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#14517 - 30/08/2000 02:09 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: Roger]
altman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 19/05/1999
Posts: 3452
Loc: Palo Alto, CA
Stop calling me "someone". ;)

Hugo



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#14518 - 30/08/2000 06:01 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: altman]
trevorp
member

Registered: 08/06/2000
Posts: 144
Loc: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Heh.

Actually, someone else mentioned that they feel for the battery cover... Was that you Tony?

I feel that a much more obvious feature is the hole in the front of the remote where the ir comes out. I generally try to tell by the battery cover, as it's more natural, but if I can't tell, then I feel for the ir hole.

-Trevor

-----
Mk 2, Green 12GB 080000349
_________________________
-Trevor

-----
Mk 2, Green 12GB, Tuner, 2.0b11, 080000349

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#14519 - 30/08/2000 08:32 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: trevorp]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31179
Loc: Seattle, WA
Actually, someone else mentioned that they feel for the battery cover... Was that you Tony?

I believe I mentioned that you could feel for the battery cover if you thought about it. I don't always do that.

I feel that a much more obvious feature is the hole in the front of the remote where the ir comes out.

I try to avoid doing that so I don't get fingerprints or other crud on the IR transmitter.

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#14520 - 30/08/2000 08:59 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: tfabris]
trevorp
member

Registered: 08/06/2000
Posts: 144
Loc: Ft Lauderdale, FL
I try to avoid doing that so I don't get fingerprints or other crud on the IR transmitter.

True. But since I give myself maybe 6 months before I lose my remote control, it's not as much of an issue for me.

I have a history of losing small but important things...

-Trevor

-----
Mk 2, Green 12GB 080000349
_________________________
-Trevor

-----
Mk 2, Green 12GB, Tuner, 2.0b11, 080000349

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#14521 - 30/08/2000 09:36 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: altman]
Fogduck
member

Registered: 06/06/2000
Posts: 199
Loc: BC
It would be empeg-unique?

Nooooo!

Actually, I was appreciating the generic and ubiquitous nature of the particular model of remote you chose. If something happens to it (stuff happens in cars) -- any idiot stereo shop will probably have one of these for cheap.

I don't know how much time you've spent on designing a unique remote, but could you PLEASE reconsider, and just cook up your own overlay over this cheaply/easily-replaced model?

I can't imagine how much more improvement in interface/ergonomics would be achieved with a unique remote: I mean, other than the labels on the Kenwood, its not deficient in any way.

Sure the existing remote looks kludgey, but with its own overlay -- woo!

In the event of loss or damage, I'd rather just have to order a little plastic overlay from empeg and stick it on a garden-variety Kenwood remote.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
MK2 #141, green, 12GB
_________________________
- - - MK2 #141 12GB Queue #5723 (SOLD) MK2a 30GB + grn + tuner + blk empeg case

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#14522 - 30/08/2000 09:40 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: tfabris]
Fogduck
member

Registered: 06/06/2000
Posts: 199
Loc: BC
so I don't get fingerprints or other crud on the IR transmitter

Just how dirty do your hands get in the car, anyway? I might be concerned if, say, you were man-handling a jelly donut and then groping for the remote, but it would take a LOT of fingerprints to diminish the signal noticeably.

I seem to be able to occlude the remote in various interesting ways and the empeg still manages to see it.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
MK2 #141, green, 12GB
_________________________
- - - MK2 #141 12GB Queue #5723 (SOLD) MK2a 30GB + grn + tuner + blk empeg case

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#14523 - 30/08/2000 09:49 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: gb14772]
Fogduck
member

Registered: 06/06/2000
Posts: 199
Loc: BC
http://www.pronto.philips.com/
Pronto is fully programmable through a PC


Hmm...thats starting to look a lot like my Visor running OmniRemote -- a fully programmable, customizable, learning IR utility for any IR-enabled Palm device.

Draw your own buttons and labels for the interface, then put it in learn mode and away you go.

No beanie or PC (that is, after you've loaded the software intially) required.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
MK2 #141, green, 12GB
_________________________
- - - MK2 #141 12GB Queue #5723 (SOLD) MK2a 30GB + grn + tuner + blk empeg case

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#14524 - 30/08/2000 09:56 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: altman]
Fogduck
member

Registered: 06/06/2000
Posts: 199
Loc: BC
Actually, as long as you are keeping the empeg backwards-compatible with the Kenwood remote (read this later in the thread, sorry), I don't need to worry as much.

