#173219 - 01/08/2003 09:11
Rio Karma Forums?
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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With the release of the Rio Karma coming up in the near future, there are a lot of Karma threads popping up. These are, of course, somewhat on topic on the empeg/riocar BBS, since the Cambridge team was involved with the Karma, and many of us who own empegs are also going to have interest in a portable player. However, I am starting to think that it might be a good idea to create two or three Karma-specific forums on the BBS to help people get to the information they want more easily.
The Rio Central and Receiver actually have their own BBS, so I guess Tom could create a Karma-only BBS... But I never really liked the idea of having separate logins, separate UI, etc. for the forums when there is going to be a lot of overlap between users. So I propose that the Forum Gods (Tom, Tony, etc.) put their heads together and come up with a new way of organizing the forums on this BBS. Something like this, maybe:
General
-- Announcements
-- Off Topic
-- For Sale
-- ICE
-- Reviews
empeg/riocar
-- General
-- Technical
-- Programming
-- Wish List
-- Bug Reports
-- Installation Notes
-- Projects
Rio Karma
-- General
-- Technical
-- Wish List
-- Bug Reports
If there is a way to bring over the Rio Central/Receiver messages and user accounts to this BBS, we could create a heading for that as well, and move those forums over. I don't know how much of a hassle that is, though, and I know Tom is kinda busy these days.
The Karma, since it's not quite as "geek-friendly" as the empeg, probably won't need as many forums. I don't see the need for a "Programming" forum for a device that doesn't run user applications, for instance. It'd also be good to get the forums set up prior to the Karma release, so that all the pre-release discussions are already in the right place.
This isn't a no-brainer, I'm afraid. Expanding the scope of these forums has some other consequences, which includes drawing a potentially large number of new users to the forums, including the "off topic" area that we treasure so much. I see this as a potentially good thing, but I just wanted to bring it up so that people don't blame me for coming up with a great idea that ruins the "culture" of the BBS. That being said, I think the net effect of expanding the BBS to include the Karma and the Receiver/Central would be positive.
So, comments?
Oh yeah, and we need a Rio Karma FAQ Master... But something tells me we won't have to look very far for a candidate with the proper credentials...
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#173220 - 01/08/2003 09:17
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Karma forums should be seperate (possibly not even hosted by Tom). Chodes that buy the Karma would taint this board.
I think Rio handhelds already have a somewhat successful forum actually.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173221 - 01/08/2003 09:40
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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At first... i agreed with the idea because i hate the Rio Receiver board being seperate... mostly because i forget about it =]. But then i remembered, as rob pointed out, that the usebase for the Karma is probably going to be WAY bigger than even the empeg. This board is my last sanctuary on the web, and if was inundated with thousands more people, i would probably forsake the web forever. Okay, that's a little dramatic, but you get my point. The board would definitely be tainted by a large influx of people, even if the forums were seperated on the front page.
I vote for a seperate board.
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#173222 - 01/08/2003 09:45
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
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_________________________
-- roger
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#173223 - 01/08/2003 09:47
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 14/01/2002
Posts: 2858
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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hmmm, I'm of two minds here. I understand the whole "taint the board" thing, but being change resistant isn't a good policy for keeping something healthy. I do think that at least one section for the Karma would be good here, but that doesn't mean it has to supplant another board somewhere else. But if people here want to discuss a topic in great detail, why not make it easier for them/ us to find what we're looking for here?
_________________________
-Jeff
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings; they did it by killing all those who opposed them.
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#173224 - 01/08/2003 09:48
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Karma forums should be seperate (possibly not even hosted by Tom). Chodes that buy the Karma would taint this board. Er, didn't you just buy one? 
I get your point, and alluded to it in my post. Yes, we'd get an influx of new people, but why are we to assume they're "chodes?"
I am not suggesting this become an "all things Rio" BBS... But the Karma seems to fit in nicely with the existing products that have forums hosted here, and with the number of discussions that are already popping up about it, I thought it might be nice to have dedicated forums.
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#173225 - 01/08/2003 09:50
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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wow. the riot forum is worthless.
