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#160255 - 17/07/2003 08:07 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: rob]
furtive
old hand

Registered: 14/08/2001
Posts: 886
Loc: London, UK
How near is that future getting? I'm going to the US at the end of August, and it if's for sale out there by then, I'll be able to spend some money...
_________________________
Mk2a RioCar 120Gb - now sold to the owner of my old car
Rio Karma - now on ebay...

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#160256 - 17/07/2003 08:10 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: furtive]
eliceo
enthusiast

Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 335
I think everyone would like to know when, as I am dying to part with my money for one. The toughest choice will be what 40 gigs of music to put on the player. Also will supply be an issue here in the US?

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#160257 - 17/07/2003 14:27 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: JBjorgen]
mschrag
pooh-bah

Registered: 09/09/2000
Posts: 2303
Loc: Richmond, VA
Sorry -- Tony's got a Karma already and you can bet he'll be visiting the Unofficial Karma BBS when it goes up

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#160258 - 17/07/2003 18:08 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: mschrag]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
The FAQs probably already at V2.3alpha2. And I bet you he's got every entry bookmarked, ready for the lightening fast responses.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#160259 - 18/07/2003 01:44 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: rob]
Phil.
pooh-bah

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2481
Is the group purchase thing still a possibility for the non-US guys?

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#160260 - 21/07/2003 13:07 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: Phil.]
PeterDLai
journeyman

Registered: 04/07/2003
Posts: 57
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
It's probably still on but since the final release date for the player hasn't been announced, I don't know how long it'll be after the release in the U.S. in which they'll do group purchase for people outside the U.S.

By the way, who's Tony and what is this all about? I don't know Empeg inside jokes hehe.
_________________________
Peter D. Lai

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#160261 - 21/07/2003 13:10 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
By the way, who's Tony and what is this all about?
Me, and the Hokey Pokey. In that order.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#160262 - 21/07/2003 13:10 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
PeterDLai
journeyman

Registered: 04/07/2003
Posts: 57
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
Err hmm I think I figured it out sort of. Does he write the FAQs for Empeg/Rio products?

I want to play around with a Karma.
_________________________
Peter D. Lai

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#160263 - 21/07/2003 13:12 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
By the way, who's Tony and what is this all about?
Should that be in the FAQ?
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#160264 - 21/07/2003 13:28 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
genixia
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
I want to play around with a Karma.


Get in line behind the rest of us.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962 sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.

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#160265 - 23/07/2003 18:27 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: genixia]
booey
member

Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 113
dam, i need a new player real bad, my old NEO Jukebox 2 is on its last legs, and the new IPOD looks soo slick, and its going for about $350 for a 15GB player.. I dunno if i can wait for the Karma!!

brian

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#160266 - 24/07/2003 04:10 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: booey]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
<Bart> Are we there yet? </Bart>

<Homer> Just a little further... </Homer>

If you get the iPod now, you may be regretting it in the near future... And even if <herecy> you don't like the Karma </herecy>, the extra competition and time would drive the iPod's price down further.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#160267 - 24/07/2003 08:05 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: pgrzelak]
eliceo
enthusiast

Registered: 18/02/2002
Posts: 335
so how are you going to go from 160 gb --> 40 gb ? Too bad we dont know a range for avaliability for pearl/karma. Shouldnt stores put it in their catalogs or inventories a couple of months before retail though?

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#160268 - 24/07/2003 08:17 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: eliceo]
booey
member

Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 113
damm.. 15 GB is more than enough for me.. what anyone can do with 160 GB of mp3's is beyond me. but thats just my opinion..
and as far as waiting to buy a player, well thats always gonna be the case in the electronics industry. always gonna be a newer,better, and cheaper model out.. we all know that
did we get any kind of price range for the karma yet? im hoping its cheaper than the IPOD, although nothing can compete with the sleek design of the ipod, no denying that.

brian

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#160269 - 24/07/2003 08:40 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: booey]
mwest
old hand

Registered: 01/05/2003
Posts: 768
Loc: Ada, Oklahoma
Most people that I've seen pegging out anything over 120 GB are either audiobook people or they are ripping at a very high bit rate.
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-Michael West

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#160270 - 24/07/2003 08:49 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: mwest]
wfaulk
carpal tunnel

Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
Keep in mind that even at maximum mp3 bitrate (320kbps), 120GB of storage is about 1000 CDs, assuming a 50 minute CD length on average.

A more sane average of about 200kbps yields enough space for 1600 CDs.

Hell, even recording full-on WAVs, that's enough space for 450 CDs.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk

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#160271 - 24/07/2003 08:54 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: booey]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I thought I'd never need more than 10 gigs, and I probably would have been right if I hadn't started putting on audio books and my wife's country music. Also I keep putting on full albums whether I like all the songs or not, just so I have them for whatever reason (which I probably wouldn't do on the Pearl).