However, to take it one step further, how about giving the empeg the ability to learn to respond to a different remote?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --
MK2 #141, green, 12GB
_________________________
- - - MK2 #141 12GB Queue #5723 (SOLD) MK2a 30GB + grn + tuner + blk empeg case

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#14525 - 30/08/2000 09:59 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: Fogduck]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31179
Loc: Seattle, WA
Actually, I was appreciating the generic and ubiquitous nature of the particular model of remote you chose. If something happens to it (stuff happens in cars) -- any idiot stereo shop will probably have one of these for cheap.

Relax, my dyslexic friend. The old Kenwood remote still works just fine and it can still be purchased as a replacement. Just because Empeg is building their own custom remote doesn't mean that the Kenwood unit will become obsolete any time soon. The Empeg will support both sets of remote codes.

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#14526 - 30/08/2000 11:23 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: Fogduck]
alear
enthusiast

Registered: 05/07/2000
Posts: 301
Loc: Montana, USA, Bozeman
starting to look a lot like my Visor running OmniRemote

I thought about buying a palm IIIe for this exact reason. Beats the price of a pronto and has all the other palm advantages. The pronto may have other features the palm cannot provide but everything I need is there. I also happened to find the cracked omniRemote software on the internet. Though its not an expensive piece of software anyway.

Alex Lear
_________________________
Alex Lear

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#14527 - 30/08/2000 18:16 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: alear]
scoco
member

Registered: 10/06/1999
Posts: 109
Loc: St. Louis, MO
The palm makes for a really crappy remote. The IR doesn't have the power. It works with some of my equipment pretty good, but other stuff (Mainly my dishplayer) it doesn't handle at all. If you don't want a pronto, get a Sony AV2100 or something similar, not a PDA. There are some people that make an atachment for the palm with a new IR transmitter with more power that will make it function better as a remote, and that would probably help, but out of the box, it sucks.


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#14528 - 30/08/2000 18:30 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: Fogduck]
bootsy
enthusiast

Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
Pronto is fully programmable through a PC

Oooh... That reminds me. I need to make an Empeg specific page for my Pronto!

And for the record, I've been told that the IR on the Palm is fairly weak compared to the Pronto. A lot of people with both have said they got the Pronto because the signal from the Palm wouldn't reliably cross their living room.

_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."

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#14529 - 31/08/2000 12:55 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: bootsy]
eternalsun
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
It's true. The pilot IR is weak as hell. I have to walk right up to something to get the damn thing to register -- but as for use in an enclosed vehicle, that'll certainly be within distance, unless you're driving a limo and sitting in the back with the pilot :-)

Calvin


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#14530 - 31/08/2000 22:25 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: eternalsun]
drakino
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
Loc: Seattle, WA
The makers of OmniRemote sell an IR addon for the Palm that clips on to the serial port, and gives average remote ranges. Their program supports flipping the display if necessary since the serial is on the bottom of the unit.

_________________________
Tom

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#14531 - 01/09/2000 10:13 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: drakino]
eternalsun
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/1999
Posts: 1721
Loc: San Jose, CA
Very kludgie, and very awkward. In any case, people should not be using remotes like this in a car because there is 1) no tactile feedback and 2) no way for you to identify buttons by feel. It would become necessary to look away from the road in order to operate the remote. So in addition to kludgie and awkward, it is dangerous. That goes for the pronto as well. The Omniremote software, if you ever used it, consists of buttons less than a centimeter in size, some closer to a few millimeters. I'd like to see somebody operate that remote blind in on the freeway without killing themselves ;).

Calvin


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#14532 - 24/09/2000 21:26 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: altman]
borislav
addict

Registered: 30/04/2000
Posts: 420
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Yes, we're working on the custom remote; we should have some samples by the end of the month (we will post pictures :) ) but I'm not sure what the actual production lead time will be.

Please post pictures

Borislav


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#14533 - 25/09/2000 05:08 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: borislav]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5320
Loc: Cambridge UK
They got it wrong - although we supplied a PDF they still managed to introduce typos and font errors. We're awaiting replacements.

Rob



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#14534 - 25/09/2000 05:10 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: rob]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

Is that PDF file available for viewing anywhere?

Paul G.
Q# 15189
Status: Invited / Ordered - 24 Sept 2000 (36GB Green)
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#14535 - 25/09/2000 05:39 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: rob]
peter
carpal tunnel

Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4148
Loc: Cambridge, England
we are arranging the layout so that the 1 and 4 keys don't do anything in normal playback mode - so if you hold it the wrong way round and try to change volume, nothing annoying will happen (apart from the lack of volume changing!).

Due to severe demand for buttons, we might have to consider changing it so that buttons 1 and 4 don't do anything annoying, rather than their not doing anything at all...