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#173226 - 01/08/2003 09:53
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: JeffS]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Empeg employees post to the Rioworld.com forum last time I saw. All the help you need with the Karma can be gotten there.
I, for one, wouldn't be disappointed to see this board's registration closed. Then, if you wanted to register, you would have to be by invitation or screened first. That may seem extreme, but I think the board is pretty exceptional the way it is and should not change too much just because the empeg team is designing all the Rio stuff now. This is the empeg bbs. Not the Empeg Ltd. BBS. Peace!
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173227 - 01/08/2003 09:55
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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The board would definitely be tainted by a large influx of people, even if the forums were seperated on the front page. I'm not so sure about that... Many people (myself included) feared that the forums would be tainted by the fire sale, and for awhile, there was an adjustment period... But you know what? Many of the folks that joined after getting a $199 riocar are some of our best posters here. To tell you the truth, the user base was getting stale back then, and having new people from the fire sale has made things a lot more fun.
Now, the user base is definitely not stale now, but what about in a year or two or three? I plan on my empegs lasting forever, but over time, there will be attrition as people drop off the scene. We've already had some of our most dedicated contributors leave, even though they might still own and use their empegs.
The Karma happens to be somewhere in a gray area between an empeg-like product and a conventional Rio-based handheld. I'd say that although it's a handheld, it sounds like the closest thing you'll get to having an "empeg in your pocket." So why don't we take a chance, establish some Karma forums, and see what happens? That RioWorld site has *one* thread mentioning the Karma, and I believe it was posted by one of our members from here (there aren't that many Rory's around, are there?) This seems to be the right place for a few Karma forums, and I think would be good for the culture of the BBS in the long run as well.
And if it sucks, we can always trash those forums and point people to RioWorld.. I just think it's worth taking a shot.
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#173228 - 01/08/2003 09:58
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Er, didn't you just buy one? Yeah, I did but I am the exception. Yes, we'd get an influx of new people, but why are we to assume they're "chodes?" Look at any other forum. Plus this is a device with a relatively low price that is commonly used with thefted music. What we have here is extremely unique and I wouldn't change it for the world.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173229 - 01/08/2003 10:00
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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To tell you the truth, the user base was getting stale back then This is true. I remember those couple of months just before the firesale. The BBS was pretty dead.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173230 - 01/08/2003 10:04
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Many people (myself included) feared that the forums would be tainted by the fire sale
I am one of the users who bought an Empeg and found this BBS through the fire sale, but I bought an Empeg, not a totally different product. The Empeg had a production run of about 4000 units (off the top of my head) and it is much more involved to install and upgrade than a portable unit. Really, how much discussion is going to occur about the Karma before most everything has been said? With the Empeg, new things are popping up all the time (Emphatic, Palantir, EmpegFace) and more could be expected because the Empeg is an extremely open platform that runs Linux, not a firmware-based portable.
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#173231 - 01/08/2003 10:06
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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After the firesale, the influx of new users made me quit reading the board for a few months... not because of the quality of the posts, but the quantity. As it is it's STILL hard to keep up with all the posts on this board on a daily basis, though it's finally starting to slow. I know two people personally who no longer come here simply because they didn't have time to keep up with all the posts. It would suck to create a new wave of people posting in the other forums. On top of that, the more people we have the more chance of trolls messing around in the other foums. We've been VERY lucky to only have a few in the history of this BBS, and i'd hate to see it go down the drain because of trolls. Yes, i'm being very pessimistic and wanting to hold on to the past and all that... but seriously, how many people on here comment every week that this is the best board on the web... EVAR. Why even CHANCE farking that up??
Just had another pessimistic thought.... we'd have a ton of new people with Karma's who probably never heard of the empeg, and would start to get interested in buying them and taking up all of our spare parts! hahah. 
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#173232 - 01/08/2003 10:08
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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...open platform that runs Linux, not a firmware-based portable. Karma is not a firmware-based portable. It is pretty-much a handheld empeg but happens to run a non-GPL'd OS (can't remeber which one).
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173233 - 01/08/2003 10:13
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: robricc]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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Karma is not a firmware-based portable. It is pretty-much a handheld empeg but happens to run a non-GPL'd OS (can't remeber which one).