Even at that I'm still under 30 gigs, though if I keep putting on audio books I'll eat that up quickly. Audio books, however, make more sense in the car than on a portable like the Pearl. Or rather if you put them on the Pearl, you won't need more than one on at a time. I suppose the same could be said for the car player too, but as long as I have the space I'll keep loading it up!
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#160272 - 24/07/2003 09:03 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: JeffS]
tman
carpal tunnel

Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
When ever I've had audiobooks on my empeg I've had the bitrate fairly low. 128kbps was good enough for me and it should allow you have a fair bit on there. Music however I have at 192+ because the artifacts drive me nuts. Annoyingly, I never used to notice the artifacts until somebody pointed them out. Now I can spot them a mile off!

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#160273 - 24/07/2003 09:08 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tman]
JeffS
carpal tunnel

Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Yeah, you can do them fairly low. However, some of them are really loooong. LOTR is 46 CDs and the last Harry Potter book is 23. Someday I might get around to getting the Bible on CD (which I think is around 60). Even at 128 that still ends up taking up some space.
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.

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#160274 - 24/07/2003 09:28 Space, the final frontier... [Re: JeffS]
pgrzelak
carpal tunnel

Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Greetings!

Let's see...

how are you going to go from 160 gb --> 40 gb

I am not certain yet. I have a favorites playlist that I keep randomized for short trips. That only has about 2,000 tracks, so that should fit on the Pearl.

Most people that I've seen pegging out anything over 120 GB are either audiobook people or they are ripping at a very high bit rate.

Or both...

A more sane average of about 200kbps yields enough space for 1600 CDs.

Actually, that is about right.

I keep putting on full albums whether I like all the songs or not, just so I have them for whatever reason (which I probably wouldn't do on the Pearl).

Same here. Since the car player is docked at the office, I have the entire library here on demand and online.

You can never have too much space...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs

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#160275 - 24/07/2003 12:15 Re: Space, the final frontier... [Re: pgrzelak]
bootsy
enthusiast

Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
I hear the "5GB is enough for anyone" argument all the time. I didn't think it would show up here, of all places.

I bought my Empeg for the main reason that I was tired of carrying a big case of CDs, only to find the one I wanted was at home. Hell, I had been dreaming of the ability to carry my entire music collection for years before I found the sweet, sweet empeg...

Now the technology to do that has shrunk to the handheld size, and I am more than ready. I currently have about ~50GB of Mp3s, mostly VBR, but I am still upgrading from 128k CBR. There is some pruning I can do, bootlegs and such I keep just for fun, but I waould really like to fit ALL my music PLUS a few Gigs free for work backups and usefull utilities.

This places my current minimum at about 60 GB. I could have that today with my Archos, but I am so eager to see what empeg has come up with I am willing to wait... a little... longer...

"You can never have too much Space"
AMEN!
_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."

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#160276 - 24/07/2003 13:51 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: altman]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
Following this thread, all 27 pages (57 printed) of it, has been so heart-wrenching, it's moved me to register (even though I don't own an empeg car/Rio Car, in order to post my own ignominious (yet vainglorious) drivel!

I'll begin with a techno-dweeb follow-up question to a post from 10 weeks ago (how's that for 'netiquette?) mentioning that the Rio Karma will have an onboard USB host controller (implying that would allow for certain kinds of "expansion").

So will the onboard interface allow for file transfer directly to a connected USB slave device, say a USB mass storage device (doubling as a basic flash-memory MP3 player; you know what I'm getting at) *without* a PC involved at all?

You also haven't given details on the display, although it looks pretty nifty in RobV's pictures. One would assume it will support music-synchronized animations like the car unit?

OK, that was 2 questions. Already overstayed my welcome.
_________________________
-- DLF

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#160277 - 24/07/2003 14:18 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: DLF]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
So will the onboard interface allow for file transfer directly to a connected USB slave device, say a USB mass storage device (doubling as a basic flash-memory MP3 player; you know what I'm getting at) *without* a PC involved at all?
Although the hardware electronics in the Karma could (as described in that old thread) theoretically support something like that, it is not known whether or not the player firmware will be written to actually do it.

Keep in mind that, in order to do that, the player firmware would need drivers for the device in question and then the user interface would need to be written. I'm sure their hands are full just getting the thing working with a basic feature set right now.
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#160278 - 24/07/2003 14:32 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: booey]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
>> did we get any kind of price range for the karma yet?

No, but I did make big whopping inferences from a couple of Rob's earlier posts: namely, that it's aimed at the high end users who appreciate things like fully parametric EQ, and that the sizes offered will both be "larger than the equivalent new iPod capacity." His use of the e-word made me think: $399 for a unit 1/3 bigger (20GB) than a 15GB iPod & $499 for the unit 1/3 bigger (40GB) than a 30GB iPod. Both with docks.

Can almost hear the sound of D&M marketing cringing audibly. Hey, I'm just making stuff up for my own edutainment.
_________________________
-- DLF

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#160279 - 24/07/2003 14:55 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: DLF]
tfabris
carpal tunnel

Registered: 20/12/1999
Posts: 31286
Loc: Seattle, WA
To throw gasoline on the flame, I'm going to ask this question...

