/2002 14:29 Re: Barbecue [Re: peter]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4148
Loc: Cambridge, England
no-one in England actually calls this "broiling".

Although it's just occurred to me that they must have done as little as 140 years ago: "'Brillig'", says Carroll, "derived from the verb to broil, the time of broiling dinner, i.e. the late afternoon". (The Annotated Alice, p191)

OED lists it as still current, but cannot dig up a 20th-century usage from this side of the Atlantic.

Peter

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#126085 - 14/11/2002 14:37 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5320
Loc: Cambridge UK
The first time I visited the US - Orlando as it happens - I was invited to a BBQ at the house of our client. After a couple of games of croquet I started to wonder when the host was actually going to get his BBQ out and light it. When we were all getting hungry he declared "Right, time to eat!" and jumped in his station wagon.

Ten minutes later he returned with the "pit BBQ to go" :-)

I must admit it was very good, but there's something about burning your own food on your own BBQ that can't be substituted with takeout. Burning sausages on a BBQ is the #1 summer masculine activity in the UK. I believe the situation is similar in Australia, except they use whole cows.

Rob

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#126086 - 14/11/2002 14:38 Re: Barbecue [Re: robricc]
lectric
pooh-bah

Registered: 20/01/2002
Posts: 2082
Loc: New Orleans, LA
That's EXACTLY what I thought, but everywhere here I've ordered them breads them. Blech. In college (Auburn), there was this place called Ryans that served all-you-can-eat buffalo wings for $8.95. They were not breaded, had the best sauce I've tasted, and best of all, they'd just keep on bringing them until you said "stop". Unfortunately, since it was only one night a week, there was a 2-3 hour wait for a table most times. God those were good. Grrr, now I want some. And I miss college.

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#126087 - 14/11/2002 14:40 Re: Barbecue [Re: davec]
JBjorgen
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/01/2002
Posts: 3501
Loc: Guadalajara, MX
Davec:

Did you make it over to Bob Melton's barbecue in Rocky Mount? The folks local to there seem to think it's the best around.
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#126088 - 14/11/2002 15:04 Re: Barbecue [Re: JBjorgen]
davec
old hand

Registered: 18/08/2000
Posts: 992
Loc: Georgetown, TX USA
Did you make it over to Bob Melton's barbecue in Rocky Mount? The folks local to there seem to think it's the best around

Doesn't sound familiar. It was in '97 when I did that trip while in RTP for training. I hit many places around Raleigh, a place called Short Sugar's, out towards Mt Airy, (Mayberry!), Wilber's in Goldsboro, Allen and Sons I think in Durham, and several others on the highways and byways of NC.

I even got me a "Snappy Lunch Home of the Pork Chop Sandwich" in Mt Airy. I am an Andy Griffith nut, my cell phone rings _Fishin' Hole_ the AG Show theme song... And on the way to the lake, guess what's playing on the empeg? Yep _Fishin' Hole_ with the words and all!

"Well, now, take down your fishin' pole and meet me at The Fishin' Hole..."
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#126089 - 14/11/2002 15:12 Re: Barbecue [Re: davec]
blitz
addict

Registered: 20/11/2001
Posts: 455
Loc: Texas
Dave

Ever tried the City Market in Luling? Worth the trip. Lunch only. 20 miles away from you.

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#126090 - 14/11/2002 15:29 Re: Barbecue [Re: blitz]
davec
old hand

Registered: 18/08/2000
Posts: 992
Loc: Georgetown, TX USA
Ever tried the City Market in Luling?

Not yet, it's about 60 miles from me, Austin/Cedar Park area. I was passing thru Luling a couple years ago, but I think I recall that they had a fire and were closed for a bit. I've heard it's right up there with the Big 3 according to Texas Monthly. (I was going to link it, but now they require registration, damn these sites! kvue.com and now texasmonthly.com!) If you want to check out the article, it rates many places all over Texas, search for BBQ at texasmonthly.com

Anyways the Big 3 according to Texas Monthly are Cooper's in Llano, Louie Mueller's in Taylor and in what's that place in Lockhart where the sister told the brother to get out of the building they were in for decades? Basically they're all excellent Q... Each has their specialty IMO, Mueller's is the jalapeno sausage, that Lockhart place (Damn what's the name!!!?) has good brisket, Cooper's the huge pork chops, smoked sirloin and pork ribs are OUTSTANDING! best part about Cooper's is the ride down to Luchenbach on the way back to Austin... Gawd I love bbq!
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Dave Clark Georgetown, Texas MK2A 42Gb - AnoFace - Smoke Lens - Dead Tuner - Sirius Radio on AUX

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#126091 - 14/11/2002 15:47 Re: Barbecue [Re: peter]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31179
Loc: Seattle, WA
"'Brillig'", says Carroll, "derived from the verb to broil, the time of broiling dinner, i.e. the late afternoon". (The Annotated Alice, p191)

Aw, shit. And here I was, thinking that poem was a string of brilliantly nonsencical made-up words.
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#126092 - 14/11/2002 16:10 Re: Barbecue [Re: tfabris]
rjlov
member

Registered: 16/12/1999
Posts: 188
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Aw, [censored]. And here I was, thinking that poem was a string of brilliantly nonsencical made-up words.

It is, but he also made up definitions for many (all?) of them as well.

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#126093 - 14/11/2002 18:38 Re: Barbecue [Re: wfaulk]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5383
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
...and I half expect it to fall in the never-replied-to bin...

What -- you expect a discussion about food to garner no replies on this bbs? Where have you been for the last year or two?

tanstaafl.
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#126094 - 14/11/2002 18:56 Re: Barbecue [Re: tfabris]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5383
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
And here I was, thinking that poem was a string of brilliantly nonsencical made-up words.

No, no Grasshopper.

Jabberwocky is probably the world's premiere example of the use of portmanteau words. A brief Google search brought up this explanation that is much more succinct than any I could write myself:

"This term for blend word comes from portmanteau, a leather travelling case that opens into two hinged compartments (from the French for carry cloak), by way of Humpty Dumpty in Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking-Glass: "You see it's like a portmanteau -- there are two meanings packed up into one word."

"Although most modern blends are simply the first part of one word plus the last part of another (e.g., "brunch" = breakfast+lunch; "smog" = smoke+fog; "Chunnel" = Channel+tunnel), Carroll himself formed his portmanteau words in a more subtle manner: "slithy" = lithe+slimy; "mimsy = miserable+flimsy; "frumious" = fuming+furious. Carroll's coinages "chortle" (which is now in most dictionaries) and "galumph" (which is in the OED) are generally understood as chuckle+snort and gallop+triumph respectively, although Carroll himself never explained them."

Please -- do not underestimate the erstwhile Mr. Dodgson.

tanstaafl.
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#126095 - 14/11/2002 21:15 Re: Barbecue [Re: tanstaafl.]
Dignan
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/03/2000
Posts: 12052
Loc: Sterling, VA
I know it's sad, but every time you say "Carrol", I can't help but think "Carol" and how scary she was in the movie


ps- what does that "outgrabe" part mean?


Edited by DiGNAN17 (14/11/2002 21:16)
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