Ok, I stand corrected! That still doesn't mean that people could port linux packages to it (like we can do with the Empeg).
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#173234 - 01/08/2003 10:13
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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What we have here is extremely unique and I wouldn't change it for the world. I agree. The fact that not one of us could come up with any comparable off-topic forums underscores that. Which is why I think we should try to take steps to make sure that as time goes on, the BBS still has a way to bring in new contributors. Closing user registration would be fine for a year or so, but eventually, things are going to change, and if there's no connection to a more current product, there's no way to keep things rolling with a new generation of users. Plus this is a device with a relatively low price that is commonly used with thefted music. I'm not sure what you're saying here. I don't think you have to look too far on this BBS to find empegs with "thefted music"... And the price point angle is moot when you look at the net gain we got since the fire sale, where Mk2a's were going for far less than the MSRP of the Karma. A lot of new people came in, a few of them were clowns, and the clowns went away. The net effect was positive.
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#173235 - 01/08/2003 10:17
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I don't think you have to look too far on this BBS to find empegs with "thefted music"... Yeah, but the empeg community definitely has less of that element. And the price point angle is moot when you look at the net gain we got since the fire sale Yeah, but just buying an empeg is not the end of the purchase. You must also then buy amps, installation, and own a car (in most cases).
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173236 - 01/08/2003 10:19
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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addict
Registered: 03/03/2002
Posts: 687
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia
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I don't think you have to look too far on this BBS to find empegs with "thefted music"...
*whistles innocently.. Moves on..*
Anyways, at first I thought it was a good idea, but.. not too sure now. We WILL have alot of peeps what have the Karma that aren't as 'geeky' as us.
This means that we'd have alot of people asking FAQ questions (even if we HAD a FAQ.. they'd ask anyways..); we'd have alot of folks thinking it was some sort of "support" forums. and so on.. Not to mention Karma people going into the Empeg forums and asking questions about that, etc etc..
Me.
_________________________
Mike 'Fox' Morrey
128BPM@124MPH. Love it!
2002 BRG Mini Cooper
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#173237 - 01/08/2003 10:21
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: cushman]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Really, how much discussion is going to occur about the Karma before most everything has been said? Well, that's why in my original statement I didn't have ten Karma forums, just four. The last two being very worthwhile, since I doubt the first generation of Karmas will be perfect, and this would provide a place to collect good ideas for improvements, as well as a place to discuss any bugs. I think that as long as the Karma is the top-of-the-line portable that we think it's going to be, there will be enough to talk about. There are active iPod forums, after all, and the Karma is supposed to be the iPod killer.
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#173238 - 01/08/2003 10:25
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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How about this then...
If we are to have a Karma forum, make it only visible once you are signed in. That way, google is unlikely to pick it up and when someone types in 'Karma forums', they don't get a hit here. We would still get to talk about it in a sane manner, but would be somewhat seperate from the average 16-year old downloading Marilyn Manson from Kazaa.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173239 - 01/08/2003 10:29
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: robricc]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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i very much like that idea, except for the bit where you seem to be ripping on marilyn manson listeners
:P
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#173240 - 01/08/2003 10:37
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: foxtrot_xray]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Anyways, at first I thought it was a good idea, but.. not too sure now. We WILL have alot of peeps what have the Karma that aren't as 'geeky' as us. The Karma seems to be geeky enough that the geekdom of this BBS is tripping over one another trying to order one...
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#173241 - 01/08/2003 10:39
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: robricc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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If we are to have a Karma forum, make it only visible once you are signed in. That's not a bad compromise. That'd allow our Karma threads to be in the right place without affecting our other forums, but wouldn't attract the Johnny-Come-Latelies that everyone seems to be scared of. I still don't see what the big deal is, I mean, the iPod forums don't seem to be overrun with too many schmucks, and we could always protect our existing Off Topic forums or restrict access to "old school playas" from the current user base... There are other options, I just thought it was a good time to start thinking of those options.
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#173242 - 01/08/2003 10:43
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: loren]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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After the firesale, the influx of new users made me quit reading the board for a few months...