If that were true (I'm not saying it is, and I'd be willing to bet that even D&M haven't made a final decision on prices yet anyway since the thing is still in development), what would you think of that pricing scheme?
_________________________
Tony Fabris

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#160280 - 24/07/2003 21:38 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tfabris]
PeterDLai
journeyman

Registered: 04/07/2003
Posts: 57
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
If that was the pricing scheme, it wouldn't be too bad, but then again it wouldn't make it the definite choice for me.

There's plenty of options out there, and unless the Rio Karma proves to be awesome in features (which I suspect that it will be), I might reconsider getting something that has been out a bit longer with possible dropping prices.

Then again I've never owned a Rio product (ahh don't ban me!), so I don't know firsthand the quality and capabilities of their products.

Just on another note, I don't think Creative Labs will put much competition out in the HDD player category soon at least. Creative in Asia now have the Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen NX, which is just a slight improvement over the original Zen. It's smaller and lighter, but not by that much (it can't compare to a new iPod). There aren't any noticeable major features added to it, except that it looks more sleek than the original (besides still being somewhat bulky). It comes in 20 and 30 GB capacities. Click here for more information! We do not know if it will be available in America, however, and my guess is that they won't design a different one for America (if they do release a newer design). It doesn't seem very special at all.
_________________________
Peter D. Lai

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#160281 - 25/07/2003 10:41 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: PeterDLai]
booey
member

Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 113
geez , that nomad ZEN NX has absolutely no style whatsoever.. my old Neo Jukebox looks more attractive than that thing. dunno what their thinking there..
If you had the choice of these 2 players, which one would you definately pick? not an easy decision..
1. New IPOD 15GB $350 - http://ipod.com/ipod
2. Karma 20GB $399 (not official price)
Dam, i want both!

brian

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#160282 - 25/07/2003 13:03 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: booey]
bootsy
enthusiast

Registered: 17/08/2000
Posts: 334
Loc: Seattle, WA. USA
Karma.... hands down. The Jemplodish (take that IEspell!) software riding in the Karma sells me.

The thing is, at $399 is the Karma's software/physical dimensions going to sell me over the function and possibly inexpensive upgradeable nature of the RCA Lyra or the more expensive Archos AV300?

Inquiring minds want to know...
PS: Check out the 3D views of the Archos. The camera attachment is rather clever.
_________________________
Brian H. Johnson
MK2 36GB Blue, currently on life support
"RIP RCR..."

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#160283 - 25/07/2003 13:29 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: bootsy]
booey
member

Registered: 31/12/2001
Posts: 113
man, both those units look sweet. some Archos products have been known to be quite "glitchy" tho.. wonder if this unit is any better, and it is 600 bux.. too expensive for my blood.
I was even thinking about this unit, walmart sells them.
portable DVD/VCD player, and plays mp3's. Burn a few DVD's of mp3 and its not too bad for the money!
Initial 8-inch Portable DVD/VCD Player
Initial 7-inch Portable DVD/VCD Player
Initial 4.2 -inch Portable DVD/VCD Player




brian

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#160284 - 25/07/2003 15:25 Re: Best Portable player right now? [Re: tfabris]
DLF
addict

Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
You'd probably like a simple or on the "Are they worth it?"

Clearly, you don't know me very well (yet).

It all boils down to a four-letter word. You've got to do what the sleeker-looking iPods have done, and that is get people to say COOL when they see it. Or PHAT. Or whatever it is they say these days. Apple's done it, and it's daunting competition, especially if the Windows integration with iTunes & Music Store happens in time for U.S. Christmas shopping! Matching Apple on price with a bit higher capacity (but not an order of magnitude higher, since nobody needs that) isn't gonna cut it; you've got to offer something cooler or more compelling. The Karma's form factor will appeal to some; others will still prefer the PDA-like iPod. So that's a wash. One potentially compelling quality for the Rio will be transfer speed over 100MB Ethernet, which matters w/multi-GB devices (and most people don't have USB 2.0 yet, so deemphasizing USB 1.1 speed is appropriate). From what I've already read on this board, we can presume the software/firmware will be compelling and rock-solid. Hard to sell products like this on non-sexy qualities like reliability (i.e., it must be a computer product with CE-style indestructability), but obviously that'll be important long-term for reputation sake.

My advice if D&M Marketing is lurking (Ha!) is to really make the in-store packaging and display snazzy. Show that big blue display dancing to the music. (I've seen Best Buy displays of the Zen that made it look cool, and it's a boring brick.)

So, bottom line is that yes, I'd be willing to pay that, but I'm the niche market if ever there was one. I'd give anything to know what Apple's sales figures have been for the 15GB & 30GB iPods, as compared to the $299 10GB model w/o the dock. It would be bad news if it turns out that the consumer mass market just won't pay more than $300 for digital audio players, no matter how cool (or huge the capacity). Hope that's false, but this is the era of the $50 DVD player
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-- DLF

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