Peter



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#14536 - 25/09/2000 11:07 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: peter]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31179
Loc: Seattle, WA
Due to severe demand for buttons, we might have to consider changing it so that buttons 1 and 4 don't do anything annoying, rather than their not doing anything at all...

Fine with me, good compromise. What did you guys eventually decide on the tactile assymetry thing?

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#14537 - 25/09/2000 11:29 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: tfabris]
tonyc
carpal tunnel

Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Yeah that's key. Even just a little dimple on one side that you could search for in the dark. Right now it's trial and error.


-Tony
MkII 080000554
_________________________
- Tony C
my empeg stuff

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#14538 - 25/09/2000 12:08 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: tonyc]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31179
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yeah that's key. Even just a little dimple on one side that you could search for in the dark. Right now it's trial and error.

Well, as I understand it, they won't be able to modify the shape of the remote's casing no matter what. And it's been argued that you can feel for the IR window or the battery hatch if you want. This is a good argument.

My opinion is that if there's going to be tactile asymmetry, it needs to be on the buttons themselves since that's the ergonomically correct way to do it. The best suggestion I heard was to have a "nipple" on the Enter button (what would correspond to the DNPP button on the current remote).

I don't know if Empeg would even be able to do that with their current manufacturer, though. I don't know how the keypads on these remotes are made, or whether that sort of thing is even possible.

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#14539 - 25/09/2000 15:05 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: tfabris]
rob
carpal tunnel

Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5320
Loc: Cambridge UK
We don't get to change the physical characteristics, period. Sorry!

Rob



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#14540 - 26/09/2000 13:34 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: rob]
tanstaafl.
carpal tunnel

Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5383
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
Tony: The best suggestion I heard was to have a "nipple" on the Enter button

Rob: We don't get to change the physical characteristics, period.

It would be about 15 seconds work for the owner of the remote (I am not suggesting the manufacturer do this) to put a drop of fast-setting epoxy on the Enter button. Suspend the remote upside down by the edges to keep the epoxy drop from flattening on the button, but instead assume an irritating shape as it dried.

It would work for me and requires minimal intervention on the part of empeg.

tanstaafl.

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"

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#14541 - 26/09/2000 13:46 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: tanstaafl.]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3824
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
did it...works great! I put it on the DNPP button about 2 weeks ago and it's still there holding strong.


|| loren.cox
|| 080000446
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|| loren ||

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#14542 - 26/09/2000 14:57 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: loren]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31179
Loc: Seattle, WA
What kind of glue did you use, Loren? I'd like to try it.

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#14543 - 26/09/2000 15:07 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: tfabris]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3824
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
Tony, i'm not sure of the brand, but i believe it's an epoxy. I'll check when i get home and post it up for ya =]


|| loren.cox
|| 080000446
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|| loren ||

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#14544 - 26/09/2000 20:49 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: loren]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3824
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
K, I've attached a picture of the epoxy dot on the remote. Unimpressive eh? As you can see it is tiny as all hell, but believe me it works well for being able to orient the remote and so that i rarely have to look at it to use it.

I used two part 5 minute epoxy that you can get at any hardware store. Mine is just generic Ace Hardware brand that i had laying around the house. I wouldn't go buy a tube of it just for this application cause it's pricey from what i remember. Hasn't anyone just tried a dab of Elmer's White Glue-All or something? seems like it would be adequate. I just picked epoxy 'cause i know it will stick for a while. =]


|| loren.cox
|| 080000446


Attachments
1-17985-epoxy_on_dnpp.jpg (113 downloads)

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|| loren ||

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#14545 - 02/10/2000 11:39 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: loren]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31179
Loc: Seattle, WA
I used two part 5 minute epoxy that you can get at any hardware store.

Thanks for this information. I did it (had some two-part 5 minute epoxy in the garage already), and I've lived with it for several days now, and I really like it.

I did it differently than you did, though. I was afraid that having the bump directly on the button's center would eventually damage the surface of the button.. So I did four small bumps around the button instead. Works great.

___________
Tony Fabris
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#14546 - 02/10/2000 13:48 Re: Remote Overlay [Re: tfabris]
loren
carpal tunnel

Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3824
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
How clever of ya. Hrm...how do you think it would damage the button? just curious. Nevertheless, it does work great eh?! No more fumbling for the right orientation! Actually, i might take a note from ya and put three or four drops around the * key in addition to the one drop on the DNPP. Those are the most often used reference keys for me, so that would help a ton, great idea!


|| loren.cox
|| 080000446
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|| loren ||

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