Gotta agree with Loren. It took about a year after the firesale for this bbs to settle down to the point where I could follow most of the forums again. It is obviously beneficial to have some influx of new users, but inviting in thousands of karma owners doesn't sound like the best idea to me. I think we would lose a lot of the current regulars as the post ratio began to lean towards more Karma discussions (I for one have no immediate plans to purchase a Karma and therefor not much interest in reading discussions about them).
-Mike
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#173243 - 01/08/2003 10:44
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I was generally against this idea, but Mk2a's were going for far less than the MSRP of the Karma. A lot of new people came in, a few of them were clowns, and the clowns went away. The net effect was positive. is a very good point.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#173244 - 01/08/2003 10:51
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: mcomb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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inviting in thousands of karma owners doesn't sound like the best idea to me. Well it sounds like there will be at least a couple hundred Karma owners pretty soon, and that's with no change to the existing user base... Wouldn't it be nice if those threads were in their own little forum that non-Karma owners could choose to ignore? Or just visit on occasion? I think we would lose a lot of the current regulars as the post ratio began to lean towards more Karma discussions Again, the Karma discussions will be in the Karma General forum, or the Karma Technical forum. empeg discussions will be in the empeg General forum or the empeg Technical forum. The empeg forums might have a few Karma noobs poking around, but in general, they aren't going to care about what goes on in the empeg forums.
If anything, my intention with this was to *preserve* the integrity of the existing Empeg forums, by having a separate place for Karma stuff to go. In so doing, I thought it'd be interesting to see if we can't *benefit* from the fact that Rio is releasing another cutting-edge product.
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#173245 - 01/08/2003 10:52
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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While I do like the idea of having sections devoted to the Rio Karma, I do have to wonder what additional load it would put on the servers. The additional bandwith and CPU resources might make the board more noticible on its current host, and could make the free hosting offer run out.
I would have to address this situation with the person who is responsible for paying the bills before any official decision on my part can be made.
For the record, unification of user logins across riocar.org, this BBS and the RioReceiver has always been a goal of mine.
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#173246 - 01/08/2003 10:55
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: RobotCaleb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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you seem to be ripping on marilyn manson listeners No worries. I myself like Marilyn Manson a lot.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173247 - 01/08/2003 11:01
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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Wouldn't it be nice if those threads were in their own little forum that non-Karma owners could choose to ignore?
Agreed, and I am warming to the idea of having a separate karma forum that does not show up until you are logged in as somebody suggested.
Again, the Karma discussions will be in the Karma General forum, or the Karma Technical forum. empeg discussions will be in the empeg General forum or the empeg Technical forum.
That is the optimistic viewpoint that assumes the majority of Karma owners will be intelligent enough to figure out where to post. Plus you still have the issue of a lot of extra posts to the shared forums which would likely drive down the signal to noise ratio there.
-Mike
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#173248 - 01/08/2003 11:02
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: drakino]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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For the record, unification of user logins across riocar.org, this BBS and the RioReceiver has always been a goal of mine.
Yes, please, please, please...
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#173249 - 01/08/2003 11:07
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: mcomb]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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I was a penniless university student before the fire sale. I could just about afford the groceries back then, no way could I afford an empeg. I don't wish to offend but I get the definate feeling that some people on this board regard us firesale buyers as something they scraped off their shoe, not fit (or affluent more accurately) to have owned an empeg at its full retail value.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#173250 - 01/08/2003 11:12
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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No, but that's what some of us expected, and, for a while, we were proven right. But as Tony points out, the cream rose to the top, and many of you are our best posters. We had much the same discussion before you guys showed up.
The one big difference between that situation and this is that you still had to go out of your way to buy or even know about an empeg. The Karma will be available at BestBuy.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#173251 - 01/08/2003 11:14
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I don't think any offense is intented. It is just that the player (in the MarkI, MarkII and MarkIIa form) had been around for years before the firesale. The community was still around. Much smaller, certainly. It is not a matter of affluence or anything, just that there had been a core group of users back then and then there was a sudden, huge influx of new people, nearly tripling (I would be curious about the numbers some day) the users on the board overnight.
Disclaimer: I am a mid-comer. I was not involved in the MarkI, but I did get a MarkII.
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#173252 - 01/08/2003 11:15
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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not fit (or affluent more accurately) to have owned an empeg at its full retail value. Damn it, I so did not want to go here in this thread...
If you think everyone who owned an empeg before the fire sale was "affluent" you are very mistaken.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't anticipate anything changing when the prices went down, but things did change. A lot of straight up dopes started frequenting the BBS. They went away. The fact that they were dopes had nothing to do with their income, they were just dopes.
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#173253 - 01/08/2003 11:15
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: andym]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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If I come-off that way to you, I am sorry. I really never meant to imply that, nor do I think that way.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173254 - 01/08/2003 11:16
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/02/2002
Posts: 3411
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A lot of stuff has been said here that I agree with. i certainly dont want to see the forums overrun with 733t 5p34k1n6 testerone-overloaded teens who think that they are the Shiz cos of their phat kazaa-leached mp3 collection yet cant be bothered to punctuate their posts let alone use the search feature - y dont u just tell me how 2 do it cos i dont have time to search
It is important to remember that out of 4000 empegs sold, maybe 200 (?) owners are regular posters on this forum, ie 1 in 20. If 1 in 10 of Karma owners ended up being regular posters here, that could easily exceed 10,000 new people. (Obviously I don't know what the target sales figures are, but I think that 100,000 units is probably on the low side).
I doubt very much that the culture of this BBS would survive as it is - face it, if you take a small town of 200 Chinese people and then add a population of 10,000 Germans, you can be sure that before long the Chinese culture would become marginalised.
That all being said, I am sure that there will be plenty of Karma owners who would prove to be valuable forum members, and who would add to the wonderful atmosphere that prevails here. I am sure that the Rio Marketing Department aren't only marketing their new flagship product to the annoying folk.
I'm in favo[u]r of a non-spiderable Karma forum being added to this BBS, but preferably in conjunction with a separate more complete set of Karma-related forums elsewhere. Let the masses use the other forums, and leave the one here for those who have the intelligence and inclination to discover and use it.
I hate being cliquey. But I'm too fond of this place.
_________________________
Mk2a 60GB Blue. Serial 030102962
sig.mp3: File Format not Valid.
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#173255 - 01/08/2003 11:18
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: andym]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 31/08/1999
Posts: 1649
Loc: San Carlos, CA
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I don't wish to offend but I get the definate feeling that some people on this board regard us firesale buyers as something they scraped off their shoe, not fit (or affluent more accurately) to have owned an empeg at its full retail value.
 I certainly didn't mean to give that impression! All I meant was that one of the things that I like about this board is that its membership is relatively small. It is actually possible to remember names and information about most of the regulars. A massive influx of members regardless of how or why they join would ruin that for me. I can find enough time in the day to scan a couple hundred posts, but if the board gets much more popular than that (like it did during the firesale) there is just to much traffic and too many people to keep up with.
-Mike
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#173256 - 01/08/2003 11:19
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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If you think everyone who owned an empeg before the fire sale was "affluent" you are very mistaken. I think I was 18 or 19 when I bought my MkII for $1300. Affluent I certainly was not. I just knew what I wanted.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173257 - 01/08/2003 11:20
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: genixia]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Having read the arguments thus far, I cheerfully accept the friendly amendments proposed by robricc and genixia.
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#173258 - 01/08/2003 11:20
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: drakino]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 13/07/2000
Posts: 4172
Loc: Cambridge, England
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While I do like the idea of having sections devoted to the Rio Karma, I do have to wonder what additional load it would put on the servers Yeah, I was going to mention that. Much as we love you lot, we're rather hoping to sell whoppingly more Karmas than we ever did car-players.
Peter
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#173259 - 01/08/2003 11:53
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: peter]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 23/08/2000
Posts: 3826
Loc: SLC, UT, USA
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I just don't get why you'd wanna risk the integrity of this board just to make it more convenient. Why not just start a new board or add the forum to the already existing rioworld.org, which is all about portable Rio's? This is an empeg/rio car BBS.
The cream could rise to the top just as easy on a new board as it could here. It seems to me that the few of us (relatively speaking) who will own a Karma and that would benefit from the forum being here doesn't outweigh the majority of us who could possibly be negatively impacted by it. If some of you guys mention the empeg on the seperate forum, and that attracts new folk, it would seem a better bet to me.
Genixia's argument about the number of people is valid. There are a ton of people who luck this board that rarely or never post.. the number that would do the same on a Karma forum would be way bigger and could potentially triple the bandwidth. It's all speculation of course... and in the end it's up to Drakino.
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#173260 - 01/08/2003 11:57
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: loren]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 30/10/2000
Posts: 4931
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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I lean more towards the "do not install a karma forum on this BBS" platform. Like I said earlier. This is an empeg BBS, not Empeg Ltd. BBS.
_________________________
-Rob Riccardelli
80GB 16MB MK2 090000736
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#173261 - 01/08/2003 12:23
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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new poster
Registered: 06/07/2003
Posts: 6
Loc: Your mom's bed
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1 l0v3 +3H 1de4 0f Com81n1N9 T3H 3MpE9 b85 WiTh k4rm4.
1F J00 D0N'T d0 i+, 1 W1LL 5icK m3LI55@ 0n y0uR pUNK 4$$.
DiD J00 DOwNL0@d TH4T nEw koRn cD? 1+ ROCK5!
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#173262 - 01/08/2003 12:30
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: goooberhead]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 15/01/2002
Posts: 1866
Loc: Austin
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#173263 - 01/08/2003 12:31
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: goooberhead]
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veteran
Registered: 01/10/2001
Posts: 1307
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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Your karma belongs to us.
Anyway, I've been a casual lurker on this forum since it started - I got one of the Mk1:s to prove it
But the volume right now is about the max for me to be able to keep up with - any more, and I would drop off again.
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#173264 - 01/08/2003 16:20
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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OK, I'm going to chime in since I'm somebody about whom you're directly talking. That is, I am somebody who searched "Rio Pearl," then joined this forum for no other reasons than:
1. It seemed like the best place to keep up on "pearl's" status
2. The people posting here seemed like a most excellent community. (Hell, a clear majority here not only punctuate, but also spellcheck posts. That's more than "chodes" do to resumes and marriage licenses.)
As an aside, 'though I don't own an empeg/Rio Car unit ( *yet*), it's got a near-mythical reputation among people like me, as you know. So methinks some "Karma people" will know just what they're getting themselves into.
So, here are the points I'd like to make. First, the site is already a resource and can be found via web searches, so that cat is out of the bag already. Don't know if "hiding" Karma forums until after login solves that or not (e.g., are you going to scrub the existing forums for any passing reference to pearl or karma?).
Secondly, I saw RioWorld.org and disagree with robricc that it's somewhat successful. 1144 lifetime forum users for *all* Rio handhelds vs. your twice as many for just empegs? Say what? Then I read a few. Seems like an awfully high s/n ratio. I came to the same conclusion as loren: not so good. Of course, that's not your fault, and that's clearly the proper place today for Rio handheld stuff. So, the question is what to do about the fact that this existing audience would be underserved if you choose not to establish Karmatalk here. The answer indeed may be yet another, separate board (Hey, I've got it: RioKar.org or is that scary?)
I tend to think genixia has the right balanced view.
He said: I hate being cliquey.
But here's what's funny about that: I consider the Internet the greatest communication tool of the 20th century (counting phones as 19th c.) precisely because of how it has helped people erase national/international boundaries that separated them from participating in open, shared communities. Y'know, precisely like the one whose integrity you are so jealously (and absolutely rightfully) trying to guard here.
So good luck. I'll keep coming back until I'm banned!
_________________________
-- DLF
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#173265 - 01/08/2003 17:48
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: DLF]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 15/08/2000
Posts: 4859
Loc: New Jersey, USA
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Greetings!
Oh, I don't think anyone would want to ban you. There are very few instances of that here, and usually for specific reasons. It is truly pretty pointless, anyway, being that this is still an open board, searchable to the world.
I agree that this really is the best place to keep up with the new developments in Rio technology. You have the software and hardware developers here, and probably a bunch of the alpha and beta test crowd as well.
I also agree that this community is something usual to the internet. I do not linger on any other board, because of the signal / noise ratio you mention. Also, there are no other boards that really have the span of people, skills, interests and that get along (most of the time) well enough to discuss almost anything intelligently. (Please see the posting about "Other Off Topic Forums" in the Off Topic forum.)
I think the greatest concern is having the community become diluted to the signal / noise ratio so common on other boards. The thought of this board becoming another slash-dot / "leet speak" / "me too" threaded board is horrifying to myself and probably a lot of other people here. (With the possible exception of the "me too" postings seen on the Karma Pre-Order thread...)
You are a valuable addition to the board: keep posting!!! And, if you are interested in getting an empeg, post - I am certain someone here will be able to help you out...
_________________________
Paul Grzelak
200GB with 48MB RAM, Illuminated Buttons and Digital Outputs
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#173266 - 01/08/2003 18:11
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: DLF]
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veteran
Registered: 21/01/2002
Posts: 1380
Loc: Erie, CO
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I tend to think genixia has the right balanced view.
He said: I hate being cliquey.
But here's what's funny about that: I consider the Internet the greatest communication tool of the 20th century (counting phones as 19th c.) precisely because of how it has helped people erase national/international boundaries that separated them from participating in open, shared communities. Y'know, precisely like the one whose integrity you are so jealously (and absolutely rightfully) trying to guard here.
I don't see it as being cliquey. I think a good analogy (music-related, of course) for this discussion would be:
I would not like to see Leo Kottke (acoustical guitar playing god) open for the Offspring (punk rock demi-gods) because the audience and venue would not suit his playing style. He would be better off in a small coffeshop with people who already listen to his music. They are both good musical acts, they should just be good separately.
I think that while there is overlap within this BBS of Karma owners, the majority of Karma owners will not care about the Empeg at all. they will just use aux-ins for the Karma or tape adapters in their cars.
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#173267 - 01/08/2003 18:34
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: cushman]
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addict
Registered: 24/07/2003
Posts: 500
Loc: Colorado, N.A.
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Agreed. It's the overlap in the other direction you want to be serving: namely empeg owners who want to discuss Karma. Let the enterprising Karma owners without a connection to empeg found their own board, or just use the one at RioWorld.
I really can't disagree with that approach.
_________________________
-- DLF
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#173268 - 01/08/2003 21:06
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/07/1999
Posts: 5539
Loc: Ajijic, Mexico
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So, comments?
This bbs encompasses the most extraordinary group of people with whom it has ever been my privilege to associate. The depth of knowledge, skill, compassion, and willingness to share is unparallelled.
A large factor contributing to this is the nature of the original "entrance requirements" to be on this bbs: if you weren't an audiophile computer geek willing and able to spend $1500-$2000 on a toy to put in your car, then you would not likely have come here. When you put that sort of filter on the participants, then chances are you are going to get some good people. Yes, those entrance requirements changed somewhat with the advent of the fire sale(s), but I think that the example set by the original core group served to guide the newcomers and maintain the quality of the bbs.
Adding Karma to this bbs will have two (at least) negative effects that IMHO will far outweigh any advantages of convenience to the minority of users who will have both empeg and Karma players. (1) The sheer quantity of posts will make it difficult if not impossible to keep up with the bbs, and will impose an excessive load on the bandwidth of the server; and (2) the very large influx of new Karma users will dilute and overwhelm the empeg users.
While there is nothing wrong with being a Karma person, remember that the vast majority of Karma owners ("Karmelians"?) will have an agenda that is much different from that of the empeg crowd.
This bbs now stands as a shining beacon illuminating what internet discourse could be but almost never is. Please do not put it at risk.
tanstaafl.
_________________________
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch"
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#173269 - 01/08/2003 21:43
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tanstaafl.]
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enthusiast
Registered: 08/03/2001
Posts: 202
Loc: Denver, CO
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I'm kinda mixed on the entire issue.
While I do not post here much, I do keep an open dialogue with Tom, since we both live in Colorado, and talk to eachother often. I do however enjoy all of the posts that are on here, and I try to read as much as possible on a daily basis.
Though, I do think that this board does have a high posting volume already, I think the influx of Karma posts will be insanely high, and it will be hard keeping up with things that I want to keep up with. I did like the suggestion of having the Karma boards only visable once you are logged in, which should keep out most of the crap that a lot of the people here do not want.
I personally plan to have my empeg in every car I own up until it breaks (which will be a VERY sad day), or uhh... it breaks.
I love to people that are here and I've never seen bad or even moderately heated discussions going on here. People are very educated, and just nice to read posts from.
I wish I was here more at times, because I want to post on some subjects while they are already 40 deep, and changed topics, so I always just keep my thoughts, to not bring up old news :P
So I would have to say, if there is a Karma BBS (I sure as heck want to get a Karma!), I would think that it being a already members only forum would be best for everyone.
_________________________
- Damien
- Mk2a 24G Blue SN: 120001043
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#173270 - 01/08/2003 22:08
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: xanatos]
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old hand
Registered: 28/12/2001
Posts: 868
Loc: Los Angeles
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Hey, the address is empeg.comms.net....note the empeg part. We wouldn't want to confuse the poor Karma people would we?
All kidding aside, you can turn this around too; it wouldn't be fair to them either, they would always be second class citizens here. Let's face it, if we started a public Karma board here, we would monopolize the Karma talk across the net. We would have a serious head start in knowledgable people with them and we have some of the creators of the software posting here. So that would make us the de facto place to go. It is going to be hard for them to forge a community of their own with the Empeg community ever-present. Hell, it is going to be hard enough if they all go someplace else and the 50 people who are going to be getting Karmas from this board (and I am going to be one) descend on them en masse. Let them have their own home where they don't have to fight us to be heard.
_________________________
Ninti - MK IIa 60GB Smoke, 30GB, 10GB
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#173271 - 02/08/2003 03:14
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 17/01/2002
Posts: 3995
Loc: Manchester UK
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Thanks guys, this is only forum I frequent and I have to say I really do feel at home here.
On the subject of the Karma, I think a General forum for us and a dedicated site for everyone else.
_________________________
Cheers,
Andy M
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#173272 - 02/08/2003 03:44
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: tonyc]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 21/05/1999
Posts: 5335
Loc: Cambridge UK
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I don't know why there's any argument - this is the empeg car BBS. Hopefully someone will start a Rio Karma BBS, and possibly it might even be Rio (as we are keen to develop a user community).
Let's keep this one on topic! (Apart from "Off Topic", for which Karma would not be off topic enough!)
Rob
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#173273 - 02/08/2003 07:17
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 18/01/2000
Posts: 5680
Loc: London, UK
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possibly it might even be Rio
Well, make sure that they cough up the cash for a copy of the BBS software used here, then. The software used on the RioWorld BBS is utter papp in comparison.
_________________________
-- roger
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#173274 - 02/08/2003 08:43
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: Roger]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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I've used (and currently do use) much worse. At least it keeps track of what you've read.
_________________________
Bitt Faulk
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#173275 - 02/08/2003 09:35
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: rob]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 27/06/1999
Posts: 7058
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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don't know why there's any argument There isn't. I was just making a suggestion. I mentioned some potential drawbacks in my original post, and the discussion here has raised some other possibilities. Clearly the overwhelming majority of the BBS doesn't want to mess with a good thing, and as one of the longest-tenured (and longest-winded) members here, I respect and understand that position.
I didn't want this to become the official Karma support BBS, but I thought that it'd be nice to keep the Karma threads that will inevitably pop up here in their own separate forums. But the positives seem to be outweighed by tthe potential negatives, so let's leave it alone. I respectfully withdraw my motion.
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#173276 - 02/08/2003 10:19
Re: Rio Karma Forums?
[Re: robricc]
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enthusiast
Registered: 20/11/2000
Posts: 279
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Wouldn't the best way to stop the harvesters from picking up on threads be the use of a ROBOTS.TXT file? Picked that up from /. and it covers one aspect of getting "picked up" by the bots.
As for a separate Karma forum, I'd be leaning strongly to support the idea of a alternate host site. I too much enjoy the pure refreshment of this forum too much to risk contamination. We certainly don't want to burden our gracious service providers further
Cheers,
- Tim
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